Beef in Crisis

Kovu · 21-08-2014 8:35pm #1

Thread split away from Beef General thread.

leg wax · 22-08-2014 8:49am

Thread split away from Beef General thread. G.

i think that the likes of tesco and others do not want irish or english beef anymore,because they have to pay to much for it,so if they point blank refuse to pay for it, the irish beef will then no be abel to supply their needs and they can then go off and buy it a lot cheaper from anywhere in the world and make more money off it. what are your thoughts on this..........

whelan2 · 22-08-2014 8:51am

just heard a snippet of Simon Coveney on morning ireland, waffling on about feck all

I said · 22-08-2014 8:55am

Yes he said there is no cartel in the beef industry

Damo810 · 22-08-2014 8:56am

whelan2 wrote: »

just heard a snippet of Simon Coveney on morning ireland, waffling on about feck all

It's always the same, a few words about beef that mean absolutely nothing. A true politician.

Damo810 · 22-08-2014 9:03am

http://www.agriland.ie/news/cartel-irish-beef-industry-say-coveney/

leoch · 22-08-2014 9:30am

well i wouldnt buy meat in tescos if my life depended on it or any supermarket for that matter (i like to buy in our small local butchers who i see buying cattle at our local marts)but i wonder would people who do buy from these supermarkets be better buying in irish owned places like supervalue and dunnes stores ,were do these two buy there meat ?

Farmer Pudsey · 22-08-2014 10:00am

leoch wrote: »

well i wouldnt buy meat in tescos if my life depended on it or any supermarket for that matter (i like to buy in our small local butchers who i see buying cattle at our local marts)but i wonder would people who do buy from these supermarkets be better buying in irish owned places like supervalue and dunnes stores ,were do these two buy there meat ?

It is as simple as this, it matter little where you decide to buy your meat, or any Irish person in fact. Just like stupid protests at Irish supermarkets.

We EXPORT 90% of the beef we produce. Wheather we like it or not ordinary consumers buy there meat in supermarkets wheater it is Tesco, Lidl/Aldi, Supervalue, Dunnes, SPAR Centra, the list in Ireland is endless before you go to the UK and addin Sainbury, ASDA or Eleclerc and SuperU etc in france.

It is easy for our great leader Simon to say there is no Cartel. How come it must be coincidence that every processor, decided to pull prices togeather the second week in August after they all hinting at it the week before to drive supply.

The reality at this stage we need to pull the plug on QA and let the Processor's and Board Bia, and the government that if we cannot make money out of beef neither will anyone else. When you want to win a fight you need to be able to accept pain as well as dish it out. QA is not serving farmers it gives an artificial higher price to ''R'' grade cattle under 30 months, and now under 400kgs. This sh!te that spec has not change is just that. sh!te. Everything that can be penalised at thsi stage is penalised. P+ or less, over 400 kgs, over 30 months, fat score below 2+ or above 4=, Bulls are persona no gratia. The QA is no longer any use we should pull out unless they reform it. Is 20% of cattle getting the Bonus. In yesterdays FJ the price of Beef is 4.2/kg for hormone produced beef with no tracebility, yet for grass fed beef that is tracebile, no hormones we are getting 60c/kg less. On top of that 80% of cattle do not qualify for bonus. It is time we got rid of it.

The attituide that we can have a painless/bloodless battle is ridicilous. It the same with winterfinishing this year.In general farmers should scale back or not finish at all. The real reson for the present downturn is to encourage finishers to fill shed again with cheap store. However I am not sure if they will be as cheap as the processors think. There is resistance by store producers and you will still need a price north of 4/kg to break even.

There is a perception that cheap stores are the answer, however this is only transfering the loss back down the line. We need 4/kg+ to produce cattle.

Willfarman · 22-08-2014 10:06am

The irish beef farmer is the poster boy for a lot of advertising campaigns. This is our trump card. Protesting at the retail outlets is the right move.

