Need advice,please

Roslevan · 07-12-2013 7:29pm #1

Have a major problem at work , been at successful Multinational Company for 7 years, gained successful Engineering Degree, I'm in a admin type of Role, requested 8 months ago for a change out of my area into another area, to gain experience with my new Qualification , it fell on deaf ears, I've always had good reviews, but lately I have a new Manager who dislikes me, I think cause I'm more qualified than her, I came back from Hols, then she put me on a Performance Plan, she started to micro manage me, no matter what I do , she keeps saying not good enough, she is documenting everything, I have admitted orally, I unconsciously lost focus, I'm demotivated and bored, I need a change, but they won't listen, now they have formally given me a warning, and putting me on a PIP(Performance Improvement Plan), that basically means , they are going to try and fire me, it's a absolute Nightmare, I really like working for this company, it's a nightmare , need advise!!

Bepolite · 07-12-2013 8:56pm

I'm assuming the above is the growing problem of phone posting and not a reflection of written communication in your work place?

That issue aside, clarify what you mean by a warning? Do you mean a formal warning or simply a word in relation to the performance management?

I have some sympathy, however, you were taken of for a particular role and your employer is under no obligation to move you to another position because you are bored. In relation the performance management, it should not present a problem if you are carrying out your duties to the required standard. Rather than seeing it as a tool to manage you out, use it as an opportunity to request additional training and support. Companies that genuinely try and manage people out, usually hang themselves here as they never follow up on the training needs.

Gone West · 08-12-2013 11:43am

Roslevan wrote: »

Have a major problem at work , been at successful Multinational Company for 7 years, gained successful Engineering Degree, I'm in a admin type of Role, requested 8 months ago for a change out of my area into another area, to gain experience with my new Qualification , it fell on deaf ears, I've always had good reviews, but lately I have a new Manager who dislikes me, I think cause I'm more qualified than her, I came back from Hols, then she put me on a Performance Plan, she started to micro manage me, no matter what I do , she keeps saying not good enough, she is documenting everything, I have admitted orally, I unconsciously lost focus, I'm demotivated and bored, I need a change, but they won't listen, now they have formally given me a warning, and putting me on a PIP(Performance Improvement Plan), that basically means , they are going to try and fire me, it's a absolute Nightmare, I really like working for this company, it's a nightmare , need advise!!

Start looking for a new job now, not after they fire you.
Improve your attitude in work to keep your butt in the seat a while longer, IF you don't think you can find a new job quickly.

Roslevan · 08-12-2013 12:08pm

Thank you for reply, sorry I do not know what u mean by Phone Posting ??

They have informed by e-mail, it will be a formal warning(it will be in my record in HR) , I never got one before , is this a verbal warning ?
I was advised once I get this, I will be put on the PIP, I was then advised by my Senior Manager , "I will never leave this Area in my Dept" Dept consists of 220 , my area has 45 people, my area is admin, outside in Dept, they have Qualified personnel, it's where I want to go.

I have admitted to them, I'm having personal problems,(which is effecting my focus) they advised to contact a helpline.

I am achieving results, but it's the recent Micro Managing, that's really effecting me,(it's very stressful and demotivating) my Manager just doesn't rust me, I admit I have made mistakes, he is now saying , I'm never at my desk one week, the next week, your doing too many hours, "it seems to me you can't do the job" and they now moved me alongside him in the office. ( I think that is subjective and harassment)
If you google PIP, there is horrifying stories about it, it's a means to get rid of person from the company.

Yes , I have asked for support, but the problem is, the tasks they set out, I think are unrealistic and vague.
Thanks again for your help, really appreciate it

Bepolite · 08-12-2013 5:25pm

Roslevan wrote: »

Thank you for reply, sorry I do not know what u mean by Phone Posting ??

Taking the paragraph below:

Roslevan wrote: »

They have informed by e-mail, it will be a formal warning(it will be in my record in HR) , I never got one before , is this a verbal warning ?
I was advised once I get this, I will be put on the PIP, I was then advised by my Senior Manager , "I will never leave this Area in my Dept" Dept consists of 220 , my area has 45 people, my area is admin, outside in Dept, they have Qualified personnel, it's where I want to go.

