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Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)
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In recent months it's been explained in detail on, I think, the Dart Underground here or on the infra board exactly how we can fund large-scale public transport projects. We're also starting a motorway project this year and the EIB are keen on funding transport projects in Ireland with their low interist loans.
This isn't just internet posters, the minister for transport is eager to push ahead with DU and maybe BRT.
The push to get public transport to come closer to pay its own way (which is somewhat misguided in some respects, but overdue in others) is an agenda the government would have had regardless, the wider issues just made it a lot easier for them.We're also starting a motorway project this year
Well a few if we include the M11 and Gort - Tuam, but that's road investment, which is a totally different kettle of fish. I'd call it critical infrastructure when we throw it Newlands Cross. Has to be done and was always ahead of the game.In recent months it's been explained in detail on, I think, the Dart Underground here or on the infra board exactly how we can fund large-scale public transport projects.
Pinch of salt when one judges it against Government interest.The push to get public transport to come closer to pay its own way (which is somewhat misguided in some respects, but overdue in others) is an agenda the government would have had regardless, the wider issues just made it a lot easier for them.
That's a bullet Monument. Since the 1960s we have tried to make CIE pay for itself and failed. Private bus operators and licences from the DOT in respect of it have changed things to a degree. The luas set up was another attempt to introduce a version of public transport that is more conducive to what we need. However, with CIE, whether you like it or not, we are being held back.
Back on topic somewhat, we are back to 1970s rail investment policy. Borrow and cripple or reinvent the public transport landscape and then pursue investment. So far both are stranded in a no mans land.0 -
Actually the debate about the WRC is not have we got the money, nor could we borrow the money, it's a question of would it be morally right to waste the money?0
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..., which is a totally different kettle of fish. I'd call it critical infrastructure ....
Pinch of salt when one judges it against Government interest.
I'm not talking about judgment calls, I'm saying the country is not broke.
Saying we're broke is a very poor reason to not to reinstate the WRC. And there's no reason for other reasons beyond the primary one -- the cost-benefit return of reinstating the railway is very poor (due to lack of population, spread out population, lack of usage of the current WRC section etc).0 -
This thread has been going on ad-nauseum about a cycleway. Has a Cost Benefit Analysis been carried out on this proposal, would local businesses contribute to the cost?0
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It's not the role of businesses to contribute to the cost of basic infrastructure; that's the role of government. Once infrastructure is in place, people can build businesses around it. Same as everywhere.theKillerBite wrote: »This thread has been going on ad-nauseum about a cycleway. Has a Cost Benefit Analysis been carried out on this proposal, would local businesses contribute to the cost?
The other issue is that many of the businesses that this kind of infrastructure will support don't exist yet. Typically, new businesses emerge and existing enterprises grow on the back of decent trails. You just have to look at the experience in other countries to see the impact of projects like this.
Funding for a railway branch line like the proposed WRC is not available from Europe, and the government has clearly stated that it doesn't intend to fund it following the failure of the first section, but there is European funding available for cycling infrastructure. The owners of the line are also happy to lend it to this project for as long as is necessary.
The option being pursued, allowing the line to fall out of public ownership while ignoring the jobs potential of the asset, is just plain daft.0 -
Sure how much is a cycle way going to cost? Will it be worth while? Will it attract users? How do we know? There is already a national cycle way in the country, can anyone here vouch for the numbers of tourists that brings?
Doubtful!0 -
Funny that you say that. We are going to Westport for a few days over Easter. A prime attraction is the cycleway. More useful than a train that would carry only about 9 passengers per service probably on a free pass anyway.Sure how much is a cycle way going to cost? Will it be worth while? Will it attract users? How do we know? There is already a national cycle way in the country, can anyone here vouch for the numbers of tourists that brings?
Doubtful!0 -
We don't have any long cycleway in Ireland at all; the only two we have are short and only support weekend breaks or day-trip cycling. Even so, they are important economic drivers in the regions where they are located.Sure how much is a cycle way going to cost? Will it be worth while? Will it attract users? How do we know? There is already a national cycle way in the country, can anyone here vouch for the numbers of tourists that brings?
Doubtful!
Connecting the existing greenway at Westport to Sligo via the closed Collooney line would give us one long trail in Ireland. A start, but it would put the west at the forefront of outdoor tourism in Ireland and could ultimately generate thousands of jobs.
Every other country in Europe has access to long cycle trails, and these support cycle tourism, a product that doesn't exist in Ireland although we have an ideal climate for it with our short winter season. A Failte Ireland report in 2006 identified this deficit, but nothing has been done about it since.
Here's a figure: A million Germans take cycling holidays each year; other nations pro-rata. Lots of Irish people do too, but they have to go to France or further afield to do it.
