Formula 1 2014: General Discussion Thread

wobbles · 22-11-2014 7:52pm

Just watching some of the practice sessions today where they showed some old footage and though how cool would it be to have a weekend where they showed an old race, but did introductions, commentary on qualifying and race etc as if it were real time. Im sure all the old lap/sector times are stored somewhere and they could be used to recreate the race for the commentators.

Would make a great charity thing where classic races are commentated on to modern standards. I know Id definitely watch it.

Frank Bullitt · 22-11-2014 10:25pm

Rumours as well now that Mattiacci is to leave Ferrari at the end of the season.

Looks like a serious case of rearranging deck chairs on the titanic for Ferrari.

greedygoblin · 22-11-2014 10:34pm

Gintonious wrote: »

Rumours as well now that Mattiacci is to leave Ferrari at the end of the season.

Looks like a serious case of rearranging deck chairs on the titanic for Ferrari.

I remember asking in here some time ago whether Mattiacci was appointed by Sergio Marchionne or by Luca di Montezemola. Because if it's the latter then I suppose it makes sense to have a complete break with the past as Ferrari try to get themselves sorted out for a new era of success.

I never managed to figure out the answer though.:pac:

mickdw · 22-11-2014 10:38pm

greedygoblin wrote: »

I remember asking in here some time ago whether Mattiacci was appointed by Sergio Marchionne or by Luca di Montezemola. Because if it's the latter then I suppose it makes sense to have a complete break with the past as Ferrari try to get themselves sorted out for a new era of success.

I never managed to figure out the answer though.:pac:

I think regardless of who appointed him, he was brought in short term as more of a business manager than anything else. Perhaps doing abit of a hatchet man job cutting out dead wood while they put together a technical package with Brawn for a 3 to 5 year plan.

aphex™ · 22-11-2014 11:00pm

Ferrari have tended to lag behind the rest in terms of aerodynamics. I heard it is a company policy not to start with using the front wing to influence the downforce further back in the car, or to recognise the front wing's importance as other teams do.

If this is true, and it appears to be, you need to say that they totally misunderstand what they're doing and what it takes to win in the sport.

They need Brawn back as it appears they really need someone who has a clue.

greedygoblin · 22-11-2014 11:47pm

aphex™ wrote: »

Ferrari have tended to lag behind the rest in terms of aerodynamics. I heard it is a company policy not to start with using the front wing to influence the downforce further back in the car, or to recognise the front wing's importance as other teams do.

If this is true, and it appears to be, you need to say that they totally misunderstand what they're doing and what it takes to win in the sport.

They need Brawn back as it appears they really need someone who has a clue.

Very true. They do need someone of Brawns calibre to get everyone in the team pulling in the same direction. Someone who knows exactly how to properly manage the team, who knows which positions require which people.

Internal politics has always been one of Ferraris biggest weaknesses. Now with this shakeup, maybe the team will be more focused going into the future. First though, they have to get Brawn, or someone like him.

Cookie_Monster · 23-11-2014 3:52am

Ghost Train wrote: »

lotus truck jump over f1 car
http://www.emc.com/microsites/lotus/index.htm
shorter youtube version
or theres a behind the scenes version on emc site
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVBcEg6klJI

so they're barely able to pay the bills this year or afford to develop the car in any way yet can afford to write off an entire truck and trailer unit on a pointless stunt...

Jordan 199 · 23-11-2014 4:32am

Ghost Train wrote: »

lotus truck jump over f1 car

That truck is a Renault Magnum. I prefer the MAN TGX myself...

Frank Bullitt · 23-11-2014 5:07am

greedygoblin wrote: »

Very true. They do need someone of Brawns calibre to get everyone in the team pulling in the same direction. Someone who knows exactly how to properly manage the team, who knows which positions require which people.

Internal politics has always been one of Ferraris biggest weaknesses. Now with this shakeup, maybe the team will be more focused going into the future. First though, they have to get Brawn, or someone like him.

