NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

KOR101 · 15-07-2015 6:59pm

It's clear now that the government has fibre in mind, and nothing else. Alex White has said they are looking for a once and for all solution. There is also this from the RTE report.........

Measures will also be put in place, the plan proposes, to ensure smaller local fixed wireless operators are able to compete with larger national or regional operators and incumbents when it comes to offering retail services.

........so, that's how they intend to deal with the existing wireless providers. They will be given certain advantages as fibre resellers.

dbit · 15-07-2015 7:43pm

KOR101 wrote: »

It's clear now that the government has fibre in mind, and nothing else. Alex White has said they are looking for a once and for all solution. There is also this from the RTE report.........

Measures will also be put in place, the plan proposes, to ensure smaller local fixed wireless operators are able to compete with larger national or regional operators and incumbents when it comes to offering retail services.

........so, that's how they intend to deal with the existing wireless providers. They will be given certain advantages as fibre resellers.

Shure how else will paddy the plasterer, sean the sheep and peppa pig get theyre dirty greedy hands into the profits.

Johnboy1951 · 15-07-2015 8:59pm

Minimum upload speed

6Mbit/s or twice the maximum upload speed of any existing broadband services available in the Intervention Areas, whichever is greater

I think the implication of this is easy to miss.

I am in an intervention area.
Some people, depending on their location, can avail of fixed wireless BB.

Reading the quote above, everybody in the intervention area will have to get a minimum of twice what anybody can get ....... we know how a lot of the advertised figures are exaggerated but it seems this might bite back now.

6Mb/s or 2 x the Max upload speed of ANY existing service in the area.

It looks like they are pushing the upload speed to the point where fixed wireless will be excluded except in very exceptional circumstances.

rob808 · 15-07-2015 10:25pm

it going to be 50/50 network the goverment owning half and the winning bidder or bidders owning the other half.it should be interesting

.This what siro said http://siro.ie/national-broadband-plan/?utm_source=nbp&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=nbp

Nollog · 15-07-2015 10:57pm

“the Government’s ambitious National Broadband Plan’s ambitions."

Sounds like a perfect match to me.

bk · 16-07-2015 10:12am

I'm delighted with the news that is being reported here.

It is clear that 4G LTE is out of the question and it also looks like the WISPs will be largely knocked out.

It looks like it will mainly be FTTH, with maybe a little VDSL and perhaps in super extreme cases FWA to reach a lonely house on top of a mountain.

Even where FWA is used, I don't expect it will be a WISP, instead Eircom or SIRO using FWA in extraordinary cases.

So far it all sounds very good. We just need to make sure it actually gets done now.

rob808 · 16-07-2015 10:18am

bk wrote: »

I'm delighted with the news that is being reported here.

It is clear that 4G LTE is out of the question and it also looks like the WISPs will be largely knocked out.

It looks like it will mainly be FTTH, with maybe a little VDSL and perhaps in super extreme cases FWA to reach a lonely house on top of a mountain.

Even where FWA is used, I don't expect it will be a WISP, instead Eircom or SIRO using FWA in extraordinary cases.

So far it all sounds very good. We just need to make sure it actually gets done now.

yea sound good and it nice what siro said with making a open FTTH network even in extreme rural areas and retiring the old copper network.

Stinicker · 17-07-2015 12:14am

What are the chances of Fianna Fail getting back into Government next year and a few brown envelopes exchanging hands and hey presto 4G as the NBP? Or worse that WISP's get the money instead? We have seen a similar thing happen before in Australia with their ambitious network which was scuppered after a change of Government there.

rob808 · 17-07-2015 12:42am

Stinicker wrote: »

What are the chances of Fianna Fail getting back into Government next year and a few brown envelopes exchanging hands and hey presto 4G as the NBP? Or worse that WISP's get the money instead? We have seen a similar thing happen before in Australia with their ambitious network which was scuppered after a change of Government there.