Simple trails such as exist elsewhere cost from €20k/km upwards. The Mayo greenway cost €120,000/km but had issues with land ownership that wouldn't be the case in this instance. The first phase of the Limerick-Kerry trail cost €20,000/km.
Here's another figure: Germany has 70,000 km of cycle trails, and they're adding more all the time. Are the Germans mad to spend money on trails, or is their country just well governed?
A final figure: The return for the investment in the Mayo greenway was of the order of 20% p/a.0 -
theKillerBite wrote: »This thread has been going on ad-nauseum about a cycleway.
Merely as an alternative to something which quite frankly is never going to happen; a railway. You may see it as ad-nauseum, the arguments have been consistently made to present an idea that is achievable and possible. A railway being restored does not fulfil any of these criteria.theKillerBite wrote: »Has a Cost Benefit Analysis been carried out on this proposal,
No - but the evidence not just from the great western greenway but every other example in Europe, NZ and the States appears to suggest for the very little cost a greenway would be would result in significant economic benefit.theKillerBite wrote: »would local businesses contribute to the cost?
Probably not. Did they afterall contribute to the Great Western Greenway where they asked to contibute to the white elephant railway that runs from Ennis to Athenry that was apparently going to generate hundreds of jobs (hundreds of passengers would have been good). They will however generate more tax revenue as a direct result of the revenue they generate from the greenway, VAT, PRSI, PAYE taxes etc, they will take people off the dole reducing the social welfare bill, but they are unlikely to actually pay the capital cost; that is the responsibility of Government. So in a way they will pay for the greenway.
Does this begin to answer your questions.0 -
I sometimes wonder. I read this on the West on Track Facebook page this evening, Fairly typical these days that every post or utterance from WoT tends to be about how do we stop the greenway. They seem to have this current crop of councillors in their pockets. We know not why. but fair play to Joe Mellett. A man of integrity.Mayo Co. Council Reiterates Stance on protecting railway
18 March 2014
No seconder for “study” motion on rail corridor
Mayo Co. Council has rejected a motion attempting to have a “study” undertaken on the Western Rail Corridor with a view to turning it into a greenway. At the Council meeting of 10th March Councillor Joe Mellett proposed the motion but failed to get a seconder.
Councillors of all parties as well as 2 independent councillors expressed their opposition to any interference with the railway noting that surveying railway lines was a matter for Iarnród Éireann.
No councillor of any party was prepared to support the motion and the Cathaoirleach deemed it to have failed.
This was the third time in 9 months that a motion of this nature had failed to get a seconder at Mayo Co. Council. Coincidentally, a similar situation occurred at Galway Co. Council last month where a pro-greenway motion was also rejected for the third time, with councillors of all parties expressing their unambiguous support for the protection of the railway for future development.0 -
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I would expect nothing less from Mayo County Council. If you speak to many of them privately they will tell you that they agree with Joe Mellett, but they fear that setting face against west on track will lose them votes.
That's the same mindset that has three MEPs spouting the same nonsense about rail development, even though as MEPs they know full well that the notion of EU funding for a railway is a complete non-runner. If the MEPs are prepared to tell people what they think they want them to hear, is it any surprise that councillors would do the same?
Politics isn't about honesty, it's about getting elected. Joe Mellett seems to be the sole honourable exception in Mayo.0 -
I would expect nothing less from Mayo County Council. If you speak to many of them privately they will tell you that they agree with Joe Mellett, but they fear that setting face against west on track will lose them votes.
That's the same mindset that has three MEPs spouting the same nonsense about rail development, even though as MEPs they know full well that the notion of EU funding for a railway is a complete non-runner. If the MEPs are prepared to tell people what they think they want them to hear, is it any surprise that councillors would do the same?
Politics isn't about honesty, it's about getting elected. Joe Mellett seems to be the sole honourable exception in Mayo.
The strange thing is, if public opinion is anything to go by, its the greenway that seems more receptive as an idea to the public these days. I think Joe is backing an election winner on his stance, especially as Swinford Vision for the future survey showed that out of 1200 interviewed/surveyed in 2012 1,000 favoured the greenway. What the the WOT facebook post/news release shows is that they are more focussed on stopping the greenway at all costs than campaigning for the railway, the debate about the greenway is now driving the social media, print media, radio media and the political debate about the western rail corridor. Long may west on track continue to give the greenway campaign exposure! The more negative West on Track are about the greenway and the more the councillors oppose the idea the more coverage the idea gets and the growing tide of support swings towards the greenway, the councillors and west on track are painting themselves into a corner!0 -
Councilors not wanting money spent on a study does not mean they all of them wholeheartedly support the railway idea.0
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Councilors not wanting money spent on a study does not mean they all of them wholeheartedly support the railway idea.
