Home renovatio, how to plan broadband setup

Josey Wales · 28-07-2015 2:29pm #1

Hi,

I am currently getting a lot of work done on the house and need to have a think about my broadband setup. Curretly the UPC point is downstairs but I'm getting the attic converted to have an entertainment space up there so I'll need good broadband speed in the attic.

What is the best way of getting wired internet in the attic?

Is it simply a case of running an ethernet cable from the router downstairs all the way to the attic? Could this ethernet cable go directly into another router in the attic so that I can share that connection with several devices?

Any tips or suggestions would be appreciated.

ED E · 28-07-2015 2:40pm

If theres lots of work being done, wire CAT6 back from all the rooms to 1 point, and put a switch in there.

If you just wanna do the one room, a cable to the attic and a €40 switch up there is all you'd need to feed 7 devices.

Zynks · 28-07-2015 2:44pm

There are many ways you can do it, I will tell you about my experience and lessons learned.

I also had planned to place my access point in the attic. My house was two floors then we went into the attic, leaving some space for storage. We have CAT5e cabling all around the house and also coaxial from the living room to the attic for the option of taking the modem up (we have a Horizon TV box in the living room, but wifi coverage was rubbish, so we split TV and modem).

The first problem was that the new insulation that has that shiny foil and new steel beams seem to reflect the wifi signals and mess everything up, so the modem had to be moved to the second floor on a shelf just below the ceiling. Still, wifi signal is not as good as it could be.

We have about 3 PCs, 4 tablets, 2 laptops and a few phones around the house. Everybody prefers to use wired due to the problems. We have alleviated some of the issues with wifi extenders, but people end up taking their devices closer to the box if they want good signal.

So, yes, you can run this ethernet cable to the attic and have an access point or router there, but keep options open in case you are unsure about how well coverage will work. You also might want it in a place easy to reset/restart.

More importantly, if possible, run ethernet (Cat5e or Cat6) everywhere you can. If you can have two sockets per room, do it.

Josey Wales · 28-07-2015 3:18pm

We are doing enough work that adding cabling around won't be a problem.

So would this work:

UPC cable modem in the living room.
CAT5 socket in the attic connected to a switch. Then I can connect devices directly to the swtich.
CAT5 socket in the playroom wired back to modem in the living room.
CAT5 socket in the kitchen wired back to the modem in the living room.

With all the CAT5 sockets being wired back to the modem do you need a switch here too. Would the CAT5 cables connect to the switch and then one cable to the modem?

Thanks.

ED E · 28-07-2015 3:30pm

Put a central 16 or 24port switch in somewhere discreet. In the area under the roof in the converted attic say. Run all cables to the rooms from there.

Modem feeds "central" switch, switch feeds everywhere else. Then if you change from UPC later, say eircom or ESB FTTH, it doesnt really matter as you can just feed whatever service back to the switch from wherever your ISP drops in.

In areas where you have a rake of devices, say TV, PS4 and Xbone together then you can put in a small switch to make 1 port 3 or 7.

Josey Wales · 28-07-2015 3:47pm

ED E wrote: »

Put a central 16 or 24port switch in somewhere discreet. In the area under the roof in the converted attic say. Run all cables to the rooms from there.

Modem feeds "central" switch, switch feeds everywhere else. Then if you change from UPC later, say eircom or ESB FTTH, it doesnt really matter as you can just feed whatever service back to the switch from wherever your ISP drops in.

In areas where you have a rake of devices, say TV, PS4 and Xbone together then you can put in a small switch to make 1 port 3 or 7.

That makes sense. I know what to ask for now.

Cheers.

Zynks · 28-07-2015 4:14pm

Josey Wales wrote: »

We are doing enough work that adding cabling around won't be a problem.

So would this work:

UPC cable modem in the living room.
CAT5 socket in the attic connected to a switch. Then I can connect devices directly to the swtich.
CAT5 socket in the playroom wired back to modem in the living room.
CAT5 socket in the kitchen wired back to the modem in the living room.