I don't think that can happen because it a contract and don't think Fianna Fáil would do that.There is a chance wisp could win NBP I hope they don't I would rather a open FTTH network with wisp being able to sell there products over because that would last way over 20 years.

funnyname · 17-07-2015 8:55am

Wasn't the cost in Australia multiples of billions whereas here it'll be way less, well hopefully.

rob808 wrote: »

I don't think that can happen because it a contract and don't think Fianna Fáil would do that.There is a chance wisp could win NBP I hope they don't I would rather a open FTTH network with wisp being able to sell there products over because that would last way over 20 years.

MajesticDonkey · 17-07-2015 8:57am

Stinicker wrote: »

What are the chances of Fianna Fail getting back into Government next year and a few brown envelopes exchanging hands and hey presto 4G as the NBP? Or worse that WISP's get the money instead? We have seen a similar thing happen before in Australia with their ambitious network which was scuppered after a change of Government there.

Won't happen because it's extremely unlikely that Fianna Fail will get into government again in the next 20 years

murphaph · 17-07-2015 9:43am

People have short memories unfortunately.

rob808 · 17-07-2015 10:48am

funnyname wrote: »

Wasn't the cost in Australia multiples of billions whereas here it'll be way less, well hopefully.

Australia way way bigger than Ireland so it would cost billions for them our wont cost a billion but probably be close to it.

Nollog · 17-07-2015 1:48pm

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Won't happen because it's extremely unlikely that Fianna Fail will get into government again in the next 20 years

So optimistic.

Avada · 17-07-2015 1:52pm

Stinicker wrote: »

What are the chances of Fianna Fail getting back into Government next year and a few brown envelopes exchanging hands and hey presto 4G as the NBP? Or worse that WISP's get the money instead? We have seen a similar thing happen before in Australia with their ambitious network which was scuppered after a change of Government there.

Yes, because fine gael's previous telecoms experience has all been above board

ItHurtsWhenIP · 19-07-2015 9:05pm

KOR101 wrote: »

...
Measures will also be put in place, the plan proposes, to ensure smaller local fixed wireless operators are able to compete with larger national or regional operators and incumbents when it comes to offering retail services.

........so, that's how they intend to deal with the existing wireless providers. They will be given certain advantages as fibre resellers.

I had been talking to the founder of my WISP a couple of months back, and he had been saying that if the NBP provides FTTH by an Eircom or Siro, then as long as it was open to all ISPs to provide a service on it, that he would be delighted to have a killer offering.

But this got me wondering about the smaller WISPs and their backhaul. For example - if one of these companies have say a 1Gbps connection into INEX and it's shared across 1,000 customers - what happens when each of those 1,000 customers get pipes capable of consuming all of the WISPs backhaul. :eek:

The WISPs are going to have to seriously upgrade their backhaul or I would think their offering is going to be killed. :rolleyes:

Tommy Lagahan · 19-07-2015 10:28pm

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

But this got me wondering about the smaller WISPs and their backhaul. For example - if one of these companies have say a 1Gbps connection into INEX and it's shared across 1,000 customers - what happens when each of those 1,000 customers get pipes capable of consuming all of the WISPs backhaul. :eek:

The WISPs are going to have to seriously upgrade their backhaul or I would think their offering is going to be killed. :rolleyes:

Spot on, one of the local WISPs up here in the NW was very consistent on 3mbit for years til they started offering 10 and 50mbit packages on some new 5GHz equipment. It was great for all of a month before everyone else upgraded (I was one of the 1st). Now their packet loss is through the roof, speeds absolutely plummet at peak times (<1Mbit) and there's no sign of an improvement anytime soon. Packet loss happens inside their network when doing traceRTs to google so its their equipment to blame for sure.

rob808 · 19-07-2015 10:34pm

Tommy Lagahan wrote: »