We need to make the consumer aware that we produce the beef for no profit for the processers to triple the price of it across the counter..
That we don't go for a burger in macdonalds with the girlfriend after a spot of fencing with the Massey to feel the pride of producing a qaulity product for nothing.. Or enjoy a trip to aldi to see the beef we produced below the price of production too get the "buzz" of seeing it on the shelf making money for German tycoons.

Charliebull · 22-08-2014 10:12am

simx wrote: »

Cull cows

Jayus culls are worth more than breeding cows, that says it all,

Miname wrote: »

have the spring born calves going onto ration from today(the last of 16%), old mans going to pick up a share of calf 18 for them in the morning. Got quoted 380 a ton, anyone anything cheaper at the 18%.

That seems very dear and in current market, will it even pay

Willfarman wrote: »

The irish beef farmer is the poster boy for a lot of advertising campaigns. This is our trump card. Protesting at the retail outlets is the right move.

We need to make the consumer aware that we produce the beef for no profit for the processers to triple the price of it across the counter..
That we don't go for a burger in macdonalds with the girlfriend after a spot of fencing with the Massey to feel the pride of producing a qaulity product for nothing.. Or enjoy a trip to aldi to see the beef we produced below the price of production too get the "buzz" of seeing it on the shelf making money for German tycoons.

Ask yourself this, what do you think of the rail strikes or the guard strikes, I for one not impressed, so what do you think ordinary joe thinks of farmers strikes

Strikes don't work in our industry,

Willfarman · 22-08-2014 10:12am

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

It is as simple as this, it matter little where you decide to buy your meat, or any Irish person in fact. Just like stupid protests at Irish supermarkets.

We EXPORT 90% of the beef we produce. Wheather we like it or not ordinary consumers buy there meat in supermarkets wheater it is Tesco, Lidl/Aldi, Supervalue, Dunnes, SPAR Centra, the list in Ireland is endless before you go to the UK and addin Sainbury, ASDA or Eleclerc and SuperU etc in france.

It is easy for our great leader Simon to say there is no Cartel. How come it must be coincidence that every processor, decided to pull prices togeather the second week in August after they all hinting at it the week before to drive supply.

The reality at this stage we need to pull the plug on QA and let the Processor's and Board Bia, and the government that if we cannot make money out of beef neither will anyone else. When you want to win a fight you need to be able to accept pain as well as dish it out. QA is not serving farmers it gives an artificial higher price to ''R'' grade cattle under 30 months, and now under 400kgs. This sh!te that spec has not change is just that. sh!te. Everything that can be penalised at thsi stage is penalised. P+ or less, over 400 kgs, over 30 months, fat score below 2+ or above 4=, Bulls are persona no gratia. The QA is no longer any use we should pull out unless they reform it. Is 20% of cattle getting the Bonus. In yesterdays FJ the price of Beef is 4.2/kg for hormone produced beef with no tracebility, yet for grass fed beef that is tracebile, no hormones we are getting 60c/kg less. On top of that 80% of cattle do not qualify for bonus. It is time we got rid of it.

The attituide that we can have a painless/bloodless battle is ridicilous. It the same with winterfinishing this year.In general farmers should scale back or not finish at all. The real reson for the present downturn is to encourage finishers to fill shed again with cheap store. However I am not sure if they will be as cheap as the processors think. There is resistance by store producers and you will still need a price north of 4/kg to break even.

There is a perception that cheap stores are the answer, however this is only transfering the loss back down the line. We need 4/kg+ to produce cattle.

The resistance from the store producers will only last as long as the grass,
It's not resistance that's holding up the job , it's farmer buyers with grass still bidding.

ellewood · 22-08-2014 10:23am

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

It is as simple as this, it matter little where you decide to buy your meat, or any Irish person in fact. Just like stupid protests at Irish supermarkets.

We EXPORT 90% of the beef we produce. Wheather we like it or not ordinary consumers buy there meat in supermarkets wheater it is Tesco, Lidl/Aldi, Supervalue, Dunnes, SPAR Centra, the list in Ireland is endless before you go to the UK and addin Sainbury, ASDA or Eleclerc and SuperU etc in france.

