Night Storage Heaters

gagalina wrote: »

hi there,

hope it's the right forum.

Just moved into a house with night storage heaters and have a question.

The heaters in the kitchen and living room (Dimplex XLN) only have settings for input and output (no numbers) and are set by two tiny dials in the fuse box.

In the fuse box, there is one dial for "Day" with settings from -4, -2, 0, +2, +4, constant and one dial for "Night" with settings for -4, -2, 0, +2, +4.

We've asked the landlady, but she is not really sure how to use them.

Can anybody help me out with figuring out what exactly these numbers mean?

Thanks a mil!!

Gagalina

AFAIK this is to start the storage heaters earlier or let them run later then the, 11pm-8am winter and 12am-9am summer, night rate times. You can also use it to reduce the time storage heaters are heating at night.

Citygirl1 wrote: »

I think the timer must be damaged, and I'll need to call ESB. Does anyone know what section or who to ask for?

First, check the manual.

I imagine you will need to talk to an electrician, not the ESB.

Thinking of getting one from Argos http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/4150200/Trail/searchtext%3EHALOGEN+HEATERS.htm

Is it worth getting

matsy1 wrote: »

Thanks DarasBB. There is something wrong with our sensor so we have to have that red booster switch on all day. :mad:

Expect a very high electricity bill in the post if you're using the booster all day.

What sensor?

Well, the thread has been idle for more than a year now, but as it seems many of us don't have a clear idea of how this Devireg 710-2 devices works, and I have found further manufacturer information, I consider worth giving the details to the forum in the hope they will be useful.

First things first, www.Google.com was kind enough to show me the URL to the official DeviReg 710-2 installation and operating instructions, which I have attached to this post. For those looking for a replacement part, go straight to the last page to get an address in Dublin 24 from where to start.

Next, the document clarifies a lot of things, at least theoretically. The first of them is the dials in the device for "day" and "night" (from -4 to +4) doesn't relate to "less heating hours" or "more heating hours", but indirectly. They are used to configure the comfort ambient temperatures for the day and for the night. So a -4 in the day dial would be "I'm ok during the day with a comfort temperature 4 ºC below the predefined one" (which the manual doesn't specify, but one can think it would be in the 20-22ºC range). Same for the "night" dial. According to this "room comfort temperature" AND the external temperature sensor the device seems to modulate the percentage of night tariff hours that it makes available to the storage heaters.

So, if the outdoor sensor meaures very low temperatures and the comfort temperature is set higher than usual, the DeviReg will enable the storage heaters circuit for the full period of night tariff. If outside temperatures are milder and the user configures a lower comfort temperature, the device may only enable power to the storage heaters during a couple of hours. It seems the system would take some trial and error before every part of the system (DeviReg, Input and Output on the storage heaters, etc.) is configured to adequate levels. Then, the external sensor should do its jobs adjusting the ouput to the changing outside temperature.

The other important thing to notice in the manual is the starting and ending times of the night electricity tariff seem to be sent over the power line from the power company, the DeviReg notices those signals, and automatically reconfigures itself if necessary (for example, when changing from "winter" to "summer"). So the DeviReg should know perfectly well when the night tariff begins and when it ends, and depending on the temperature configuration and external measured temperature it may decide to give power to the heaters way after the starting night period, and only up to some hours before the end of the night period.

Check the manual for the details and some suggestions on configuring and troubleshooting the device. The above is my (ignorant) interpretation on the literature, but I'm not really sure if it matches the reality I'm observing at my (rented) apartment. Because just after having the DeviReg fixed (a problem with the external sensor, it seems) I have kept and eye on it , and for example today and yesterday it switched to "night mode" just at 7 PM, and that is far from the official 11 PM when the nightsaver tariff seems to begin during winter time.

I'm not going to use the storage heating function much though, but will keep investigating just in case I need them, to check if the whole system is working according to specifications.

el Bastardo wrote: »

Loads of other boards postings on this - I even remember looking at them (after wasting money on big ESB bills a few winters ago). Hint: You might want to search harder . See here (Post #11 gives the basics, which is what you want).

I gave up on storage heaters eventually - Just too expensive (I just use convector heaters).

Going by that post #11 that you refer to would be incorrect advice. If you set all storage heater input to max. ie.6 , you're looking at approx €55+ per 2months per heater (based on a 1.8Kw). You need to set the input per heater according to your needs. I have my hall unit at Input 3, just to take the sting out of the air. 6 would be OTT.