Spot on, one of the local WISPs up here in the NW was very consistent on 3mbit for years til they started offering 10 and 50mbit packages on some new 5GHz equipment. It was great for all of a month before everyone else upgraded (I was one of the 1st). Now their packet loss is through the roof, speeds absolutely plummet at peak times (<1Mbit) and there's no sign of an improvement anytime soon. Packet loss happens inside their network when doing traceRTs to google so its their equipment to blame for sure.

wow that sucks well let hope Eircom or siro win all lots in NBP.

dbit · 28-07-2015 10:55am

Was this something alot of us feared ?
http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/comreg-eyes-30m-broadband-spectrum-windfall-31407768.html?utm_content=buffer8d60e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

rob808 · 28-07-2015 11:04am

dbit wrote: »

Was this something alot of us feared ?
http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/comreg-eyes-30m-broadband-spectrum-windfall-31407768.html?utm_content=buffer8d60e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Why is it something to fear there given it to mobile network the 3.6ghz so it gona be hard for FWP to give 30mb down and 6mb up so that good for siro and Eircom taking most of the NBP.:)

KOR101 · 28-07-2015 11:14am

dbit wrote: »

Was this something alot of us feared ?
http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/comreg-eyes-30m-broadband-spectrum-windfall-31407768.html?utm_content=buffer8d60e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

No, quite the opposite. Authorities are showing no faith in fixed wireless as a solution for the future.

A spokesman for a newly- formed association of fixed wireless operators said that the State, through the telecoms regulator, is denying them "a fair shot" at competing for state-subsidised National Broadband Plan (NBP) contracts.

If they were thought of as part of the future, they would be given extra spectrum, not less.

MajesticDonkey · 28-07-2015 11:52am

rob808 wrote: »

Why is it something to fear there given it to mobile network the 3.6ghz so it gona be hard for FWP to give 30mb down and 6mb up so that good for siro and Eircom taking most of the NBP.:)

I'm not sure why you're so sure that fibre is going to be the choice for the NBP. Yes, it would be amazing if it was, but I think you're being far far too hopeful at this point, and it may come as a big let down if the decision is to only use fibre for medium-large towns and villages and FWA for everyone else.

rob808 · 28-07-2015 1:58pm

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

I'm not sure why you're so sure that fibre is going to be the choice for the NBP. Yes, it would be amazing if it was, but I think you're being far far too hopeful at this point, and it may come as a big let down if the decision is to only use fibre for medium-large towns and villages and FWA for everyone else.

Medium -large towns think you mean small towns rural Ireland mostly red ribbon and one of houses.I think fibre will most like be Used they want a future proof network and there doing it once so if they pick FWP then we be lucky to get 30mb forget about higher speed in future.I hope your wrong but we won't know to next year.

MajesticDonkey · 28-07-2015 2:54pm

rob808 wrote: »

Medium -large towns think you mean small towns rural Ireland mostly red ribbon and one of houses.I think fibre will most like be Used they want a future proof network and there doing it once so if they pick FWP then we be lucky to get 30mb forget about higher speed in future.I hope your wrong but we won't know to next year.

I know exactly WHY fibre is the right solution, but given the government's past and the fact that it's coming up to an election, I just think it's important to keep an open mind

The Cush · 05-08-2015 9:33am

I see from an article in advanced-television.com satellite broadband is used as part of the French NBP

Eutelsat has been helped by French publicity and promotion of its National Broadband Plan which is calling for aggressive improvements to bandwidth speeds – which Ka-Sat can just about handle – of 30 Mb/s to 50 per cent of the nation’s homes by 2017, and 100 per cent of homes by 2022.

