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Feedback Thread **READ POST #1 IN FULL**

  • 16-04-2012 3:58am
    #1
    Frisbee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,569 ✭✭✭✭


    Ok Sorry about the delay on this, work has been slightly mental this morning. Leading on from the Soccer Forum Status Thread that was started yesterday I figured there was no real point holding off until June like we usually do for the Feedback thread.

    As with the usual Feedback Threads there will be a ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY on any trolling, abuse or breaches of the charter in this thread. Instead of the usual infraction/warning it will be an immediate one month ban for anyone who breaks the rules. If you want to post in this thread you are agreeing to accept this rule, so I don't want anyone coming to us b1tching and moaning because they think their ban is harsh if they break the rules on this thread.

    Couple of basic ground rules before we get going:

    (1) No constant scapegoating of individual posters. This isn't to turn into a witch hunt against posters you don't like. If you need to make a specific example to back up a more general point that's fine, but constantly singling out individual users as your sole point isn't on.


    (2) If someone makes a point that you don't agree with then either respond in a constructive manner with a decent counter-point or don't respond at all. Attempted witty one liners to undermine an argument are pointless and will turn the thread into a clusterf*ck. Plus 99% of the time you think you're being funny, you're not. Same goes for pointless replies like: 'That's a stupid idea'. If you think it's not a good idea outline reasons why you think it's not going to work.


    (3) Please, when you're making a point take a second to THINK about it and make sure it's what you actually want. As I mentioned in the other thread there was plenty of regular users a few months back who were complaining and sending the Mods PM's about us not being strict enough and applying the rules to the letter. Then I did so, 7 or 8 regulars including 2 or 3 of those complaining about us being too lenient ended up banned and their opinion changed within seconds and the Mods were too strict all of a sudden. So make sure when you're asking for something to happen that you realise it's going to effect you too, not just other users.


    (4) We're aware we're shorthanded atm and the forum is being left without Mods at bad times. We just lost one Mod and we're trying to add a few more, we're waiting to hear back from the higher ups if the names we've suggested are ok with them. Once we get the ok we'll hopefully have a few more Mods. So we don't need a 'MOAR MODS!!!' discussion spanning 3 pages, we're addressing the issue and believe me, we're as anxious as you are to get a few more hands on board.


    (5) As usual, we'll be using 'Thanks' to work out what suggestions seem the most supported, so if you agree what someone says thank their post and it gives us a better idea and makes it easier to keep track that trying to add up loads of individual posts.


    (6) If anyone uses this smiley: :rolleyes:, I swear to God I'll ban you. That's not a joke either. Let's have a grown up discussion here.

    The Moderation of the Soccer Forum is... 68 votes

    Too Strict
    0%
    Spot On
    47%
    dougalVillainKingp35Dave147GBXPaparazzoBandana boyOrando BroomMugMugsMUSEISTDeedsiesandtLeejoflyswattercivis_liberalisLizTniallo27Col200sxcantgetrightBOHtox 32 votes
    Too Lenient
    52%
    SickBoylordgoat[Deleted User]billymitchellNotoriousBenny CakeMoneymaker[Deleted User]Pawwed RigHandsome BobGavRedKingSlipperyPeoplehomer simpsongreendomareu4real?ColeTrainOwen_SOranage2Lando GriffinLucan Bohs 36 votes


«134567…27

Comments

  • #2
    Xavi6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,898 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Frisbee wrote: »
    (4) We're aware we're shorthanded atm and the forum is being left without Mods at bad times. We just lost one Mod and we're trying to add a few more, we're waiting to hear back from the higher ups if the names we've suggested are ok with them. Once we get the ok we'll hopefully have a few more Mods. So we don't need a 'MOAR MODS!!!' discussion spanning 3 pages, we're addressing the issue and believe me, we're as anxious as you are to get a few more hands on board.

