Buses denying early access to passengers.

The_Wrecker · 06-07-2013 10:31pm

I tend to load às soon as possible, upto 10 mins early if a dire night. If my silent phone has recieved and messages/calls on the last journey i will sort this first.
There is a few minutes toilet break built into every trip too.

Back to the very very first post ~ maybe he was waiting for the 47 to go through?

AlekSmart · 07-07-2013 1:24am

The_Wrecker wrote: »

I tend to load às soon as possible, upto 10 mins early if a dire night. If my silent phone has recieved and messages/calls on the last journey i will sort this first.
There is a few minutes toilet break built into every trip too.

Back to the very very first post ~ maybe he was waiting for the 47 to go through?

I think,at this stage,the OP has made enough subsequent clarifications,allowing posters make their own minds up as to motivation and/or expected responses.

As with life itself,stuff sometimes happens in ways which we don't like or accept.

It's always open to us to complain,or question these things,whether we are interested in listening to any explanations,excuses or justifications is a different issue altogether.

Progress is one way that tends to solve stuff such as this,as in RTPI...I notice a significant drop in the numbers of hangers-around at Termini since RTPI went live.

This is simply down to people now being aware that they can have an extra Cuppa,Ciggie,Quick Cuddle or whatever whilst keeping a wary eye on their Android Screen.

On my own route,whereas before,I would regularly have a collection of folks pacing the footpath,with much exaggerated wrist flicking and scanning of watches for up to 10 minutes before my 2 minute window,now the same people simply stroll along at 90 seconds and counting before boarding and Leapcarding their way in....That ease of mind MUST reduce Bus related Stress,BP and Cohlesterol in so many people

In addition,as AVL operation settles down,more and more drivers are able to use it's features to "Use up their time on the road" rather than set themselves up as Coconuts in a Funfair Shy at some remote terminus.

There are some who see the Driver as being in someway an integral part of the Bus itself,as in connected by an electro-mechanical umbilical cord to the vehicles mainframe,often these people are genuinely taken-aback when some Drivers demonstrate the ability to exist independently of their coachbuilt cocoon.

Murphaph alluded to it here...

Some bus stops in Berlin have a sign to ask members of the public not to disturb drivers on a break. Seems fair enough to me.

That was demonstrated to me by a Driver on the BVG's route 100 (I Think) of an evening at one of it's terminal points,when the Driver asked us (In faultless English) to step outside and wait whilst he perfomed "Other Duties" before turning his bus around and picking us up on the opposite Island.

Myself,my companion and a rather grumpy old German lady dutifully complied until he had finished his "Other Duties" (Including making and smoking what appeared to be a VERY fragrant roll--up).

I should add that it was pouring rain,in that oddly savage manner that allows those familiar with it to smile when listening to talk about "heavy rain" here at home.

AlekSmart · 07-07-2013 1:34am

markpb wrote: »

WTF

I was speaking recently to a Trainer with one of the London Bus Operating companies,who told of a red-face-all-round incident,whilst training Busdrivers on the Daily First-Use Bus Check procedures.

One of the final drills was to give the trainee/s a bus with a couple of inbuilt faults and see if their Walk Around Check detected them....

One Trainer had the bright idea to get a cardboard box,some bits of wire and duct-tape it all together,with the word BOMB ! writ large on the outside,then stash it away under a seat.

Well......you can probably guess the outcome....Having been successfully detected by all of the participants,the Trainer was called away for a few minutes,whereupon the Bus being used for the Training was spotted by the Garage Foreman as being idle and promptly marked straight back out into service.

It did'nt take long before an eagle eyed member of the public spotted it and the appropriate shytt hytt the phan.....:eek:

WTF :eek:...You better FFFFFF'n Believe It :eek: !

SparkySpitfire · 07-07-2013 1:49am

Can I just point out to all the people saying that the driver can't leave the cab unattended over and over again...

I'm often at the terminus of the 84 and the bus will often arrive 5/10 mins early. When that happens, a lot of the time, the driver will park the bus, nip into the shop, stretch their legs THEN get back into the bus and park it at the first stop.

Most of them then will open the doors, let whoever's waiting on while they go on their phones/read the paper/listen to the radio for the remaining minutes.

I always feel a sense of gratitude to these drivers. However some just don't want to let people on, whatever their reason. I don't think they MUST do it, but a lot of the time it's common courtesy to do what the majority of the 84 drivers do.

