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Leaving Cert taking over my brother.

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  • 21-11-2014 11:13pm
    #1
    Macavity.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭


    Okay, my brother is doing the Leaving Cert. this year. He wants to do medicine so naturally enough he is studying a lot. At the start of the school year, he sold most of his stuff - PS3, games, movies, guitar etc.. as he says they are all distractions. He also broke up with his girlfriend for the same reason and gave up Hurling.

    We thought it was a bit extreme but weren't overly concerned. Now, a few months in and he has completely alienated himself from the world. He doesn't go out with friends or anything and he spends all day in his room studying. His study plan has him studying from 6-8 in the morning and from 5-12 in the evening with a couple of short breaks for food.

    I had a week off from college recently and I saw him three times over the entire week. He has put a lock on the door so people won't bother him. He also wants to drop out of school and just do everything at home apart from project work. I was talking to his friend a week ago and he told me he spends all of his time in the library when he's not in class (lunch time, PE).

    My parents are worried that this could be very damaging for his health? What do we do?


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    #2
    IncognitoX
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭IncognitoX


    I honestly think you'd get much better advice if this thread was moved to the Personal Issues forum.


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    #3
    dalta5billion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭dalta5billion


    Macavity. wrote: »
    Okay, my brother is doing the Leaving Cert. this year. He wants to do medicine so naturally enough he is studying a lot. At the start of the school year, he sold most of his stuff - PS3, games, movies, guitar etc.. as he says they are all distractions. He also broke up with his girlfriend for the same reason and gave up Hurling.

    We thought it was a bit extreme but weren't overly concerned. Now, a few months in and he has completely alienated himself from the world. He doesn't go out with friends or anything and he spends all day in his room studying. His study plan has him studying from 6-8 in the morning and from 5-12 in the evening with a couple of short breaks for food.

    I had a week off from college recently and I saw him three times over the entire week. He has put a lock on the door so people won't bother him. He also wants to drop out of school and just do everything at home apart from project work. I was talking to his friend a week ago and he told me he spends all of his time in the library when he's not in class (lunch time, PE).

    My parents are worried that this could be very damaging for his health? What do we do?

    Tell him he's literally killing himself.

    Sometimes you have to put your health and mind before the leaving cert. Down-time is essential for your wellbeing. It's about achieving balance, and if that means flunking a test here or there so be it.


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    #4
    Macavity.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Macavity.


    IncognitoX wrote: »
    I honestly think you'd get much better advice if this thread was moved to the Personal Issues forum.

    Maybe, whatever the mods think.
    dalta5billion wrote: »
    Tell him he's literally killing himself.

    Sometimes you have to put your health and mind before the leaving cert. Down-time is essential for your wellbeing. It's about achieving balance, and if that means flunking a test here or there so be it.

    We've told him all that but he won't listen.


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    #5
    DublinArnie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭DublinArnie


    Macavity. wrote: »
    Okay, my brother is doing the Leaving Cert. this year. He wants to do medicine so naturally enough he is studying a lot. At the start of the school year, he sold most of his stuff - PS3, games, movies, guitar etc.. as he says they are all distractions. He also broke up with his girlfriend for the same reason and gave up Hurling.

    We thought it was a bit extreme but weren't overly concerned. Now, a few months in and he has completely alienated himself from the world. He doesn't go out with friends or anything and he spends all day in his room studying. His study plan has him studying from 6-8 in the morning and from 5-12 in the evening with a couple of short breaks for food.

    I had a week off from college recently and I saw him three times over the entire week. He has put a lock on the door so people won't bother him. He also wants to drop out of school and just do everything at home apart from project work. I was talking to his friend a week ago and he told me he spends all of his time in the library when he's not in class (lunch time, PE).

    My parents are worried that this could be very damaging for his health? What do we do?

    People have different limits. Others would go insane without any real exercise or social contact in a few days ... others would last a long time.

    Just because the average teenager hangs out with their mates on a Friday night or what not, doesn't mean everyone would prefer to do that. He has finally woken up, and realised he basically has one chance. He doesn't want to waste a year repeating, or taking a very long route into medicine.

    Your brother wants the direct and shortest route, through the CAO. He'd rather sacrifice a lot of things just so he can thrive in his hobbies and happiness later on in life (medicine usually leads to high paid jobs.)

    It makes sense to me, despite being a strong believer of 'exercise makes you think better.' One thing I'd add though, he should do some form of activity. Push him to do running at least, as it doesn't require as much dedication as joining a hurling team.

    Imagine being in his shoes, and you'll understand.

    EDIT: If he's so interested in medicine and biology, he should know what physical activity can do to the mind and muscle memory.


