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Connemara vs Limerick

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  • 16-04-2015 2:47pm
    #1
    Colostomy Bag
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭


    Just wondering if anyone who has done both the Connemara Marathon and the Limerick marathon (or Great Limerick Run as it seems to be called) could advise on how they compare? I did my third CM in a row last Sunday and want to do another (flatter) Marathon in the next few weeks to get down to 4hr. I completed Connemara in 4h20 - would it be realistic to get to 4hr in Limerick (personally I don't think so). With regard to the 3 week gap, is this too short for recovery - which leads up to my next question - no real need to do any long runs in between? I'm planning on a 16k Ticknock hillrun this Sat and the Samsung Night run next weekend with a bit of club training in between - have done zero since Sunday.

    Footnote - CM was amazing - apart from the T-shirt fiasco where lots of people (including me) didn't get their t-shirts due to a balls-up in the ordering by Elverys. I was offered a medium Ultra T-shirt as no L or XL mens of any of the 3 distances were left. CM have said they intend to get the right t-shirts for all affected - but I'll believe that when I see it.


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    #2
    TFBubendorfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,340 ✭✭✭TFBubendorfer


    Colostomy Bag wrote: »
    Just wondering if anyone who has done both the Connemara Marathon and the Limerick marathon (or Great Limerick Run as it seems to be called) could advise on how they compare? I did my third CM in a row last Sunday and want to do another (flatter) Marathon in the next few weeks to get down to 4hr. I completed Connemara in 4h20 - would it be realistic to get to 4hr in Limerick (personally I don't think so). With regard to the 3 week gap, is this too short for recovery - which leads up to my next question - no real need to do any long runs in between? I'm planning on a 16k Ticknock hillrun this Sat and the Samsung Night run next weekend with a bit of club training in between - have done zero since Sunday.


    Limerick is a lot flatter and therefore faster, but not by 20 minutes.

    3 weeks isn't anywhere near enough time to actually recover from a marathon. If you ran Connemara at your best effort, I'd strongly recommend giving Limerick a miss. You are right in one point, you certainly would not need a long run in the mean time - in fact they would almost certainly be counter-productive at this stage.

    If you want to break 4 hours I'd suggest doing another serious attempt in Dublin.


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    #3
    Colostomy Bag
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭Colostomy Bag


    TFBubendorfer wrote: »
    Limerick is a lot flatter and therefore faster, but not by 20 minutes.

    3 weeks isn't anywhere near enough time to actually recover from a marathon. If you ran Connemara at your best effort, I'd strongly recommend giving Limerick a miss. You are right in one point, you certainly would not need a long run in the mean time - in fact they would almost certainly be counter-productive at this stage.

    If you want to break 4 hours I'd suggest doing another serious attempt in Dublin.

    OK, maybe 4hrs is a bridge too far, but is 3 weeks really too close for another marathon? How long do you reckon the recovery should be without 'losing match fitness' so to speak - i.e. not leaving it too long so I have to start all over with the dreaded long training runs.


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    #4
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Colostomy Bag wrote: »
    OK, maybe 4hrs is a bridge too far, but is 3 weeks really too close for another marathon? How long do you reckon the recovery should be without 'losing match fitness' so to speak - i.e. not leaving it too long so I have to start all over with the dreaded long training runs.


    Top Runners will do 2/3 marathons a year and your wanting to do 2 very close together and get maximum benefit out of your performance? Take the advice given above and if you dread the long runs so much, maybe the marathon is not for you.


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    #5
    TFBubendorfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,340 ✭✭✭TFBubendorfer


    Colostomy Bag wrote: »
    OK, maybe 4hrs is a bridge too far, but is 3 weeks really too close for another marathon? How long do you reckon the recovery should be without 'losing match fitness' so to speak - i.e. not leaving it too long so I have to start all over with the dreaded long training runs.

    Quite a few years ago I tried racing two marathons 6 weeks and 2 days apart (12 Sep / 26 Oct 2009). I lasted until mile 15 of the second marathon and then slammed into the wall. At that time I had run 11 marathons and 2 ultras, so was reasonably experienced at this.

    You have 3 marathons and are planning on racing on half of that already inadequate break. Go ahead by all means if you want, but I'd advice against it (again).


