Capel street bike stand

errlloyd · 15-07-2012 1:10am #1

Motors doesn't seem to have a "bitch/rant/moan thread" but if it did I would post this in it.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/07/14/new-bike-stand-capel-street-dublin/#comment-223603

Does anyone else find everything about this needlessly confrontational. Its specifically designed to take up a parking space, designed like a car, presumably to make a joke at drivers expense.

I just think its damn immature.

omb0wyn5ehpij9 · 15-07-2012 1:38am

errlloyd wrote: »

Motors doesn't seem to have a "bitch/rant/moan thread" but if it did I would post this in it.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/07/14/new-bike-stand-capel-street-dublin/#comment-223603

Does anyone else find everything about this needlessly confrontational. Its specifically designed to take up a parking space, designed like a car, presumably to make a joke at drivers expense.

I just think its damn immature.

I think you need to relax a bit! There is nothin confrontational about it. They are just trying to get people to cycle instead of using their car....

mickdw · 15-07-2012 1:43am

Not very efficient use of space. How many bikes can it handle?
Is it bolted in place?

Mycroft H · 15-07-2012 2:12am

Proper designed bike locking racks are often more secure then locking your bike to the lamp post/railing etc. Its nice to see something like that. From a quick look your getting decent parking for 8-10 bicycles there.

johndoc · 15-07-2012 2:22am

How about this for a betaproject? Put some cyclelanes in place so I can get to the stupid artform bike parking pet project wanker bike station without trusting my life to dodgy line markings and lanes too narrow for two bikes never mind a car/lorry and me.
Is there a wine & cheese event organised to mark the occasion of the delivery of this piece of carp?
Bring back the celtic tiger and the non-stop planning applications to get these betaproject committee tools busy again

johndoc · 15-07-2012 2:25am

BX 19 wrote: »

Proper designed bike locking racks are often more secure then locking your bike to the lamp post/railing etc. Its nice to see something like that. From a quick look your getting decent parking for 8-10 bicycles there.

On google maps, turn 180 and move 200m back up Capel Street. A fine example of where Dublin CC could have provided somewhere to lock several bikes and instead went with the trusty 3ft tall traffic bollard

https://maps.google.com/?ll=53.347983,-6.268601&spn=0.001848,0.005284&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.347884,-6.268567&panoid=GHEX18_jozVeuo1UmZ4R6A&cbp=12,18.05,,0,-0.09

Veloce · 15-07-2012 2:36am

I wonder how long your bicycle would last parked on Capel St before it would get nicked. Not long I'd imagine.

doopa · 15-07-2012 3:02am

I like it. Its a fun way of trying to make a point. Why do you think its trying to make fun of drivers - most cyclists are also drivers?

What would you suggest instead?

Jimbob 83 · 15-07-2012 10:49am

OP needs to chill, 8+ bikes taking up the space of 1 car seems reasonable

coolbeans · 15-07-2012 11:00am

errlloyd wrote: »

Motors doesn't seem to have a "bitch/rant/moan thread" but if it did I would post this in it.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/07/14/new-bike-stand-capel-street-dublin/#comment-223603

Does anyone else find everything about this needlessly confrontational. Its specifically designed to take up a parking space, designed like a car, presumably to make a joke at drivers expense.

I just think its damn immature.

You're very sensitive.

eqwjewoiujqorj · 15-07-2012 12:05pm

Imagine a couple of hundred of these around the city.

What you'd think of them then?

I think if you asked cyclists what's their greatest concern, it wouldn't be a place to park their bike.
Sure they wouldn't say no to extra spaces, but there is no need to put them in a car parking space.

What does putting this in a car parking space achieve that wouldn't have been achieved by putting bars parallel to the foot path on the edge of the path, like they do elsewhere.?
(Maybe not on this particular narrow stretch of the path, but further up the street.)

Are the bikes safer?
Will more people leave their cars at home and start commuting by bike?

Also, it looks like the bars can only be accessed by the narrow foot path.
Bit of a pain in the hole for everybody involved.

I'm pro cycling but this is a gimmick and an eyesore.

Anan1 · 15-07-2012 12:49pm

eqwjewoiujqorj wrote: »

What does putting this in a car parking space achieve that wouldn't have been achieved by putting bars parallel to the foot path on the edge of the path, like they do elsewhere.?
(Maybe not on this particular narrow stretch of the path, but further up the street.)