It is easy for our great leader Simon to say there is no Cartel. How come it must be coincidence that every processor, decided to pull prices togeather the second week in August after they all hinting at it the week before to drive supply.

The reality at this stage we need to pull the plug on QA and let the Processor's and Board Bia, and the government that if we cannot make money out of beef neither will anyone else. When you want to win a fight you need to be able to accept pain as well as dish it out. QA is not serving farmers it gives an artificial higher price to ''R'' grade cattle under 30 months, and now under 400kgs. This sh!te that spec has not change is just that. sh!te. Everything that can be penalised at thsi stage is penalised. P+ or less, over 400 kgs, over 30 months, fat score below 2+ or above 4=, Bulls are persona no gratia. The QA is no longer any use we should pull out unless they reform it. Is 20% of cattle getting the Bonus. In yesterdays FJ the price of Beef is 4.2/kg for hormone produced beef with no tracebility, yet for grass fed beef that is tracebile, no hormones we are getting 60c/kg less. On top of that 80% of cattle do not qualify for bonus. It is time we got rid of it.

The attituide that we can have a painless/bloodless battle is ridicilous. It the same with winterfinishing this year.In general farmers should scale back or not finish at all. The real reson for the present downturn is to encourage finishers to fill shed again with cheap store. However I am not sure if they will be as cheap as the processors think. There is resistance by store producers and you will still need a price north of 4/kg to break even.

There is a perception that cheap stores are the answer, however this is only transfering the loss back down the line. We need 4/kg+ to produce cattle.

That's it pretty much in a nutshell agree 100%

I had a BB inspection last week, it was the whole farm that was inspected and when I send an animal to factory just because its 1 grade or fat score its suddenly not QA bull****.

Im all for QA I think everyone should be QA even if not killing cattle (its only stuff you should be doing anyways) but its gone to the stage now where its just a stick to beat us with, so I say **** their QA why give them the best quality QA beef, hormone free reared on grass mainly when there only selling it to whoever will take it from them at x amount, giving them their margin of y so their happy and if the amount they get - x, reduces to keep their margin at y all they do is drop price to farmers. Imo they are looking for the top end spec to supply uk markets demands and only paying bottom dollar for it, if hormore treated beef reared on grain in a feedlot is now making more per kg tthan QA prime irish beef something is very wrong.

Willfarman · 22-08-2014 10:24am

Charliebull wrote: »

Jayus culls are worth more than breeding cows, that says it all,

That seems very dear and in current market, will it even pay

Ask yourself this, what do you think of the rail strikes or the guard strikes, I for one not impressed, so what do you think ordinary joe thinks of farmers strikes

Strikes don't work in our industry,

Yes unfortunately protests by "angry farmers" seem to be the only string in the ifa fiddle.
We need to make the consumer aware that the irish farmer is being robbed of his share of the retail price of the beef. That this is money being robbed out of their local economy. Yes it's important not to inconvenience people and try to get them on side. We need to wisen up. A change of tactics is needed. We need a public relations campaign in this regard really.

Farmer Pudsey · 22-08-2014 10:24am

Willfarman wrote: »

The irish beef farmer is the poster boy for a lot of advertising campaigns. This is our trump card. Protesting at the retail outlets is the right move.

We need to make the consumer aware that we produce the beef for no profit for the processers to triple the price of it across the counter..
That we don't go for a burger in macdonalds with the girlfriend after a spot of fencing with the Massey to feel the pride of producing a qaulity product for nothing.. Or enjoy a trip to aldi to see the beef we produced below the price of production too get the "buzz" of seeing it on the shelf making money for German tycoons.

The problem is that 90% of our consumers do not hear about it. 90% of our beef is exported. A protest in a Tesco's in Navan, a Lidl in Arklow or an Aldi in Blanchardtown is not going to make SKY news in the UK so it matters little to Tesco's ASDA or Sainbury's in the UK.