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    #6
    Colostomy Bag
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭Colostomy Bag


    TFBubendorfer wrote: »
    Quite a few years ago I tried racing two marathons 6 weeks and 2 days apart (12 Sep / 26 Oct 2009). I lasted until mile 15 of the second marathon and then slammed into the wall. At that time I had run 11 marathons and 2 ultras, so was reasonably experienced at this.

    You have 3 marathons and are planning on racing on half of that already inadequate break. Go ahead by all means if you want, but I'd advice against it (again).

    I've done 7 - Mourne Way 2012, DCM 2012,13,14 & CM 2013,14,15, but I get your drift, too much too soon and all of mine have been approx 6 months apart. I still plan on doing 2 more this year - so may look for one over the summer instead.


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    #7
    Colostomy Bag
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭Colostomy Bag


    Had to reply to this old thread I started as yesterday I lined up at the Dublin marathon start line 14 days after doing Amsterdam in the eye-watering (for me) time of 4:00:06 - the original plan was to train for Amsterdam and try for sub 4hr and then just probably jog around Dublin in perhaps 4:15/20 all going well. To be honest, I was a little deflated after just missing out on the Holy grail of getting sub 4hr in Dam and was resigned to treating Dublin as an exercise in enjoyment rather than a PB attempt after all the available info said not to expect any miracles.
    Well, yesterday I ran Dublin in 3:58:52 (with an injured calf muscle) - and I remembered the comments on this thread about how much recovery is required after a marathon. I was not expecting to be able to do better than Amsterdam and it seems to have defied a lot of my club-mates expectations too (a lot of them very experienced marathon runners).
    I've done 4 marathons this year now (Connemara, Leiden, Amsterdam & Dublin), and a total of 12.
    Nobody will probably read this but I thought I should respond anyway!!
    I ran 1x3km in the intervening 2 weeks and pulled my calf muscle on that run.
    Getting 2 marathon PBs in 2 weeks is a pretty amazing feeling!


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    #8
    TFBubendorfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,340 ✭✭✭TFBubendorfer


    I have no recollection of posting on this thread before but ... congratulations!


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    #9
    Enduro
    Registered Users Posts: 3,617 ✭✭✭Enduro


    Colostomy Bag wrote: »
    Had to reply to this old thread I started as yesterday I lined up at the Dublin marathon start line 14 days after doing Amsterdam in the eye-watering (for me) time of 4:00:06 - the original plan was to train for Amsterdam and try for sub 4hr and then just probably jog around Dublin in perhaps 4:15/20 all going well. To be honest, I was a little deflated after just missing out on the Holy grail of getting sub 4hr in Dam and was resigned to treating Dublin as an exercise in enjoyment rather than a PB attempt after all the available info said not to expect any miracles.
    Well, yesterday I ran Dublin in 3:58:52 (with an injured calf muscle) - and I remembered the comments on this thread about how much recovery is required after a marathon. I was not expecting to be able to do better than Amsterdam and it seems to have defied a lot of my club-mates expectations too (a lot of them very experienced marathon runners).
    I've done 4 marathons this year now (Connemara, Leiden, Amsterdam & Dublin), and a total of 12.
    Nobody will probably read this but I thought I should respond anyway!!
    I ran 1x3km in the intervening 2 weeks and pulled my calf muscle on that run.
    Getting 2 marathon PBs in 2 weeks is a pretty amazing feeling!

    Good for you and well done indeed!

    The first point I often make to people looking for key advice about running is to question everything. There's plenty of people around to tell you what can't be done, until you go out and do it! Well done on having the courage to chart your own course and ignore the naysayers.


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    #10
    jonseyblub
    Registered Users Posts: 360 ✭✭jonseyblub


    Enduro wrote: »
    Good for you and well done indeed!

    The first point I often make to people looking for key advice about running is to question everything. There's plenty of people around to tell you what can't be done, until you go out and do it! Well done on having the courage to chart your own course and ignore the naysayers.

    In fairness the OP came here for advice and Im sure the advice was given in good faith. I'm still sure most of their advice was based on genuine concern for the OP and would be relevant for most runners.


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    #11
    Enduro
    Registered Users Posts: 3,617 ✭✭✭Enduro


    jonseyblub wrote: »
    In fairness the OP came here for advice and Im sure the advice was given in good faith. I'm still sure most of their advice was based on genuine concern for the OP and would be relevant for most runners.

    I absolutely agree that it was genuine and in good faith. I don't think anyone goes around deliberately giving bad advice.