But Monument it backs up Gerry "not up for discussion" Murray of Sinn Fein who supports West on Track, that they are not prepared to even discuss the issue, all Joe Mellett wanted was a seconder so the issue could be debated. The simple truth is if you speak to many of the councillors privately, which I have, they will tell you they no full well the railway is never going to be re-opened but this one issue seems to have become a thorn in their side, they simply will not act on what they say privately and how they behave on this issue in the council chamber. It is quite bizarre and indeed quite cynical, hopefully after May there may be some fresh blood in the chamber that may not stick to the old cronyism.0 -
I wouldn't bank on it! It will take Central Govt action to get a Greenway going I think0
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We don't have any long cycleway in Ireland at all; the only two we have are short and only support weekend breaks or day-trip cycling. Even so, they are important economic drivers in the regions where they are located.
Connecting the existing greenway at Westport to Sligo via the closed Collooney line would give us one long trail in Ireland. A start, but it would put the west at the forefront of outdoor tourism in Ireland and could ultimately generate thousands of jobs.
Every other country in Europe has access to long cycle trails, and these support cycle tourism, a product that doesn't exist in Ireland although we have an ideal climate for it with our short winter season. A Failte Ireland report in 2006 identified this deficit, but nothing has been done about it since.
Here's a figure: A million Germans take cycling holidays each year; other nations pro-rata. Lots of Irish people do too, but they have to go to France or further afield to do it.
Simple trails such as exist elsewhere cost from €20k/km upwards. The Mayo greenway cost €120,000/km but had issues with land ownership that wouldn't be the case in this instance. The first phase of the Limerick-Kerry trail cost €20,000/km.
Here's another figure: Germany has 70,000 km of cycle trails, and they're adding more all the time. Are the Germans mad to spend money on trails, or is their country just well governed?
A final figure: The return for the investment in the Mayo greenway was of the order of 20% p/a.
Hardly...
We already have a national cycle way within the Republic of Ireland I don't see thousands of tourists flocking here to use it..
Never see the ferries crammed with bikes with folks going on holiday to cycle0 -
Really? When I use the ferry there are always quite a few vehicles with cycles strapped to them.0
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But Monument it backs up Gerry "not up for discussion" Murray of Sinn Fein who supports West on Track, that they are not prepared to even discuss the issue, all Joe Mellett wanted was a seconder so the issue could be debated. The simple truth is if you speak to many of the councillors privately, which I have, they will tell you they no full well the railway is never going to be re-opened but this one issue seems to have become a thorn in their side, they simply will not act on what they say privately and how they behave on this issue in the council chamber. It is quite bizarre and indeed quite cynical, hopefully after May there may be some fresh blood in the chamber that may not stick to the old cronyism.
I was actually talking to a counclor soon after my last post. He confirmed I was correct and that he voted along with others just because they don't want more money spent on studies.
It was poor timing to try and have the debate after the recent media reports of money being wasted on consultants writing reports on parking in one town in the county.
The WRC councilors and maybe others also seem to have pushed the idea that agreeing to such a motion would be acting illegally because it's Irish Rail's land.
It sounds like councilors need more convincing before it's debated.Hardly...
We already have a national cycle way within the Republic of Ireland
Where would that be?I don't see thousands of tourists flocking here to use it..
Never see the ferries crammed with bikes with folks going on holiday to cycle
The tourists heading to the camp site down the road from where I live nearly always have bikes attached to their cars/vans/camper vans/ RVs etc0 -
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Have a look at this submission to Western Regional authority. It doesn't take much working our what could be achieved. First few pages lays out the strategy.0
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Where is it? We don't have a cycleway that is long enough for a week's holidays. We have a a few bits here and there, but we don't have the basic routes such as are common everywhere else.Hardly...
We already have a national cycle way within the Republic of Ireland I don't see thousands of tourists flocking here to use it..
Never see the ferries crammed with bikes with folks going on holiday to cycle
Cycling tourism is a booming sector everywhere else, but we deliberately exclude ourselves from that market. Why? Are we afraid they'll run off with our wimmin?0 -
... whatever it is they think you want to hear.If you speak to many of them privately they will tell you ...
Folks, ye're very naieve with yer "speak to them privately and they'll tell you ...". We have only one way to judge politicians - not how they speak privately but how they act publicly.The simple truth is if you speak to many of the councillors privately, which I have, they will tell you they no full well the railway is never going to be re-opened but this one issue seems to have become a thorn in their side, they simply will not act on what they say privately and how they behave on this issue in the council chamber. It is quite bizarre and indeed quite cynical, hopefully after May there may be some fresh blood in the chamber that may not stick to the old cronyism.