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    #6
    IncognitoX
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭IncognitoX


    DublinArnie wrote: »
    People have different limits. Others would go insane without any real exercise or social contact in a few days ... others would last a long time.

    Just because the average teenager hangs out with their mates on a Friday night or what not, doesn't mean everyone would prefer to do that. He has finally woken up, and realised he basically has one chance. He doesn't want to waste a year repeating, or taking a very long route into medicine.

    Your brother wants the direct and shortest route, through the CAO. He'd rather sacrifice a lot of things just so he can thrive in his hobbies and happiness later on in life (medicine usually leads to high paid jobs.)

    It makes sense to me, despite being a strong believer of 'exercise makes you think better.' One thing I'd add though, he should do some form of activity. Push him to do running at least, as it doesn't require as much dedication as joining a hurling team.

    Imagine being in his shoes, and you'll understand.

    EDIT: If he's so interested in medicine and biology, he should know what physical activity can do to the mind and muscle memory.

    It's one thing dedicating yourself to pursuing your dream. Cutting yourself off from the world is a completely different thing. The first can be done without having to completely isolate yourself and cut yourself of from the world.


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    #7
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    it seems a bit over the top imo.
    have your parents sat with him and voiced their concerns?

    if he feels he has to cut himself off from everything to achieve enough points in a LC, how is he going to manage the workload to study medicine in college?

    it's good that you've noticed his behaviour and are concerned. the next step is that he needs to speak with someone.

    good luck


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    #8
    Sclosages
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 489 ✭✭Sclosages


    Sounds a bit obsessive. Medicine does require serious hours though and serious dedication. If he needs that amount of study to make it, it might not be for him. 3 hours study per day should be sufficient. If you can't make it at that level, you're possibly reaching higher than you're capable for.


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    #9
    Flippyfloppy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    If he was beginning 5th year Id be worried, but seeing as he's in 6th Id be inclined to let him at it. How is he doing in school? Has he always been studious?


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    #10
    Macavity.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Macavity.


    DublinArnie wrote: »
    Just because the average teenager hangs out with their mates on a Friday night or what not, doesn't mean everyone would prefer to do that.

    I realise people are different. It's just a bit concerning as he is a very sociable person usually, and would have had an active social life all through school.
    Imagine being in his shoes, and you'll understand.

    I have been in his shoes and got into a highish enough points course (over 500) without doing close to what he is doing. I'm not convinced it is necessary to study that much, although he's probably aiming for 600+.

    Flippyfloppy wrote: »
    If he was beginning 5th year Id be worried, but seeing as he's in 6th Id be inclined to let him at it. How is he doing in school? Has he always been studious?

    He gets mostly 90%+ in tests this year. He would have been a lot less studious prior to this year. Just cramming really for tests and stuff. He still did well enough though.

    To be honest, I think he is a bit too young for the LC. He skipped TY and is only just gone 17. He said he's only doing medicine for the money and status. Not a good reason IMO.


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    #11
    0byme75341jo28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭0byme75341jo28


    Sounds like he needs to realise that the leaving cert simply isn't important. Personally, I would get your parent to take away his books and only allow him an hour a day, just at the weekends, to study. There are many ways he can make it into his favoured career without damaging his mental well-being, has he looked into doing a PLC at all, or possibly Youth Reach?


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    #12
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    Being a doctor isn't the status symbol it once was. Nor is it the highest paid. Tell him look at what traders make, or people in the petrochemical industry make, if it's all about money to him.


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    #13
    IncognitoX
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭IncognitoX


    Graysen Rancid Broom wrote: »
    Sounds like he needs to realise that the leaving cert simply isn't important. Personally, I would get your parent to take away his books and only allow him an hour a day, just at the weekends, to study. There are many ways he can make it into his favoured career without damaging his mental well-being, has he looked into doing a PLC at all, or possibly Youth Reach?

    This is a silly post, no offense. Why should someone who wants to do Medicine do a PLC or Youth Reach?

    And there is no need to restrict his study time that much. If he wants to get into Medicine, then a lot of study is required. However, the key is finding a solid balance between study and other activities, of which the OP's brother currently has none.


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    #14
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Graysen Rancid Broom wrote: »
    Sounds like he needs to realise that the leaving cert simply isn't important. Personally, I would get your parent to take away his books and only allow him an hour a day, just at the weekends, to study. There are many ways he can make it into his favoured career without damaging his mental well-being, has he looked into doing a PLC at all, or possibly Youth Reach?
    What is a PLC or Youth Reach going to do with him? He's aiming for medicine and seems like he may well get the points. There's nothing inherently damaging about focusing on something for a prolonged period of time.