Some do, some don't. Some have time, some are running on a tight schedule. Some are on power trips, some are tired, some are more relaxed. Depends on the driver on the day. It's not really something you can give out about even if the driver in the OP seemed pretty inconsiderate.

Losty Dublin · 07-07-2013 5:55pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

...One Trainer had the bright idea to get a cardboard box,some bits of wire and duct-tape it all together,with the word BOMB ! writ large on the outside,then stash it away under a seat.

Well......you can probably guess the outcome....Having been successfully detected by all of the participants,the Trainer was called away for a few minutes,whereupon the Bus being used for the Training was spotted by the Garage Foreman as being idle and promptly marked straight back out into service.

It did'nt take long before an eagle eyed member of the public spotted it and the appropriate shytt hytt the phan.....:eek:

WTF :eek:...You better FFFFFF'n Believe It :eek: !

What a load of (Sandra) Bullocks :pac:

miller50841 · 07-07-2013 9:34pm

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Can I just point out to all the people saying that the driver can't leave the cab unattended over and over again...

I'm often at the terminus of the 84 and the bus will often arrive 5/10 mins early. When that happens, a lot of the time, the driver will park the bus, nip into the shop, stretch their legs THEN get back into the bus and park it at the first stop.

Most of them then will open the doors, let whoever's waiting on while they go on their phones/read the paper/listen to the radio for the remaining minutes.

I always feel a sense of gratitude to these drivers. However some just don't want to let people on, whatever their reason. I don't think they MUST do it, but a lot of the time it's common courtesy to do what the majority of the 84 drivers do.

Some do, some don't. Some have time, some are running on a tight schedule. Some are on power trips, some are tired, some are more relaxed. Depends on the driver on the day. It's not really something you can give out about even if the driver in the OP seemed pretty inconsiderate.

Reason is it's at the station which some buses are left unattended as there is to be a inspector there to watch over.

Sure I've been attacked walking down the road and happened a few times while out in town this stuff does happen and it's so common it's not news anymore unless you are killed.

I wish people would stop complaining all the time and see the better sides to things. I also don't understand why there are so many aggressive people going around.

Driver's don't go out of their way to cause distress to passengers but look at there view of things where they are the 1st person you see so they are the 1st that get all the sh1t. They have a very stressful job so maybe for once take a step back take a deep breath treat them with respect and maybe they will be more sympathetic and help out as best they can or give you some info on any problems you may have...

SparkySpitfire · 08-07-2013 12:59am

miller50841 wrote: »

Reason is it's at the station which some buses are left unattended as there is to be a inspector there to watch over.

Sure I've been attacked walking down the road and happened a few times while out in town this stuff does happen and it's so common it's not news anymore unless you are killed.

I wish people would stop complaining all the time and see the better sides to things. I also don't understand why there are so many aggressive people going around.

Driver's don't go out of their way to cause distress to passengers but look at there view of things where they are the 1st person you see so they are the 1st that get all the sh1t. They have a very stressful job so maybe for once take a step back take a deep breath treat them with respect and maybe they will be more sympathetic and help out as best they can or give you some info on any problems you may have...

Why did you quote my post...

Mrs OBumble · 08-07-2013 1:19am

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Can I just point out to all the people saying that the driver can't leave the cab unattended over and over again....

Some say that the driver can't leave the cab unattended. Others say the driver can't leave the cab. I wonder which it really is. (A cab with a driver standing just outside it, still in the bus, stretching his legs and other body parts by walking on the spot is clearly not unattended.)

Addressing a few other posts:

If DB bus drivers really do check their vehicle for "stuff" before each trip, then I, a mere BÉ passenger, am jealous. Our drivers mostly certainly don't do this. I wonder, though, do DB drivers actually clean stuff that's rubbish-but-not-dangerous? Or do they just look for dangerous-or-valuable?

Don't get me started on the amount of fuel used and noise-pollution created by drivers of commercial vehicles who routinely leave them idling for 5-10 minutes. As world oil supplies slowly but surely dwindle.

I can understand drivers who have to pick up in some of Dublin or Limerick's more interesting areas wanting to minimise the amount of pax-contact. But on the other hand, if you treat your customers with respect, they are more likely to reciprocate. If you consistently show that you think they are scum, well that's probably what they'll be.