And in the case of Mayo (and Galway) county council they have nailed their colours to the mast in terms of public behaviour.
Since they refuse to act publicly in the same way that they speak privately, then their private speaking is not worth a curse.
Coming up to the local elections you can expect them to support both the railway and the greenway - depending on what house they call to.0 -
... whatever it is they think you want to hear.
Folks, ye're very naieve with yer "speak to them privately and they'll tell you ...". We have only one way to judge politicians - not how they speak privately but how they act publicly.
And in the case of Mayo (and Galway) county council they have nailed their colours to the mast in terms of public behaviour.
Since they refuse to act publicly in the same way that they speak privately, then their private speaking is not worth a curse.
Coming up to the local elections you can expect them to support both the railway and the greenway - depending on what house they call to.
Serf yes indeed it is sadly true, I have had those conversations though and they are inherently dishonest when it comes to how they have acted. Sad but true.0 -
Hardly...
We already have a national cycle way within the Republic of Ireland I don't see thousands of tourists flocking here to use it..
Never see the ferries crammed with bikes with folks going on holiday to cycle
Still trying to figure where it is. We have a couple of short greenways, but they're day-trip length, not aware of one that would provide for a week's holidays. I'd love to know where this national trail is.0 -
Hardly...
We already have a national cycle way within the Republic of Ireland I don't see thousands of tourists flocking here to use it..
Never see the ferries crammed with bikes with folks going on holiday to cycle
JMLFC - please do glance through this report
http://www.failteireland.ie/FailteIreland/media/WebsiteStructure/Documents/3_Research_Insights/1_Sectoral_SurveysReports/CyclingStrategy2007.pdf?ext=.pdf
It helps if you are armed with the facts, when you read this report you will understand why you never see the ferries crammed with bikes. Then have a quick look at the .pdf I posted up as a submission to the western Regional authority and on the map on page 4 of that .pdf think about the canal tow paths that could be overlaid on that map, if they were cleaned up and made safe to cycle on and throw in the greenway from Navan to Kingscourt that is being created and the great southern trail. This then starts to become the skeletal map of what could be achieved but is not there yet.0 -
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At the moment, to all intents and purposes, we are unique in Europe in not having any cycling infrastructure. The few small bits we have don't count and are of absolutely no use in attracting a slice of this massive tourism business.JMLFC - please do glance through this report
http://www.failteireland.ie/FailteIreland/media/WebsiteStructure/Documents/3_Research_Insights/1_Sectoral_SurveysReports/CyclingStrategy2007.pdf?ext=.pdf
It helps if you are armed with the facts, when you read this report you will understand why you never see the ferries crammed with bikes. Then have a quick look at the .pdf I posted up as a submission to the western Regional authority and on the map on page 4 of that .pdf think about the canal tow paths that could be overlaid on that map, if they were cleaned up and made safe to cycle on and throw in the greenway from Navan to Kingscourt that is being created and the great southern trail. This then starts to become the skeletal map of what could be achieved but is not there yet.
We need long trails; nobody is going to come here for a week to cycle the mayo greenway. That trail would keep a cyclist busy for half a day, what would they do for the rest of the week?
In Germany for instance I can get on the Danube cycle path and stay on it for a week, likewise any of the long trails in France, or Hungary or other European countries. We have never gone after this business, mostly because the infrastructure has to be provided by county councils, and councillors simply don't understand the business. They seem to take a view that anyone on a bike is just someone who can't afford a car. They miss the fact that cycling and walking tourists are one of the highest spending categories of visitor, and that they form the basis of a sustainable business -- a change in the tax laws won't see these jobs all moving to India.
When councillors go abroad on junkets, why don't they go with eyes open and bring back ideas that create wealth and jobs in other countries? No need to reinvent the wheel; just copy best practice elsewhere.
Instead they look back to the nineteenth century and try to recreate that. It doesn't work, folks ; check the ghost train from Ennis to Athenry if you doubt me.0 -
Where is it? We don't have a cycleway that is long enough for a week's holidays. We have a a few bits here and there, but we don't have the basic routes such as are common everywhere else.
Cycling tourism is a booming sector everywhere else, but we deliberately exclude ourselves from that market. Why? Are we afraid they'll run off with our wimmin?
