Formula 1 2014: Round 19 - Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

finnharpsboy · 23-11-2014 5:13pm

1x podium, 4x 4th places, a couple of 5th places in a season where he scored points in 13 out of 19 races in an uncompetitive car, Dennis and Boulier must be off there heads if they let him go, not to mention his Japanese girlfriend possibly helping Button to sell plenty of McLaren merchandise in Japan, where McLarens 2015 engine happens to be made, surely he has to be on the grid next season

_rebelkid · 23-11-2014 5:17pm

Confirmation of Alonso going to McLaren. Source? King Juan Carlos of Spain.

frostie500 · 23-11-2014 5:30pm

Photo from perc ferme...

lewis-hamilton-celebrates-abu-dhabi-sunday-2014.jpg?w=900

antodeco · 23-11-2014 6:38pm

Great picture!!

lolie · 23-11-2014 6:55pm

Niki Lauda flipping the bird to his RTL crew while talking to suzi on the forum.

Slutmonkey57b · 23-11-2014 6:56pm

Gillespy wrote: »

Karma caught up with Rosberg.

67 points is more representative of the season and the gulf in class between the two of them so Double Points has done something.

Rosberg has dominated Hamilton in qualifying. He's beaten him fair and square in many races. Hamilton was better, but to describe the gap as a "gulf" is disingenuous. At one point earlier this year, Hamilton's head was down and people started suggesting Rosberg was going to walk out. That was as ridiculous as suggesting the double points gap at the end was indicative.

mickdw · 23-11-2014 7:07pm

walshb wrote: »

Who's the very attractive girl next to Nicole? In between Nicole and Lewis' brother?

Lewis brothers girlfriend I'm pretty sure.

Gillespy · 23-11-2014 7:08pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Rosberg has dominated Hamilton in qualifying. He's beaten him fair and square in many races. Hamilton was better, but to describe the gap as a "gulf" is disingenuous. At one point earlier this year, Hamilton's head was down and people started suggesting Rosberg was going to walk out. That was as ridiculous as suggesting the double points gap at the end was indicative.

If Rosberg dominated qualifying, what word describes the races? Look up the stats and cite examples from races of why Rosberg was better than a 67 points margin.

I think he has a record number of second place finishes and that's great but that is that car's default position when the other one wins. He hasn't passed Hamilton all season and all his poles are for naught if he doesn't convert them. Average. Flattered by the car. The best driver won and the margin reflects his dominance.

smellslikeshoes · 23-11-2014 7:15pm

Nice touch from Mercedes.

This was driver default #44 that came up on @LewisHamilton's screen on the in lap! HOW COOL IS THAT?!

Mike Litoris · 23-11-2014 7:37pm

frostie500 wrote: »

Photo from perc ferme...

That's awesome Frostie. You probably got your mush on the TV too!

Myrddin · 23-11-2014 7:38pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Rosberg has dominated Hamilton in qualifying. He's beaten him fair and square in many races.

I must be watching a different sport.

Slutmonkey57b · 23-11-2014 8:06pm

Gillespy wrote: »

If Rosberg dominated qualifying, what word describes the races? Look up the stats and cite examples from races of why Rosberg was better than a 67 points margin.

I think he has a record number of second place finishes and that's great but that is that car's default position when the other one wins. He hasn't passed Hamilton all season and all his poles are for naught if he doesn't convert them. Average. Flattered by the car. The best driver won and the margin reflects his dominance.

Your definition of an "average" driver is one who beats Schumacher 3 years in a row and comes a close second to Hamilton twice.

Interesting.

Myrddin · 23-11-2014 8:19pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Your definition of an "average" driver is one who beats Schumacher 3 years in a row and comes a close second to Hamilton twice.

Interesting.

In fairness you believe a person can win a WDC by luck

Slutmonkey57b · 23-11-2014 8:46pm

Myrddin wrote: »

In fairness you believe a person can win a WDC by luck

I do. If Hamilton had dnf'd today instead of Rosberg, I believe most people would have classified Rosberg as a lucky champion. Equally, Lewis was a lucky champion in 2008 when the rain rescued him.

Gillespy · 23-11-2014 8:49pm

You mean the rain at Silverstone?

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Your definition of an "average" driver is one who beats Schumacher 3 years in a row and comes a close second to Hamilton twice.

Interesting.

11 wins to 5. I think Hamilton beat him convincingly. Head to head in races finished was 10-4, make it 9-4 if you want to take today out. Blow qualifying out of all proportions but ignore the real stat.

The manner of those second places is what hasn't impressed me. Austin, for example was weak and he never threatened after. Same in Japan. Bahrain is the best example though to demonstrate the difference between them. That's why I said average.

The worst part of Schumacher's comeback is it being used to prop Rosberg. It does makes Hamilton's achievements look better and it's a crumb of comfort for Webber too I guess.