    This is one of the things I have an issue with. I know from being a Soccer mod previously that this is an incredibly slow process because of the boards chain of command. Quite often, despite the Soccer mods wanting someone on their team, the admins come back and say no with a "they're not suitable" excuse meaning it's back to square one.

    If the Soccer mods want someone on their team they should be trusted enough by the higher ups to have made the best decision for the good of the Soccer forum. That isn't currently the case meaning we have a back and forth process of name proposals and rejection. It shouldn't be that way if it's to the detriment of the forum, and it currently is.

    The current mod team have been here long enough to know who is who and who would make a good addition to the group, they shouldn't be told no by anybody.

    Also, ruling out people as a mod solely based on prior indescretions is not the right way to go about it imo.


  • #3
    KittyeeTrix
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,239 ✭✭✭KittyeeTrix


    From my own point of view I'm concerned that some reported posts are not acted upon and I'm basically wondering why??

    I'm on my phone now but will recheck to see if the particular one I'm referring to was acted upon. If it hasn't is it okay to expand on it here or should it be done via PM??

    I'm only asking cos it clears up for (me at least) what's considered an an actionable post and what is not...:confused:

    As for the trolls, feck them out. Boards as a whole is being ruined by a few fools who skirt and edge around the fringes of the rules and still manage to stay... :mad:
    No leniency at all IMO, Ruining the place for the vast majority!!!

    A bit of banter is okay but some here only ever post for the rise constantly


  • #4
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    Too Lenient
    KittyeeTrix wrote: »
    As for the trolls, feck them out. Boards as a whole is being ruined by a few fools who skirt and edge around the fringes of the rules and still manage to stay... :mad:
    No leniency at all IMO, Ruining the place for the vast majority!!!

    A bit of banter is okay but some here only ever post for the rise constantly

    The problem for me would be that a lot of threads end up devolving into the same tired arguments driven by agendas. Case in point (and not naming names of course), yesterday's Man U -v- Villa thread. A lot of people, from a cross section of clubs, were bemoaning the first goal. Yet one or two posters came along and randomly focused on the Liverpool supporters and referring to "all" Liverpool supporters when making their snide remarks. It's that kind of stupid **** that is ruining the forum. The second something is questioned, someone comes along and devolves the argument into the us -v- them crap.

    Another example would be the Chelsea -v- Tottenham match thread, after the game, one or two posters came along and asked Chelsea fans what would they prefer; an FA Cup win or a Top 4 spot. This was an obvious jibe at Liverpool fans who are happy with a potential domestic cup double. It is utterly pathetic that this kind of crap happens in match threads that don't even involve a) the team who you support and b) the team you are taking a shot at. This is a simple case of people going out of their way to troll, it's not even subtle. In these cases, harsh punishment should be handed out.

    As for Xavi's point, I'd back him up on that, I'd actually be surprised if a soccer mod's judgement wasn't trusted when making suggestions tbh.


  • #5
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,399 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    This is one of the things I have an issue with. I know from being a Soccer mod previously that this is an incredibly slow process because of the boards chain of command. Quite often, despite the Soccer mods wanting someone on their team, the admins come back and say no with a "they're not suitable" excuse meaning it's back to square one.

    If the Soccer mods want someone on their team they should be trusted enough by the higher ups to have made the best decision for the good of the Soccer forum. That isn't currently the case meaning we have a back and forth process of name proposals and rejection. It shouldn't be that way if it's to the detriment of the forum, and it currently is.

    The current mod team have been here long enough to know who is who and who would make a good addition to the group, they shouldn't be told no by anybody.

    Also, ruling out people as a mod solely based on prior indescretions is not the right way to go about it imo.

    You are, of course, correct but there isn't a chance in hell of individual mods ever being granted autonomy in that regard.

    Something that should happen (if it hasn't already) is a pre planning thread in the soccer mod forum dedicated to working out coverage ahead of time. Fixtures are known weeks in advance (at minimum), and there really should be a running calendar where mods offer their availabilty during big matches and for the couple of hour aftermath.

