dreadful situation

Stheno · 04-12-2013 9:45pm #1

Posting on behalf of a friend here.

They work in a family run business, and previously there were two staff in their Irish office, and the second person was not a family member. They left the company and are suing for constructive dismissal, bullying and harassment.

Since then my friend is the only member of staff in the Irish office and over the past six months has had the following issues:

Their pay date was changed without consultation by ten days, e.g. From the first to the eleventh, they found out when they didn't get paid as expected and queried it. They have never been paid for the ten days that elapsed.

They have been refused holidays for six months on the basis that the office cannot be closed

Then today the company advised that they want my friend to accept a p45 and start working for them as a contractor through an umbrella company immediately.

Imo i think they need serious legal advice, as its a family run business its worse than normal, but i cannot see how they can act as they are. My friend has been with this company for more than ten years. I am not seeking legal advice but more looking for peoples thoughts?

Stheno · 04-12-2013 11:20pm

Anyone?

gandalf · 05-12-2013 8:20am

I think they need to have a chat with a solicitor that specialises in employment law. You don't say where this company is based, I assume they aren't Irish. They sound like a very dodgy bunch to work for. If I was your friend I would looking for a job elsewhere whilst working there.

Ray13 · 05-12-2013 8:41am

Stheno wrote: »

Posting on behalf of a friend here.

They work in a family run business, and previously there were two staff in their Irish office, and the second person was not a family member. They left the company and are suing for constructive dismissal, bullying and harassment.

Since then my friend is the only member of staff in the Irish office and over the past six months has had the following issues:

Their pay date was changed without consultation by ten days, e.g. From the first to the eleventh, they found out when they didn't get paid as expected and queried it. They have never been paid for the ten days that elapsed.

They have been refused holidays for six months on the basis that the office cannot be closed

Then today the company advised that they want my friend to accept a p45 and start working for them as a contractor through an umbrella company immediately.

Imo i think they need serious legal advice, as its a family run business its worse than normal, but i cannot see how they can act as they are. My friend has been with this company for more than ten years. I am not seeking legal advice but more looking for peoples thoughts?

Sounds a bit odd, perhaps the company may be in financial trouble? You say there were two people in the office and one left (and is suing) and one remaining (is this your mate?)They seem to have made an illegal deduction in wages, your mate should raise a grievance and if not resolved it can be referred to the rights commissioner court under the payment of wages act 1991. Re holidays, did they refuse to give any time owed? More info needed. Re 'advising' the person they want him/her to accept p45, and work as contractor - it does sound strange, and if things cannot be resolved there may be a case of unfair/constructive dismissal. It would appear that this is a small company in financial trouble, and with little knowledge of employment legislation.

LegacyUser · 05-12-2013 10:17am

Your friend should not accept the P45 and work as a contractor option, as then they would lose their right to redundancy for the 10 years they have worked there as a salaried employee, as far as I know. They really need to go to a solicitor and get some legal advice before doing anything.

Stheno · 05-12-2013 9:18pm

Yep i spoke to nera today and my friend is seeing a solicitor. Last communication from his employer said basically, accept the changes or go on the dole and see how far you get in court. It was quite shocking

delthedriver · 05-12-2013 11:44pm

Stheno wrote: »

Yep i spoke to nera today and my friend is seeing a solicitor. Last communication from his employer said basically, accept the changes or go on the dole and see how far you get in court. It was quite shocking

Your friend needs to speak urgently with an Employment Law Specialist.

Talking to a local solictor who does a bit of this and that is no use.

I can give you the name of a Specialist if you wish to PM me.:)

Ray13 · 06-12-2013 1:28am

delthedriver wrote: »

Your friend needs to speak urgently with an Employment Law Specialist.

Talking to a local solictor who does a bit of this and that is no use.

I can give you the name of a Specialist if you wish to PM me.:)

In agreement with this...

Michael D Not Higgins · 06-12-2013 10:55am

My sympathies to your friend as it looks like they'll be losing their job. On the plus side, the company are handling it really badly and leaving themselves wide open to a second lawsuit. This is open and shut, and a specialist should win this no problem. My advice (beyond getting the legal side sorted) is to start looking for a new job, as even if this is sorted without your friend losing their job, it won't be for long. All indications do point toward financial difficulties.

If they can't give holidays because the office can't be closed, how are they going to deal with their only two employees not working for them and having lawsuits lined up?

Stheno · 07-12-2013 11:38pm

Thanks, as advised by delthedriver he is contacting an employment specialist Monday

His last communication was even worse, said "accept the changes, or spend five years on the dole, you've a lot to lose, no solicitor will take on your case and going to court is useless as the free lawyers are crap" (worse when it's a family member behaving like that)

That's paraphrased, but essentially the message, I was sick when I read it.

In the interim, he's gotten the p45 with no indication of how his new "contract" will work, so serious time to act.

Michael D Not Higgins · 08-12-2013 12:47am

Stheno wrote: »

Thanks, as advised by delthedriver he is contacting an employment specialist Monday

His last communication was even worse, said "accept the changes, or spend five years on the dole, you've a lot to lose, no solicitor will take on your case and going to court is useless as the free lawyers are crap" (worse when it's a family member behaving like that)

That's paraphrased, but essentially the message, I was sick when I read it.

In the interim, he's gotten the p45 with no indication of how his new "contract" will work, so serious time to act.

This is just unbelieveable. Do they expect him to be in the office on Monday?

delthedriver · 08-12-2013 9:34pm

Stheno wrote: »

Thanks, as advised by delthedriver he is contacting an employment specialist Monday

His last communication was even worse, said "accept the changes, or spend five years on the dole, you've a lot to lose, no solicitor will take on your case and going to court is useless as the free lawyers are crap" (worse when it's a family member behaving like that)

That's paraphrased, but essentially the message, I was sick when I read it.

In the interim, he's gotten the p45 with no indication of how his new "contract" will work, so serious time to act.

This is outrageous behaviour on the part of an employer, who appears to be rather shortsighted . He will ultimately bear the legal costs for both parties should the employee be successful in his action:)

Ray13 · 08-12-2013 9:51pm

delthedriver wrote: »

This is outrageous behaviour on the part of an employer, who appears to be rather shortsighted . He will ultimately bear the legal costs for both parties should the employee be successful in his action:)

Each side covers own costs.

delthedriver · 08-12-2013 10:04pm

Ray13 wrote: »

Each side covers own costs.

Why?

Ray13 · 08-12-2013 10:20pm

delthedriver wrote: »

Why?

There is an argument that it encourages frivolous lawsuits and discourages workers from settling their disputes early, since their lawyers will benefit from racking up costs by delaying and playing for time. Personally I think its unfair as a dismissed worker will struggle to pay fees, whereas a company will usually be able to afford decent legal representation. If the side that loses pays all fees it would be an extra deterrent to discourage poor treatment of staff and discourage poor employees blocking up the court system.

dreadful situation

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