It's my party.... or is it?

takun · 11-02-2011 11:02pm #1

Another recent thread talked a little about alternative funerals, and it brought back to my mind something I've been grappling with on and off for quite a while now. Should I, and have I the right, to dictate the type of funeral I want?

Some background.

I was diagnosed with cancer a few years ago, and while I am grand again now, it was far from clear at the time that I would be and it did bring thoughts about death to the fore.

I am atheist, have been for almost as long as I can remember. Brought up Catholic, by a quite religious father (still living) and a not so religious mother (now deceased). When I became convinced that I was an atheist at about 15, I did not hide it and my parents were great, let me leave the convent school I was attending and move to an multi-denominational one where I felt more comfortable. My dad was not thrilled, but went with the flow.

My partner while not religious in the sense of practising religion, does believe is some sort of deity (though if pressed has a problem defining what that means to him) and because family is very important to him falls in with the ways of his quite Catholic family when with them.

We have a son, who is not baptised and my partner was fine about this, on the basis that he could make up his own mind when old enough. I did agree to sort of go along with things like the odd night time prayer and to let my partner talk to him about god without saying much/anything. I kept to this. He is 14 now, and definitely has no belief in any kind of god - he is an extreme skeptic in general. I think he absorbed it form me TBH, but it started early. I remember when he was about 8 he copped on that there was no Santa - came to me and said 'There isn't a Santa, I know that. So I suppose that means God isn't real either is he?' I just made a sort of 'Who knows?' answer.

Anyway, so much for all that.

When I was ill, I began to think about funerals (yeah, I know, cheery stuff). I don't want the whole religious thing, and I said so. In all honesty I'd be happy to be put in a cardboard box and straight into the fire, but I appreciate that ritual is important for those left behind and and told my partner that I wanted a humanist funeral and wanted to add that wish to my will.

To my surprise, he was really very upset about this. He felt it was disrespectful to my father and to his family (who are my son's family too) who would not accept this as a 'proper' funeral. In the heel of the hunt he admitted that it would not be a proper funeral to him either, and that he was a also a little upset that I had not 'come back to God' now that I was ill. I was quite taken aback. Anyway, those are hard conversations, and I was sick, so we really did not pursue it. Then I got better, so it was just left there, hanging.

But I still think about it all from time to time.

One part of me says I really don't want to be taken into a church I've never attended for a ceremony I don't believe, even in a box.

Another part of me says that who cares? I'll be dead - it won't be about me any more really, and if it helps those I leave behind, what's the harm?

Another part then thinks of my son, who now knows my beliefs - I would not like to think of him believing after I was gone that my beliefs were not honestly and completely held.

And then hopefully he will be a lot older then, and I wonder will he care, or see it too as something that comforts other people and ok on that basis?

What to think? Do? I'd love to know if other people have thought about this, and how you handled it.

Sorry - I didn't have any idea how long this got :O

Dades · 11-02-2011 11:19pm

At this moment of my life, I think I'd let my missis decide as if I was to pop it would be a bit traumatic. :pac:

As time moves on though I really would like to make sure no religious bits were involved.

Beruthiel · 11-02-2011 11:27pm

takun wrote: »

What to think? Do? I'd love to know if other people have thought about this, and how you handled it.

I'm quite outspoken in my home as to my thoughts on religion, so my hubby and daughter know not to bring me anywhere near a church when I kick the bucket. That's fine, neither of them are religious, so there's no conflict.

Personally, I feel this is a persons last wish.
If someone tells me how they want their send off to be, that's what will be done, it's the last thing they will ever ask of me, why would I not do it their way?

As for it being disrespectful to your family, piffle.
My parents are very religious and would probably shake their heads and pray for my sorry, lost soul. I bet they would even get a mass said for me on the sly! But, they will still go along with what I would have wanted funeral wise.

If you have to choose between your son and father, your father is a grown adult and will take it. Doing it your way might make it easier on your son as he would know you went the way you wanted to. I'd be inclined to lean towards that.

Stay well.

Morag · 11-02-2011 11:28pm

Well it depends.

If you are an athiest and believe that all that is left behind is now your slowly decaying corpse, which your next of kin are responsible for, then funerals are for the living, those who are brefiet due to your passing and let them see what comfort and solace they can.

If you are agnostic or belive in the soul and that religious rites can effect your soul
and what happens next then I would be damn stringant about making sure ther were no rite preformed for/on you.

Beruthiel · 11-02-2011 11:32pm

Dades wrote: »

At this moment of my life, I think I'd let my missis decide as if I was to pop it would be a bit traumatic.