    I realise this will be an unpopular idea to some - 'but mods are volunteers!' - but it is inexcusable for big match threads to occur with zero coverage for hours. If the mod team finds that they are consistently failing to provide coverage for big match threads, then more are obviously required.

    Obviously certain announcements mean troublesome threads and they cannot be anticipated ahead of time (Managerial sackings / player transfers / etc), but events that require coverage and are signposted well in advance really should have a mod on sight.


  • #6
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    More decisive action from the mods would be welcome, also the mods should have the power, individually, to decide for themselves what is worthy of a ban/infraction and what it is not. It has got to be ok for it to be subjective.

    If a mod sees a post that has or has not been reported, and finds it is breaching rules they have got to be able to take action themselves.

    The forum is probably one of the toughest on boards to moderate and it feels a lot looser these days for whatever reason, I personally feel there are not enough mods, or at least not enough active mods on the forum especially at busy times.

    More mods would obviously help, but from what I have heard about the selection process of becoming a mod sometimes people who may actually make suitable mods would be ruled out altogether because of some indescretions in the past, this doesnt seem right to me as it rules out all capacity of a poster to mature or change his/her attitude over time. The fact that the soccer mods need to send a list of names to higher ups in the first place isnt great either imo, they should be trusted to know who would and would not make a good addition to the team.

    The soccer forum can be a great place to come and discuss football, have some banter and keep up to date with the latest gossip in the football world, but the enjoyment level for many posters has gone down dramatically due to the influx of posters who are here purely to cause hassle. It is easy to tell people to keep ignoring them, put them on ignore etc, but the problem is really that these people literally contribute nothing positive and should not be here in the first place!

    The soccer forum has a special access required feature for a reason, it attracts certain personality types and this feature is supposed to help contain them, if it is failing, which it clearly is, new measures should be tried. A probation period would be something I would like to see, and it becomes quite clear after a few posts whether someone is here because they have an interest in the forum or not.

    The current system of infractions allows too much freedom to trolls who know they have x amount of times they can get infracted with this account, then they can just re reg under a new account and return. There doesnt seem to be a high enough level of policing on that.

    There are those who say the SF has always been the same, but I have been here a long time now and from my point of view it has certainly declined, a lot of good posters have left, and I know for a fact that it is not all down to them simply moving on with their real lives etc.

    Firmer measures will take a bit of getting used to maybe, but in the long run they would be for the benefit of the forum. Swift and decisive action, with the mods being given the power and the trust to make their own decisions.


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  • #7
    invinciblePRSTV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    Spot On
    NO to stricter moderation. This is the easy solution offered in everyone of these threads in years gone by.

    As the history of the SF shows, any formal increase in moderators being allowed to flex their boards power leads to highly contentious infractions, car crash feedback threads, and a highly antagonistic 'us v them' atmosphere in the forum.

    LL's proposal above is a good 'un, I've noted myself that clicking into match threads in the hours after the FT whistle is where the muppetry tends to be most obvious. A formal timetable is a good idea.

    Let's not return to the bad ol' days of STUPID moderating decisions ruining the forum by giving carte blanche to the mods to ban with impunity and having the rigid and inflexible boards hierarchy standing behind them as they do so.

    It'll only end in tears. Again.


  • #8
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,734 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    How to completely ignore posters should be stickied, somewhere. You know the v bulliten add-on, makes a big difference.

    If posters are getting on your nerves this thing will make them disappear.....fully. A lot of people maybe aren't aware of it and the boards ignore feature is a pain as you still see the poster quoted.


  • #9
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    How to completely ignore posters should be stickied, somewhere. You know the v bulliten add-on, makes a big difference.

    If posters are getting on your nerves this thing will make them disappear.....fully. A lot of people maybe aren't aware of it and the boards ignore feature is a pain as you still see the poster quoted.

