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Ongoing religious scandals

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Comments

  • Moderators Posts: 51,860 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Archbishop on IRA sex offenders: “Let the truth come out”
    Asked what he would say to Adams, who’s been under political pressure as a result of his dispute with Maíria Cahill, Martin responded:
    I would say to anybody – let the truth come out.

    “Let the truth be investigated in a transparent open way by the competent authorities.

    From the man who swore abuse victims to secrecy :rolleyes:

    EDIT: my mistake (cheers Nodin for correction)

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    SW wrote: »
    Archbishop on IRA sex offenders: “Let the truth come out”



    From the man who swore abuse victims to secrecy :rolleyes:

    When the Archbishop saw- "Sexual abuse victims mistreated by a secretive organisation" what was the first thing that came to mind....
    "Hey, they don't mean us this time!"
    or
    "Judging by my CV, I'm clearly the most qualified person to make a statement about this"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    SW wrote: »
    Archbishop on IRA sex offenders: “Let the truth come out”



    From the man who swore abuse victims to secrecy :rolleyes:


    In fairness, wasn't that Brady?


  • Moderators Posts: 51,860 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Nodin wrote: »
    In fairness, wasn't that Brady?
    :o

    my bad. Edited accordingly.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    ^^^ Martin's the only guy I have any respect for in the institutional church - I don't know if he's having any effect or whether his successor will be like him, but in a field filled with the fist-wavings of the likes of Quinn, O'Brien and McDevitt, he provides a mostly sane voice, if a lonely one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Mr_A


    The remarkable thing about Martin is that he seems to have a firm grasp of the concepts of right and wrong. It is a sad indictment of the catholic hierarchy that this makes him exceptional.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Miriam Lord opens both barrels in the direction of Gerry Adams:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/this-was-not-leaders-questions-as-we-know-it-it-was-an-unprecedented-situation-in-the-d%C3%A1il-1.1973438
    Not so long ago, in a troubled place they called the Six County Statelet, decent IRA volunteers indiscriminately murdered in a futile attempt to unite the country they love. But their hearts were in the right place. And that’s good enough for Gerry Adams, who is sad to see their revered names being sullied now by people who don’t understand. These IRA volunteers had so much love for Ireland they shunted their favoured perverts and paedophiles across the North’s border to the rest of the country they claim to love. Oh, and they shot the ones they didn’t need to protect. Decent people. Adams – the IRA’s Boswell – says he wasn’t a member, yet is remarkably intimate with the organisation’s inner workings; he won’t hear a bad word uttered against them. As he said yesterday, these volunteers “were acting, in my opinion, in good faith” when seeking “to deal with some cases of abuse when asked to do so by families and victims”.

    Good faith is not how Maíria Cahill would see it. Yesterday’s extraordinary session of Leaders’ Questions took place right after the Taoiseach met the Belfast woman who says she was raped by an IRA man and then sworn to secrecy by senior members of that organisation who took it upon themselves to “interrogate” her over a number of months to test the validity of her claims. At one point, three of them also forced her to meet her rapist during a “kangaroo court”. She says she met Gerry Adams in his office in west Belfast and told him her story. Adams, his deputy leader Mary Lou McDonald and the rest of the Sinn Féin parliamentary party accept that she was raped, but not the rest of her testimony.
    Maíria Cahill hasn’t deviated one bit from her version of events. The Gerry Adams/Sinn Féin version has subtly shifted from almost blanket denial to a revised state of knowledge.

    Both Enda Kenny and Micheál Martin wanted to hear specific answers from Gerry Adams yesterday to questions posed by Cahill. What they got was generalised remorse and a scripted reply on doing the right thing by abused women and children, interspersed with pinpoint indignation over the wrongs being done to decent members of Sinn Féin. When you read back over the short transcript of yesterday’s extraordinary Dáil exchanges involving Enda Kenny, Micheál Martin and Gerry Adams, the words on their own go nowhere near conveying the electrifying atmosphere in the chamber.

    The Taoiseach and the Fianna Fáil leader were in agreement over the need to investigate how, as Micheál Martin put it, “the most powerful men within the IRA interrogated victims of abuse at the hands of leading members of the IRA”. The Dáil did not accept the excuses of leading churchmen over their handling of abuse cases, he said, pointing out that Sinn Féin politicians were to the fore in condemning the Catholic Church when stories emerged of cover-ups over child sex abuse. He read some of the trenchant comments made at the time by the likes of Martin McGuinness and Mary Lou McDonald.