Eutelsat is already tapping into France’s Digital Divide voucher scheme to rural homes, and whereby residents can use the value of a voucher to cover the initial cost of the satellite receiving equipment and necessary connectivity, always considered to be a barrier to entry for many consumers.

http://advanced-television.com/2015/07/27/eutelsat-ka-sat-filling-up/

The same satellite, Eutelsat's KA-Sat, is also used here by 2RN as a backup to the terrestrial TV network and to infill those areas not covered by a terrestrial transmitter using the Saorsat service.

rob808 · 05-08-2015 11:03am

The Cush wrote: »

I see from an article in advanced-television.com satellite broadband is used as part of the French NBP

The same satellite, Eutelsat's KA-Sat, is also used here by 2RN as a backup to the terrestrial TV network and to infill those areas not covered by a terrestrial transmitter using the Saorsat service.

The pack loss be high and pings be high it would be not good for our NBP.i think that satelite should only be use for extreme cases.

dbit · 05-08-2015 11:22am

Anyone think this could be a step towards future plans and NBP , they are looking at three ( 4g is not good with them for rural just yet ??
https://www.siliconrepublic.com/companies/2015/08/05/upc-gets-ready-to-storm-mobile-market-hits-367-3k-broadband-subscribers?utm_content=buffer26173&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

guil · 05-08-2015 12:11pm

dbit wrote: »

Anyone think this could be a step towards future plans and NBP , they are looking at three ( 4g is not good with them for rural just yet ??
https://www.siliconrepublic.com/companies/2015/08/05/upc-gets-ready-to-storm-mobile-market-hits-367-3k-broadband-subscribers?utm_content=buffer26173&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Three are an absolute disaster. I was with them for the mobile and even in places with 3-4 bars of 3G and 4G I still couldn't use the Internet.

dbit · 05-08-2015 12:16pm

What about zuckerbergs flying ISP platform can stay up for 3 months and fly around coverage area , touted to be super fast as it acts as high speed relay between satelite and ground stations ( Uses lazers as medium). YEs i know its not a realistic solution but its really friggin cool.

ED E · 05-08-2015 12:17pm

Three have taken two subscriber bases and moved them onto one set of masts, this has totally overloaded the cells. Until they sort out their infrastructure they'll have issues, but it wasnt always like this and I'm confident they'll sort it. I've tested at over 50Mb on 3 LTE. Hutchison Whompaa wont let their money go to waste.

guil · 05-08-2015 12:21pm

ED E wrote: »

Three have taken two subscriber bases and moved them onto one set of masts, this has totally overloaded the cells. Until they sort out their infrastructure they'll have issues, but it wasnt always like this and I'm confident they'll sort it. I've tested at over 50Mb on 3 LTE. Hutchison Whompaa wont let their money go to waste.

They seem to have decommissioned some o2 masts as well. My sister in law and mother are on o2 numbers and always had perfect signal in the area. Since the merge it has gone to dirt.

In the few weeks I was with them I dunno how many calls I missed, it would ring on the callers end but it was pot luck if my phone rang.

dbit · 05-08-2015 12:31pm

All you can eat data , that is if you are able to eat .

ED E · 05-08-2015 12:33pm

guil wrote: »

They seem to have decommissioned some o2 masts as well. My sister in law and mother are on o2 numbers and always had perfect signal in the area. Since the merge it has gone to dirt.

In the few weeks I was with them I dunno how many calls I missed, it would ring on the callers end but it was pot luck if my phone rang.

Thats exactly it, all the o2 masts are going offline and those customers are doubling up on 3 masts.

I suspect this is regulatory, one provider isnt normally allowed to have double bands. But we're way OT, this is more for midband/mobiles.

ACLFC7 · 06-08-2015 4:02pm

The new August Report is out http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/communications/SiteCollectionDocuments/Broadband/FINAL%20August%20REPORT.pdf
It shows they're considering a Fixed Wireless Access Network

Cuddlesworth · 06-08-2015 4:16pm

ACLFC7 wrote: »

The new August Report is out http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/communications/SiteCollectionDocuments/Broadband/FINAL%20August%20REPORT.pdf
It shows they're considering a Fixed Wireless Access Network

That annoys me. Fixed wireless is not for densely populated areas, hundreds of devices in a isolated area cause huge amounts of interference regardless of the platform.

rob808 · 06-08-2015 4:36pm

ACLFC7 wrote: »

The new August Report is out http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/communications/SiteCollectionDocuments/Broadband/FINAL%20August%20REPORT.pdf
It shows they're considering a Fixed Wireless Access Network

Fixed wireless not future proof that the problem sure they probably be able to do 30mb but couldn't see them doing any higher and then it probably degrade after few years.

skydish79 · 06-08-2015 5:05pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

That annoys me. Fixed wireless is not for densely populated areas, hundreds of devices in a isolated area cause huge amounts of interference regardless of the platform.