It should look more like this:

They have informed by e-mail; it will be a formal warning(it will be in my record in HR). I never got one before , is this a verbal warning ?

I was advised once I get this, I will be put on the PIP. I was also advised by my Senior Manager "I will never leave this Area in my Dept". The Dept consists of 220 an my area has 45 people, my area is admin. Outside of the Dept, they have qualified personnel, it's where I want to go.

My attempt is not perfect but you are using commas to delimit full sentences and not clauses in sentences. I assumed this was because you were posting form some device without a proper keyboard. Outside of the legal discussions forum I don't normally bring this up, I only flag it here as you are in admin and perhaps are not putting yourself forward in the best possible light.

Turning your issue, a warning should not be given without consultation with you. A statement like the one made should not have been made, it's firstly poor from a management point of view but also opens the company up to what I am going to suggest is one course of action.

It sounds like you work for a fairly large company? Were HR involved in the warning? If not I suggest raising a grievance citing that you were not consulted on the warning and the statements made to you may amount to bullying. I would also make HR aware that the PIP is too vague and you are not receiving training in areas that are highlighted.

If this falls on deaf ears the only recourse is really to speak to an employment law solicitor or simply move jobs. PIPs are used as a management tool for various things but many companies manage to use the reasonably so I wouldn't put too much stock in what you google.

Wanderer2010 · 08-12-2013 7:11pm

Bepolite wrote: »

Taking the paragraph below:

It should look more like this:

My attempt is not perfect but you are using commas to delimit full sentences and not clauses in sentences. I assumed this was because you were posting form some device without a proper keyboard. Outside of the legal discussions forum I don't normally bring this up, I only flag it here as you are in admin and perhaps are not putting yourself forward in the best possible light.

What on earth does it matter if the OP typed the post on a mobile, Tablet etc? Thats nitpicking to the extreme to point out the grammar of the post and then go so far as to rewrite it as you would find acceptable. Very petty and unhelpful to the OP. Im sure you have made a few grammar and spelling errors in your life, no?

As for the OP, I hate to be negative but PIPs ARE a tool of an employer who wants to fire someone they just dont want around anymore and want a legal way to fire you. I have seen it quite a few times in my career. My advise is to straight away document any time you feel put down or harassed as this puts you in a strong position and also for any meeting they have with you insist on a union rep being present. If they insist on demeaning you and pushing more stress on you it might be better to look around for another job OP, your mental health is much important. Good luck.

Bepolite · 08-12-2013 7:39pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

What on earth does it matter if the OP typed the post on a mobile, Tablet etc? Thats nitpicking to the extreme to point out the grammar of the post and then go so far as to rewrite it as you would find acceptable. Very petty and unhelpful to the OP. Im sure you have made a few grammar and spelling errors in your life, no?

I explained my reasons for doing it. If you have an issue with it - it's your own. I've seen many good people not progress because they don't come across well, mostly in written form. I took the time to rewrite the post to be constructive rather than nitpick. This is material to the OP given their job and frankly no one is served by dancing around a issue.

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

As for the OP, I hate to be negative but PIPs ARE a tool of an employer who wants to fire someone they just dont want around anymore and want a legal way to fire you. I have seen it quite a few times in my career. My advise is to straight away document any time you feel put down or harassed as this puts you in a strong position and also for any meeting they have with you insist on a union rep being present. If they insist on demeaning you and pushing more stress on you it might be better to look around for another job OP, your mental health is much important. Good luck.

It's a shame you have such a negative experience, many employers use them responsibility. Returning to my point above perhaps your employers did not want to raise issues with people due to them getting defensive and found it easier to get rid of them, than be frank and try and improve things?

The OP has not suggested they are part of any union and will probably not have a right to have a union rep present in most meetings anyway. Where they can have a witness is during a disciplinary hearing and it's advisable to have one.

Eoin · 08-12-2013 8:56pm

No more English lessons needed thanks.

Wanderer2010 wrote:

I hate to be negative but PIPs ARE a tool of an employer who wants to fire someone they just dont want around anymore and want a legal way to fire you

Genuine question - what would you do if you had an employee that wasn't performing? What would you do to define and measure their improvement?