A Brawn style of leader is exactly what they need, but it seems he isn't interested, maybe because he can see the mammoth task he would have to undertake in order to get them back to an even remotely competitive structure.

Its all well and good axing staff that don't work, but its worse to just not replace them with someone of a higher calibre, and this is the worrying part for Ferrari.

Terrontress · 23-11-2014 7:28am

It would be great to see Brawn back at Ferrari. He, more than most, knows the politics and structure of the team.

I wonder how Merc are doing without him. While Lauda and Wolff are the ones being interviewed, this year's programme was developed under his watch.

23-11-2014 10:12am

Jeez, looking at the results of the year so far and Massa has only had 2 podiums. That's incredibly poor given the car he's had.

Myrddin · 23-11-2014 10:20am

Deleted User wrote: »

Jeez, looking at the results of the year so far and Massa has only had 2 podiums. That's incredibly poor given the car he's had.

Agreed. Give Massa the bullet & get Button in there for next season. Would love to see Button in that Williams

23-11-2014 10:24am

Myrddin wrote: »

Agreed. Give Massa the bullet & get Button in there for next season. Would love to see Button in that Williams

I'd rather see Button at McLaren though he would've been a good fit for Williams this year. They've had some issues in the race with tyre usage.

Going Strong · 23-11-2014 10:32am

The more I think about it, the more it looks like the BBC piece yesterday between Coulthard and Button, where they went over the latter's F1 career, was his semi-official send-off from F1. There seemed to be an air of finality about it with a "Might just be his last F1 ever, you'd never know" fig leaf to cover themselves. While Button *did* say he'd be racing next year, he didn't say where though. So, WEC with Toyota?

Myrddin · 23-11-2014 10:37am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd rather see Button at McLaren though he would've been a good fit for Williams this year. They've had some issues in the race with tyre usage.

After how he's been treated, I think I'd prefer to see him at Williams. McLaren have failed Button, not the other way around. He's a superb driver, & as stated many times, the ultimate ambassador for the sport & a total professional. He's as quick as he ever was, & fully capable of winning given the chance. McLaren have not given him that chance for too many seasons now.

23-11-2014 10:38am

Myrddin wrote: »

After how he's been treated, I think I'd prefer to see him at Williams. McLaren have failed Button, not the other way around. He's a superb driver, & as stated many times, the ultimate ambassador for the sport & a total professional. He's as quick as he ever was, & fully capable of winning given the chance. McLaren have not given him that chance for too many seasons now.

How much people seem to pine for the halcyon days of Whitmarsh eh? :P

Myrddin · 23-11-2014 10:43am

Deleted User wrote: »

How much people seem to pine for the halcyon days of Whitmarsh eh? :P

Speaking of, does anyone else have a feeling this uncertainty around Button is stemming from Boulier? He comes across as a total hard ass, & it wouldn't surprise me if it was him pushing to get rid of Button.

Brendan Flowers · 23-11-2014 11:38am

Myrddin wrote: »

Speaking of, does anyone else have a feeling this uncertainty around Button is stemming from Boulier? He comes across as a total hard ass, & it wouldn't surprise me if it was him pushing to get rid of Button.

Possibly. My hope would be that Honda are pushing hard behind the scenes for McLaren to retain Jenson

23-11-2014 11:45am

Myrddin wrote: »

Speaking of, does anyone else have a feeling this uncertainty around Button is stemming from Boulier? He comes across as a total hard ass, & it wouldn't surprise me if it was him pushing to get rid of Button.

Partly Boullier but I'd say Ron is ultimately behind it.

Adamocovic · 23-11-2014 11:48am

Buttons interview yesterday on the BBC was very depressing. Sounded like a lad who knew it was his last race with Mclaren. I really hope he gets to drive in the F1 next year. One of the cleanest drivers I have ever seen and seems like a very nice guy.

Can't wait for today now. I want Rosberg to win myself (have since the start), but I can't see him doing so unless something drastically goes wrong with Hamiltons car.