With all the CAT5 sockets being wired back to the modem do you need a switch here too. Would the CAT5 cables connect to the switch and then one cable to the modem?

Thanks.

Ed E is right. What you are planning there works fine, but for it will be more manageable in the long run if you should have a 'distribution centre', i.e., a single or main main switch. Reasons for that include:
- easier to troubleshoot if something goes wrong with the wiring (you know where the it goes to for sure)
- one device less to cause trouble and consume electricity (it is not too much, but a few cents here and there...)

In the sitting room personally I would prefer three or four sockets (TV, PS3/4, Media Player) than having a hub, but either way works.

The only thing you might regret later is not having more sockets

I did the wiring in mine 10 years ago. The number of devices demanding broadband connectivity in the house has increased five-fold at least.

k123456 · 28-07-2015 6:27pm

I think for future proofing your main tv setup, you should lay three cables

Most TVs, Set top box, Android set top box (minix x8 or similar) need or will need have internet access
Streaming, Smart TV, Net enabled HI-fi etc. Esp in a well insulated house, where the wifi will suffer. You could go wireless 802,ac , but this needs a wireless 802 NIC to fully operate at decent speeds. You wireless and your wired nic will be on the Motherboard, of your TV etc, and as such is not changeable

You need to think carefully where these boxes will sit, and position your cat points near to these , in such a way as to hide network cables

As 240mb BB is readily available, try to ensure all smart devices have 1gb nics, TV, , switch ports etc, I am open to correction, but cat5, does not support 1gb, cat5e and above does

keithclancy · 28-07-2015 7:03pm

k123456 wrote: »

I
As 240mb BB is readily available, try to ensure all smart devices have 1gb nics, TV, , switch ports etc, I am open to correction, but cat5, does not support 1gb, cat5e and above does

Depends on the quality and how long the cable is.

Zynks · 28-07-2015 7:53pm

CAT5 doesn't support 1gbps, but CAT5e does.

bk · 30-07-2015 1:26pm

A few additional points to what was said above.

- Absolutely agree with putting a switch in the attic and running everything from there.

- Use Cat6 rather then Cat5e, it only costs very little extra (relative to the labour costs of digging up your walls) and should future proof you for much longer, specially when we start to see 1Gb/s FTTH emerge. Cat6 supports 10Gb/s, Cat5e 1Gb/s and just barely.

- I'd run two Cat6 cables to each room if you can. Even if you don't use both, it is always good to have a spare in case one cable gets broken (accidentally drive a nail through it, etc.).

I'd at least do that between the living room with the UPC modem and the attic.

Also note that ethernet cables can be used for lots of different useful things other then just network. They can also be used to carry 4 phones lines, power, audio, HDMI video, IR blaster/repeaters. So the extra cable can be used for those if need be.

- I'd also run three CT100 "satellite" cables between the attic and the living room. In case you decide to move the UPC box to the attic or decide to switch to Sky HD or freesat satellite in future. Three cables would support two for satellite (record one channel, while watching a second) and the third for Saorview.

You could also think about running one or two CT100 cables to each room where you might want to have multiroom viewing.

- I think the best idea is to install ducts in the walls.

Put the cables you need now and in the short term in these ducts. But also have spare room, plus pull strings in the ducts for future upgrades. You can then pull new cables through the ducts in future (maybe you will want to install fiber to every room in 20 years from now!).

If you install big enough ducts, then you can avoid some of the above costs of extra cat6 cables or CT100 cables that you aren't currently using and install them in future as you need.

I know all of this might be some extra cost, but the truth is you can never have enough cables and the cost now of future proofing is much lower then having to dig walls again in 10 years if you want more. Big ducts is probably the most important point.

Josey Wales · 30-07-2015 3:11pm

I'll be sure to refer to this thread when I'm going through my requirements with the builder and electrician when they are ready for wiring.

mass_debater · 30-07-2015 5:28pm

Consider ceiling mounted Wi-Fi access points, run the cable for it now, thank me later

You can get POE injectors to power them over the cat5e/6 so no need to worry about that.

