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Legal Advice for Auto Repair Bait & Switch Issue

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  • 24-10-2014 10:50am
    #1
    BPMD
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭


    The waterpump went on my car, it was diagnosed by my local mechanic who I trust and he said for this particular car it's a big job, since the whole engine needs to be pulled to replace it and it would be at least a day’s work and it would tie up his pit for at least a day and it could cost close to €700 to fix, as the car is 10 years old it may not be worth it and he wasn't too keen to do the job. He also said since it's an unusual car, someone who specialises in this type of car may have a short cut to facilitate a quicker repair.

    So I called a local car dealer I gave them all of my vehicle details and they quoted me €330 to fix it including parts and labour, they also told me if they order the waterpump and it isn't the problem I would still have to pay for the ordered waterpump and as I was confident the waterpump was the problem, so I agreed and I dropped the car in. The next day they called and then they tried to sell me a diagnostic charge of €90, but I told them I was confident it was the waterpump and I had already paid someone else to diagnose the problem, so they agreed to change the waterpump for the originally agreed €330. A few days later they called me back and said they had received the water pump and they had underestimated the job and it would probably cost at least €1,200 to fix. I replied, the car isn't worth that, they had originally quoted €330, so I would just collect the car and either scrap it or repair it elsewhere. They then said that I would be responsible to pay for the waterpump which costs €110, I have looked the part up on line and I can get it delivered including VAT for as low as €34. After further discussions, they also indicated i will have to pay for the waterpump and 1/2 hrs labour or they will not release the car. If I do pay them this BLOOD money, I am 100% confident I will win in small claims court, but I can't understand how they have the audacity to even try this! This is the typical "bait and switch", where they quote one price and then try to quadruple the price later. I'm not saying this is a small job, but they misquoted the price, I'm not asking them to honour this price, but i refuse to pay them anything. What other options do I have?


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    #2
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Th relevant phrase is a mechanics lien. this thread might be useful to you

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=52659358


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    #3
    BPMD
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭BPMD


    Hi Beano,
    Thanks for the link and it's interesting, but I think this case is a little different. Firstly, how van there be a lien against a vehicle if 1) they haven't actually done anything to the car 2) they misquoted in the first place? It's also interesting that it says "you can only rescind if the work he's done is reversable.", well it is reversable, because they haven't done anything.

    Sadly, I'm afraid I may need to pay to get the car back, although I am still confident I will win in small claims court, but you never know they way this country is going and i was hoping there might be an easier method.


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    #4
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    You may get better advice in the Motors forum.


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    #5
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    The dealer most likely ordered a Genuine (branded by car maker) or OEM part (made by same supplier to car maker to same standard). The part you see on the internet is probably a cheap spurious part of unknown quality which a) may not be an exact fit and b) may not last. As you already mentioned, your car is unusual so good quality parts are likely to be expensive.

    You also accepted responsibility for the pump without any idea of their price so unless you can demonstrate they're charging a wildly excessive price for the part I don't see how you can legitimately dispute that portion of the bill. I would dispute the 1/2 hr labour though, imo that's their lookout for misquoting the job.


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    #6
    BPMD
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭BPMD


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    You also accepted responsibility for the pump without any idea of their price so unless you can demonstrate they're charging a wildly excessive price for the part I don't see how you can legitimately dispute that portion of the bill. I would dispute the 1/2 hr labour though, imo that's their lookout for misquoting the job.
    Hi SlimJim, I didn't accepted any responsibility for the pump, I just agreed to the full replacement of the pump including parts and labour of €330 and now they want to charge me half of that after doing nothing.


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    #7
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    they tried to sell me a diagnostic charge of €90, but I told them I was confident it was the waterpump and I had already paid someone else to diagnose the problem

    This is probably their half hour labour. You said that you had it diagnosed already but you cant expect them to stand over their work unless they do their own investigation. If they had replaced the water pump and it then turned out that the original diagnosis was incorrect would you hold them responsible or would you go back to the original mechanic and ask for compensation from him?

    What type of car is it and does the local car dealer specialise in this marque?


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    #8
    BPMD
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭BPMD


    Beano wrote: »
    This is probably their half hour labour. You said that you had it diagnosed already but you cant expect them to stand over their work unless they do their own investigation. If they had replaced the water pump and it then turned out that the original diagnosis was incorrect would you hold them responsible or would you go back to the original mechanic and ask for compensation from him?

    What type of car is it and does the local car dealer specialise in this marque?

    The point is, I never asked or agreed them to diagnose it, I just asked them to change the waterpump and I agreed if after replacing the pump it turned out the pump wasn't the problem, I'd still pay them the €330, but in the end they did nothing to the car and expect me to pay for a highly marked up pump that they didn't take out of the box and labour, when the only labour they did was to look at it and determine their original quote was wrong!


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    #9
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    BPMD wrote: »
    The point is, I never asked or agreed them to diagnose it, I just asked them to change the waterpump and I agreed if after replacing the pump it turned out the pump wasn't the problem, I'd still pay them the €330, but in the end they did nothing to the car and expect me to pay for a highly marked up pump that they didn't take out of the box and labour, when the only labour they did was to look at it and determine their original quote was wrong!

    But sure they have to diagnose the problem? Do you not see that? They need to be able to stand over what they do. To give you an analogy :

    Say you went to a dentist and he told you that you need two fillings on the right hand side at the very back. He doesn't want to do the work as its too much hassle so you then decide to go to another dentist down the road. You tell him not to bother doing any investigation as you wont pay him for that and that you just want him to fill the two teeth at the back. He decides to investigate anyway and discovers that you in fact need 2 root canal treatments and not just 2 fillings and this will be considerably more than the price quoted by the first dentist. Would you expect to just walk out without paying the second dentist for his time?