    What he needs to understand is that medicine and most health sciences courses will be very intensive. His first year exams will be far more difficult than anything in the LC and if he's already pushing it to this level for the LC, I shudder to think what he will do this time next year when his term exams are looming.

    As for doing medicine for status and money, i'd be quite concerned. There is status and money but you work incredibly long and hard hours to get that money and working conditions are very poor in Ireland. It's not a career you'd survive in without a genuine interest in healthcare.


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    #15
    0byme75341jo28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭0byme75341jo28


    IncognitoX wrote: »
    This is a silly post, no offense. Why should someone who wants to do Medicine do a PLC or Youth Reach?

    And there is no need to restrict his study time that much. If he wants to get into Medicine, then a lot of study is required. However, the key is finding a solid balance between study and other activities, of which the OP's brother currently has none.

    There are numerous PLC courses which can lead to a successful career in medicine. This, for example. I have a cousin who did a similar course and is now working for a private hospital, Mater in fact, earning a decent wage and loving life. This is far preferable to going through the standard "CAO route" in my opinion. It's a pity so few people realise they can enter a career in medicine through a PLC course, it would save them a monumental amount of stress, and greatly reduce the risk of them suffering from mental ill health.


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    #16
    happywithlife
    Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭happywithlife


    Op it sounds as if he is very anxious over it. He does need to put in the hard graft but neither is it good to completely alienate himself. A balance needs to be struck.
    I'd get your parents to mention it to his teachers at the parent teacher meeting and set up a specific meeting with his year head and guidance teacher if there is one available. I've come across the odd over anxious student in my time and there are strategies you can put in place to help lessen that anxiety,
    If he continues at this rate there's a real chance of burn out long before he hits the exams in June


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    #17
    IncognitoX
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭IncognitoX


    Graysen Rancid Broom wrote: »
    There are numerous PLC courses which can lead to a successful career in medicine. [Link removed] for example. I have a cousin who did a similar course and is now working for a private hospital, Mater in fact, earning a decent wage and loving life. This is far preferable to going through the standard "CAO route" in my opinion. It's a pity so few people realise they can enter a career in medicine through a PLC course, it would save them a monumental amount of stress, and greatly reduce the risk of them suffering from mental ill health.

    I take it the OP's brother actually wants to be an MD though and not a medical secretary.


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    #18
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Graysen Rancid Broom wrote: »
    This, for example.

    :rolleyes:

    I'd be inclined to support him and not stress him out anymore by constantly reminding him he's gone into over kill.

    Offer to spend some time with him, but ultimately if he wants to put in the work let him.


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    #19
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Graysen Rancid Broom wrote: »
    There are numerous PLC courses which can lead to a successful career in medicine. This, for example. I have a cousin who did a similar course and is now working for a private hospital, Mater in fact, earning a decent wage and loving life. This is far preferable to going through the standard "CAO route" in my opinion. It's a pity so few people realise they can enter a career in medicine through a PLC course, it would save them a monumental amount of stress, and greatly reduce the risk of them suffering from mental ill health.

    You realise that course qualifies you to become a secretary not a doctor? Big difference. There are no PLCs that lead directly into Medicine. If there were students would already be doing them.

    OP, I think it might be worth trying to get your parents to sit down with your brother and have a chat with him. He does need to put in the hours to get the points for medicine, but he also needs a break, he doesn't want to burn out half way through sixth year. Even if they persuaded him to take a one hour break a day for a walk/ watch tv/ any distraction it would be a start.


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    #20
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,115 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I think this is more a PI issue than a Leaving Cert. one. I'd be quite concerned about him cutting himself off.


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    #21
    0byme75341jo28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭0byme75341jo28


    IncognitoX wrote: »
    I take it the OP's brother actually wants to be an MD though and not a medical secretary.

    It's a career in medicine. He could easily take up a job as a secretary in a clinic, and over the years gain enough experience and new skills to earn a promotion as an MD. Has he looked into JobBridge at all, OP? I know it gets a bad rap around these parts, but it is a very good way of learning new skills and finding employment in your favoured career path, keeping an open mind is paramount if you want him to be happy. He should not be getting so stressed out over the leaving cert, I know for certain that I didn't.


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    #22
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Graysen Rancid Broom wrote: »
    It's a career in medicine. He could easily take up a job as a secretary in a clinic, and over the years gain enough experience and new skills to earn a promotion as an MD. Has he looked into JobBridge at all, OP? I know it gets a bad rap around these parts, but it is a very good way of learning new skills and finding employment in your favoured career path, keeping an open mind is paramount if you want him to be happy. He should not be getting so stressed out over the leaving cert, I know for certain that I didn't.


