Eircom to roll out 1Gb/s FTTH to 66 towns

hfallada wrote: »

Hopefully there will be competition between internet providers and it puts an end to the constant price increases of UPC

Err... UPC has been reducing their prices and are by far the cheapest.

Just two months ago they reduced their prices as so:

- 120Mb from €44 to €40
- 200Mb, increased to 240Mb + unlimited mobile calls from €55 to €45, really incredible value for money.

The prices they have been increasing is TV services. But that is mostly driven by wholesale prices increases from TV channel companies like Sky and is largely outside of UPC's control.

tv221 wrote: »

Yes UPC have stopped expanding. I can think of numerous area's with hundreds of houses within a few meters of existing network that don't cross busy roads or other such hindrances that have not be cabled as they can't be bothered. Didn't their CEO say they wouldn't look outside current footprint.

So far they aren't expanding outside their current footprint. However they are doing infill within their footprint. For instance just one year ago, my own apartment building was retrofitted with UPC.

However it should be noted that two weeks ago, UPC Irelands parent company, Virgin Media announced a massive expansion in the UK. They are going to spend £3 Billion to expand out to 5 million new homes. So the same could happen here too.

I'd say it will depend on the ESB/Vodafones FTTH plans. If the ESB goes ahead with their rollout, targeting non-UPC urban areas, then there would be little point with UPC expanding into these areas, trying to compete with both ESB FTTH and Eircom FTTC/FTTH.

You don't seem to understand the history behind UPC's entry into the Irish market and the reasons for doing what they did, which actually make a great deal of business and financial sense.

When UPC bought NTL Ireland and Chorus, they found that the existing cable network was in bits. Much of it was built in the 70's and could barely handle digital TV services, never mind high speed broadband. Their first property was to completely rip up and replace this entire network, yes even the coax cables to every home, with a modern hybrid fiber coax network.

The reason this made sense, was that it would allow them to deliver a better TV experience to their existing customers and thus retain them in the face of strong new competition from Sky and then upsell these customers on lovely high speed broadband. It is much easier to up sell to existing customers that you already have a relationship with (billing, etc.) then try and win completely new customers.

This upgrade work is still ongoing, it only makes sense for UPC to start thinking about expanding into new areas, once this work is complete.

Also you seem to be making a mistake in thinking that Eircom are expanding FTTH into rural areas. They aren't.

What they are planning to do is expand FTTH into high density towns around Ireland. If you live a few km outside of these towns, then no, you won't be getting FTTH, either from Eircom or ESB/Vodafone.

It simply doesn't make economic sense for any commercial company, Eircom, ESB or UPC to expand into low density rural areas.

These areas will require subsidies to make it happen, which will hopefully come as part of the NBP.

murphaph wrote: »

Long term that's potentially a dangerous business model of course (expand or die etc.). It allows Eircom/ESB to just walk in to non-UPC estates and hook customers up to FTTH. Nobody will move backwards from FTTH to coax cable, so these customers will be extremely difficult to win over to UPC (and only then with FTTH as no matter how fast UPC can sweat their coax, the ESB or Eircom can just push their FTTH up to 11 and it will always be able to go to 11)

Eircom and the ESB will gradually go around rolling out FTTH avoiding UPC but in a few years they will run out of "alternative areas" and will start targeting UPC areas with FTTH (if UPC haven't already upgraded to FTTH themselves, but of course they have the best copper network that has far more bandwidth than a phone line so they are naturally going to be the least inclined to push FTTH the last bit. Maybe the'll look at a coax equivalent of G.Fast, which would allow them to replace the coax running along the fascia board or outside in the duct to be replaced with fibre and the last 10 feet with (what is a very high bandwidth) coax cable.

Hugely interesting times ahead.

It many ways UPC's existing Hybrid Fiber Coax (HFC) network is already like G.Fast. UPC's HFC network brings fiber much closer to peoples homes then Eircoms FTTC cabinets generally do.

With the high quality coax network and DOCSIS 3.1, UPC will easily be able to hit 1Gb/s on their existing network.

And they will able to do this without an expensive FTTH rollout. I believe that UPC's game plan will involve bringing up to 1Gb/s speeds to people for about €10 to €20 per month cheaper then FTTH and without the high install charge of FTTH. That should be more then good enough for most people and should keep them very competitive versus FTTH.

If UPC were to do what you suggest and bring fiber within 10 meters of peoples homes, they could hit 10Gb/s over the existing coax!

Though I don't expect they will do that. If you bring the fiber within 10 meters of the house, then you might as well go all the way and run it right into the house, specially given the way UPC strings coax cable from house to house along the eaves. They can easily do the same with FTTH.

Also Eircom opening up their ducts could really help UPC with this.