    The Taoiseach described Maíria Cahill as “a courageous, confident, brave young woman” who “overcame the horror of being raped to face down the IRA and its generals, secret or otherwise”. This was not Leaders’ Questions as we know it. It was an unprecedented situation in the Dáil chamber, with the leaders of the two main parties challenging the leader of one of the biggest parties on the Irish political scene. And they wanted to know why Gerry Adams and Sinn Féin should feel entitled not to be examined in the same way that the Church and other bodies were investigated when it emerged they ignored cases of abuse to protect their institutional reputations.

    Gerry Adams was surrounded by his colleagues , with Mary Lou McDonald to his left. And they looked rattled. When Enda Kenny questioned her “blind allegiance” to her leader, she slowly shook her head. As the session unwound and Adams rose to defend himself, his party, the IRA and “republicans” in general, you could almost feel the anger and resentment radiating from their ranks. Adams sounded hurt and outraged almost to the point of becoming emotional.


    To shouts of “shame” from around the chamber, he said the Taoiseach had “cast a slur on thousands of decent Irish republicans”. “Republicans are no different to any other Irish citizens,” he added. But as he read his script and issued an all-encompassing apology for any wrongs that might have been done by IRA members (who apparently were only trying to do the decent thing by responding to requests for help from ordinary people), the look of silent disgust on the faces of most of the non-Sinn Féin TDs told its own story. And, of course, times were different during the war. (Maíria Cahill’s ordeal happened in 1997.) “I have set out the circumstances in the North when there was no democratic civic policing service” explained Adams. What is needed now is a “victim-centred approach.”

    Some of comments were treated with outright derision, like when he declared: “I refute the allegations that have been made about me and about other Sinn Féin members who assure me that all they did in their engagements, conversations and work with Maíria Cahill . . .” “Work? Ha!” snorted Fianna Fáil’s Michael McGrath. But Sinn Féin – including their young political stars who are too young to know – were fuming, in full post-Vietnam vet mode. They just stopped short of shouting . “It was a war, man! You weren’t there!” Most of the TDs in the chamber had read of Gerry’s blog – in between teddy bear tweets and the like – at the weekend.

    Here’s a sample: “But these actions were of their time and reflected not only a community at war but also an attitude within Ireland which did not then understand or know as we now do, how deeply embedded abuse is in our society . . . as society became better informed as to the issue and handling of abuse, republicans began to develop victim-centred approaches.” And we were transported back to other difficult days, in wood-panelled rooms in big parochial houses, when troubleshooting bishops spoke of different times and how nobody really knew about abuse and now that they do, they are really, really sorry.

    As for those simple questions for Adams, put to him by the Taoiseach in the Dáil, there were no straight answers. In fact, the Sinn Féin leader insisted he had already “refuted” them. Refute means to prove – he offered little proof.
    And what about the alleged abusers moved south of the Border, or “sent to another parish”, as Micheál Martin observed? “I don’t know” he said. All he knows is that decent volunteers have been done down by “sleeveen” Enda Kenny and Micheál Martin.

    And them pure as the driven truck . . . laden with explosives with an innocent man chained to the steering wheel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    That's some fancy shootin', right there Miriam :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Banbh


    The rise of Sinn Féin is causing open panic now in the media and the two-and-a-half political parties. The decline of FF, FG and Labour is mirrored in the decline in the circulation of the Irish Times and Co.

    One day soon the tipping point will be reached and we may get a new and secular republic.

    To quote Mr Pearse: 'Beware of the thing that is coming. Beware of the risen people.'


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,551 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Sinn Fein have even less morals than the RCC. I'm very disappointed by your post Banbh as you seem to welcome those who refuse to condemn rape and murder entering government?

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    The day Mary Lou stops lying blatantly to cover for her boss, military style (Don't ask, don't tell), I'll be one scared woman. Don't knock it. I say leave Gerry where he is or we'll have our Irish answer to Maggie Thatcher going head to head with Enda...and you know who'll win that one. :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Banbh


    you seem to welcome those who refuse to condemn rape and murder
    The 'seeming' is in your own imagination so don't burden me with it. Also 'refuse to condemn rape and murder' is another bizarre invention. My cycling club has refused to condemn ethnic cleansing.