23-11-2014 11:57am

Adamocovic wrote: »

Buttons interview yesterday on the BBC was very depressing. Sounded like a lad who knew it was his last race with Mclaren. I really hope he gets to drive in the F1 next year. One of the cleanest drivers I have ever seen and seems like a very nice guy.

Can't wait for today now. I want Rosberg to win myself (have since the start), but I can't see him doing so unless something drastically goes wrong with Hamiltons car.

If Bottas gets a clean start then Hamilton will have to stay on his toes. Hamilton can't push as much as usual and he'll probably always have Bottas within a pit-stop or so behind him.

Slutmonkey57b · 23-11-2014 12:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Partly Boullier but I'd say Ron is ultimately behind it.

Ron was never a fan of Button. He had multiple opportunities to sign him and said he didn't rate him as a top rank driver. In some ways, he's right, as Button has too many weaknesses compared to someone like Alonso or Hamilton. On the other hand he's very close and can be relied upon to score.

It's clear to everyone however that in the current scenario, McLaren are the weak partner compared to Button. And less professional to boot.

Slutmonkey57b · 23-11-2014 12:59pm

Adamocovic wrote: »

Buttons interview yesterday on the BBC was very depressing. Sounded like a lad who knew it was his last race with Mclaren. I really hope he gets to drive in the F1 next year. One of the cleanest drivers I have ever seen and seems like a very nice guy.

Can't wait for today now. I want Rosberg to win myself (have since the start), but I can't see him doing so unless something drastically goes wrong with Hamiltons car.

I'd like Rosberg to win too. Hamilton has more wins but several of those have been gifted to him by Rosberg making mistakes. It's been much closer than people assumed (just like it was with Button) and if Rosberg improves his racecraft next year then it could be even closer.

Andrew76 · 23-11-2014 1:48pm

Myrddin wrote: »

Speaking of, does anyone else have a feeling this uncertainty around Button is stemming from Boulier? He comes across as a total hard ass, & it wouldn't surprise me if it was him pushing to get rid of Button.

Brundle said the same thing during yesterday's quali program, that Boullier wants to keep Magnussen as he believes he's the faster driver.

I think McLaren would score more points next year if Button was kept, but I'd prefer they give Magnussen another year and see if he can improve his racecraft.

bbability · 23-11-2014 2:03pm

Listening to Ron Denis on BBC at FP3 it's the Frenchman wanting to dump Button.

23-11-2014 2:06pm

bbability wrote: »

Listening to Ron Denis on BBC at FP3 it's the Frenchman wanting to dump Button.

Ron ain't gonna admit it unless it makes him look good. If Button was crashing every week or bad-mouthing the team he'd say it was he who wanted to get rid. With the media/public sentiment at the moment Dennis ain't gonna take responsibility.

23-11-2014 3:07pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Jeez, looking at the results of the year so far and Massa has only had 2 podiums. That's incredibly poor given the car he's had.

Felipe can thank me for this reverse jinx with $50k.

23-11-2014 3:45pm

Just want to preface this by saying it's a purely hypothetical and not an attempt to get a rise out of people but I think it's funny that if not for the presence of DRS Rosberg may well have gone into the last race with a comfortable lead. It's funny how the little thing can make such a big difference.
Also I'm not saying hit doesn't deserve it, same as how if Rosberg had won "because of double points" I still would've said he deserved it.

Adamocovic · 23-11-2014 3:47pm

I don't know why but I am looking forward more for Rosberg's interview than Hamilton's interview.
Fair play to Lewis can't say he didn't deserve it.

Slutmonkey57b · 23-11-2014 3:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just want to preface this by saying it's a purely hypothetical and not an attempt to get a rise out of people but I think it's funny that if not for the presence of DRS Rosberg may well have gone into the last race with a comfortable lead. It's funny how the little thing can make such a big difference.
Also I'm not saying hit doesn't deserve it, same as how if Rosberg had won "because of double points" I still would've said he deserved it.

There are a lot of hypotheticals all through the year, did Rosberg "gift" Lewis some wins he wouldn't have got otherwise? Do they cancel out the DNF's?

