LOI rumours etc

OhNoYouDidn't · 03-01-2011 3:25pm

Sligored wrote: »

You might explain this over 2k bonus that all shamrock rovers players will recieve if they lose every game next season- sounds a good motivational tool

Do I have to spell everything out for you yokels?

I was exaggerating for effect. There is no realistic scenario where his bonus at the end of the season would be less than a fair few multiples of the €2,000 extra he got in a counter offer. Yet he isn't interested in bonus, he wants less up front.

I that is the sum of his ambition, there is the door.

OhNoYouDidn't · 03-01-2011 3:27pm

Best rumour of the close season is that the Bowezzz may well pull it out of the bag and sell Dalyerto a publican and have it turned into a theme bar for the tourists.

The money will be enough to see them right, but its the end of the members club.

Anyone else hear this?

CiaranC · 03-01-2011 3:28pm

Moving to a win-bonus, incentivised wage structure makes perfect sense. The last nail in the coffin of the LOI players on the merry-go-round, happy to get paid for just turning up.

OhNoYouDidn't · 03-01-2011 3:31pm

CiaranC wrote: »

Moving to a win-bonus, incentivised wage structure makes perfect sense. The last nail in the coffin of the LOI players on the merry-go-round, happy to get paid for just turning up.

Exactly. And there will always be players who will cut off their noses to spite their faces, which he did here.

Its a pity, because I see him as the ideal replacement for Baker, but the financial stability of the club is the main thing.

bohsman · 03-01-2011 4:05pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Best rumour of the close season is that the Bowezzz may well pull it out of the bag and sell Dalyerto a publican and have it turned into a theme bar for the tourists.

The money will be enough to see them right, but its the end of the members club.

Anyone else hear this?

Sounds very familiar in a give it square kind of way.

Sligored · 03-01-2011 5:22pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I do too. But it was more that he didn't quite get the idea that €2,000 extra in basic salary was less than the bonus he would get if Rovers lose every game next season.

Sligored wrote: »

You might explain this over 2k bonus that all shamrock rovers players will recieve if they lose every game next season- sounds a good motivational tool

OhNoYouDidn't

Do I have to spell everything out for you yokels?

I was exaggerating for effect. There is no realistic scenario where his bonus at the end of the season would be less than a fair few multiples of the €2,000 extra he got in a counter offer. Yet he isn't interested in bonus, he wants less up front.

I that is the sum of his ambition, there is the door.

is there any need for the name calling - i was just querying your reply.
Exaggeration for effect - its a trait of many hoops fans.

djpbarry · 03-01-2011 5:51pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I was exaggerating for effect. There is no realistic scenario where his bonus at the end of the season would be less than a fair few multiples of the €2,000 extra he got in a counter offer. Yet he isn't interested in bonus, he wants less up front.

So you’re having a go at a player for opting for guaranteed income over anticipated bonuses?

Oh the hypocrisy....

I get the distinct impression that Rovers (fans, or elements thereof) think they can offer any player whatever the hell they want and said player should be eternally grateful that such an illustrious club has even shown interest, never mind offered a contract. I mean, how dare he opt for a better offer elsewhere. How very dare he.

OhNoYouDidn't · 03-01-2011 6:05pm

djpbarry wrote: »

So you’re having a go at a player for opting for guaranteed income over anticipated bonuses?

But the point is that the bonuses he could expect to earn, even if Rovers have a dire season, are far more than the extra €50 a week.

djpbarry wrote: »

I get the distinct impression that Rovers (fans, or elements thereof) think they can offer any player whatever the hell they want and said player should be eternally grateful that such an illustrious club has even shown interest, never mind offered a contract. I mean, how dare he opt for a better offer elsewhere. How very dare he.

What you should have the impression of is that we will not go the same way as the previous 4 champions and throw stupid money at players. If you want to play for Rovers you will get a performance related contract. Win, score goals, keep clean sheets, and you will earn much more than the competitors are offering. But forget about getting thousands a week up front with no incentives.

If he thinks €50 a week is a better offer than potentially €50,000 in bonus, then he and Rovers are not a match for each other.

But don't patronise us by saying Rovers are trying to stiff him here.

CiaranC · 03-01-2011 7:10pm

djpbarry wrote: »

I get the distinct impression that Rovers (fans, or elements thereof) think they can offer any player whatever the hell they want and said player should be eternally grateful that such an illustrious club has even shown interest, never mind offered a contract.