    Much better to oppose Sinn Féin, if that is your wish, with economic policies for that is the sole reason they are increasing in popularity with those who are bearing the brunt of the austerity fraud.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,551 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Banbh wrote: »
    The 'seeming' is in your own imagination so don't burden me with it.

    Right.
    One day soon the tipping point will be reached and we may get a new and secular republic.
    sounds like an endorsement to me, although a severely misplaced one. SF will be pro-RCC if they get in.

    Also 'refuse to condemn rape and murder' is another bizarre invention. My cycling club has refused to condemn ethnic cleansing.

    If members of your cycling club had been involved in it, then it would be important would it not?
    You know exactly what I'm getting at here.
    Who collected Garda McCabe's killers when they were released?
    Sinn Fein are completely opposed to intimidation, beatings, murder, rape, robbery, when it's not IRA members doing it.
    When it is, they equivocate or go very silent.
    Much better to oppose Sinn Féin, if that is your wish, with economic policies for that is the sole reason they are increasing in popularity with those who are bearing the brunt of the austerity fraud.

    Their economic policies are indeed crazy, but that's not what worries me the most about them.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Sinn Fein have even less morals than the RCC. I'm very disappointed by your post Banbh as you seem to welcome those who refuse to condemn rape and murder entering government?


    Where did SF refuse to condemn rape?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,551 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    You may have heard about a woman who was raped as a teenager she's been in the news lately.

    Allegedly she was raped by a member of the 'republican movement'

    Other members of the 'republican movement' took it upon themselves to interrogate her in a kangaroo court

    The leader of the 'republican movement' at the time, who is also the leader today, pretends to know nothing about it, just like he did with his own brother.

    TDs of the 'republican movement' row in behind their Leader Who Can Never Be Wrong About Anything.

    The difference between the pope and Gerry Adams is that the pope is sometimes fallible.

    Scrap the cap!



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    You may have (...............) between the pope and Gerry Adams is that the pope is sometimes fallible.


    You stated
    Sinn Fein have even less morals than the RCC. I'm very disappointed by your post Banbh as you seem to welcome those who refuse to condemn rape and murder entering government?

    Did SF refuse to condemn rape/a specific rape, or are you just firing out hyperbole for the craic?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Banbh wrote: »
    The 'seeming' is in your own imagination so don't burden me with it. Also 'refuse to condemn rape and murder' is another bizarre invention. My cycling club has refused to condemn ethnic cleansing.

    Much better to oppose Sinn Féin, if that is your wish, with economic policies for that is the sole reason they are increasing in popularity with those who are bearing the brunt of the austerity fraud.

    You mean the austerity which has turned Ireland around from the brink and where we have the highest growth rates in Europe... that austerity?

    I remember in another post I wrote that political allegiance is much like religious devotion.

    I was lambasted for that post. Seems I am now vindicated with this scandal taking centre stage. Sinn Fein supporters are doing their very best to live up to it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,551 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Nodin wrote: »
    Did SF refuse to condemn rape/a specific rape, or are you just firing out hyperbole for the craic?

    They are disputing the testimony of a rape victim to protect Gerry Adams.

    If the rapist in question was a bishop and not a 'volunteer' their reaction would be rather different.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    They are disputing the testimony of a rape victim to protect Gerry Adams.

    "they" (a lovely vague term) are not disputing her testimony with regards the rape.

    Again - Did SF refuse to condemn rape/a specific rape, or are you just firing out hyperbole for the craic?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    "they" (a lovely vague term) are not disputing her testimony with regards the rape.

    Again - Did SF refuse to condemn rape/a specific rape, or are you just firing out hyperbole for the craic?

    Sinn Fein/IRA are a master at playing with words and it seems you know a trick or too yourself.

    'They' are not confirming it either even when asked directly.

    Gerry Adams had the opportunity in the Dail on Wednesday to clear the air and condemn the actions that Sinn Fein/IRA perpetrated against her and other victims of abuse by Republicans.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/kenny-in-angry-exchanges-with-adams-in-dáil-after-cahill-talks-1.1972772

    The cult of Adams and Sinn Fein/IRA lives on and even would be atheists are blind followers.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Sinn Fein/IRA are a master at playing with words and it seems you know a trick or too yourself.
    ..............

    So you've nothing either.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    So you've nothing either.

    More republican whataboutery. If someone from the Iona institute said what you just said you would be onto it like a fly on $hit. However the cult of Irish republicanism must be protected!