Time for those who know what they are talking about on here to submit their views and concerns

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/communications/en-ie/Pages/Consultation/NBP-Strategy-Intervention-Public-Consultation.aspx

bk · 06-08-2015 5:28pm

ACLFC7 wrote: »

The new August Report is out http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/communications/SiteCollectionDocuments/Broadband/FINAL%20August%20REPORT.pdf
It shows they're considering a Fixed Wireless Access Network

Wow the trial involved 7 whole users! :rolleyes:

Johnboy1951 · 06-08-2015 7:13pm

ACLFC7 wrote: »

The new August Report is out http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/communications/SiteCollectionDocuments/Broadband/FINAL%20August%20REPORT.pdf
It shows they're considering a Fixed Wireless Access Network

I don't read that into it.

It shows to me that whatever they decide they cannot be accused of not considering Fixed Wireless and taking the time to attend a demonstration.

It could just as easily be read as CYA

Having said that I continue to believe there will be some fixed wireless points in the roll out, with the majority being served by FTTH.

Johnboy1951 · 06-08-2015 7:44pm

I think some of the emphases in this document is also rather pointing to the majority getting FTTH and some fixed wireless to fill in extremely remote areas.

www.dcenr.gov.ie/communications/SiteCollectionDocuments/Broadband/Strategy%20Documents/Intervention%20Strategy%20Presentation%2015%20July%202015.pdf

I am left wondering what they might set as 'future proofing' in regard to speed of service.

EDIT
I had failed to find this one when I looked the other day .....

www.dcenr.gov.ie/communications/Lists/Consultations%20Documents/NBP%20Intervention%20Strategy%20consultation%20reports/NBP%20Intervention%20Strategy%20Report.pdf

bk · 06-08-2015 9:31pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Having said that I continue to believe there will be some fixed wireless points in the roll out, with the majority being served by FTTH.

I expect FTTH to be used for most premises, with LTE from Eircom and Vodafone masts to be used for a very small number of homes.

I don't expect to see any of the FWA companies win any of the contracts. They simply don't have the scale and presence for it.

ItHurtsWhenIP · 07-08-2015 8:47am

ACLFC7 wrote: »

The new August Report is out http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/communications/SiteCollectionDocuments/Broadband/FINAL%20August%20REPORT.pdf
It shows they're considering a Fixed Wireless Access Network

Ripplecom, being the biggest FWA provider in the country, is definitely worried about their future. This trial was a joke (as others have said, and I did over on the IoffL forum) with 7 customers, of course it'll be great speeds. But how many "potential" NBP customers are in that red triangle? Hundreds? Thousands? What kind of sh1t speed would they get from that mast if they were all connected to it? :eek:

This is the DCENR at least being seen to be doing the proper thing and looking at all of the options and then ignoring them when Eircom or Siro promise a true future proofed plan that meets the financial targets.

My little Broadband Group will definitely be making a submission on the public consultation to the NBP and we will definitely be calling for FTTH.

KOR101 · 07-08-2015 2:51pm

bk wrote: »

I don't expect to see any of the FWA companies win any of the contracts. They simply don't have the scale and presence for it.

The fact that the government plans to split the country into only 2 or 3 areas means they have no intention of giving the wireless companies a contract. It's one for Eircom, one for SIRO, and possibly one for another major player.

bk · 07-08-2015 3:50pm

KOR101 wrote: »

The fact that the government plans to split the country into only 2 or 3 areas means they have no intention of giving the wireless companies a contract. It's one for Eircom, one for SIRO, and possibly one for another major player.