Bepolite · 08-12-2013 9:09pm

Apologies Eoin, noted for future reference. I would like to provide a bit of explanation, if I may. I'm dyslexic and I had no idea how it affected how I came across in e-mails and alike until a boss of mine pointed it out and helped me overcome it, at least in relation to professional e-mails. Thankfully it was one of the first bosses I had and it didn't hold me back to an great extent. It still shows today but thankfully spell check really helps, punctuation however is a nightmare.

People seem to think it doesn't matter and, to be fair, on an on-line forum, perhaps it doesn't. It does matter in a professional setting however. That said it's your forum and I'll stick to offering advice without commenting on posting style in future.

Mrs OBumble · 08-12-2013 11:00pm

OP, I think you need to wake up a bit here:

You now have a qualification which means you would be better suited to a different role. Have you been actively looking for jobs in other companies, or are you just sitting back and hoping that your current company will make use of your qualification?

TBH, I've observed that it's very hard to move from an administrative to a professional role within the one company. To many people who have seen you as an admin person, it's not possible to take you seriously as an engineer. I find your English difficult to follow, but I'm guessing that this is what your manager meant in your quote ""I will never leave this Area in my Dept".

So I would advise actively looking for a job elsewhere.

irishguy1983 · 09-12-2013 11:35pm

Roslevan wrote: »

Have a major problem at work , been at successful Multinational Company for 7 years, gained successful Engineering Degree, I'm in a admin type of Role, requested 8 months ago for a change out of my area into another area, to gain experience with my new Qualification , it fell on deaf ears, I've always had good reviews, but lately I have a new Manager who dislikes me, I think cause I'm more qualified than her, I came back from Hols, then she put me on a Performance Plan, she started to micro manage me, no matter what I do , she keeps saying not good enough, she is documenting everything, I have admitted orally, I unconsciously lost focus, I'm demotivated and bored, I need a change, but they won't listen, now they have formally given me a warning, and putting me on a PIP(Performance Improvement Plan), that basically means , they are going to try and fire me, it's a absolute Nightmare, I really like working for this company, it's a nightmare , need advise!!

Sounds like your possibly being managed out of the business.

Probably are too bright for role and they might want someone who is more suitable.

tatli_lokma · 10-12-2013 1:15am

Just playing Devils advocate here for a minute, but OP admits that recently they have been demotivated and not fully engaged in their role. They want to move to another department and no longer feel happy in their admin job and have had personal problems which have affected their performance. Possibly management has a valid reason for implementing a PIP?

ongarboy · 10-12-2013 3:10am

Any of the many people managers I know would rather have their teeth pulled than have to micro manage one of their under performing staff due to the time consuming effort involved, the stress of dealing with the dilemma of an employee that requires the micro management and how it pulls them away from their core duties and already hectic workloads. It's usually a last resort after numerous and concerted efforts to engage the employee in trying to improve their performance through other means but without success.

I do note that most employees that have been given warnings, PIPs and are micro managed will nearly always claim that they are completely innocent and being unfairly treated even though their own peers would often also be in agreement with management that the employee is underperforming.

OP - I know little of your circumstances other than what you have told us and while I don't want to doubt you, unless you are extremely unfortunate, I don't think a manager would go to all that effort just because they simply disliked you. You assuming they have a hang up because you are more qualified is not doing you any favours. You say you are demotivated, you lost focus and are bored which must obviously show at work- they are very common reasons why employees under perform and would justify micro management.

One way to win their favour is to be motivated again, refocus and show enthusiasm for the job even if it's not your ideal. If you demonstrate outstanding effort and achievement in one role, it boosts your reputation and gives you better standing if you wish to move departments later on. I work in the fund industry where I've seen first hand, hard working employees that started out as secretaries, receptionists or entry level admin staff get promoted over the years to eventually become Vice Presidents in completely unrelated departments such as Operations/Project Management/Technology Services due to their commitment and ability and desire to transfer to different departments and learn about areas that they initially had no background in. It can be done with determination.

Alternatively if you are so unhappy with this job that you cannot change your attitude and they are not facilitating your move into a desired department (which seems justified if I'm honest -other depts are going to check your performance rating before they consider acquiring you), I recommend you start job seeking in another company for a role that you do desire. Bear in mind you will need references so don't burn your bridges with this company if and when you eventually decide to leave.

Need advice,please

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