One has to question if those hard-core cycle tourists actually require a totally segregated route on which to travel. We have had a lot of blather about the NCN in recent times but this is a collection of disjointed and unconnected local stretches which, individually, are suited to the leisure community and families. The signing of the Wild Atlantic Way may be, if properly exploited, the most significant development in Irish tourism in many years. Those who integrate cycling into their holidays have different needs from those whose primary holiday intentions are to cycle. The former might find short (25km) local scenic routes to be sufficient whereas the latter would willingly share lightly-trafficked routes for long-distance touring. There are many routes in the latter category - the C&O Canal, Erie Canal, Katy Trail are typical rails to trails initiatives in the States and the Eurovelo 6 (Atlantic to Black Sea) in Europe are examples of routes where bicycle traffic is largely segregated and which prove excellent draws with families and which have given a life back to communities along the routes.
A development of the towpaths along the Grand and Royal Canals would probably achieve for Ireland what the Danube Route has done for Austria.
The main attraction of a development of a 80km route along the Claremorris - Collooney route would be the benefit of a rail approach to both ends. The distance has other benefits in relation to the towns along the routes. 80kms is four days' walk, two day's family cycle or one day's significant cycle. Towns are well-placed along the route to service these needs and also to serve needs of locals. Imagine a safe route from Kiltimagh to Claremorris or Kiltimagh to Swinford (I'm not as familiar with Charlestown, Tubbercurry and Coolaney) as normal routes on which people might be encouraged to engage in social intercourse.
On the other hand, I'm sure that the viability of a rail link on the route will be readily assessed from an analysis of the passenger numbers on the bus service from Sligo to Claremorris.0 -
You'd get away with a mix, but I wouldn't bother going to a country where there wasn't a decent trail. I have no interest in spending a week sharing a route with cars; I want to get away from noise and pollution when I'm on holiday, and that would be the view of family groups in particular.One has to question if those hard-core cycle tourists actually require a totally segregated route on which to travel. We have had a lot of blather about the NCN in recent times but this is a collection of disjointed and unconnected local stretches which, individually, are suited to the leisure community and families. The signing of the Wild Atlantic Way may be, if properly exploited, the most significant development in Irish tourism in many years. Those who integrate cycling into their holidays have different needs from those whose primary holiday intentions are to cycle. The former might find short (25km) local scenic routes to be sufficient whereas the latter would willingly share lightly-trafficked routes for long-distance touring. There are many routes in the latter category - the C&O Canal, Erie Canal, Katy Trail are typical rails to trails initiatives in the States and the Eurovelo 6 (Atlantic to Black Sea) in Europe are examples of routes where bicycle traffic is largely segregated and which prove excellent draws with families and which have given a life back to communities along the routes.
A development of the towpaths along the Grand and Royal Canals would probably achieve for Ireland what the Danube Route has done for Austria.
The main attraction of a development of a 80km route along the Claremorris - Collooney route would be the benefit of a rail approach to both ends. The distance has other benefits in relation to the towns along the routes. 80kms is four days' walk, two day's family cycle or one day's significant cycle. Towns are well-placed along the route to service these needs and also to serve needs of locals. Imagine a safe route from Kiltimagh to Claremorris or Kiltimagh to Swinford (I'm not as familiar with Charlestown, Tubbercurry and Coolaney) as normal routes on which people might be encouraged to engage in social intercourse.
On the other hand, I'm sure that the viability of a rail link on the route will be readily assessed from an analysis of the passenger numbers on the bus service from Sligo to Claremorris.
Definitely the canal towpaths are a no-brainer; it's amazing that it's taking them so long to just upgrade the towpaths. You don't need to spend a fortune on consultants, just give waterways ireland a few bob and tell them upgrade the existing paths.
I'm not sure about the wild Atlantic way. If it stays like it is, without coach tours and traffic, it will add to the mix. Other countries however have tons of dedicated cycling/walking paths, and a big part of that asset is the recycling of disused railways. We need to do the same.0 -
Reference the Wild Atlantic Way, nice idea, but it is not an option for touring cyclists, it does not fulfill the basic need tourism cyclists have asked for segregated routes like the Mayo greenway away from cars. Again I urge anyone with an interest in this to please read that Failte Ireland report I posted up a link too. I live within 400 yards of the WAW, parts of the route that has been designated as WAW are going to make cycling more dangerous, because car tourists travelling along it will be unaware of every local bend and brow of hill. I actually fear for cyclists who buy into the WAW as some kind of pootling along a boreen in the irish countryside being shared with tourists doing the route, a lot of the WAW is on very small roads with dangerous spots on - and I think is going lead to some pretty traumatic RTAs some potentially involving cyclists. I hope I am wrong, but I would not want to cycle the route as a leisure cyclist, to blady dangerous.0
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Reference the Wild Atlantic Way, nice idea, but it is not an option for touring cyclists, it does not fulfill the basic need tourism cyclists have asked for segregated routes like the Mayo greenway away from cars.....