It makes people think, and it encourages debate.

eqwjewoiujqorj · 15-07-2012 1:08pm

Anan1 wrote: »

It makes people think, and it encourages debate.

If this thinking and debating is just an end in itself, then this is an art insulation.

On the other hand if it's to get people to think and debate to affect change, then what is that change?

ie What are they hoping to achieve?

doopa · 15-07-2012 1:13pm

eqwjewoiujqorj wrote: »

If this thinking and debating is just an end in itself, then this is an art insulation.

On the other hand if it's to get people to think and debate to affect change, then what is that change?

ie What are they hoping to achieve?

I'd settle for it being an art installation that meets a need...

but they do also say that the number of parking spaces required in the summer months increases therefore they want/need to install more spaces. Doing it this way makes a point about use of space in a way that is very visually accessible and quick. So the change is - we need more parking in the summer cf winter - this is a nice way of achieving that.

Anan1 · 15-07-2012 1:15pm

eqwjewoiujqorj wrote: »

If this thinking and debating is just an end in itself, then this is an art insulation.

Art is never an end in itself, the whole point is to make us think about who we are and what we do.

eqwjewoiujqorj wrote: »

On the other hand if it's to get people to think and debate to affect change, then what is that change?

ie What are they hoping to achieve?

That's what you're meant to think and talk about.

eqwjewoiujqorj · 15-07-2012 1:31pm

Anan1 wrote: »

Art is never an end in itself, the whole point is to make us think about who we are and what we do.

That's what you're meant to think and talk about.

Exactly, art doesn't have to have a practical application.

Well, I've thought about it and I don't think it achieves anything positive.

If we visit this thread in a year's time, what will have changed because of this?

The city council should be doing practical things for cyclists, motorists and public transport users.

for example:
fixing potholes,
more contra flow cycle lanes
keeping cycle lanes clean,
more cycle traffic lights
ect

My point is we have been thinking and debating about these things for years.
People know what they want and what the problems are, this yoke is not going to change anything.

Anan1 · 15-07-2012 1:43pm

eqwjewoiujqorj wrote: »

Exactly, art doesn't have to have a practical application.

Well, I've thought about it and I don't think it achieves anything positive.

If we visit this thread in a year's time, what will have changed because of this?

Making people think is a practical application, because it changes how people behave. This thread is proof of the success of the bike stand.

pete4130 · 15-07-2012 1:59pm

DCC don't want more cars in an already congested city. Cities around the world don't want more cars in their congested cities. Dublin is unfortunate to be a very old city with a lay out that predates urban and town planning so congestion and bottle necks are in its nature. In years to come cities will push to get cars out of the city.

London for example with its congestion charge is a prime example. Or Sydney, where city centre parking can be up to $52 (about €40 p/h) to discourage cars into the city.
Take Tokyo as another example where if a journey takes over 50 minutes then the easiest and fastest way it by bicycle.
Imagine you had to pay €12 for the privilege to come inside the Royal Canal and Grand Canal areas? I don't think you'd worry too much about a space being removed.

Cyclist are tax payers too and are entitled to have somewhere to park their bikes. Bikes improperly locked to poles can fall down and can leave DCC liable if someone trips and breaks a bone because no proper facilities were provided.

Raising awareness of bicycles, despite what your opinion on cyclists might be is a positive thing.

The more parking spaces provided, the more/better roads that are built means more people availing of them and adding to the congestion.

If the DCC had a portacabin there for roadworks you wouldn't bat an eyelid at it taking up a parking space. It seems you have more of an issue with cyclists than losing a parking space?

eqwjewoiujqorj · 15-07-2012 2:00pm

Anan1 wrote: »

Making people think is a practical application, because it changes how people behave. This thread is proof of the success of the bike stand.

People think all the time but they don't necessarily change how they behave.

And I don't see how this thread has proved that the bike stand has changed anyone's behavior.

The people who decided to have this stand erected may want to affect change - what is that change?

It's not good enough to say it's to get people to 'think', as I've stated up thread we've been thinking and debating these issues for years.

This is one stand, on one street, in one city.