So prpotests at Retail outlets while it get the IFA leader's on the News at 6 it is a waste of time. Even if it hit SKY Uk it would be a one day wonder for 1-2 minutes half way through the news for 2-3 showing's. It would be a filler if they could get nothing else.

ellewood · 22-08-2014 10:42am

Willfarman wrote: »

The irish beef farmer is the poster boy for a lot of advertising campaigns. This is our trump card. Protesting at the retail outlets is the right move.

We need to make the consumer aware that we produce the beef for no profit for the processers to triple the price of it across the counter..
That we don't go for a burger in macdonalds with the girlfriend after a spot of fencing with the Massey to feel the pride of producing a qaulity product for nothing.. Or enjoy a trip to aldi to see the beef we produced below the price of production too get the "buzz" of seeing it on the shelf making money for German tycoons.

Sadly most consumers don't care that were producing top quality beef at a loss.
As long as they can afford meat for dinner most, not all, don't care once price is right and taste is ok, they don't care whether it comes from arklow, antrim or argentina and they really don't care that its being produced at a loss once they can afford it.

Willfarman · 22-08-2014 10:42am

Well I suppose we should send the "angry farmers" to protest at the export plants!
and maybe a few well placed billboards should be placed near every supermarket here? to at raise consumer awareness to our case. Social media campaign and a media ad to counteract the nonsense the they would have the consumer believe that they are "supporting irish farmers". When in reality the are robbing the country really.

Willfarman · 22-08-2014 10:47am

ellewood wrote: »

Sadly most consumers don't care that were producing top quality beef at a loss.
As long as they can afford meat for dinner most, not all, don't care once price is right and taste is ok, they don't care whether it comes from arklow, antrim or argentina and they really don't care that its being produced at a loss once they can afford it.

It's being produced at a loss yes. But it's not being processed and retailed at a loss. Big money is being made and it's being taken from local economies. Our costs are available readily but there is no transparency beyond the factory gates.

FYM · 22-08-2014 11:38am

leg wax wrote: »

i think that the likes of tesco and others do not want irish or english beef anymore,because they have to pay to much for it,so if they point blank refuse to pay for it, the irish beef will then no be abel to supply their needs and they can then go off and buy it a lot cheaper from anywhere in the world and make more money off it. what are your thoughts on this..........

couldnt agree more it will be soon tesco home brand beef from botswana. what happened the premium irish beef label all i hear is processors and bord bia trying to sell our premium beef to cut price outlets

mf240 · 22-08-2014 12:22pm

The best way to protest is to give away meat outside the supermarkets.

And include a brochure detailing what it takes to rear beef to slaughter and the pittance we get.

This is the only way to get the consumer on side.

Toplink · 22-08-2014 12:28pm

FYM wrote: »

couldnt agree more it will be soon tesco home brand beef from botswana. what happened the premium irish beef label all i hear is processors and bord bia trying to sell our premium beef to cut price outlets

Here is my completely unqualified opinion.

There are markets there for a high quality grass fed beef product... organic beef farming appears to be closest to the mark in meeting this market.

For example, I follow a few top performing athletic/biohacker groups in the states and they are mad to get their hands on clean grass few beef. There are thousands and thousands of these types who will pay top dollar for this stuff. There are organic options in the states that supply the requirement currently but there is still a market there...

Irish beef needs to differentiate itself from the standard world beef product, a lot of producers will fall off the wagon on this journey... but for those who want to survive in the long term in the beef game, change is needed.

The food chain is coming full circle for those with money to spend. The information is there to show that cheap food will reduce your life expectancy. There are no short cuts in reality and those with money will pay for good food.

whelan2 · 22-08-2014 12:54pm

Toplink wrote: »

Here is my completely unqualified opinion.

There are markets there for a high quality grass fed beef product... organic beef farming appears to be closest to the mark in meeting this market.

For example, I follow a few top performing athletic/biohacker groups in the states and they are mad to get their hands on clean grass few beef. There are thousands and thousands of these types who will pay top dollar for this stuff. There are organic options in the states that supply the requirement currently but there is still a market there...

Irish beef needs to differentiate itself from the standard world beef product, a lot of producers will fall off the wagon on this journey... but for those who want to survive in the long term in the beef game, change is needed.