You're probably right in relation to family and leisure groups, but we have to realise that Mizen to Malin is a route undertaken by groups annually. This is on shared routes and most seem to survive it. Perhaps, if the publicity for the WAW indicated the likelihood that drivers will inevitably encounter cyclists along the route, it might be OK.
I will embark on - and hope to complete - a self-supported cycle across the US this summer from San Francisco to Boston via Washington D.C. http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/Dolani and I should be in a better position to assess mixed traffic. In 2013, I cycled the Camino de Santiago de Compostela from SJPP to Santiago de Compostela - sometimes along the trails the walkers took, but mostly along the road parallel to the trails. I found no problem with mixed traffic. In Aug 2013, I cycled from Passau to Vienna along the Danube and I will admit that as a "no effort" relaxing and family friendly route, I think it is the best I've seen. The towns along the way compete with eachother to be bicycle-friendly and, in the Wachau, the prices in the restaurant are very accessible. Whether camping, staying in Pensions or in hotels, there was no sign of a rip-off.
My point remains, that a Greenway, serves the needs of many but not all - just as the WAW serves the needs of some. I would hope to cycle the WAW in 2015 in a self-supported manner covering about 80 - 100kms per day. I'd hope to be able to assess the level of services available along the route and - who knows - there might be others who might jon me on this adventure.
Despite all, given a choice of whether a greenway along the disused sections of the WRC or a train to transport me and my bicycle along the same length of track was more likely, I would be very pessimistic if I plumped for the latter>0 -
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Quote: jmlfc
Hardly...
We already have a national cycle way within the Republic of Ireland I don't see thousands of tourists flocking here to use it..
Never see the ferries crammed with bikes with folks going on holiday to cycle
Still waiting for a response. Dying to know where it is, this national cycleway.0 -
Reference the Wild Atlantic Way, nice idea, but it is not an option for touring cyclists, it does not fulfill the basic need tourism cyclists have asked for segregated routes like the Mayo greenway away from cars. Again I urge anyone with an interest in this to please read that Failte Ireland report I posted up a link too. I live within 400 yards of the WAW, parts of the route that has been designated as WAW are going to make cycling more dangerous, because car tourists travelling along it will be unaware of every local bend and brow of hill. I actually fear for cyclists who buy into the WAW as some kind of pootling along a boreen in the irish countryside being shared with tourists doing the route, a lot of the WAW is on very small roads with dangerous spots on - and I think is going lead to some pretty traumatic RTAs some potentially involving cyclists. I hope I am wrong, but I would not want to cycle the route as a leisure cyclist, to blady dangerous.
The simple solution is to make reckless driving harder, by engineering or enforcement methods.
I don't think there will be significant cycling infrastructure built closer to the ocean than the existing road infrastructure, so I think the existing road infrastructure needs improving for cyclists.
There is a need for a hierarchy of cycling routes to be established, like skiing routes, where you have routes your child can cycle immediately after you take the stabilisers off, through several levels to a route for "experienced cyclists" only routes.
I couldn't foresee tax funds making paths for lads to cycle the cliffs of Moher like the youtube clip, but I could see the path from O Brien's tower down to Doolin being an advanced cycle path.
The WAW has an element of uniqueness, where most cycle/walkways won't have, which separates it from the WRC bike corridor or the canal tow paths...
There's a bunch or routes worldwide on the banks of the ocean, where people will be drawn irrespective of the infrastructure.0 -
It's all about competing with countries that have dedicated cycling trails, and that means almost everywhere else.Carawaystick wrote: »The simple solution is to make reckless driving harder, by engineering or enforcement methods.
I don't think there will be significant cycling infrastructure built closer to the ocean than the existing road infrastructure, so I think the existing road infrastructure needs improving for cyclists.
There is a need for a hierarchy of cycling routes to be established, like skiing routes, where you have routes your child can cycle immediately after you take the stabilisers off, through several levels to a route for "experienced cyclists" only routes.
I couldn't foresee tax funds making paths for lads to cycle the cliffs of Moher like the youtube clip, but I could see the path from O Brien's tower down to Doolin being an advanced cycle path.
The WAW has an element of uniqueness, where most cycle/walkways won't have, which separates it from the WRC bike corridor or the canal tow paths...
There's a bunch or routes worldwide on the banks of the ocean, where people will be drawn irrespective of the infrastructure.
The 2006 Failte ireland report showed that we have none of this business, yet we've done nothing about it.
The county councils' response is to build the rest of a railway that has already been shown to be a failure, with non-existent funding. Not very bright!0 -
Using old railways, river banks, and the sides of roads there's already plans for mostly off-road cycle routes which will form one at some stage going from Galway-Cliften-Westport-Castlebar-Foxford-Ballina-Killala. At Ballina it should really be the aim to continue onto Sligo via the coast or even over the Ox Mountains. There would also be branches such as the current greenway starting at Westport.