We will offer players deals on our terms, if they dont like it they cant piss off and we'll get someone else without it causing us much bother. We operated this way the last two seasons also, and came 2nd and 1st in the League respectively, so its hardly to our detriment.

And yes, the draw of playing in front of big crowds, in Dublin, in a great stadium, in the Champions League qualifiers and challenging for all trophies is a draw for the players, whether you like it or not.

djpbarry · 03-01-2011 7:29pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

What you should have the impression of is that we will not go the same way as the previous 4 champions and throw stupid money at players.

An extra €50 a week is hardly “stupid money”.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

If he thinks €50 a week is a better offer than potentially €50,000 in bonus, then he and Rovers are not a match for each other.

The key word there is ‘potentially’. You don’t know what his personal circumstances are – maybe a guaranteed €50 per week is much more attractive than a potential € x at the end of the season. And under what circumstances could a Rovers player expect a bonus of 50 grand?

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But don't patronise us by saying Rovers are trying to stiff him here.

You’re the one doing the patronising – you’re dismissing him as lacking ambition simply because he turned down Rovers, as if playing for Rovers should be the height of any player’s ambition. I suppose Conor Kenna lacks ambition because he had the audacity to re-sign for Pats (who are hardly offering “stupid money”) instead of opting for Rovers?

CiaranC wrote: »

And yes, the draw of playing in front of big crowds, in Dublin, in a great stadium, in the Champions League qualifiers and challenging for all trophies is a draw for the players, whether you like it or not.

Rovers are not the only show in town, whether you like to admit it or not.

CiaranC · 03-01-2011 7:33pm

djpbarry wrote: »

Rovers are not the only show in town, whether you like to admit it or not.

Of course not. We are the best show in town though, which is a draw for players

Pineapple stu · 03-01-2011 7:34pm

Whats your idea of a big crowd ciaran ?

_blank_ · 03-01-2011 7:41pm

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Whats your idea of a big crowd ciaran ?

Bigger than the one in Morton the last few seasons anyway

Sligored · 03-01-2011 7:41pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But the point is that the bonuses he could expect to earn, even if Rovers have a dire season, are far more than the extra €50 a week.

What you should have the impression of is that we will not go the same way as the previous 4 champions and throw stupid money at players. If you want to play for Rovers you will get a performance related contract. Win, score goals, keep clean sheets, and you will earn much more than the competitors are offering. But forget about getting thousands a week up front with no incentives.

If he thinks €50 a week is a better offer than potentially €50,000 in bonus, then he and Rovers are not a match for each other.

But don't patronise us by saying Rovers are trying to stiff him here.

Where will this 50k bonus per player fit into the budget and the 65% rule?

Sligored · 03-01-2011 7:48pm

CiaranC wrote: »

Moving to a win-bonus, incentivised wage structure makes perfect sense. The last nail in the coffin of the LOI players on the merry-go-round, happy to get paid for just turning up.

Brilliant idea -Where were you for the last 10 years when our economy was going down the tubes.:P

CiaranC · 03-01-2011 7:59pm

Sligored wrote: »

Brilliant idea -Where were you for the last 10 years when our economy was going down the tubes.:P

We need to move on from the FF/Sligo Rovers brown envelope style economics

Ebbs · 03-01-2011 8:10pm

Sligored wrote: »

Where will this 50k bonus per player fit into the budget and the 65% rule?

Rovers players have a considerly low average basic wages, the majority of their wages are bonus'. This includes appearence, goal, clean sheet, win, etc. The more the club makes...the more the players make. If they lose every game and the crowds dwindle we shall stay near the 65% rule based on paying players considerably less.

As for the 50k, thats a bit of an exaduration I would imagine, however the cumlative bonuses gained through out the course of the season, along with the additional champions league pay day and the potenial of winning the league, cup, setanta, champions league :P, etc may indeed push 50k, along with their basic wage.

darsar · 03-01-2011 8:14pm

50k in bonuses, is he on drugs or just a different planet. A million quid for a squad bonus!

darsar · 03-01-2011 8:17pm

And how can you fault a man that has a garaunteed wage through bad form or injury for 52 weeks over the other offer??

Ebbs · 03-01-2011 8:33pm

darsar wrote: »

50k in bonuses, is he on drugs or just a different planet. A million quid for a squad bonus!

Once again, 50k is an exaduration.