And I have a certain sympathy with the passengers in the OP's post. Last winter, one of BE's finest left me standing in the rain/wind for about 7 minutes while he studiously read his paper - and every minute or so glanced up and looked right at me. Just before departure time, he opened the door and had the gall to say "It was a good thing you moved, I wouldn't have seen you there otherwise". Suffice to say I hadn't moved. I'm a 40-something office worker, who he's seen lots of times before and would have nothing to fear from. Having seen this lad's temper in action before, I decided not to share my thoughts about whether his eyesight is good enough to be driving. But I'm quietly trusting that karma is a bitch.

bmaxi · 08-07-2013 11:32am

Passed down Park Avenue in both directions last night and on both occasions there was a bus at the terminus, each time there were passengers on the bus and the doors were open. On the first occasion the driver was standing outside the bus and on the second he was sitting in his cab reading, everything was amicable and this leads me to conclude that it was purely an attitude problem on the part of the original driver. This is a bit sad really, when somebody has such a complex that they feel justified in imposing hardship on innocents. Time for a career move I think, before the blow out.

KD345 · 08-07-2013 12:43pm

bmaxi wrote: »

Passed down Park Avenue in both directions last night and on both occasions there was a bus at the terminus, each time there were passengers on the bus and the doors were open. On the first occasion the driver was standing outside the bus and on the second he was sitting in his cab reading, everything was amicable and this leads me to conclude that it was purely an attitude problem on the part of the original driver. This is a bit sad really, when somebody has such a complex that they feel justified in imposing hardship on innocents. Time for a career move I think, before the blow out.

Out of interest, have you contacted Dublin Bus to ask what the official company rule is?

It seems very unfair to label a driver as having a 'complex' and an 'attitude problem' when they might just be doing their jobs. Obviously those passenger were happy to board the bus early, and perhaps that driver was willing to break the rules (if such rules exist).

I arrived early to my supermarket recently one weekend, it opens at 11, but I was there a bit early. Now, I'm assuming their policy is to open the doors at 11, even though the lights were on and I could see the staff inside. Not for one second did I think those staff had a complex or an attitude. They're just doing their job.

If you're really concerned about the appropriate behaviour of drivers at a bus terminus I'm sure a quick call to Dublin Bus would help clarify your issues.

bmaxi · 08-07-2013 1:00pm

KD345 wrote: »

Out of interest, have you contacted Dublin Bus to ask what the official company rule is?

It seems very unfair to label a driver as having a 'complex' and an 'attitude problem' when they might just be doing their jobs. Obviously those passenger were happy to board the bus early, and perhaps that driver was willing to break the rules (if such rules exist).

I arrived early to my supermarket recently one weekend, it opens at 11, but I was there a bit early. Now, I'm assuming their policy is to open the doors at 11, even though the lights were on and I could see the staff inside. Not for one second did I think those staff had a complex or an attitude. They're just doing their job.

If you're really concerned about the appropriate behaviour of drivers at a bus terminus I'm sure a quick call to Dublin Bus would help clarify your issues.

No, I haven't contacted Dublin Bus directly, I assumed if Dublin Bus have an official position on the issue, the first people they would communicate that to would be those staff to whom it applied. It's not a case of branding anybody, it's a conclusion I've drawn and everybody else is entitled to draw their own conclusion based on the facts as presented. If, for instance, you feel it is perfectly acceptable behaviour then feel free to say so.

KD345 · 08-07-2013 1:29pm

bmaxi wrote: »

No, I haven't contacted Dublin Bus directly, I assumed if Dublin Bus have an official position on the issue, the first people they would communicate that to would be those staff to whom it applied. It's not a case of branding anybody, it's a conclusion I've drawn and everybody else is entitled to draw their own conclusion based on the facts as presented. If, for instance, you feel it is perfectly acceptable behaviour then feel free to say so.

Personally, I think it would be great if bus drivers let passengers on early at the terminus. As someone who uses the bus a lot, I know how awful it can be to be standing on a cold road with an empty bus just feet away. However, I know of the awful attacks which have happened to drivers in recent years and why they need to be behind protective screens in their cab. I also appreciate how long some bus routes are; for example, at times it takes the 16 or 27 over two hours to get from end to end. I believe, and again this is just my personal opinion, that it's not unreasonable for a driver to want a few minutes to themselves to stretch their legs and leave their cab before starting back on the same journey.