    Now you're taking the piss. You cannot get a promotion from a secretary to a doctor just because you happen to work in a hospital.


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    #23
    Sclosages
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 489 ✭✭Sclosages


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Now you're taking the piss. You cannot get a promotion from a secretary to a doctor just because you happen to work in a hospital.
    ah you'd pick it up no bother.


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    #24
    DublinArnie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭DublinArnie


    If it takes minimum seven years of pure hard University education to become any sort of doctor - being promoted to one from office job by gaining experiences and skills will take a little over two hundred years.


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    #25
    SureYWouldntYa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,724 ✭✭✭SureYWouldntYa


    Sclosages wrote: »
    ah you'd pick it up no bother.

    sure it's who ya know not what ya know


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    #26
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,115 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Still, I take The Prince of Cumberland's point that too many people see Medicine as the only medicine-related possibility. There are thousands of equally rewarding roles in a hospital/medical setting, many as responsible and stressful as being a doctor, some paid only a fraction of what doctors make.

    I taught a lad once who left school with a Junior Cert. and ended up being responsible for repairing and maintaining some of the equipment in the operating theatres. He used to joke that the surgeons with all their education and money couldn't work unless he had done his job properly. He was right.

    Horses for courses.

    Anyway, that's all sort of off-topic. I hope the OP's brother gets some help.


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    #27
    Macavity.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Macavity.


    Thank you for the advice everyone. Unfortunately, things have only gotten worse over the last few days. This morning I got a phone call from my Mam saying that he had told our granny to fuck off! :( He wouldn't come down for dinner because he was studying. She shouted up "hello" to him and he got very mad, came out of the room and shouted "shut the fuck up". Understandably, she was quite upset. My parents had a big chat with him but he didn't seem to care at all. He's completely changed over the last few months, he used to be such a friendly outgoing person and has never caused much trouble.


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    #28
    SureYWouldntYa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,724 ✭✭✭SureYWouldntYa


    If he's at that he needs to cop on. Life does not equal leaving cert


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    #29
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Macavity. wrote: »
    Thank you for the advice everyone. Unfortunately, things have only gotten worse over the last few days. This morning I got a phone call from my Mam saying that he had told our granny to fuck off! :( He wouldn't come down for dinner because he was studying. She shouted up "hello" to him and he got very mad, came out of the room and shouted "shut the fuck up". Understandably, she was quite upset. My parents had a big chat with him but he didn't seem to care at all. He's completely changed over the last few months, he used to be such a friendly outgoing person and has never caused much trouble.

    Would it be worth your parents going into his school and having a chat with the principal to see how he is behaving there?

    He may want medicine but that behaviour is completely out of order. I'd be taking the bedroom door off the hinges if he is going to behave like that.


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    #30
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,115 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Macavity. wrote: »
    Thank you for the advice everyone. Unfortunately, things have only gotten worse over the last few days. This morning I got a phone call from my Mam saying that he had told our granny to fuck off! :( He wouldn't come down for dinner because he was studying. She shouted up "hello" to him and he got very mad, came out of the room and shouted "shut the fuck up". Understandably, she was quite upset. My parents had a big chat with him but he didn't seem to care at all. He's completely changed over the last few months, he used to be such a friendly outgoing person and has never caused much trouble.

    It all the study working out for him? Is he getting the marks he wants? Sometimes no amount of study will get someone very high marks. This can be really frustrating for someone who buys the 'just work hard and it will happen' nonsense.

    Is there any chance he is smoking or taking something? The aggression, if it's out of the blue is quite worrying.


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    #31
    Macavity.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Macavity.


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Would it be worth your parents going into his school and having a chat with the principal to see how he is behaving there?

    He may want medicine but that behaviour is completely out of order. I'd be taking the bedroom door off the hinges if he is going to behave like that.

    Yeah, my parents are very mad. The thing is he has no hobbies anymore and spends no time with friends. There isn't a lot they can do to punish him, and apart from that he's 17 (a grown man basically), he shouldn't be acting like that.

    Thanks, I'll suggest a meeting with the principal to them.
    spurious wrote: »
    It all the study working out for him? Is he getting the marks he wants? Sometimes no amount of study will get someone very high marks. This can be really frustrating for someone who buys the 'just work hard and it will happen' nonsense.

    Is there any chance he is smoking or taking something? The aggression, if it's out of the blue is quite worrying.

    He's doing well from what I can see. I reckon he'll get it with hard work, but three hours a night would be enough IMO. I don't think he's taking anything, but I guess you never know. It is worrying though, the behavior is very out of character.


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