And the bonuses are not going to be squad wide....obviously. Considering not every player can be on the pitch, score every goal together, be in goal keeping a clean sheet etc.

Lets say Twigg gets a 200 euro goal bonus and a 50 euro appearence fee.. 30 goals a season and 40 games is 8000. Along with win bonuses, cup bonus, etc..well you can where the bonuses are adding up to.

antomorro-sei · 03-01-2011 8:37pm

CiaranC wrote: »

Of course not. We are the best show in town though, which is a draw for players

I'd say the MON factor takes away from you lot being the best show in town. Like realistically, any player who meets with MON, Mahon/Gill and Buckley and gets offered similar enough contracts is gonna have a tough job deciding.

darsar · 03-01-2011 8:40pm

Ebbs wrote: »

Once again, 50k is an exaduration.

And the bonuses are not going to be squad wide....obviously. Considering not every player can be on the pitch, score every goal together, be in goal keeping a clean sheet etc.

Lets say Twigg gets a 200 euro goal bonus and a 50 euro appearence fee.. 30 goals a season and 40 games is 8000. Along with win bonuses, cup bonus, etc..well you can where the bonuses are adding up to.

And let's say if he reaccurs a god forbidden groin injury, which he has had the last few years, he won't get appearance, goals and whatever other bonus.

With a one year old kid and wife and house I know what offer I'd be taking.

dreamers75 · 03-01-2011 8:49pm

Sligored wrote: »

Where will this 50k bonus per player fit into the budget and the 65% rule?

Expenses.

Sligored · 03-01-2011 8:53pm

darsar wrote: »

And let's say if he reaccurs a god forbidden groin injury, which he has had the last few years, he won't get appearance, goals and whatever other bonus.

With a one year old kid and wife and house I know what offer I'd be taking.

At least he will still get his 2k champions league participation bonus...well deserved too.

The model club has ingeniously designed a new performance based bonus scheme....why did no-one else think of that???????

Ebbs · 03-01-2011 8:57pm

darsar wrote: »

And let's say if he reaccurs a god forbidden groin injury, which he has had the last few years, he won't get appearance, goals and whatever other bonus.

With a one year old kid and wife and house I know what offer I'd be taking.

In this situation there was a 50€ a week change, assuming thats based on 52 weeks a year thats an extra 2600 a year

2600 euro a year vs incentives, I know Id want to ensure my family are well looked after rather than a measily amount.

Squad bonuses such as league/cup win are squad wide...so even if injured the whole season...he'd be getting probally be making up that 2.6k on generic bonuses.

shanec1928 · 03-01-2011 9:05pm

hes dead right to take the money he is guaranteed rather proposed bonuses

darsar · 03-01-2011 9:06pm

Ebbs wrote: »

In this situation there was a 50€ a week change, assuming thats based on 52 weeks a year thats an extra 2600 a year

2600 euro a year vs incentives, I know Id want to ensure my family are well looked after rather than a measily amount.

Squad bonuses such as league/cup win are squad wide...so even if injured the whole season...he'd be getting probally be making up that 2.6k on generic bonuses.

I can't imagine a player not playing a game in the league cup will get a share of the bonus. The winning of that cup is like €12000 to the club is it not so I doubt the bonus be too good. Gary O'Neill has never nor never will score 30 goals in one season and i wouldn't think he'd play 40 games in one season so the bonuses are dwindling more and more.

I still don't see the argument for being paid 42 weeks of the year with some 'maybe bonuses to come' versus getting more basic wage 52 weeks hail, rain or shine*.

*assumes Fingal secure financial situation

CiaranC · 03-01-2011 9:07pm

antomorro-sei wrote: »

I'd say the MON factor takes away from you lot being the best show in town. Like realistically, any player who meets with MON, Mahon/Gill and Buckley and gets offered similar enough contracts is gonna have a tough job deciding.

The MON factor?

O'Neill came into the league from the outside, saw the sort of money that the players were on, and when he stopped breaking his bollox laughing six weeks later, said he wasnt having any of it.

This is why we hired him, and he has been a brilliant success. Hes a good man manager, and the only fall-outs he's had are with players who think its still 2004 when looking for money (hello Barry Murphy). These were shown the door. As a Rovers fan, I am delighted with this, as Im sure Pats fans were at the prudent reversal of big-spending that avoided sending their own club into a Bohs type scenario a couple of seasons back.