Yes, if that ends up being the plan, then the wireless operators won't get a look in. They would only stand a chance of getting it if the contracts were broken down to per village size or something similar.

But if it is just 1 to 3 big contracts, then likely only Eircom and Siro would be big enough to win it.

Now as part of their contract Eircom/SIRO might use their own LTE and FWA to reach the most rural locations. But I'd expect they would use FTTH in most cases.

My only fear would be that imagine might win one of those contracts. I'd hate to be stuck in an area getting serviced by crappy Imagine service while the rest of the country gets hooked up to FTTH!

dbit · 07-08-2015 5:01pm

bk wrote: »

Yes, if that ends up being the plan, then the wireless operators won't get a look in. They would only stand a chance of getting it if the contracts were broken down to per village size or something similar.

But if it is just 1 to 3 big contracts, then likely only Eircom and Siro would be big enough to win it.

Now as part of their contract Eircom/SIRO might use their own LTE and FWA to reach the most rural locations. But I'd expect they would use FTTH in most cases.

My only fear would be that imagine might win one of those contracts. I'd hate to be stuck in an area getting serviced by crappy Imagine service while the rest of the country gets hooked up to FTTH!

I thought imagine in Dublin anyway had done some FTTH already - I'm not a Dub so could be wrong ?. Plus there is the whoaful traffic shaping being done on imagines lines - its pretty bad 24/7

bk · 07-08-2015 5:46pm

dbit wrote: »

I thought imagine in Dublin anyway had done some FTTH already - I'm not a Dub so could be wrong ?. Plus there is the whoaful traffic shaping being done on imagines lines - its pretty bad 24/7

Not that I'm aware of and certainly nothing about it on their site.

Maybe they have fiber to one or two new build buildings somewhere. Or perhaps you are mixing them up with Digiweb/Smart who do have a fiber network and also wireless?

ED E · 07-08-2015 9:34pm

That's magnet FTTBasement I suspect you're thinking of.

rob808 · 07-08-2015 10:36pm

bk wrote: »

Yes, if that ends up being the plan, then the wireless operators won't get a look in. They would only stand a chance of getting it if the contracts were broken down to per village size or something similar.

But if it is just 1 to 3 big contracts, then likely only Eircom and Siro would be big enough to win it.

Now as part of their contract Eircom/SIRO might use their own LTE and FWA to reach the most rural locations. But I'd expect they would use FTTH in most cases.

My only fear would be that imagine might win one of those contracts. I'd hate to be stuck in an area getting serviced by crappy Imagine service while the rest of the country gets hooked up to FTTH!

Yea that be terrible I suspect imagine and ripplecom will team up and try win some of NBP the problem with LTE is some areas it won't work like we're I live I can't get a good mobile reception so I wouldnt say fixed wireless would be great for me either.Im on DSL so I would hope since I'm on that I would get FTTH if I'm on Eircom side finger cross they win or siro.

ItHurtsWhenIP · 02-09-2015 11:05pm

I know it's only 10 days, but that might only be the beginning.

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/news-and-media/en-ie/Pages/PressRelease/Minister-White-extends-public-consultation-on-broadband-intervention.aspx

I wonder which stakeholders have been knocking on Alex White's door.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 13-09-2015 3:08am

The September Report has been published on the DCENR site. Interestingly it mentions a meeting the NBP team had with a new company, Gigabit Fibre Limited, which to quote the department "has been set up for the sole purpose of tendering for the NBP contract or contracts"

Doing a bit of searching I see it has been co-founded by ex-Eircom Business managing director Ronan Kneafsey.

Listed on Solocheck as directors (two of five) are:
Alan Harper
Andrew Sangster

Does anyone have any more information on this new entrant to the race?

NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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