    Well it is now emerging that's Sinn Fein/IRA moved 10 abusers south of the border. Gerry Adams should step down as leader of Sinn Fein and cooperate fully with both the PSNI and the Gardai. Mary Lou was quite critical in her condemnation of the RCC however she seems to be silent on the current issues as are many Shinners on this board. Amazing hypocrisy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    More republican (...............)hypocrisy.

    More hyperbole, some shifting of the goal posts, but nothing to back up the original statement.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    So Nodin, do you condemn these actions and what consequences should Sinn Fein/IRA face in light off moving known abusers around the country. You have been awfully quiet on this issue as you are normally pontificating from the highest roof top about child abuse in the RCC.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    So Nodin, do you condemn these actions .

    What actions specifically? If you mean the rape of this young woman, yes I do indeed condemn it, and would have thought that went without saying.
    jank wrote: »
    and what consequences should Sinn Fein/IRA face in light off moving known abusers around the country.

    Your 'concern' for the victims is touching.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    What actions specifically? If you mean the rape of this young woman, yes I do indeed condemn it, and would have thought that went without saying.

    Do you therefore condemn the cover up that Sinn Fein/IRA perpetrated?
    Do you condemn Sinn Fein/IRA moving would be abusers South of the border like the RCC used to shift their own problems out of sight?
    Do you condemn the shifting story from Gerry Adams and what he did and what he knew?
    Do you think his position as leader of the party is tenable.
    Do condemn what he said when he said that 'abuse victims' started to enjoy it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Banbh


    I 'condemn' the using of this woman by the Taoiseach, Micheál Martin, the O'Brien media and RTE in try and smear Gerry Adams. The kangaroo trial in Dail Eireann and the media has failed in its sole objective - to stop the rise of Sinn Fein and the eclipsing of the FFGLB party.

    Two members of the Republican Movement had sexual relations over the period of a year. One was underage. In the absence of a police force acceptable to their community and to BOTH parties, the woman subsequently complained to the IRA for redress. She was not believed initially but following inquiries acceptable to all parties, she was. The perpetrator was threatened with death or exile from Northern Ireland.

    Later, the split in the staunchly republican Cahill family (Joe was a founder of the Provisional IRA, and a sister of Mairia was/is an active member of the movement). Mairia is/was a member of the dissident RNU campaigning against the Good Friday Agreement and what they regard as the Gerry Adams 'betrayal'. Her aunt Eilis O'Hanlon who is handling her current campaign, is a member of the anti-Sinn Fein, Independent Newspapers group.

    There is little in this campaign other than the worst of smear politics. But as the recent polls have shown, its not working. If there are cases to be answered they should be dealt with in the courts and all information should be given to the PSNI or the Gardaí. This is the view expressed by Gerry Adams and it is the only honest one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Its high time she went to the police or STFU.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    jank wrote: »
    So Nodin, do you condemn these actions and what consequences should Sinn Fein/IRA face in light off moving known abusers around the country.
    It pales into insignificance compared to the "main activities" that SF/IRA (including the Cahill family) were involved in.
    That is the difference between this and the RCC scandals. Also the fact that SF/IRA have never claimed to be a moral authority for all of humanity.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Banbh wrote: »
    I 'condemn' the using of this woman by the Taoiseach, Micheál Martin, the O'Brien media and RTE in try and smear Gerry Adams. The kangaroo trial in Dail Eireann and the media has failed in its sole objective - to stop the rise of Sinn Fein and the eclipsing of the FFGLB party.

    Two members of the Republican Movement had sexual relations over the period of a year. One was underage. In the absence of a police force acceptable to their community and to BOTH parties, the woman subsequently complained to the IRA for redress. She was not believed initially but following inquiries acceptable to all parties, she was. The perpetrator was threatened with death or exile from Northern Ireland.

    Later, the split in the staunchly republican Cahill family (Joe was a founder of the Provisional IRA, and a sister of Mairia was/is an active member of the movement). Mairia is/was a member of the dissident RNU campaigning against the Good Friday Agreement and what they regard as the Gerry Adams 'betrayal'. Her aunt Eilis O'Hanlon who is handling her current campaign, is a member of the anti-Sinn Fein, Independent Newspapers group.

    There is little in this campaign other than the worst of smear politics. But as the recent polls have shown, its not working. If there are cases to be answered they should be dealt with in the courts and all information should be given to the PSNI or the Gardaí. This is the view expressed by Gerry Adams and it is the only honest one.

    Tis all a conspiracy I suppose. The cult of Irish republicanism alive and well in 2014.