It would be great if some Boardsie could put the Devireg drama to bed. I've read substantially and STILL can't be sure of the -4 to +4 settings, but the above post by @dardhal sounds the most plausible yet.

giggle84 wrote: »

I have been asking myself the same question.. how does the storage heater know when it's day and when it's night, and is there an internal clock that could be a bit off? Because my 2-bed apartment is warmer at 4am than 4pm (when it is generally baltic) and I just received an ESB bill for €424. I contacted the property manager and received a very patronising response outlining the premise on which storage heaters work. I have the input dial all the way up and turn the output all the way down at night and only turn it up in the evening, but barely get any heat out of them. A friend of mine is in a much bigger 2-bed duplex with storage heating, her apartment is always lovely and warm, and her last bill was €170.

Look if your apartment or home is ever frezzing and your using the heaters its down to heat loss, which is a major problem in poorly built apartments/houses.

When using night storage heaters the room will get quite warm during the night when they are charging, even with the output at 0 i find they will release heat slowly during the day, which is fine if the dwelling is insulated well enough to keep that heat in.

Alot of apartments arent well enough insulated and the night storage heaters are not much good in this situaiton. Realisiticaly if you dont own the apartment i would tell you to think of moving before next winter, the property ads in the new year must have a BER rating , so it should give you a good indication of a properties energy demands before you move in.

My husband is experimenting with storage heaters in our 3 bed bungalow for a while now.

We have always used oil for heating before.
And we use approx 1200L of oil a year for the last 5 years. Maybe 200L more in the two freezing winters we have had.

We have always only heated 2 bedrooms and the living room even with the oil.

We got 3 storage heaters, one for each of those rooms.

In the winter the ESB bill goes up by €80 a month averaged out over the winter and we havent even switched to the dual meter. We're going to do that after christmas though. We do charge up the heaters only at night though, as if we were on the night meter. Input is usually on 3 - 4 and output at 3.

We dont have gas.

The living room and the 2 bedrooms are toasty all day and most of the night.
Only starts to cool down a little bit around bed time.
The kitchen is actually warm enough just from the cooking and the heat around the house from the storage heaters anyway, though still cooler than the living and bedrooms.

When on oil we would have the heat come on for 1 hour in the morning and 5 hours in the evening, with extra when we needed it. It got cold any other time.

With the storage its warm all the time.

For the whole 6 months we need the heating we use €480 more electricity (80 a month) than if we were using oil heating.
Oil heating at 1200 L would cost us €1100 for the same time.

When we go on to the night time tariff we should cut that by €200 over the 6 months.

So at the moment
It would be €1100 pa for oil heating.
It is €480 for storage heating.
It should be about €280 for storage heating when we go on the night meter.

4 years ago 1200L of oil was €540

I never thought I would say this but electricity is the cheapest way to heat our home.
And no annual cost of servicing of the oil burner either.

Just wondering if anyone knows or whether it is indeed possible to establish whether there is a big difference in electricity use between havin a storage heater set to INPUT1 and INPUT3 at night-will my usage be like 3 times higher on INPUT3?

true, however had it at 1 for most of last month since the apt was unoccupied pretty much and still got quite a hefty bill, so the hope is when it's on 3 or 4 from now on it wont be 3or4 times higher bill, sure will see thx

awww, that got me worried now, I have to investigate so , cheers

MMAGirl wrote: »

It's not just one setting that determines your bill. It's a combination of both input and output.

That's not true at all. The output is just a flap, a physical flap that lets heat out after a ceramic brick has been heated up all night on cheaper electricity.

Its really not on for people to be saying things that aren't true. If you don't know what you're talking about, say nothing. Input costs you electricity, output gives you heat (depending on when you want it) and the convector heater is completely separate. If you are wrong, you're costing people money by giving bad advice.

How exactly do you think output affects your bill ??

MMAGirl wrote: »

Oh Jesus help us.
One of the most uninformed posts I've ever read.
Please follow your own advice - if you don't know what you are talking about say nothing.

I think you'll find that my last post was indeed fact, if you bother to inform yourself before putting both feet in your mouth.

Maybe you should report my post then? I have reported yours much earlier as I think you haven't a CLUE about storage heaters and are misleading innocent people and could end up costing them money.

So explain? How does changing the output cost more money? It doesn't and the fact is you have not an iota of how a storage heater works. The fact that you believe you do is very worrying. I've asked the Mods to have someone step in here who has discussed Storage heaters at length; as what you're offering, confidence and 100% clueless info, is detrimental to others trying to learn how to use a SIMPLE solution.

You never did explain how the Output dial can increase your bill??? Considering your cocky retort (clueless and confident go hand in hand), I await your response with bated breath.