Josey Wales · 30-07-2015 9:23pm

mass_debater wrote: »

Consider ceiling mounted Wi-Fi access points, run the cable for it now, thank me later You can get POE injectors to power them over the cat5e/6 so no need to worry about that.

Is that not a bit of overkill? Looking up POE access points they are recommended for business premises.

mass_debater · 30-07-2015 9:38pm

Josey Wales wrote: »

Is that not a bit of overkill? Looking up POE access points they are recommended for business premises.

Not at all, Zyxel and Edimax do some cheap ones that get great reviews. Gives you the best coverage in your house without any cable issues. It's also very easy to upgrade it in future to a newer one with more modern WiFi standards. At least run the cable!!!

http://www.zyxel.com/uk/en/products_services/nwa1120_series.shtml?t=p
http://www.amazon.co.uk/ZyXEL-Ceiling-Mount-Access-Point/dp/B00M291NNA

Josey Wales · 30-07-2015 9:46pm

mass_debater wrote: »

Not at all, Zyxel and Edimax do some cheap ones that get great reviews. Gives you the best coverage in your house without any cable issues. It's also very easy to upgrade it in future to a newer one with more modern WiFi standards. At least run the cable!!!

http://www.zyxel.com/uk/en/products_services/nwa1120_series.shtml?t=p
http://www.amazon.co.uk/ZyXEL-Ceiling-Mount-Access-Point/dp/B00M291NNA

So do you connect a POE injector to a power socket to provide the power. Then connect a CAT6 cable to that and then into the ceiling access point?

mass_debater · 30-07-2015 9:52pm

Josey Wales wrote: »

So do you connect a POE injector to a power socket to provide the power. Then connect a CAT6 cable to that and then into the ceiling access point?

Exactly. It's the perfect place for an AP, on the ceiling somewhere central. In a house with wooden ceiling joists you'll cover 2 floors with one on the downstairs ceiling.

If you want to futureproof now get one that supports 802.11AC standard. I'm buying one of these when I have some spare cash (or can find a nixer I can add one to

)
https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap-ac/
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ubiquiti-Networks-UAP-AC-AP-Router/dp/B00HXT8RLK/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1438289652&sr=1-1&keywords=ubiquiti+unifi+uap-ac

moc moc a moc · 30-07-2015 9:57pm

Zynks wrote: »

CAT5 doesn't support 1gbps, but CAT5e does.

Cat 5 is not specifically designed for 1Gb/s as Cat 5e is, but it most certainly is capable of carrying gigabit ethernet.

Josey Wales · 30-07-2015 10:01pm

mass_debater wrote: »

Exactly. It's the perfect place for an AP, on the ceiling somewhere central. In a house with wooden ceiling joists you'll cover 2 floors with one on the downstairs ceiling.

If you want to futureproof now get one that supports 802.11AC standard. I'm buying one of these when I have some spare cash (or can find a nixer I can add one to )
https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap-ac/
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ubiquiti-Networks-UAP-AC-AP-Router/dp/B00HXT8RLK/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1438289652&sr=1-1&keywords=ubiquiti+unifi+uap-ac

So if I put a CAT6 cable in the ceiling on the landing that would help the signal downstairs, on the first floor and the attic I guess.

I suppose I could ask for that. If I was getting all the cables run into the attic anyway it wouldn't be too bad getting one down to the landing ceiling.

mass_debater · 30-07-2015 10:04pm

Josey Wales wrote: »

So if I put a CAT6 cable in the ceiling on the landing that would help the signal downstairs, on the first floor and the attic I guess.

I suppose I could ask for that. If I was getting all the cables run into the attic anyway it wouldn't be too bad getting one down to the landing ceiling.

I'd put it in the downstairs ceiling if it's a 2 story, landing would be too high up for good signal downstairs as you want the strongest signal where you use it most, sitting room, kitchen etc.

Josey Wales · 30-07-2015 10:08pm

mass_debater wrote: »

I'd put it in the downstairs ceiling if it's a 2 story, landing would be too high up for good signal downstairs as you want the strongest signal where you use it most, sitting room, kitchen etc.