    Also, I almost spat out my smoothy when you had 'Gerry Adams' and 'honest' in the same sentance.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    recedite wrote: »
    Its high time she went to the police or STFU.
    Maíria Cahill has been to the police already and the Public Prosecution Service has announced that it's going to review three cases linked to her alleged rape:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-29704847


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Banbh


    Jank: I almost spat out my smoothy when you had 'Gerry Adams' and 'honest' in the same sentance.
    Spit away. I will still engage in discussion on the issues if I choose.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Do you therefore condemn the cover up that Sinn Fein/IRA perpetrated?
    Do you condemn Sinn Fein/IRA moving would be abusers South of the border like the RCC used to shift their own problems out of sight?
    Do you condemn the shifting story from Gerry Adams and what he did and what he knew?
    Do you think his position as leader of the party is tenable.
    Do condemn what he said when he said that 'abuse victims' started to enjoy it?

    Afaik, people were not moved, they were forcibly exiled. I've no idea where.

    No agenda at all.

    There's no evidence that he said that.

    Be honest jank. You couldn't give a rats ass about maria cahill.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    robindch wrote: »
    Maíria Cahill has been to the police already...
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-29704847
    From the link;
    All charges were dropped and the accused rapist acquitted after Ms Cahill withdrew her evidence.
    While "witness intimidation" was a possibility, if it occurred it seems unlikely that it would have originated from the accused rapist himself, given all the circumstances and family connections.
    Therefore the whole thing emerging now looks political, IMO.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    Afaik, people were not moved, they were forcibly exiled. I've no idea where.

    Ah, another classic dance with words there. Like the money was 'resting' in my account, sir. They were 'exiled' not moved....

    Where were they 'exiled' to? A desert island where they could do no harm or to the south among the general population who were oblivious to their past? Were the Gardai given notice that known abusers were going to be re-settled?
    Nodin wrote: »
    There's no evidence that he said that.

    Maria Cahill claimed as much that this happened at the Sinn Fein/IRA kangaroo court, do you believe her or do you still worship at the alter of Gerry Adams?

    And since you have not condemned any of the actions of Sinn Fein/IRA then I take it you have no problem with their actions on this. Amazing double standard by you. If this was a religious organisation you would be the first to condemn.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-always-try-to-discredit-victims-of-ira-crimes-30693277.html
    The first characteristic of the Sinn Fein leadership's response is that crimes committed by members of what it refers to as "the Republican Movement" are to be treated differently than crimes committed by others.

    We know that Mairia Cahill says she was raped in 1997 by a prominent member of the IRA. We know that in January 1999 Eamon Collins was murdered shortly after he had given evidence against a well-known IRA member in defamation proceedings. We know that in January 2005 Robert McCartney was murdered by an IRA gang because he came to the aid of a friend who had been attacked in a pub in the Short Strand in Belfast. We know that in April 2005 Joe Rafferty from Dublin's south inner city was murdered in Dublin by a prominent IRA member because he had refused to be intimidated by that member who had worked on a number of election campaigns for Sinn Fein.

    All of these crimes committed since the IRA ceasefire resulted in no credible steps being taken by the leadership of Sinn Fein to bring the perpetrators of these crimes to justice. The reason is that the leadership of Sinn Fein does not believe that crimes committed by members of the IRA at any time, whether before or after the ceasefire, are the same as other crimes.

    In this self-protecting Sinn Fein world, the rape of Mairia Cahill and the murders of Eamon Collins, Robert McCartney and Joe Rafferty are not crimes that should be properly investigated; nor are they crimes they wish to see resolved so that the perpetrators can be brought to justice. Sinn Fein does not want them investigated or solved because they were carried out by members of "the Republican movement" who deserve to be protected and supported by the Sinn Fein leadership, in the same way as that leadership supported the killers of Garda Jerry McCabe after they were released from prison.

    Having made the decision that the perpetrators of these crimes should be treated differently to others, the second characteristic of the Sinn Fein leadership in responding to these serious crimes is to deny involvement by "the Republican Movement".

    We know that originally Mairia Cahill's allegations were denied by the Sinn Fein leadership, with it only recently accepting that she was subjected to an IRA kangaroo court inquiry. After Eamon Collins was beaten and stabbed to death in 1999 near his home in Newry, Gerry Adams stated the killing was "regrettable" but added that Collins had "many enemies in many, many, many places", thereby suggesting that his murder may not have been carried out by the IRA.