Here is my evidence. Looking forward to your 'evidence' @MMAGirl.

http://www.adactushousing.co.uk/Information/62#chapterLink5

"Output Dial

This is the setting that controls the level of heat released into the room. Typically this should be set at number 1 during the day when not so much heat is needed, then turned up in the evening to release more heat if it is required. When the output control is set at 1 the storage heater will gradually release heat throughout the day. Turning the output dial up will release more heat. When leaving the home throughout the day always return the dial back to 1.

This will ensure that the heater will retain enough heat to be released through until the end of the evening. Try to ensure by the end of the evening the storage heater has completely run out of heat. When the heat runs out and the heater has no more heat to release, before going to bed return the output dial to 1. This means that the settings will be set to work correctly the following morning."

DO YOU UNDERSTAND @MMAGirl? God, I hope so after this. Jesus only helps those who seek, child.





Storage Heating for people like @MMAGirl: -

http://www.adactushousing.co.uk/Information/62

"Setting your storage heating controls

Input Dial – (can also be called Charge or Auto-set Control). The input dial controls how much electricity is absorbed and stored by the heater during the night, ready to warm your home the next day. The first time you use your heating system, set the input control to between 4 and 6.

You will then be able to gauge if you have stored enough electricity throughout the night to last right the way through the day. If the heating runs out throughout the day, you will know to set the dial to 6 for the next night, as more electricity will need to be stored to enable heating to last throughout the day.

If on the first day of heating you find that there is plenty of heating to last throughout the day, turn the input dial down slightly. Continue to do this until you find the correct input level for your lifestyle. There is no point paying for the heater to absorb electricity throughout the night if you are not using all of it."



If you have any difficulties, with this, hit Google and try "Output dial storage heater".

We are ready for your explanation. Of course, being cocky, you won't apologise for not knowing but blustering on anyway and misleading others; even when challenged.



PS

http://www.cse.org.uk/pages/skills/advice/energy-advice-leaflets/using-a-night-storage-heater More spoofmerchants, this time from the Centre for Sustainable Energy. They think the Output dial doesn't cost ya money either!! You will have a busy day on the twitter machine and the email machine setting them straight @MMAGirl. I am sure they will also enjoy your precision and technical prowess......

Night storage heaters: a simple guide

"Most storage heaters are wall-mounted and look a bit like radiators. They work by drawing electricity over the course of a few hours at night, and storing it as heat in a ‘bank’ of clay or ceramic bricks to use the following day. The advantage is that they can consume electricity at night – when it’s cheap – and then give out the heat many hours later.

As a consequence they work best if the household is on an Economy 7 tariff. This is an arrangement with an energy supplier by which the electricity that a household uses at night is much cheaper than that used during the day – typically about a third of the price.

The hours of cheap electricity are normally from 12 midnight until 07.00 in winter, and from 01.00 to 08.00 in summer, although this can vary. For more information about Economy 7 click here.

Every storage heater has a set of simple controls. An input setting allows you to regulate the amount of heat that the heater stores during the night. This is important because, even though night-rate electricity is cheap, there’s no point paying for more than you need. If it’s not particularly cold, or you’ll be out of the house for most of the day, you don’t need to set the input to maximum because there’s no point storing so much heat. Most storage heaters will only charge up at night, so there is no danger of using expensive day-rate electricity.

The controls also have an output setting that allows you to regulate the amount of heat that the storage heater gives off. It means you don’t have to use up all the stored heat at once, but can let it out gradually, saving some for the evening if you want to.

Some storage heaters have a timer that gives you even more control over the output. It allows you, for example, to programme your heater to come on at a time that suits you, for example when you get up in the morning or just before you get back from work. Others include a control that regulates the amount of charge the heater draws at night, depending on the temperature.

Some storage heaters have a ‘boost’ setting. This doesn’t use ‘cheap-rate’ stored heat, but uses ‘peak-rate’ electricity directly from the mains, so it should only be used if the stored heat has run out.

CASE STUDY: Jack and Gwen’s storage heater

Jack and Gwen are a retired couple living in a rural area. They are off the mains gas network and use electricity for their heating and hot water. They have storage heaters to take advantage of the Economy 7 tariff that they have chosen.

In winter, they are in for most of the day. This means they want the storage heater to charge fully at night, so they set the input to ‘6’ and the output to ‘1’ or ‘off’. In the morning, to warm the house up, they turn the output to ‘4’. Once the house is warm, they turn it down to 2, and in the evening when it becomes chillier, they turn it up to 5 or 6 to use up the remaining stored heat.

Storage heater tips for lower bills
The output setting of your storage heater should be turned off at night and also turned off when you are out of the room or out of the house
Don’t use the boost setting except when you really need the extra heat
Avoid using supplementary plug-in heaters – it’s better to turn up the input on your storage heater and store more heat."

That is some mad sh1t there Ted.....