The issue I have with this thread is that we don't actually have any official facts. You've observed three different scenarios at a particular termius and made a conclusion that the driver in your opening post had an 'attitude problem'. There is every possibility that he was just doing his job correctly. Perhaps he was following the proper instructions as communicated to him by his employer.

If drivers are supposed to allow passenger board early, then I could understand your conclusions and remarks on their bahaviour. The problem is we don't know. I'd rather reserve the name calling and put downs until I was sure of my facts. You could find the correct actions by calling Dublin Bus.

bmaxi · 08-07-2013 4:47pm

KD345 wrote: »

Personally, I think it would be great if bus drivers let passengers on early at the terminus. As someone who uses the bus a lot, I know how awful it can be to be standing on a cold road with an empty bus just feet away. However, I know of the awful attacks which have happened to drivers in recent years and why they need to be behind protective screens in their cab. I also appreciate how long some bus routes are; for example, at times it takes the 16 or 27 over two hours to get from end to end. I believe, and again this is just my personal opinion, that it's not unreasonable for a driver to want a few minutes to themselves to stretch their legs and leave their cab before starting back on the same journey.

The issue I have with this thread is that we don't actually have any official facts. You've observed three different scenarios at a particular termius and made a conclusion that the driver in your opening post had an 'attitude problem'. There is every possibility that he was just doing his job correctly. Perhaps he was following the proper instructions as communicated to him by his employer.

If drivers are supposed to allow passenger board early, then I could understand your conclusions and remarks on their bahaviour. The problem is we don't know. I'd rather reserve the name calling and put downs until I was sure of my facts. You could find the correct actions by calling Dublin Bus.

You're right, we don't have the facts, the original reason for starting the thread, even though we have had several DB drivers contributing. This leaves one to conclude that there is no hard and fast rule and whether or not people board is in the gift of the individual driver. If there were a rule then surely somebody would be able to quote it and equally, the travelling public really should be made aware of it.
I didn't observe three different scenarios, what I observed was the same scenario but with different players, do we assume those different players were operating under different instructions?
I'm not in the business of demeaning bus drivers, been there, done that, have the arthritis but the different approaches on the occasions I spoke of suggest to me that the original driver has a less than accommodating attitude toward his customers.

The_Wrecker · 08-07-2013 9:30pm

I myself will let the passengers on well ahead of departure. Once the journey has commenced, anti social/lost property ~ i wont leave the cab till the terminus has been reached. Obviously unless passenger injury etc then compassion is in you favour. Or you risk losing assault pay.

Cookie_Monster · 10-07-2013 9:18am

KD345 wrote: »

It has been explained that drivers can not leave their cab when the bus is in service and boarded passengers.

Drivers HAVE to be able to leave the cab, what if a mirror or wiper needs adjusting, it's dangerous not to. I've seen it many times where at a stop or lights a driver will take the opportunity to adjust a mirror.

The_Wrecker · 10-07-2013 10:29pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Drivers HAVE to be able to leave the cab, what if a mirror or wiper needs adjusting, it's dangerous not to. I've seen it many times where at a stop or lights a driver will take the opportunity to adjust a mirror.

That would be a good enough reason to leave the cab. However if you had and were well aware of several loons onboard, your claim for assault pay could be frowned upon.

bmaxi · 10-07-2013 11:12pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Drivers HAVE to be able to leave the cab, what if a mirror or wiper needs adjusting, it's dangerous not to. I've seen it many times where at a stop or lights a driver will take the opportunity to adjust a mirror.

That's what conductors were for.

Gael23 · 14-07-2013 10:24am

I travel regularly to Limerick by bus and one day there was a severely incapacitated old lady denied early boarding. She travels on this service as often as I do but she was always let on the bus to sit down any time before this. It's obvious that a disabled person will have a Pass so I see no sense to it.

AlekSmart · 14-07-2013 12:29pm

ryanf1 wrote: »

I travel regularly to Limerick by bus and one day there was a severely incapacitated old lady denied early boarding. She travels on this service as often as I do but she was always let on the bus to sit down any time before this. It's obvious that a disabled person will have a Pass so I see no sense to it.

When this event occurred ryanf1,were you privy to the "denial",as in,were you close enough to hear any conversation regarding this "denial" ?

Did you seek an explanation from the Driver or other staff ?

If,for example,this lady was regularly facilitated,were you aware of any changes on this ONE occasion where this did'nt occur ?

Is it your suggestion that the company concerned has deliberately withdrawn this facility from her ?