    What is this beautiful sounding feature you speak of?

    All I know how to do is block the posts and then I still see them when others quote!


  • #10
    DM_7
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭DM_7


    I would suggest enforcing the rules of this thread in the other threads. Rules 2,3 and 6 in the op would remove a lot of the annoying things in the forum. So I would say stricter moderation. I do understand that would be a big ask.

    some topics obviously will be light hearted and won't need to follow such strict rules but in general a commitment to smart posting would be a big help.

    Most posters are very good and would do this anyway.

    Perhaps posters could help by ignoring obvious trolls, so many people will call out the troll if fills up threads with nonsense. If one person reply's and you agree just thank them instead of adding your own reply.

    Thanks for reading!


  • #11
    SantryRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,224 ✭✭✭✭SantryRed


    I really, really think there should be an outright ban for talking about United in Liverpool threads and vice versa. Anything of the sort should be an instant 1 week ban. Obviously if mods become stricter, there will be moans about it, but people will have to just deal with it. Rules are in place for a reason, do not break them or face the consequences.


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  • #12
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,734 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    kryogen wrote: »
    What is this beautiful sounding feature you speak of?

    All I know how to do is block the posts and then I still see them when others quote!

    Here ya go !

    This is for Firefox users, someone else might know something similar for Chrome etc.

    Link http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/26567

    You need to install this prior to installing the above, if you haven't got it already.
    link https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir.../greasemonkey/


  • #13
    Morricone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Morricone


    Permaban for anyone who uses Hillsborough or any other tragedy as a stick to beat opposition fans with.

    Posts like this are absolute scum of the earth as was the likes of darokane's behaviour in the Controversial opinions thread. Also the 96 was not enough. Like that should be a permaban right there.

    Its fúcking ridiculous.


  • #14
    jordainius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭jordainius


    Can sub-forums be introduced? There are a handful of clubs with a large enough support base on here to justify having their own forums. United and Liverpool for certain, I wouldn't mind seeing one for Arsenal myself (though I am being biased there).


  • #15
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    I really dont like the idea of sub forums for the bigger clubs, I like that opposition fans come and give their opinions on my team. Its healthy to have an outsiders input now and then too and the sub forums would be far less interesting imo.


  • #16
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    Too Lenient
    I said it yesterday but may as well put it here. The people who go around biting on every single thing and calling people trolls should be treated as harshly as the trolls themselves. This is how threads get derailed. One inflammatory post and then 30 posts of "You are obsessed", "You are trolling", "Typical post from someone who hates *insert football team here*". Either argue against the point and disprove it, report it or ignore it. It's easy to ignore one trolling post but when there is pages of people contributing nothing more than calling somebody out as a troll or bitter the thread becomes impossible to navigate.

    Basically, if the mods are going to crack down on trolling, then they should also crack down on those who can't help but bite. Most of the members can restrain themselves but it's always the same names giving the WUMs ammunition. There will always be people looking for a reaction on a forum like this but the people who react are not helping the mods at all to do their job.

    Anyway, I haven't been here long but I thought I may as well give my tuppence worth.


  • #17
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    Too Lenient
    I would also like to point out that football is an emotive topic and can cause otherwise good posters to fly off the handle after a particularly bad day. If everybody calls for a stricter policy, some of these good posters could find themselves on the ****ty end of this stricter policy that everyone seems to want and the forum will be worse for it.


  • #18
    jordainius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭jordainius


    kryogen wrote: »
    I really dont like the idea of sub forums for the bigger clubs, I like that opposition fans come and give their opinions on my team. Its healthy to have an outsiders input now and then too and the sub forums would be far less interesting imo.
    The intention isn't to weed out the type of fan you speak of above, and I'm not talking about restricting the subforums so only fans of that club would be allowed post.