This is why the ESB are largely avoiding UPC areas, UPC are very well placed to fend off any competition. Though I do expect Eircom will target these UPC areas with FTTH to stem the flow of customers to UPC and maybe even win some back.

Random_Name wrote: »

They'll need to seriously improve their routers! I'm using the ubee one at the moment. Things are bad when the Sky Hub 1.0 was better. A discussion for another thread though probably

Agreed, UPC CPE (Customer Premises Equipment), both broadband and TV, is very poor, which is surprising given how good their network is and that is the hard part!

However their is hope, UPC Ireland is now part of Virgin Media and VM have by far the best CPE gear of any ISP. Their broadband routers are superb, dual radio, dual band models with excellent wireless performance and full support for bridging. They even have a new 802.11ac model in testing at the moment!

On the TV side they use the superb and highly regarded TiVo box. Both their broadband routers and TiVo box are considered by far the best in the UK market.

Hopefully this partnership will have a positive effect on UPC Ireland's CPE.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I'm sorry if you think I missed the point and that it is amusing for you. My question was what was the motivation for Eircom to continue upgrading the service available to me and hundreds of thousands of others who never got any offer from UPC.

The point of Eircom upgrading their network is largely a defensive one. If they upgrade the network where they have a monopoly and they lock people into new 18 month contracts and people are happy with these new FTTC/FTTH services, then is makes it much less likely that UPC or ESB will decide to expand into these areas and steal 50% of Eircoms customers like they have done in areas where UPC operate.

In particular it was the ESB's announcement that they were going to rollout FTTH into urban non-UPC areas over the next 3 years, that seems to have spurred Eircom into action, rolling out FTTC/H as a defensive move in these areas.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When are they going into Co Donegal for instance?

No one is, including Eircom! It just isn't economic for any commercial company, including Eircom to rollout new services in very low density areas.

It will take government subsidies as part of the National Broadband Plan to get such places done.

PixelTrawler wrote: »

Bad idea for UPC to sit still though.

When you look at the maps here and the plans of ESB/Vodafone, it would appear so - I presume we'll be looking to UPC to turn up the dial

Yup, UPC already have, offering 240Mb/s for very competitive prices. And I fully expect them to go even higher with DOCSIS 3.1.

In fact, as exciting as all this FTTH talk is, I expect UPC will deliver >500Mb/s much quicker and two more people in Ireland quicker then either ESB or Eircom will do with their FTTH rollouts.

That isn't to criticise Eircom/ESB, their FTTH rollouts are very important, as it will bring 1Gb/s speeds to the rest of Ireland who can't get UPC. But don't underestimate UPC's abilities. They are the ones who have been pushing broadband speeds up in Ireland over the last 10 years and I don't expect that to stop or change.

eNet brining Fiber (FTT Premises) to businesses in Kilkenny:

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/40933-kilkenny-to-become-ireland/

It is moves like this by eNet and ESB that are spurring Eircom into doing FTTH too.

rob808 wrote: »

This seems pointless Kilkenny already on Eircom list guess eNet save Eircom some money:).I also notice a lot of towns Eircom doing so is ESB and vodafone example navan question is why are they building two networks in one location.

Competition.

In this example, eNet is costing Eircom valuable business.

Business in relatively high density towns where Eircom has a monopoly is currently Eircoms bread and butter. If eNet or ESB move into these areas, then that is lost business and therefore revenue and profits for Eircom.

The real money is in owning the network. If you are just a reseller, then profit margins are very thin, not a very good business strategy.

Hackery wrote: »

Eircom Wholesale will not be charging per metre it'll be a flat rate €150 To get FTTH installed. Customers on long lines from cabinets may get FTTH as the technology is not distance dependent.

But is that confirmed?

The Eircom wholesale docs do mention that the ONT install is €150, but it doesn't say anything about laying the cable. Are you assuming the €150 charge includes the laying of the cable or do you know it for fact?

Also I would assume there will be some limit on how far Eircom will lay cable?

ED E wrote: »

How does 150 compare to the current in home works being performed by KNN and paid for by the operators? Have come across the fee for that.

From the Eircom wholesale docs:

NTU Installed by eircom (6): 27.50

Also from the same doc I'm guessing the following charge may apply to install FTTH:

Standalone NGA Non-Insitu Access connection (5): 92.39*

(5) Standalone Non-Insitu Access connection - Where all line work is not in place and there has been no previous service at the address.

(6) This charge applies when the NTU/ONT is installed by eircom for both POTS Based NGA services and Standalone NGA services. This charge is in addition to the charges above. The NTU/ONT charge will not apply when a Non insitu SB-WLR line is installed as part of the same order. The NTU/ONT charge will also not be applied where a Standalone NGA Non-Insitu Access connection charge occurs as part of the same order.

All of this isn't quiet clear and in fact I think there are some mistakes in these points.