I think either of them would have been a worthy champion, and you have to say that any 2 drivers in that Mercedes would have been winners.

Ghost Train · 23-11-2014 4:04pm

Could equally have been Lewis who had the mechanical problems today and things gone the other way.

Good that it's not one driver dominating the season and there's a bit a battle even if it's just inside one team.

23-11-2014 4:32pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

There are a lot of hypotheticals all through the year, did Rosberg "gift" Lewis some wins he wouldn't have got otherwise? Do they cancel out the DNF's?

I think either of them would have been a worthy champion, and you have to say that any 2 drivers in that Mercedes would have been winners.

It is all hypothetical and obviously today's result means most of the season wouldn't have made a big difference. I just think that with Rosberg's qualifying superiority there would have been a lot less chance of Hamilton catching and passing him in the races he did without DRS. Still, everyone knew the rules before the season started.

Anyone who could've gone a season in those Mercs without winning (assuming some issue for teammates now and then) would have no business in F1.

Frankie Lee · 23-11-2014 4:51pm

Hopefully next season is more competitive, I've never been a fan of McLaren but hopefully Honda does the business for them. If Mercedes are as dominant again it will be another blow for F1.

Myrddin · 23-11-2014 7:40pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

In some ways, he's right, as Button has too many weaknesses compared to someone like Alonso or Hamilton.

And yet Button is the only person to ever beat Hamilton as a team mate...

Oblomov · 23-11-2014 8:09pm

Mercedes cant build two race cars. Simple as that.

greedygoblin · 23-11-2014 8:26pm

Interesting comment from EJ on the F1 forum earlier - Ross Brawn to head up a Volkswagen Audi entry for the 2017 season. If true, it would be great to have a brand new team, and a new constructor. They may not be successful or competitive straight away but it would be good for the sport all the same.

Mike Litoris · 23-11-2014 8:41pm

Ah well. It was a great season and only 111 DAYS, 11 HOURS, 20 MINUTES AND 47 SECONDS to the Aussie GP.

Slutmonkey57b · 23-11-2014 8:43pm

Myrddin wrote: »

And yet Button beat Hamilton in 2009, & was a great match for him on many occasions. You got some weird notions about F1 dude :P

Nope, just aware of context.

Hamilton wasn't in equal equipment in 2009, do you mean '11? Button is a great driver, one of the best on the grid, but his qualifying has been a weak point for years, and there have been too many races where he was anonymous in the first half under heavy fuel (which he's stated be doesn't like) compared to his teammate, or where he's rescued a decent 5th when his teammate was winning, or where he's had "massive front locking" or "no balance". If the car is capable of 5th, he'll get 5th but Alonso or Hamilton would get 2nd, and ultimately that's why he's at risk.

Mclaren should keep him because he'll get the points they'll need to win a championship, but they won't pin their hopes on him to win a championship *for* them. That's what an Alonso or Hamilton can do, and possibly what seb has been shown up for this year...

P_Cash · 23-11-2014 10:15pm

I loved F1.

1996 to 2001 i was glued to it.

But struggle to watch it now.

Has anyone else this problem?

My problem is that, well take today, hard to watch, the only time i kinda took good interest was massa closing in on hamil, but knowing it was visa versa, hamil minding his car.

Id love the mclaren/Ferrari fights to come back.

Id love to have the same interest.

Should i be forcing myself to watch the first few races next year

Zcott · 24-11-2014 1:37am

Why were you glued to it back then? 2001 was particularly dull with the Schumacher whitewash. Is what you're after different teams battling for the title? There was plenty of competition this year but it was within one team.

Slutmonkey57b · 24-11-2014 2:12am

I think what recent f1 loses compared to years gone by is possibilities. I had a good 10 year gap from 96 to 09 when I missed the rise of the manufacturer teams and what strikes me now is the set patterns of the season.