Ebbs · 03-01-2011 9:17pm

darsar wrote: »

I can't imagine a player not playing a game in the league cup will get a share of the bonus. The winning of that cup is like €12000 to the club is it not so I doubt the bonus be too good. Gary O'Neill has never nor never will score 30 goals in one season and i wouldn't think he'd play 40 games in one season so the bonuses are dwindling more and more.

I still don't see the argument for being paid 42 weeks of the year with some 'maybe bonuses to come' versus getting more basic wage 52 weeks hail, rain or shine*.

*assumes Fingal secure financial situation

I was refering to the league and/or cups.

Em... He doesnt need to score 30 goals or play 40 games to earn 2600. I dont know what he was offered but lets say he was going to get 200 euro a goal..he'd only need 13 goals a season to match the offer. He scored 11 this season so not a big push. He made 28 appearences this season...lets say he gets 50 euro appearence bonus....and game win bonus... oh and assist bonus... oh right and ye the european bonus...and the potential of league and cup win bonus.

Now can you see why perhaps we are questioning his ambition?

djpbarry · 03-01-2011 9:27pm

Sligored wrote: »

The model club has ingeniously designed a new performance based bonus scheme....why did no-one else think of that???????

I'm sure plenty of clubs have toyed with the idea. The problem is, if your squad's salary is heavily dependent on performance and you don’t know what the bill is going to come to at the end of the season, putting together a reliable budget is going to be extremely difficult.

CiaranC · 03-01-2011 9:33pm

djpbarry wrote: »

I'm sure plenty of clubs have toyed with the idea. The problem is, if your squad's salary is heavily dependent on performance and you don’t know what the bill is going to come to at the end of the season, putting together a reliable budget is going to be extremely difficult.

Not really. Assuming the clubs know what the prize-money will be ahead of time, they can simply structure the bonuses accordingly to be a percentage, with a few percentage points for wiggle room. No harder than any other budget. Helps that the manager is a qualified, experienced chartered accountant.

stovelid · 03-01-2011 9:36pm

darsar wrote: »

I still don't see the argument for being paid 42 weeks of the year with some 'maybe bonuses to come' versus getting more basic wage 52 weeks hail, rain or shine*.

Ask one of two of Bohs signings last season how that works out in practice.

darsar · 03-01-2011 9:43pm

Ebbs wrote: »

I was refering to the league and/or cups.

Em... He doesnt need to score 30 goals or play 40 games to earn 2600. I dont know what he was offered but lets say he was going to get 200 euro a goal..he'd only need 13 goals a season to match the offer. He scored 11 this season so not a big push. He made 28 appearences this season...lets say he gets 50 euro appearence bonus....and game win bonus... oh and assist bonus... oh right and ye the european bonus...and the potential of league and cup win bonus.

Now can you see why perhaps we are questioning his ambition?

There's no way, ambition or no ambition I'd go over Christmas not having a wage come in the bank when there is an offer to have.

I'd say with the ten weeks of no pay and the €50 weekly less you're talking a difference of €10k come this time next year. There will not be any player recording a €10k bonus no matter how many cups or competions won or lost.

darsar · 03-01-2011 9:44pm

stovelid wrote: »

Ask one of two of Bohs signings last season how that works out in practice.

You removed to * meaning.

stovelid · 03-01-2011 9:50pm

darsar wrote: »

You removed to * meaning.

The assumption about finances is actually the clincher and should be the main consideration. Not sure why anybody would opt for a 52-week contract with a company that was in obvious financial difficulties?

antomorro-sei · 03-01-2011 9:52pm

CiaranC wrote: »

The MON factor?

hunter164 · 04-01-2011 12:24am

S.R.F.C. wrote: »

****s sake if Inter Milan doesn't motivate him then auld Pete will have a tough job!

Is he still with the bird? hahaha

dreamers75 · 04-01-2011 12:53am

antomorro-sei wrote: »

Same dude they chanted " Out" at numerous times this season.

Rovers have uncovered the genius ploy of paying players on performance related bonuses, english clubs tried this quite a lot.

I did a thesis on this for my management degree and found out stuff. Fair few english clubs tried this too and gave me their findings as an aside.