Quality is an issue. But plans are and, in some cases, construction is advancing for such a long-distance route.
It's not like the councils are not acting and it's not like we can't build long-distance off-road routes -- I would put the above routing above keeping to the coast, but that should follow.
The WRC could also follow.0 -
Carawaystick wrote: »
...There is a need for a hierarchy of cycling routes to be established, like skiing routes, where you have routes your child can cycle immediately after you take the stabilisers off, through several levels to a route for "experienced cyclists" only routes...
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I think this is a fantastic idea - it would cater to the diverse cycling constituency. From Mam & Dad with the Kids on a Sunday to the serious club rider, there exists a spectrum of capabilities and needs. Signage and indication that a route is shared is all that is required. Then let the users make up their own minds.0 -
I think this is a fantastic idea - it would cater to the diverse cycling constituency. From Mam & Dad with the Kids on a Sunday to the serious club rider, there exists a spectrum of capabilities and needs. Signage and indication that a route is shared is all that is required. Then let the users make up their own minds.
Realistically though, we are starting from scratch with the kind of infrastructure that is the norm in most European countries. In time, we may develop such infrastructure, but we now need to get a lot of mileage established quickly and at best value for money. The obvious way to do this is to use publicly-owned lands such as the canal banks and disused rail routes, and then build on this core network.
There are very few places where people can go to cycle away from traffic, and the success of the one short greenway in Mayo points to a pent-up demand for such local amenities. Tourism and inward investment are a bonus, if anything; the good of the communities along these routes is also of the utmost importance. Commuting to school or work, going for something to eat or drink in the next town or village, or going for a walk with toddlers during the daytime -- these are the benefits of dedicated cycling and walking trails.
But of course we are definitely getting a high-speed train on this route, 'sometime after 2016', or just ahead of the next Dail election as it is also known.
I wonder how many people actually believe that?0 -
I think the Uk and other countries have a huge advantage in their existing networks. We don't seem to have footpaths and bridleways here like they do "over"0
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I think the Uk and other countries have a huge advantage in their existing networks. We don't seem to have footpaths and bridleways here like they do "over"
They have access in general to the countryside, but that can never happen here -- smaller farms, no tradition of access etc.
All the more reason to open up the strips of land that we do own; the attitude of county councils like Sligo, Galway and Mayo is hard to understand. There does appear to be an antagonism towards tourists and leisure cyclists and walkers, as though they weren't welcome in these counties.
'Send us the money, but don't come visiting and bothering us.'0 -
Using old railways, river banks, and the sides of roads there's already plans for mostly off-road cycle routes which will form one at some stage going from Galway-Cliften-Westport-Castlebar-Foxford-Ballina-Killala. At Ballina it should really be the aim to continue onto Sligo via the coast or even over the Ox Mountains. There would also be branches such as the current greenway starting at Westport.
Quality is an issue. But plans are and, in some cases, construction is advancing for such a long-distance route.
It's not like the councils are not acting and it's not like we can't build long-distance off-road routes -- I would put the above routing above keeping to the coast, but that should follow.
The WRC could also follow.
Councils might benefit from greater exposure of the positive plans they might have for the provision of the paths to which you refer. Those of us who would advocate - and claim that councils are lethargic - might come onside and move from being negative to being publicists. As things stand, it appears to most rational observers that the disused railway line between Claremorris and Collooney is a wasted resource - that the view that it can be reopened as a viable concern in the near future is but a pipedream. It is for that reason that the Greenway has become a rallying cry on the line. Provision of off-road alternatives for walkers and cyclists would defuse this situation.0 -
Well Leo has been busy hasn't he. Saying it as it is about our railway network, surprised none of this has been posted up yet!
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/varadkar-loves-railways-but-warns-irish-rail-on-funding-1.1749163
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/leo-varadkar-im-romantic-i-love-the-railways-i-had-a-train-set-as-a-kid-30152502.html
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-and-labour-ministers-set-for-clash-over-cuts-to-irish-rail-services-30154527.html
Not to mention all the stuff in the western regionals about these renegade MEP candidates who are not towing the line and chief whip of West on Track!0 -
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It's over. Anyone that thinks that the WRC will be extended north of Athenry is seriously delusional.Well Leo has been busy hasn't he. Saying it as it is about our railway network, surprised none of this has been posted up yet!