The issue of a Pass is not relevant to the pre-boarding,and It's also worth pointing out that the some persons appearing to be "Disabled" do NOT have DSP Passes and vice-versa.....A Busdriver would make such assumptions at his/her peril.

jasonbourne.cs · 15-07-2013 11:01am

lxflyer wrote: »

No it isn't possible - once passengers are on board a bus, Dublin Bus rules state that the driver is not allowed to leave his cab unattended, which would preclude him from stretching his legs or walking up/down the bus.

Bray station must be an exception

any of the 84's that i've been on recently coming from Blackrock heading southbound the driver always leaves people on the bus unattended usually for a good five minutes ...

Alun · 15-07-2013 11:04am

jasonbourne.cs wrote: »

Bray station must be an exception any of the 84's that i've been on recently coming from Blackrock heading southbound the driver always leaves people on the bus unattended usually for a good five minutes ...

Used to happen a good deal when the 145 used to make driver change stops there too.

Gael23 · 15-07-2013 6:26pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

When this event occurred ryanf1,were you privy to the "denial",as in,were you close enough to hear any conversation regarding this "denial" ?

Did you seek an explanation from the Driver or other staff ?

If,for example,this lady was regularly facilitated,were you aware of any changes on this ONE occasion where this did'nt occur ?

Is it your suggestion that the company concerned has deliberately withdrawn this facility from her ?

The issue of a Pass is not relevant to the pre-boarding,and It's also worth pointing out that the some persons appearing to be "Disabled" do NOT have DSP Passes and vice-versa.....A Busdriver would make such assumptions at his/her peril.

No I wasn't near enough to hear the conversation but as the bus pulled into the station about 10 minutes or so before departure, the lady moved towards the door to get on the bus as she did many times previously and the driver obviously told her to wait.
The issue of a pass is not that relevant but at the time I was wondering was it a step to avoid fare evaders, I don't know really.
I'm not suggesting that the driver or the company were wrong but this was an elderly and quite frail lady so in the circumstances I would have thought it would have been no problem.

AlekSmart · 15-07-2013 8:33pm

ryanf1 wrote: »

No I wasn't near enough to hear the conversation but as the bus pulled into the station about 10 minutes or so before departure, the lady moved towards the door to get on the bus as she did many times previously and the driver obviously told her to wait.
The issue of a pass is not that relevant but at the time I was wondering was it a step to avoid fare evaders, I don't know really.
I'm not suggesting that the driver or the company were wrong but this was an elderly and quite frail lady so in the circumstances I would have thought it would have been no problem.

I would doubt that whatever you witnessed had anything to do with Fare Evasion.
The only absolute statement which can be made is "I (We) Don't know really".
Perhaps there is a quite rational explanation.known only to the Driver ?

It would be stretching it a bit to suggest the Driver concerned got out of bed that morning with the avowed intent of keeping that Woman off the Bus,but I'm sure it will suit somebody's agenda to speculate thus ?

SparkySpitfire · 16-07-2013 12:29pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

I would doubt that whatever you witnessed had anything to do with Fare Evasion.
The only absolute statement which can be made is "I (We) Don't know really".
Perhaps there is a quite rational explanation.known only to the Driver ?

It would be stretching it a bit to suggest the Driver concerned got out of bed that morning with the avowed intent of keeping that Woman off the Bus,but I'm sure it will suit somebody's agenda to speculate thus ?

Jeeeeeesus. Calm down! :eek:

I don't know if you're trying to come across really urgent and looking for a debate but that's how it reads.

The post you're originally replying to merely says "it doesn't make sense to me".

There are zero accusations let alone an accusatory tone. The poster was just making an observation of something he saw. He didn't say "fcking ass of a driver, ignorant pr!ck". He just said it didn't make sense. Which is quite true seeing as he didn't see the full thing unfold.

No one was having a witch hunt yet you seem all up in arms over it. :eek:

Apologies if this wasn't how you were trying to come across but it sure looked like it!

AlekSmart · 16-07-2013 3:30pm

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Jeeeeeesus. Calm down! :eek:

No one was having a witch hunt yet you seem all up in arms over it. :eek:

Apologies if this wasn't how you were trying to come across but it sure looked like it!

,No apologies required Sparky....Was Just gettin the witches in line,cos the hunters were seen outside the stockade.....;)

Buses denying early access to passengers.

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