I see it the other way. It's such a traumatic time, so if you had laid out in detail exactly what you wanted in a list form of some description, it would make the whole process so much easier to handle for your next of kin.

Morag · 11-02-2011 11:42pm

In fairness you can have it pre arranged with the humanist soc but all it takes is one person meddling..... then again I have said I will come back to haunt people if the birdie song is not played.

Dades · 11-02-2011 11:51pm

Beruthiel wrote: »

I see it the other way. It's such a traumatic time, so if you had laid out in detail exactly what you wanted in a list form of some description, it would make the whole process so much easier to handle for your next of kin.

Hmmm, I don't think its the logistics they'd find traumatic - more the constant subtle message of a humanist funeral that they'll never, ever see me again.

Coriolanus · 11-02-2011 11:52pm

To be honest, I don't care really. I know what I'd prefer, just a simple cremation and scattering of the ashes at a certain place, simply because that's what would be meaningful for me, but if I die tomorrow and there does happen to be an afterlife, I'm not going to be throwing stones from on top a cloud if my family ignored my wishes and gave me a church funeral.

The way I see it, either I'm dead and I'm dead so it doesn't matter even a little bit or I'm dead and there's an afterlife, in which case I'll probably have more interesting things to be doing than obsessing about what my family is up to.

axer · 12-02-2011 12:08am

Not that it matters when you are dead but I would trust that my wife would respect my wishes. I think of this more as a trust thing that even with me not here that I know I can trust her to do as I would have wanted. I know it doesnt make a difference since I would be already gone but I think it is the principle of the matter and about respect.

MagicMarker · 12-02-2011 12:13am

I personally think it would be completely selfish and disrespectful for your partner, or any member of your family, to go against your wishes tbh and I'd have no qualms about making that matter of fact known.

Ihaveanopinion · 12-02-2011 12:16am

I think I'd take the opposite approach.

So you don't particularly care one way or the other. You are dead at that stage. Like you said - you'd be happy in a cardboard box. However, funerals are not so much for the dead but for the living.

Had you succumbed to the disease (glad you didnt), there would have been a lot of unhappy people left behind. The funeral process/burial ceremony etc helps them deal with their loss. You have lost anything - having gone on to greener pastures, or not, as the case may be.

I don't really care what happens to me when I die. I do care about the happiness of those I leave behind.

Pushtrak · 12-02-2011 1:57am

takun wrote: »

To my surprise, he was really very upset about this. He felt it was disrespectful to my father and to his family (who are my son's family too) who would not accept this as a 'proper' funeral. In the heel of the hunt he admitted that it would not be a proper funeral to him either, and that he was a also a little upset that I had not 'come back to God' now that I was ill. I was quite taken aback. Anyway, those are hard conversations, and I was sick, so we really did not pursue it. Then I got better, so it was just left there, hanging.

Well, my 0.02$ for what they are worth. To me that sounds like the afraid you'll go to hell thing, and if you go through with the proper funeral that you'll have more of a chance of getting to that pie in the sky.

It's noteworthy that theists will talk about it being "their day" referring to a deceased persons funeral when talking to atheists who don't feel comfortable in church. Yet, even on your day, you are expected to follow the whims. I guess ones "day" only counts depending on their stance on religion.

magicbastarder · 12-02-2011 2:13am

if i died, i'd hope my loved ones would do whatever gave them most solace. not like i'll have a stake in it.

i've said it before though - my last wish would be for my naked body smeared in mustard and dropped onto bertie ahern from 1000 feet. better than some lousy funeral.

Daftendirekt · 12-02-2011 5:35am

I'm kind of in two minds about this. On one hand, I can see the merit in the idea that funerals are for the living. But on the other, I wouldn't dream of giving my parents a secular burial when they're gone, since I'd feel like I was pissing on their memory and I'd like the same courtesy to be extended to me.

Maybe it's different for the religious and a-religious, though. I know that when I kick the bucket, that'll be the end of me, so really it's not that important what happens to my remains. But a believer might place much more significance on the ritual, perhaps even believing the format the burial takes will have some effect on the deceased in the afterlife.

Beruthiel · 12-02-2011 12:21pm

Daftendirekt wrote: »

I wouldn't dream of giving my parents a secular burial when they're gone, since I'd feel like I was pissing on their memory and I'd like the same courtesy to be extended to me.

That's it exactly. My parents will get the whole 9 yards. Irish wake in house, a bazillion people walking through the house, church, family plot. It will be horrible and I'll hate every minute of it. But, that's what they want so that's what they'll get. It's down to respect and granting their last wish.

It's my party.... or is it?

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