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    #10
    BPMD
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭BPMD


    Beano wrote: »
    But sure they have to diagnose the problem? Do you not see that? They need to be able to stand over what they do.
    Hi Beano, you're missing the point. Yes, I told them not to diagnose the car and they agreed and in fact they still haven't done a diagnosis on the car. Using your analogy, I went to dentist 2 asking him how much would it cost to fill tooth number 13 and he gave me a quote for €330 and he says "I'm just filling tooth 13 for this price and anything else will be extra" and I agree. Then when I get to the dentist and he looks in my mouth he sees that tooth 13 is impacted and it's going to take more work than he anticipated and tells me, "well, tooth 13 is a bit trickier than i thought, so that'll be €1,200", I could then get up and walk away and would he be right in charging me €200 to look in my mouth for 1 minute and not doing anything? Also, my car situation is also a bit different, since although my car may not be a common model, it's not modified, so it wouldn't be unique like an impacted tooth. Once again, after looking at the car they realised it was a bigger job than they quoted and although they have done nothing other than order the part and look at the car for a few minutes, they want me to pay for their underestimation.


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    #11
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    BPMD wrote: »
    Hi Beano, you're missing the point. Yes, I told them not to diagnose the car and they agreed and in fact they still haven't done a diagnosis on the car. Using your analogy, I went to dentist 2 asking him how much would it cost to fill tooth number 13 and he gave me a quote for €330 and he says "I'm just filling tooth 13 for this price and anything else will be extra" and I agree. Then when I get to the dentist and he looks in my mouth he sees that tooth 13 is impacted and it's going to take more work than he anticipated and tells me, "well, tooth 13 is a bit trickier than i thought, so that'll be €1,200", I could then get up and walk away and would he be right in charging me €200 to look in my mouth for 1 minute and not doing anything? ...

    Yes he would. He has done something. He has investigated the problem.


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    #12
    rozeboosje
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭rozeboosje


    I think you lost the argument when you insisted that they order the part before giving them the chance to investigate the matter first. Now they are left holding a part for an
    BPMD wrote: »
    unusual car
    , what are they going to do with it?


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    #13
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,143 ✭✭✭plodder


    I've had appliances repaired on the basis that I'd be charged 50 quid to just take a look at it and if it's repairable then the 50 quid would be taken off the repair bill. In other words, the repairer was admitting some uncertainty about being able to do the job, and was pricing the investigation work into the deal. That seems like a reasonable way to work, so long as you are up front about it.

    If you claim you will repair the thing for 300 euro, then it's pretty sharp practice to turn around and say sorry I won't do it, but give me 110 euro for the part that I think you need. The correct thing to do would have been to stick to the original quote, even if it takes more work than you allowed for. You're supposed to be an expert and know what you are doing.


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    #14
    rozeboosje
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭rozeboosje


    You told them
    BPMD wrote: »
    [you were] confident it was the waterpump and [you] had already paid someone else to diagnose the problem

    so you effectively told them how big you KNEW the job was going to be. They took that on good faith, seein' as "the customer is always right" and so on, but when the car arrived it turned out that you actually didn't.


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    #15
    BPMD
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭BPMD


    rozeboosje wrote: »
    Now they are left holding a part for an , what are they going to do with it?
    Send it back to the supplier, all reputable suppliers will take parts back if the box is unopened. Also, the price for the part is unreasonable and obviously includes their excessive mark-up. It's their error, they misquoted the job, why should I pay for their mistakes? If anything, I should be asking them to stand behind their original quote to do the job for €330.


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    #16
    BPMD
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭BPMD


    rozeboosje wrote: »
    You told them
    so you effectively told them how big you KNEW the job was going to be. They took that on good faith, seein' as "the customer is always right" and so on, but when the car arrived it turned out that you actually didn't.

    Rozeboosje, I never told them "how big the job would be", I just told them what needed to be done and what i wanted done and they quoted a price! They're supposed to be the experts, if they can't honour their original quote, I should have 3 options:
    1) They give me a new quote which I can accept or refuse to accept. I refused to accept their new quote.
    2) I walk away and pay them for nothing, since they did nothing, other than cause me to lose another week of being without a car.
    3) They could honour their original quote and do just what was agreed for the agreed price.

    There should never be an option 4, where the party that misquoted the job and inconvenienced the customer, get's fully compensated, despite doing nothing to the car.


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    #17
    BPMD
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭BPMD


    Update
    Thanks for all the replies and advice, but it’s all been resolved and I collected the car. I think what got them was when they said I authorised them to buy the part, I answered that it was under the assumption the whole job would cost €330 and then I started pushing them to complete the job for €330, although I acknowledge €330 might not be enough for this job and I had no intention of holding them to it. I also let them know that it was their inaccurate quote that caused the issue and they should take some responsibility for their error. The manager I spoke with seemed to initially deny that they quoted to do the full job for €330 I told them I had a saved voice-mail from them stated this and offered to play it for them and then they said they would check the paper work and get back to me. A few minutes later, they called back without actually acknowledging any fault of their own and said I could collect the car without the pump and no charge. Thanks again for all the advice and I’m glad I didn't need to go to small claims or escalate this any further.


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    #18
    rozeboosje
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭rozeboosje


    All's well that ends well.


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    #19
    billy few mates
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    What type of car is it...?


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    #20
    Wheelnut
    Registered Users Posts: 977 ✭✭✭Wheelnut


    An indy quotes €700, A dealer quotes €330 ? If something seems too good to be true then it is too good to be true!


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