It won't be changing anything.

It's a gimmick.

errlloyd · 15-07-2012 2:19pm

OP Here.

Didn't realise when I posted it the stand was meant to be seasonal. Like seasonal stands is probably a pretty good idea. But rather than just put the stand there and expect people to read the accompanying flyer, they should try add some sort of slogan to it to emphasis the idea is to make people cycle when the weather is (theoretically good).

I still feel the shape is specifically designed to provoke. People here argued it was successful in provoking a debate, which is a reasonable argument. But when you're late for work, or for a meeting and you desperately need somewhere to park, it isn't the right time for a debate. Realistically the space would be taken anyway, but sure thats not how you see it.

Question to cyclists.

Is bike parking actually a problem in Dublin seasonally?

Follow up question.

Can we replace some bike stands with car parks in the winter?

eqwjewoiujqorj · 15-07-2012 2:34pm

pete4130 wrote: »

DCC don't want more cars in an already congested city.
Cities around the world don't want more cars in their congested cities.
Dublin is unfortunate to be a very old city with a lay out that predates urban and town planning so congestion and bottle necks are in its nature. In years to come cities will push to get cars out of the city.

There will always be cars / vans / buses in Dublin city center.
People need to get from A to B, business have deliveries.
What may happen is cars might be shared like the bike scheme.
Cars like the The Hiriko Fold

pete4130 wrote: »

London for example with its congestion charge is a prime example.
Or Sydney, where city centre parking can be up to €42 (€42 ($52)) (about €40 p/h) to discourage cars into the city.
Take Tokyo as another example where if a journey takes over 50 minutes then the easiest and fastest way it by bicycle.
Imagine you had to pay €12 for the privilege to come inside the Royal Canal and Grand Canal areas?
I don't think you'd worry too much about a space being removed.

I've no problem with parking spaces being removed.
If fact remove all of Capel St parking and place cycling lanes on each side.
Removing one parking space and placing a few cycling stands is just a gimmick that will change nothing.

pete4130 wrote: »

Cyclist are tax payers too and are entitled to have somewhere to park their bikes.
Bikes improperly locked to poles can fall down and can leave DCC liable if someone trips and breaks a bone because no proper facilities were provided.

Very true, but it doesn't necessaryily follow that extra bike stands have to be placed in one parking spot.

pete4130 wrote: »

Raising awareness of bicycles, despite what your opinion on cyclists might be is a positive thing.

I'm not sure the problem for cyclists is awareness!
I've cycled around Dublin and the main problems are sharing lanes with buses, pot holes, non-cycling traffic lights, few contra flow cycle lanes, cars parking in cycle lanes.
But we know all this and I don't see this stand doing anything to help.

pete4130 wrote: »

The more parking spaces provided, the more/better roads that are built means more people availing of them and adding to the congestion.

If the DCC had a portacabin there for roadworks you wouldn't bat an eyelid at it taking up a parking space.
It seems you have more of an issue with cyclists than losing a parking space?

I'm not sure it's me you are referring to but if it is, you haven't proved you point with that post.

I just believe this bike stand to be a gimmick that will not change anything.

Elmar Fudd · 16-07-2012 6:34pm

Capel St is my fave place to leave the bike in D1. It's just on the edge of the centre so I can walk the rest of the way (because I don't like to cycle near crowds or trams) but no geezer is going to lock his bike to an attention-seeking barbie-pink stand. It's just not cricket. I always use the stainless steel stands near McQuillan's tools. There are 6 stands there and always a few unoccupied. They are your only man on Capel Street.

dr.fuzzenstein · 16-07-2012 9:22pm

Will that car-shaped stand get a ticket for non-payment of parking fees?:cool:

deandean · 16-07-2012 11:39pm

I am both a motorist and a cyclist around dublin, i have yet to be stuck for a cycle parking space although sometimes it's not as close to destination as i'd like.
That stand reminds me of something that w@nker Keegan would come up with, he cycled around while using his authority to make life a misery for motorists, then he went to dun laoghaire and made life even more of a misery for motorists there while businesses are closing all around there 'cos shoppers are fed up of the parking regime.
/rant. Feel better now.

cram1971 · 17-07-2012 12:05am

Stick a clamp on it

Capel street bike stand

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