The food chain is coming full circle for those with money to spend. The information is there to show that cheap food will reduce your life expectancy. There are no short cuts in reality and those with money will pay for good food.

so why arent bord bia doing this? Aldi are doing more promoting of irish beef than bord bia are

whelan2 · 22-08-2014 1:23pm

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/editorial-coveney-s-comments-will-fuel-farmer-anger-164046/

Damo810 · 22-08-2014 1:33pm

whelan2 wrote: »

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/editorial-coveney-s-comments-will-fuel-farmer-anger-164046/

Very good article.

I was thinking (believe it or not!) with the large amount of boardsies and farmers on twitter, along with our minister (who seems to be blind towards the feelings of farmers), would it be possible that we all sent a link (such as the IFJ one above) or we composed a message here that we all sent to minister Coveney?

I said · 22-08-2014 2:20pm

whelan2 wrote: »

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/editorial-coveney-s-comments-will-fuel-farmer-anger-164046/

Isn't his brother tied in with the meat industry

rangler1 · 22-08-2014 2:33pm

FYM wrote: »

Rangler i dont mean to have a go at u here but that is very disapointing. the tone of your above quote it that i am lucky and i should b greatful. it is the sheer (percieved) lack of fight from the IFA that has beef farmers totally bewildered. just because they did it to lambs pigs and chickens we should accept it in beef... look at those sectors now completely dominated by imports. if the IFA are fighting tooth and nail for the beef industry it isn't been effectively communicated to farmer on the ground or the industry stakeholders.

just a taught

that's rubbish anyway, I said it as a sheep farmer, I have been selling to spec for the last twenty years, I've geared my system to produce 21kg lambs, and when I was at suckling was producing 360kg - 400kg charolais carcases at 18 - 22mths.
I've actually resigned from IFA because I believe farmers no longer deserve my time.

Username John · 22-08-2014 2:37pm

I said wrote: »

Isn't his brother tied in with the meat industry

I am not a fan of the current minister by any means - but I am not sure what his brother's job has to do with anything.

I said · 22-08-2014 2:58pm

Username John wrote: »

I am not a fan of the current minister by any means - but I am not sure what his brother's job has to do with anything.

Well if you don't think there is anything in it I admire your stance but it stinks as far as I'm concerned

Username John · 22-08-2014 3:06pm

I said wrote: »

Well if you don't think there is anything in it I admire your stance but it stinks as far as I'm concerned

Fair enough... maybe we should only let lads who have no brothers and sisters have such jobs.

I said · 22-08-2014 3:11pm

Username John wrote: »

Fair enough... maybe we should only let lads who have no brothers and sisters have such jobs.

That's a great attitude the minister is on the media and to all intents and purposes is sounding like a sound byte for the processors and retailers and doesn't appear to be attempting to help the beef finishers so excuse me for questioning the mans commitment to the beef finishers while his brother is in the employ of one of those processors.Does it not appear that there may be a perceived conflict of interest?

Username John · 22-08-2014 3:24pm

I said wrote: »

That's a great attitude the minister is on the media and to all intents and purposes is sounding like a sound byte for the processors and retailers and doesn't appear to be attempting to help the beef finishers so excuse me for questioning the mans commitment to the beef finishers while his brother is in the employ of one of those processors.Does it not appear that there may be a perceived conflict of interest?

I don't disagree with you on your statement above.

I heard him on RTE this morning, and he had nothing useful to say, his first response when asked about a solution was they had secured CAP funding, so the SFP.... nothing on improving the actual price being paid.

But - I think we need to tackle the issue that he is doing a shi'te job. Whether he is related to the pope is only adding noise, and takes from the argument... in my view.

EDIT : I should also say, that even if was doing a great job, what his brother does should have no bearing. If your brother got a job in the local mart, would you stop using the mart? Should you stop using the mart?

leg wax · 22-08-2014 3:31pm

why cant the minister get more factories up and running ,wernt the chinese here not so long ago looking for food, if they wanted wagu beef no better man then the irish farmer to produce it for them,more competition .

Beef in Crisis

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