Makes sense.

I think I will add this to the list.

Zynks · 31-07-2015 10:33am

Josey Wales wrote: »

Makes sense.

I think I will add this to the list.

I must say that is a pretty good idea. I might even look into retrofitting one in my house.

bk · 31-07-2015 11:56am

mass_debater wrote: »

Consider ceiling mounted Wi-Fi access points, run the cable for it now, thank me later You can get POE injectors to power them over the cat5e/6 so no need to worry about that.

Oh, I didn't realise POE works with 1000BASE-T (1Gb/s), I thought it was limited to 100BASE-T (100Mb/s)! That is cool, learn something new every day

Josey Wales, I'd also purchase an ethernet cable tester:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/275-1643851-4236139?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ethernet+tester

Use it to make sure the network points and cables are working when they go in.

I assume you are using electrician for this work? Most electricians aren't very experienced at installing networks and aren't really trained in it, they will often just wire in the points but not test them and you might later find that the cable was damaged or incorrectly wired.

So better to test it as they do it, before signing off on their work.

mass_debater · 31-07-2015 7:43pm

Gigabit POE has been round a few years, 802.3af is from 2003

bk · 02-08-2015 3:36pm

mass_debater wrote: »

Gigabit POE has been round a few years, 802.3af is from 2003

Yeah, it is probably longer then that since I last looked into it!

Josey Wales · 04-08-2015 8:44pm

bk wrote: »

Oh, I didn't realise POE works with 1000BASE-T (1Gb/s), I thought it was limited to 100BASE-T (100Mb/s)! That is cool, learn something new every day

Josey Wales, I'd also purchase an ethernet cable tester:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/275-1643851-4236139?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ethernet+tester

Use it to make sure the network points and cables are working when they go in.

I was looking a video of how to test a cable using one of these testers. Plug each end of the cable into the device and a signal is sent through the cable.

But how do you test a network point on the wall with one?

mass_debater · 04-08-2015 8:49pm

Josey Wales wrote: »

I was looking a video of how to test a cable using one of these testers. Plug each end of the cable into the device and a signal is sent through the cable.

But how do you test a network point on the wall with one?

With a patch lead either end

Josey Wales · 04-08-2015 9:01pm

mass_debater wrote: »

With a patch lead either end

Sorry, I'm more confused. Is that just a lead from the tester into the socket?

mass_debater · 04-08-2015 9:37pm

Josey Wales wrote: »

Sorry, I'm more confused. Is that just a lead from the tester into the socket?

Yes a standard straight through network cable

ECO_Mental · 02-10-2015 6:22pm

Ok, I am due to get FTTH next week 1Gb/s off eircom:D and I just want to make sure that I will get the best out of it. I have a small enough house 3 bed semi so I cant wire CAT6 all over the place(and the missus wont let me:() and to be honest I only need it wired for the moment in one or two places.

The pic below shows roughly my set up, in that were the router (ONT) will be and is where I will have my PC and obviously that will be connected to the router by a patch lead (they are giving the F2000 I think with the FTTH). I then have a CAT5e (can put in CAT6 if needs be) to where my XBone and eVison box will be. Is the setup below ok. So at the back of the TV I just put in a 5/6 port switch to connect the XBone and eVision box to this. My concern is I want the Xbone to be connected best as possible with the lowest ping so would it be better to not go through the switch and connect directly to the router.

I am not too concerned about WiFi coverage as the house is compact enough and timber framed so coverage is quite good. Thanks

[Removed Image]

mass_debater · 02-10-2015 6:44pm

Going through a switch will make little difference to your Xbox, packet switching is much quicker and lighter on resources than routing. If it were me I'd eventually invest in a decent gigabit switch and connect all your wired devices to it, then link it to the router. This way it would be handling all your internal traffic without adding any load to the gateway router. Not that it matters, your bottleneck will be the devices themselves.

Home renovatio, how to plan broadband setup

Comments