Pineapple stu · 04-01-2011 1:15am

Des wrote: »

Bigger than the one in Morton the last few seasons anyway

I knew some gob****e would post something like that. Well done you, must have took you ages to come up with that nutmeg.

djpbarry · 04-01-2011 1:49am

CiaranC wrote: »

Assuming the clubs know what the prize-money will be ahead of time, they can simply structure the bonuses accordingly to be a percentage, with a few percentage points for wiggle room.

Yes, easy enough to account for club prize money, but we’re being told that Rovers players get paid for every successful kick of a ball. We’re also being led to believe that Rovers’ fringe players are happy enough to pick up a Mars bar and a packet of Tayto at the end of a week’s work, while Gary Twigg gets a new yacht for every shot on target.

SantryRed · 04-01-2011 2:37am

Pineapple stu wrote: »

I knew some gob****e would post something like that. Well done you, must have took you ages to come up with that nutmeg.

Are your money problems getting to you?

iregk · 04-01-2011 11:05am

Good god lads can we not have a discussion about rumours of people going here or there without the eventual **** slinging?

You all moan about people not getting into the LOI is it any wonder when they have this crap to deal with?

super_furry · 04-01-2011 11:08am

iregk wrote: »

Good god lads can we not have a discussion about rumours of people going here or there without the eventual **** slinging?

You all moan about people not getting into the LOI is it any wonder when they have this crap to deal with?

You think if there was a single, unified English Premier League rumour thread it wouldn't be worse? The fact that fans of rival clubs bicker and argue should not be a surprise and to blame it for people ignoring the League is short-sighted and lazy.

djpbarry · 04-01-2011 11:19am

iregk wrote: »

Good god lads can we not have a discussion about rumours of people going here or there without the eventual **** slinging?

You all moan about people not getting into the LOI is it any wonder when they have this crap to deal with?

Banter: Good humoured, playful, typically spontaneous conversation; To engage in banter or playful conversation; To play or do something amusing; To tease mildly.

stovelid · 04-01-2011 11:33am

My wife (who wouldn't know a great deal about football) just texted to say she heard on the radio that "Beckham might be coming to Rovers" which means I'm well chuffed so shut the bickering you lot.

Paulw · 04-01-2011 11:35am

stovelid wrote: »

My wife (who wouldn't know a great deal about football) just texted to say she heard on the radio that "Beckham might be coming to Rovers" which means I'm well chuffed so shut the bickering you lot.

Now that would be a coup.

But, maybe it's Sligo Rovers he's going to? :eek:

super_furry · 04-01-2011 11:36am

Great news, we've been short on a real world class preening primadonna since the Beach Boy left.

iregk · 04-01-2011 11:41am

super_furry wrote: »

You think if there was a single, unified English Premier League rumour thread it wouldn't be worse? The fact that fans of rival clubs bicker and argue should not be a surprise and to blame it for people ignoring the League is short-sighted and lazy.

I'm not saying its the only reason people ignore the league and yes there is banter and what not in the premier league thread when it comes to transfer rumours.

Saying a player is lacking ambition and what not is fair enough but the **** that goes on here goes beyond banter. One player doesn't want to move to club a within two pages its descended into an argument over under the counter payments, not declaring this or that, breaking league rules etc... Most/almost all of that is not banter!

I've no problem having a good ding dong with rival fans and have done on these pages with plenty of pats and bohs fans in the past. I'm just saying we don't do ourselves any favours though tearing into clubs that have a good structure or completely ignoring your clubs short comings. Thats short sighted!

stovelid · 04-01-2011 11:42am

There's even a flagship Heatons store in the Square for Victoria and there are dozens of young twats in the Square with manky hairstyles for the kids to hang around with when Becks is training.

OhNoYouDidn't · 04-01-2011 12:04pm

darsar wrote: »

There's no way, ambition or no ambition I'd go over Christmas not having a wage come in the bank when there is an offer to have.

I'd say with the ten weeks of no pay and the €50 weekly less you're talking a difference of €10k come this time next year. There will not be any player recording a €10k bonus no matter how many cups or competions won or lost.

Both Rovers and Fingal are offering 40 week contracts. With Rovers you can payroll that over 52 weeks if you want.

With Rovers he would get his bonus in his final pay check at the end of the season, so assuming we had the same season we had last year, the title, a cup final and one round through Europe, and he played 25 games and scored 10 goals, he would be looking at the region of €30,000 in bonus.

It appears he would prefer €50 a week up front.

And that is fine, but its not the culture of incentivisation we are trying to instill at Rovers.

LOI rumours etc

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