    After the murder of Robert McCartney there was an elaborate and extensive cover-up and clean-up of the area outside the pub in Belfast where he was murdered in order to prevent a proper investigation. At the time the Sinn Fein leadership stated that "no-one involved acted as a Republican or on behalf of Republicans". The purpose behind that statement was to suggest that the murder had not been carried out with the sanction or authority of the IRA leadership.

    A similar defence was made in respect of the murder of Joe Rafferty when Sinn Fein representatives told Joe Rafferty's family that his murder had not been sanctioned by the IRA leadership. The fact of the matter, however, was that he was murdered by a member of the IRA who had worked on numerous election campaigns for Sinn Fein.

    It should also be remembered that after the killing of Jerry McCabe the IRA initially denied any involvement.

    The third characteristic of the Sinn Fein response is to circle the wagons and defend their own. The people involved in the IRA kangaroo court that subjected Mairia Cahill to further abuse were described as "decent people" who were simply trying to help. The reality is that they were intimidating her and trying to brush her complaints under the carpet.

    Similarly, in the cases of Eamon Collins, Robert McCartney and Joe Rafferty, the Sinn Fein leadership had as its primary objective the protection of the perpetrators who were part of the "Republican movement". By suggesting that these murders were either not carried out by the IRA, or that they were unsanctioned acts of the IRA, the hope of Sinn Fein was to deflect attention from the IRA as an institution and suggest that these were isolated events that did not emanate from "the Republican Movement".

    A fourth and really reprehensible characteristic of Sinn Fein in relation to these crimes is its attempts to discredit the victim. We have seen recently how the leadership tried to discredit Mairia Cahill by undermining her story. They accept it in part but refuse to accept that part which suggests knowledge and awareness on the part of the Sinn Fein leadership.

    After Eamon Collins was murdered a local Sinn Fein councillor stated "He will not be missed. I have no feelings for Eamon Collins." Collins was so brutally murdered whilst out for a walk that initially it was thought he had been hit by a car. When it was discovered that his tongue had been cut out it was clear this was no car accident. After Joe Rafferty was murdered, certain people publicly and falsely suggested that he had been involved in drug-dealing. Although we do not know who spread these rumours, the likelihood, based on what we know about his murder, is that these lies were spread by people seeking to protect the member of "the Republican Movement" who murdered Rafferty.

    The final and most important characteristic of the Sinn Fein response is to get the story off the news agenda as quickly as possible. They succeeded in this with Eamon Collins, Robert McCartney and Joe Rafferty. People have forgotten about those heinous murders that were committed after the conflict concluded. The rape of Mairia Cahill, however, is not going away as quickly as the leadership had hoped. The Sinn Fein leadership has portrayed itself as seeking to represent the weak and the victimised in society. Its response to Mairia Cahill, however, reveals that it is prepared to let the story stay in the news rather than doing the responsible and decent thing which would be to stop protecting its own and start believing credible victims.

    Politicians have a duty to hold Sinn Fein to account for its response to these heinous crimes. This is a party that wants to lead the next Irish Government; that wishes to have control of the Department of Justice where it will be responsible for the gardai and our criminal justice system. No doubt Sinn Fein would also like to be given ministerial responsibility for the Department of Children. It would be a gross dereliction of duty if politicians from other parties did not seek to point out Sinn Fein's appalling record on justice and victims of abuse.

    A good article explaining the methods of Sinn Fein cover ups and how never ever ever, they are at fault. They brand themselves as guardians of social justice. Their record of the type of justice they dish out speaks for itself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    A good article explaining the methods of Sinn Fein cover ups ...........


    From the paper that a while back stated that for too long it had carried the burden of battling Sinn Fein and it was time the parties went after them more aggressively.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    From the paper that a while back stated that for too long it had carried the burden of battling Sinn Fein and it was time the parties went after them more aggressively.

    Still dancing the to the Sinn Fein/IRA tune I see.

    Do you care to condemn Gerry Adams at all? You silence is deafening if not utterly predictable. Do you not find it ironic that yourself a staunch atheist still worships on the alter of Irish Republicanism?

    I have pressed you a number of times on this issue and have refused to answer me, so I presume and the rest of the boards community will attest that you have no problem whatsoever with how Sinn Fein/IRA are handling this case and how it handled abusers in the past. Gerry Adams has much in common with Cardinal Brady it seems.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    jank wrote: »
    Sinn Fein/IRA .