    But my observations and experience has taught me that a lot of advice that is handed out is simply received wisdom handed on without question or investigation. Quite often this will not be evidence based, or just something that is done because it always the way things have been always been done. Hence my own primary advice to question everything, no matter how obvious it may seem, and no matter how many people follow the advice.

    It should be noted as well that most advice handed out is generic. In reality we're all individuals and different people will have different abilities, and react in different ways to stimulii and stresses etc. Generic advice could be correct for 95% of people, but be the wrong advice for the particular individual in question (No matter how well intentioned).

    Hence my applause for breaking free of the pack and going for it. He effectively had a free shot and took full advantage.


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    #12
    jonseyblub
    Registered Users Posts: 360 ✭✭jonseyblub


    Enduro wrote: »
    I absolutely agree that it was genuine and in good faith. I don't think anyone goes around deliberately giving bad advice.

    But my observations and experience has taught me that a lot of advice that is handed out is simply received wisdom handed on without question or investigation. Quite often this will not be evidence based, or just something that is done because it always the way things have been always been done. Hence my own primary advice to question everything, no matter how obvious it may seem, and no matter how many people follow the advice.

    It should be noted as well that most advice handed out is generic. In reality we're all individuals and different people will have different abilities, and react in different ways to stimulii and stresses etc. Generic advice could be correct for 95% of people, but be the wrong advice for the particular individual in question (No matter how well intentioned).

    Hence my applause for breaking free of the pack and going for it. He effectively had a free shot and took full advantage.

    Fair enough.....It was your use of the word "naysayers" that prompted me to respond.


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    #13
    Spirogyra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭Spirogyra


    A lot more people are running multiple marathons in quick succession now. I'm not surprised.


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    #14
    TFBubendorfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,340 ✭✭✭TFBubendorfer


    jonseyblub wrote: »
    In fairness the OP came here for advice and Im sure the advice was given in good faith. I'm still sure most of their advice was based on genuine concern for the OP and would be relevant for most runners.

    I assure you, it was all given in good faith. And what's more, even now I'd give the same advice again: running two marathons in quick succession is unlikely to yield a good result in the second marathon. I've seen it attempted numerous times, including by myself, and it almost never ends well.

    This does, however, drive home the fact that we're all different with highly individual responses. Even if something is true for 9 out of 10 runners, there are still the ones who respond very differently.

    Again, congratulations to the OP. Very well done indeed!


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    #15
    Jmcmen
    Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Jmcmen


    Done it twice Previously, Ran Amsterdam on little training in '12 and ran an agonizing 3:28. The following 8 Days later I ran Dublin with a then PB of 3:13

    Then in '14 I ran 2.57 (a then PB) in Dublin and 6 days later ran 3.01 in NYC. Last 4miles I hurt bad. Its not a race with the terrain and logistics nor the day that it was for a PB time and was delighted with the time.

    Dont think I will be doing it again. Body it taking alot longer to recover


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    #16
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    I suppose if you think about it accomplished ultra runners will regularly run in excess of a marathon in training with short periods between. So the effort is probably key, if pushing yourself to the limit in one race you are unlikely to be able to do that successfully in another shortly after.

    But in general I think the advice given above was good. Because the OP managed to do it doesn't necessarily mean the advice wasn't good! I'd say if ten such threads were posted we'd prob have a few injuries and a lot of total blow ups. Reminds me of the skiier skiing off piste with a high avalanche risk, you might get away with it 9 times, which re-inforces your view that you're safe, but when it slides on the 10th time its game over.

    On the other hand there's a danger of getting too worried about something you've heard. I did my first DCM this year and was terrified at having done my last LSR at marathon pace and a half marathon at marathon pace the weekend before the race. Thought that was the end of my hopes. Ended up hitting the wall pretty bad but I think it was general unpreparedness rather than those specific runs.


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    #17
    CR 7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,691 ✭✭✭CR 7


    To add another anecdote, I finished my first road marathon at the end of August in 3:08, then did DCM (9 weeks apart) in 3:04. The 3:08 was on a much more difficult course and was probably equivalent to 2:55ish on a course like Dublin, but 9 weeks wasn't enough for me to recover and be in the same shape on the start line. If I was doing something like it again, I'd have the first race as my goal race to go for a good time in, and then aim for a more comfortable pace for the second one and just enjoy the day. Instead, I set out at 3:00 pace for Dublin and suffered through a lot of it before figuring out around mile 18 that the pace wasn't sustainable.


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