    I'm thinking more of a "All welcome to post here, but you're on our patch so be respectful. Zero tolerance on trolls/wums." The regular soccer forums would still exist, but Liverpool/United/Arsenal/etc. would have a place to go where they know they won't have to put up with bullsh1t!

    I usually only ever read and post in the Arsenal superthread because the nonsense in other threads makes me lose faith in humanity (if you'll excuse my exaggeration!). And judging from comments by a handful of posters I know I'm not alone in that. Also, a handful of decent posters who regularly posted in that thread no longer post in soccer full stop because they're sick of the carry on.

    I'll finish by saying you do have a very valid point all the same.


  • #19
    Panthro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,824 ✭✭✭✭Panthro


    Quick answer, I think the forum is too lenient.
    I put forward the notion of pre-moderation of new threads starting up, ie-no new thread can be started without a moderator approving it. Crazy idea some might say, but think about it, threads that are ill timely started (such as those pesky "are manager and such a team done?" threads, yesterday's woefully ill timed "Chelsea fans" thread, and the countless "how do ye think the soccer forum is fixed" threads) would simply not get put into the public domain if they were premoderated. IMO they are nothing short of a breeding ground for the very trolls that are making bits of an otherwise pretty good forum. If ye want to limit the trolls, cut them at the source-shiite threads cropping up all over the forum.


  • #20
    Adolf Hipster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Adolf Hipster


    LOI forum seperately.


  • #21
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,734 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Good suggestion from Panthro there.

    Would certainly help, today's thread being a good example.


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  • #22
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    Excellent suggestion by LL about match threads but they should also have a limited life span.

    During the game they get spiky but its so fast moving people move on . The problems occur well after the game is over , and some match threads go so off topic that they are hardly recognisable .

    If match threads got closed down say 2hrs after the the final whistle then it would force posters to take heated arguments or hot topics into a dedicated thread which would be much easier to moderate rather than trying to police a heated debate amongst all the crap .


  • #23
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,488 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Maybe an over-18s section?


  • #24
    G.K.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭G.K.


    an over-18's section? Are you trying to keep me out? :pac:


  • #25
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    Too Lenient
    G.K. wrote: »
    an over-18's section? Are you trying to keep me out? :pac:

    They'll make you mod of the under-18's section to sweeten the deal. ;)


  • #26
    Xavi6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,898 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Maybe an over-18s section?

    You are of course assuming that a forum full of trolls and wind up merchants would be honest enough to not lie about their age when they registered for the website...


  • #27
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,488 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    You are of course assuming that a forum full of trolls and wind up merchants would be honest enough to not lie about their age when they registered for the website...

    We could put a popup window with 'click here if you're over 18'.


  • #28
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    pickarooney wrote: »
    We could put a popup window with 'click here if you're over 18'.

    Yea like the one on porn sites that are so effective :p


  • #29
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    Too Lenient
    Xavi6 wrote: »
    You are of course assuming that a forum full of trolls and wind up merchants would be honest enough to not lie about their age when they registered for the website...

    And also that it is under 18s causing the problem.


  • #30
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    Too Lenient
    I'd be willing to bet that pretty much all of the posters I have a problem with are over 18.


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  • #31
    ImpossibleDuck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭ImpossibleDuck


    Too Lenient
    jordainius wrote: »
    I usually only ever read and post in the Arsenal superthread because the nonsense in other threads makes me lose faith in humanity (if you'll excuse my exaggeration!). And judging from comments by a handful of posters I know I'm not alone in that. Also, a handful of decent posters who regularly posted in that thread no longer post in soccer full stop because they're sick of the carry on.

    I'll finish by saying you do have a very valid point all the same.
    Yeah, spend most of my time on the Arsenal superthread myself too, and as Jordainius said, we've had posters who have been on boards for years come out and say that they just can't stand the crap in the SF anymore.

    Personally, I think it's tolerable if one avoids certain threads but if we're losing valuable members of our community then perhaps it is a cause for concern.


This discussion has been closed.
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