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/varadkar-loves-railways-but-warns-irish-rail-on-funding-1.1749163
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/leo-varadkar-im-romantic-i-love-the-railways-i-had-a-train-set-as-a-kid-30152502.html
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-and-labour-ministers-set-for-clash-over-cuts-to-irish-rail-services-30154527.html
Not to mention all the stuff in the western regionals about these renegade MEP candidates who are not towing the line and chief whip of West on Track!0 -
Well Leo has been busy hasn't he. Saying it as it is about our railway network, surprised none of this has been posted up yet!
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/varadkar-loves-railways-but-warns-irish-rail-on-funding-1.1749163
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/leo-varadkar-im-romantic-i-love-the-railways-i-had-a-train-set-as-a-kid-30152502.html
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-and-labour-ministers-set-for-clash-over-cuts-to-irish-rail-services-30154527.html
Not to mention all the stuff in the western regionals about these renegade MEP candidates who are not towing the line and chief whip of West on Track!
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=20571820840 -
Sorry Corky I have been off boards duty a couple of days! but I meant not posted up on this trojan thread.
But as EASTWEST says the game is now up, the Western Rail Corridor is now over and done with, it is just the matter of the official announcement that it is not going to happen and it is not going to be considered again ever..... Just need that final ministerial nail in the coffin to make it official.0 -
Unfortunately the last sting of a dying wasp may take a long time to be delivered!0
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Sorry Corky I have been off boards duty a couple of days! but I meant not posted up on this trojan thread.
But as EASTWEST says the game is now up, the Western Rail Corridor is now over and done with, it is just the matter of the official announcement that it is not going to happen and it is not going to be considered again ever..... Just need that final ministerial nail in the coffin to make it official.
Leo's comments make no reference to the WRC, I don't know where you think some sort of official announcement will be forthcoming from.
There will be no announcement its not going ahead, just the usual lines at each election time, preserve the alignment, continue to campaign for the railway to be reopened when improved economic conditions prevail etc. etc.
We all know it will probably never be built but its a handy few paragraphs to beef up the manifesto that doesn't draw controversy.0 -
Leo's comments make no reference to the WRC, I don't know where you think some sort of official announcement will be forthcoming from.
There will be no announcement its not going ahead, just the usual lines at each election time, preserve the alignment, continue to campaign for the railway to be reopened when improved economic conditions prevail etc. etc.
We all know it will probably never be built but its a handy few paragraphs to beef up the manifesto that doesn't draw controversy.
I disagree - I think due to the campaigning of both the Sligo Mayo Greenway campaign and the Tuam Greenway campaign and the fact the greenway alternative seems to be driving the media agenda, I think we have come to a shift change in attitude and the WRC will not appear in manifestos even as a long distance objective anymore. There is a real demand now for leisure facilities and the simple ability to have a safe walk or cycle is becoming an issue people want to see addressed. I don't share your pessimism, the reason is a number of politicians are now coming on board and being vocal about the greenway so it is becoming a political issue. There would have been no mention of the Western Rail Corridor in the forthcoming election if the greenway campaign hadn't started - it would have remained one of those long promisary notes and a footnote to the campaign - the fact three MEP candidates including a sitting high profile MEP have broken ranks with the accepted "establishment view" that the railway is what we want, has raised the bar on this issue. The greenway campaigners have changed the game.
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19646:greenway-extension-to-sligo-becomes-political-issue-for-european-candidates&catid=23:news&Itemid=46
There was extensive coverage of this in the Sligo Weekender with a double page spread and in the sligo Champion, but not yet up on their websites. The split of difference of opinion between Mairead McGuinness and Jim Higgins is going to run and develop further - in the west it will and this story does have legs.0 -
I think I agree....change is slow to come but it is creeping forward in your favour westy!0
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I think I agree....change is slow to come but it is creeping forward in your favour westy!
thanks, did you see the SMG campaign letter in the IT on Saturday, scroll down to second letter on the comments of Mr. Varadkar
http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/future-of-the-western-rail-corridor-1.17508160 -
I'm not sure if it's a coincidence, and I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but it looks like someone tried to hack my boards account. I've just had an email from boards telling me that I've requested a password change! (I haven't).
Have I really upset 'them' that much? ;-)0 -
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I'm not sure if it's a coincidence, and I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but it looks like someone tried to hack my boards account. I've just had an email from boards telling me that I've requested a password change! (I haven't).
Have I really upset 'them' that much? ;-)
Might be a troll to get your password which then may match other passwords.
Never use passwords you use for social media sites that you use on banking sites or for credit card payments.
set yourself a reminder to change passwords every three months on virtually everything you use.
Of course none of us do this and that's why we all become the victims of cyber theft!
It might of course be "them" you have of course upset "them" a great deal, but not half as much as I plan to ......
Roll on May 23rd. No greenway no vote....just to get it back on topic.0
This discussion has been closed.
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