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New changes to regulations from 1st Sep dilemma

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  • 31-07-2015 9:57am
    #1
    Shanry
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭


    Hi
    We're due to start building our 115m2 extension next week 4th Sep. We have an Engineer hired to certify all the works.
    Can we cancel him now with the new changes?
    It would be great to put the money to a better use!!


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    #2
    RORY O CONNOR
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭RORY O CONNOR


    If you have him hired there may be an enforceable contract in place. You may be better to have some sort of supervision in place-perhaps you can revise the terms of your agreement and keep him on board for a lower fee


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    #3
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Shanry wrote: »
    Hi
    We're due to start building our 115m2 extension next week 4th Sep. We have an Engineer hired to certify all the works.
    Can we cancel him now with the new changes?
    It would be great to put the money to a better use!!

    Why would you cancel an engineer and supervision?
    Who will then supervise the project?
    Have you lodged a commencement notice?

    And finally, have the DOE announced a September change yet?


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    #4
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Nothing has been changed yet - there was an article in a tabloid newspaper - that's all we have to go on

    Edit: the DoE website quotes a government ministers intentionto amend si9 but no detail on this amendment and no fixed date has been set


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    #5
    Shanry
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭Shanry


    Thanks for the replies guys.
    I phoned my local TD after he announced it on radio and he confirmed it to me. Nothing in writing officially yet I know.
    We have submitted the commencement notice.
    We have an architect on site and he's been overseeing everything already, he also designed the plans so we're not without supervision.


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    #6
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Shanry wrote: »
    We have submitted the commencement notice.

    If you have already submitted your commencement notice, then you just need to keep moving on under SI9/BCAR.


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    #7
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,288 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    What are these new Sep 1st regulations?


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    #8
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,288 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Shanry wrote: »
    Hi
    We're due to start building our 115m2 extension next week 4th Sep. We have an Engineer hired to certify all the works.
    Can we cancel him now with the new changes?
    It would be great to put the money to a better use!!

    You're a month ahead of yourself...


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    #9
    Strolling Bones
    Registered Users Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Strolling Bones


    Shanry wrote: »
    It would be great to put the money to a better use!!

    All that "book learning" sure is a waste of money ....


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    #10
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    lawred2 wrote: »
    What are these new Sep 1st regulations?

    Part N of the Building Regulations come into effect and every one off house/extension to an existing dwelling must be fitted with a disco ball. :p


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    #11
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,288 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    Part N of the Building Regulations come into effect and every one off house/extension to an existing dwelling must be fitted with a disco ball. :p

    Well it's about time we put some legislative framework around this stuff..

    There's been cowboys neglecting this for years


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    #12
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    lawred2 wrote: »
    What are these new Sep 1st regulations?

    http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentHousing/BuildingStandards/News/MainBody,42399,en.htm

    Note the small print...alternative means of demonstrating compliance will be required if somebody chooses to 'opt-out'. What the manderins in the DECLG mean by this is anybody's guess!


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    #13
    Strolling Bones
    Registered Users Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Strolling Bones


    It all tends to foster respect for the law.

    No?


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    #14
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentHousing/BuildingStandards/News/MainBody,42399,en.htm

    Note the small print...alternative means of demonstrating compliance will be required if somebody chooses to 'opt-out'. What the manderins in the DECLG mean by this is anybody's guess!

    I know from a BCO perspective a simple home owner stating yeah I built it this way will not be accepted.

    For straight forward stuff maybe a visual confirmation but for any complex issues a demonstration of compliance will most likely be requested from somebody professionally qualified to offer that opinion.


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    #15
    Strolling Bones
    Registered Users Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Strolling Bones


    kceire wrote: »
    I know from a BCO perspective a simple home owner stating yeah I built it this way will not be accepted.

    You mean the powers conferred upon local authorities since the 1990 Building Control Act may actually be exercised ?
    After all this time


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    #16
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Strolling Bones wrote: »
    You mean the powers conferred upon local authorities since the 1990 Building Control Act may actually be exercised ?
    After all this time

    In Dublin, they are exercised all the time ;)
    Maybe outside of the Capital, the LA's should beef up their patrols :)


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    #17
    No6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentHousing/BuildingStandards/News/MainBody,42399,en.htm

    Note the small print...alternative means of demonstrating compliance will be required if somebody chooses to 'opt-out'. What the manderins in the DECLG mean by this is anybody's guess!

    Here in australia there's a route to achive complaince with the regulations without complying with the Building Code of Australia, it is called an alternative solution and is always signed off by someone. Some are relatviely simple solutions to relatively simple problems but many involve fire engineered solutions, ie another professional putiing his PI on the line. If they adopt a similar approach in Ireland you may avoid on thing only to find the alternative is a lot worse! Beware.


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    #18
    civdef
    Registered Users Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭civdef


    Alternative means of compliance like that have been available here since the Building Regs were introduced.