    Well that phrase is certainly a blast from the past...

    ;)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Still dancing the to the Sinn Fein/IRA tune I see.

    Do you care to condemn Gerry Adams at all? .

    Dear o dear.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66655727&postcount=75
    jank wrote: »
    I have pressed you a number of times on this issue and have refused to answer me, so I presume and the rest of the boards community will attest that you have no problem whatsoever with how Sinn Fein/IRA are handling this case and how it handled abusers in the past. Gerry Adams has much in common with Cardinal Brady it seems.


    National school. Jaysus that was a long time ago.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,551 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    jank wrote: »
    A good article explaining the methods of Sinn Fein cover ups and how never ever ever, they are at fault. They brand themselves as guardians of social justice. Their record of the type of justice they dish out speaks for itself.

    In short, ex-IRA are untouchable and SF want it to stay that way.
    As you say, their attitude to a crime depends entirely on who committed it.
    Deeply depressing that just when we seem as a country to be throwing off the shackles of one completely untrustworthy and unjust organisation, we are willing to embrace another.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    On the bright side, at least hes not anti-science.

    "Hindu nationalists have long propagated their belief that many discoveries of modern science and technology were known to the people of ancient India. But now for the first time an Indian prime minister has endorsed these claims, maintaining that cosmetic surgery and reproductive genetics were practiced thousands of years ago.
    As proof, Narendra Modi gave the examples of the warrior Karna from the Sanskrit epic Mahabharata and of the elephant-headed Hindu god Ganesha."

    "Modi went on: “We worship Lord Ganesha. There must have been some plastic surgeon at that time who got an elephant’s head on the body of a human being and began the practice of plastic surgery.”

    "This is not the first time that Modi has publicly articulated such ideas. But he did so earlier as chief minister of Gujarat state, and not as prime minister. He also wrote the foreword to a book for school students in Gujarat which maintains, among other things, that the Hindu God Rama flew the first aeroplane and that stem cell technology was known in ancient India."
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/28/indian-prime-minister-genetic-science-existed-ancient-times


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    Nodin wrote: »
    "Modi went on: “We worship Lord Ganesha. There must have been some plastic surgeon at that time who got an elephant’s head on the body of a human being and began the practice of plastic surgery.”

    [/URL]

    If someone has a better idea about how to get an elephant's head onto a human body - i'd like to hear it!

    I bet Lord Ganesha got really sick of hearing people ask "are those tusks real?"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,712 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Nodin wrote: »
    On the bright side, at least hes not anti-science . . .
    Far from being anti-science, he seems to be to be absurdly pro-science.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Cardinal Francis E. George, the cardinal who runs the archdiocese of Chicago has released a large amount of information, much of it heavily redacted, on sex abuse by priests.

    Initial reports suggest that the archdiocese is now as clean as a whistle, as the data only refers to priests who are either dead or retired from the priesthood.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/07/us/chicago-archdiocese-offers-sex-abuse-data.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭Valmont


    What do you all make of the cross on Carrauntoohill being cut down? It wouldn't be to my taste seeing a cross on top of a mountain but a lot of people went to some serious trouble to get it up there. Maybe Christ the Redeemer is next?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Valmont wrote: »
    What do you all make of the cross on Carrauntoohill being cut down? It wouldn't be to my taste seeing a cross on top of a mountain but a lot of people went to some serious trouble to get it up there. Maybe Christ the Redeemer is next?

    Oh right...they left it lying there! I didn't hear till now, but I just assumed they'd made off with it for the metal value, but no! Intriguing. I think it's a pity it's going to be put back up though. Who on earth gave the 100 people permission to put it there in the 70's in the first place?!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,191 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Valmont wrote: »
    What do you all make of the cross on Carrauntoohill being cut down? It wouldn't be to my taste seeing a cross on top of a mountain but a lot of people went to some serious trouble to get it up there. Maybe Christ the Redeemer is next?

    An act of sheer vandalism. But it seems it's been known about since 1976, so how come it's taken this long for it to be "cleaned up"?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,971 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    What I heard was that the cross could have collapsed due to weathering, but let's allow the Christian Right some more ammo to bully us with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,474 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/probe-of-carrauntoohil-summit-cross-vandalism-299270.html

    What angers me is that at this stage, vandalism, to what I would consider originally vandalism to our highest peak, has seen more Garda resources allocated to it than the Tuam case.


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