In the past there was actually a much bigger performance gap between the front and back of the grid, but in those days, designs were simpler and easier to improve. More things were open to changes so on a limited budget teams could design towards their strengths. Most importantly, reliability was much worse, so the middle of the pack was more variable.

The good drivers were significantly better than the bad ones, and the cars exposed those differences more.

Nowadays, big teams have staff, facilities, budgets and structures to ensure they don't have many weaknesses or gaps in their knowledge. Where one team does a better job or has a new idea, it's usually a complicated idea which works as part of a larger design, making it difficult to test, validate, or replicate.

There have been a lot of great seasons lately, where the potential winner has mathematically been up in the air, but I have the nagging feeling that it's really a foregone conclusion and we're just waiting on the dice to stop rolling. Nico gave Lewis a run for his money but Lewis realistically was favourite all season. Fernando went down to wire twice but you always felt it was going against the odds orthographic script, and something was going to stop him. Mclaren challenged but they never felt like a regular, consistent threat to red bull.

There's a feeling that the first race sets the tone, then things settle down by race 4 and after that they qualify in 2's and it's a well managed procession to the flag.

That's just me though.

Schwiiing · 24-11-2014 2:31am

Bring back refueling. Lose DRS. Bonus points for Fastest Lap and Pole Position. Maybe some sort of weight handicap system. Bring back gravel traps.

Slutmonkey57b · 24-11-2014 2:46am

Definitely bring back gravel traps, or a suitable modern equivalent. Enforce the track limits, and make sure driver mistakes are punished.

Jordan 199 · 24-11-2014 2:55am

I say it shouldn't be long before the 2015 car launch dates will start to be revealed.

flazio · 24-11-2014 9:38am

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Definitely bring back gravel traps, or a suitable modern equivalent. Enforce the track limits, and make sure driver mistakes are punished.

Police style stingers around the boundaries of the track. That'll keep them within track boundaries

And if they do run wide the tyres deflate slowing them down to a safe speed. (disclaimer, not actually serious)

Brendan Flowers · 24-11-2014 10:18am

A lot of era coming to an end yesterday...Alonso with Ferrari, Vettel with Red Bull, Button possibly leaving F1. But there seemed to be very little attention given to the end of the McLaren Mercedes partnership. If Im correct it was the longest partnership between a team and an engine supplier in the history of the sport. They enjoyed huge success together but overall I think both parties would have been disappointed to have only secured 3 drivers title and 2 constructors titles during that time.

Some great memories of McLaren Mercedes....especially that monster of an engine they had in the last 90's! Sorry to see the end of this partnership but at the same time looking forward to the McLaren Honda era!

Scotty # · 24-11-2014 11:23am

bbability wrote: »

Listening to Ron Denis on BBC at FP3 it's the Frenchman wanting to dump Button.

Take from this what you will (the last 20 seconds). Gotta love Ted Kravitz!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pbhia1jxrk

Sky showed Button and Denis sitting at a table having quite an animated discussion after the race. Button said later they always chat before and after races but this looked more serious, lots of hand movements from both. I'd like to see JB get a chance with the Honda.

All will be revealed on 1st December.

recyclebin · 24-11-2014 1:25pm

OSI wrote: »

"What was said when Lewis Hamilton quit McLaren to join Mercedes"

This makes for great reading given this years success.

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/22058/9538348/what-was-said-when-lewis-hamilton-quit-mclaren-to-join-mercedes

Alonso comments are very interesting too:

"I understand the move. Always you need some new challenges when you get tired from one situation. I think McLaren sometimes is not the easiest place to live, so I think he will be much more happy now in Mercedes than what he was in the past"

Andrew76 · 24-11-2014 1:55pm

Not sure if this has already been posted but Mattiacci has been replaced: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/30179916

Maurizio Arrivabene is his replacement, not heard of him myself.

Going Strong · 24-11-2014 2:12pm

Mattiacci was always a short term placement. He needed to see how the sporting division of Ferrari worked. After all, he spent years selling the road cars based on the brand power of the racing heritage.

Formula 1 2014: General Discussion Thread

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