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    #19
    stickybookmark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    OP, do not start the build with an assigned certifier.

    after your commencement notice has been lodged you have a 28 day day period. if your build hasn't commenced within this, then you have to file a new commencement notice .
    wait til 28 days after your commencement notice was filed (which will be post 1st September so new changes will be in force)
    then file a new commencement notice as soon as the 28 days are up (ringing up to cancel the old one)
    then you can start without an assigned certifier. i have been working with one and it is a pain in the hole. because that person is going to be liable for your house for the rest of their days (regardless of house ownership) they have to be informed of every little thing - which leads to them cribbing about the project taking up too many hours and them having to bill you for more than the fixed price you agreed on at the start. things that the builder/project manager/client could ordinarily work out between them all have to be run past the AC because the AC has responsibility for the house for the rest of their life etc.
    also in my case the AC has been ultra conservative in every aspect of the build so far - which has led to increased costs for me and also refusing to embrace new technology because it is not that well known (again ...because they are going to be tied to this house forever)
    save yourself a lot of hassle now and nip this in the bud, the timing has suited you perfectly, you have a chance to opt out of a very cumbersome addition to your build


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    #20
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    stickybookmark wrote: »
    then file a new commencement notice as soon as the 28 days are up (ringing up to cancel the old one)

    Who told you/advised you that you can do this? Did you make that up?


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    #21
    stickybookmark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    Who told you/advised you that you can do this? Did you make that up?

    if you don't start building within 28 days you need to file a new commencement notice.
    it says it on the bcms site under frequently asked questions


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    #22
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    stickybookmark wrote: »
    OP, do not start the build with an assigned certifier.

    after your commencement notice has been lodged you have a 28 day day period. if your build hasn't commenced within this, then you have to file a new commencement notice .
    wait til 28 days after your commencement notice was filed (which will be post 1st September so new changes will be in force)
    then file a new commencement notice as soon as the 28 days are up (ringing up to cancel the old one)
    then you can start without an assigned certifier. i have been working with one and it is a pain in the hole. because that person is going to be liable for your house for the rest of their days (regardless of house ownership) they have to be informed of every little thing - which leads to them cribbing about the project taking up too many hours and them having to bill you for more than the fixed price you agreed on at the start. things that the builder/project manager/client could ordinarily work out between them all have to be run past the AC because the AC has responsibility for the house for the rest of their life etc.
    also in my case the AC has been ultra conservative in every aspect of the build so far - which has led to increased costs for me and also refusing to embrace new technology because it is not that well known (again ...because they are going to be tied to this house forever)
    save yourself a lot of hassle now and nip this in the bud, the timing has suited you perfectly, you have a chance to opt out of a very cumbersome addition to your build
    stickybookmark wrote: »
    if you don't start building within 28 days you need to file a new commencement notice.
    it says it on the bcms site under frequently asked questions


    Minor thing but you cannot ring up and cancel a commencement notice.
    Once it becomes valid it will remain valid for the rest of time. If you don't commence then yes you may need to lodge a new notice and then there will be 2 CN's attached to the property.


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    #23
    stickybookmark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    kceire wrote: »
    Minor thing but you cannot ring up and cancel a commencement notice.
    Once it becomes valid it will remain valid for the rest of time. If you don't commence then yes you may need to lodge a new notice and then there will be 2 CN's attached to the property.

    oh ok sorry. well just file a new one then and let the old one linger there


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    #24
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    stickybookmark wrote: »
    oh ok sorry. well just file a new one then and let the old one linger there

    Yes. Entirely possible and does happen very often.


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    #25
    JonathonS
    Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭JonathonS


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentHousing/BuildingStandards/News/MainBody,42399,en.htm

    The press release continues:

    Minister Coffey said “I am satisfied that the new arrangements will level the playing field for individuals and families planning to build or extend their own home. They will no longer be held to ransom by excessive quotes for design and completion certificates."

    Outrageous insinuation.:rolleyes:


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    #26
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    The Ammended Regulations will be in force by 1st September 2015.


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    #27
    overshoot
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭overshoot


    kceire wrote: »
    The Ammended Regulations will be in force by 1st September 2015.
    if only we knew what they were!


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    #28
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    overshoot wrote: »
    if only we knew what they were!

    I know they will be. The SI should be released in the coming days.
    I've seen the Draft Version.

    Home Owners will have the option to opt out of the requirement to appoint an Assigned Certifier.


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    #29
    overshoot
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭overshoot


    kceire wrote: »
    I know they will be. The SI should be released in the coming days.
    I've seen the Draft Version.

    Home Owners will have the option to opt out of the requirement to appoint an Assigned Certifier.
    And the "alternative means of demonstrating compliance" aka new home of all the liability will be...?
    Or the new fit for purpose inspection system will be?


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    #30
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    overshoot wrote: »
    And the "alternative means of demonstrating compliance" aka new home of all the liability will be...?

    The liability will then rest 100% on the home owner, as it should be. If they choose to opt out of the mandatory certification process, then he/she will want to either appoint a competent person to supervise the works for him/her, supervise it themselves or trust the builder, or if he/she is building it themselves, then they better know what they are doing.
    overshoot wrote: »
    Or the new fit for purpose inspection system will be?

    The current Inspection system here in Dublin is working very well, don't know what its like in the sticks though.


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    #31
    overshoot
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭overshoot


    Ok last question... The home owner demonstrates compliance by....?

    Inspections... rare! But considering the ground they have to cover vs how many are in the department its no surprise. They also said they would be focusing a lot of their energies on the less reputable certifiers to put it one way...


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