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Who counts as a victim?

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    whitelines wrote: »
    The role of The UDR and RUC was to keep the rule of law, as with security forces everywhere.

    Sure they were - in your little fantasy world.

    Let's go back to 1969 and see how well these upstanding gents in the RUC were performing.
    14 July 1969 Francis McCloskey (67) Catholic
    Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC)
    Died one day after being hit on head with batons during street disturbances, Dungiven, County Derry.

    17 July 1969 Samuel Devenny (42) Catholic
    Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC)
    Died three months after being badly beaten in his home, William Street, Bogside, Derry. He was injured on 19 April 1969.

    14 August 1969 John Gallagher (30) Catholic
    Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Ulster Special Constabulary (USC)
    Shot during street disturbances, Cathedral Road, Armagh.

    14 August 1969 Patrick Rooney (9) Catholic
    Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC)
    Shot at his home, during nearby street disturbances, St Brendan's Path, Divis Flats, Belfast.

    15 August 1969 Hugh McCabe (20) Catholic
    Status: British Army (BA), Killed by: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC)
    On leave. Shot during street disturbances while on the roof of Whitehall Block, Divis Flats, Belfast.

    15 August 1969 Samuel McLarnon (27) Catholic
    Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC)
    Shot at his home during nearby street disturbances, Herbert Street, Ardoyne, Belfast.

    15 August 1969 Michael Lynch (28) Catholic
    Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC)
    Shot during street disturbances, Butler Street, Ardoyne, Belfast.

    01 December 1969 Patrick Corry (61) Catholic
    Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC)
    Died four months after being hit on the head with batons, during altercation between local people and Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) patrol, Unity Flats, off Upper Library Street, Belfast. Injured on 2nd August 1969.

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/chron/1969.html

    Let's take a look at the UDR (a considerable number of which came from the dregs of the Unionist community) (From the subversion in the UDR investigation by the British)
    Joint membership of the UDA (which had objectives incompatible with those of HMG) and the UDR, became widespread, and at the same time the rate of UDR weapons losses greatly increased. Subsequently a number of UDR members with traces in other subversive organisations have come to note.

    Some members of the UDR, who also belong to subversive groups, undoubtedly lead 'double lives', and even with the aid of intelligence it is occasionally difficult to persuade a CO that one of his men is a risk. Indicative, but not typical, is the case of a member of 1 UDR, apparently a good citizen (the Deputy Chairman of a District Council) who had the following traces:
    a. Subject was OC of Ballymena UDA
    b. Subject had obtained ammunition for the UDA
    c. Subject was suspected of illegal arms dealings, and of acquiring an SLR and an SMG in Scotland, and of selling them to the UDA.

    He was however described by his CO as 'a model soldier'.


    It seems likely that a significant proportion (perhaps five per cent - in some areas as high as 15 per cent) of UDR soldiers will also be members of the UDA, Vanguard service corps, Orange Volunteers or UVF.

    LOSS OF ARMS AND AMMUNITION

    11. Since the beginning of the current campaign the best single source of weapons (and the only significant source of modern weapons) for Protestant extremist groups has been the UDR.

    We've been here before though haven't we?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    whitelines wrote: »
    The Third Force killed nobody. The role of The UDR and RUC was to keep the rule of law, as with security forces everywhere. Of course, individual UDR and RUC members held their own personal political views - which they were entitled to.

    You'll find that the UDR and RUC did rather more (or less, depending how you take it) than just "uphold the law". Thats why theres so many historical investigations. Theres also a distinct difference between donating money and time to a political party and donating time, arms and intelligence to terrorist groups.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    MOD NOTE:

    After so many warnings, why even bother?

    Closed.


This discussion has been closed.
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