Slutmonkey57b · 23-11-2014 9:04pm

Gillespy wrote: »

You mean the rain at Silverstone?

11 wins to 5. I think Hamilton beat him convincingly. Head to head in races finished was 10-4, make it 9-4 if you want to take today out. Blow qualifying out of all proportions but ignore the real stat.

The manner of those second places is what hasn't impressed me. Austin, for example was weak and he never threatened after. Same in Japan. Bahrain is the best example though to demonstrate the difference between them. That's why I said average.

The worst part of Schumacher's comeback is it being used to prop Rosberg. It does makes Hamilton's achievements look better and it's a crumb of comfort for Webber too I guess.

The rain in Brazil where drivers ahead of him were on the wrong tyre. He didn't do a good enough job in the race and left himself vulnerable to a driver people wouldn't think is Rosberg's equal, never mind Hamilton's. The rain saved him.

In years gone by when Hamilton out qualified his teammates, people would point to that as an indicator of his superior ability. They can't turn around and ignore it when it works against him.

Rosberg was faster, all else being equal, than Hamilton this year, otherwise he couldn't have beaten him in qualifying. His racecraft wasn't as good, and there were at least 3 races where he effectively gifted Hamilton a win by panicking or making a mistake, which I judge to be understandable in his first year where race wins and championships were truly possible. Hamilton did worse in his first 2 years, and made much worse howlers in 2011 when he was an experienced world champion used to the pressure.

Stats are important so long as the context is known. Rosberg was a much tougher opponent than a 60 point gap suggests. It'll be closer next year, if he irons out his mistakes and nerves.

Gillespy · 23-11-2014 9:28pm

Hamilton won the fastest lap trophy so he is faster when it matters.

Qualifying this year is an anomaly but I don't see anyone ignoring Rosberg's qualifying. It's a lot closer than a lot of people are making out to be if anything and closer still if you exclude Monaco, Germany and Hungary. It's used to mask his race day performances like you're doing right now. Maybe Hamilton is favouring race setup or just hasn't got to grips with the brakes or Rosberg is just quicker. His conversion rate is horrible so ultimately what good did it do him.

Who knows for next year. Hamilton has answers all his critics this year, any doubts about his ability to drive these cars or his temperament are truly answered. The points turnaround since Spa has been incredible -29 to 67. It could go the way Webber/Vettel did.

andyman · 23-11-2014 9:32pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

The rain in Brazil where drivers ahead of him were on the wrong tyre. He didn't do a good enough job in the race and left himself vulnerable to a driver people wouldn't think is Rosberg's equal, never mind Hamilton's. The rain saved him.

In years gone by when Hamilton out qualified his teammates, people would point to that as an indicator of his superior ability. They can't turn around and ignore it when it works against him.

Rosberg was faster, all else being equal, than Hamilton this year, otherwise he couldn't have beaten him in qualifying. His racecraft wasn't as good, and there were at least 3 races where he effectively gifted Hamilton a win by panicking or making a mistake, which I judge to be understandable in his first year where race wins and championships were truly possible. Hamilton did worse in his first 2 years, and made much worse howlers in 2011 when he was an experienced world champion used to the pressure.

Stats are important so long as the context is known. Rosberg was a much tougher opponent than a 60 point gap suggests. It'll be closer next year, if he irons out his mistakes and nerves.

What about Spa in 2008 when Hamilton was robbed out of a win?

Hamilton should be a 3 time Champion now. Trying to talk him down using qualifying results is absolutely pathetic and it's even more pathetic that some people hate him so much that they can't say kudos

When push came to shove, Rosberg wasn't anywhere near of a match to Hamilton. Hamilton was going to give him a free pass if Rosberg could get close enough in Hungary. He couldn't get get close enough. That sums up the gulf between them.

If we want to use qualifying as a stat to judge a driver then it's a travesty that Jarno Trulli was never a world champion.

Qualifying means the square root of **** all unless they can take advantage of it in the race. If Rosberg was so good then the gap wouldn't have been 17 points going into the last race, especially when you consider Hamilton's shocking luck in qualifying this season.

Slutmonkey57b · 23-11-2014 9:53pm

"if you exclude" is a nonsense argument. "if you exclude" the years 2000-2004 Schumacher is only a double champion. "if you exclude" the change in regulations, red bull had the fastest car this year.

andyman · 23-11-2014 9:56pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

"if you exclude" is a nonsense argument. "if you exclude" the years 2000-2004 Schumacher is only a double champion. "if you exclude" the change in regulations, red bull had the fastest car this year.

His argument isn't nonsense though. What happened at Monaco, Germany and Hungary?

Slutmonkey57b · 23-11-2014 10:02pm

andyman wrote: »

What about Spa in 2008 when Hamilton was robbed out of a win?

Hamilton should be a 3 time Champion now. Trying to talk him down using qualifying results is absolutely pathetic and it's even more pathetic that some people hate him so much that they can't say kudos

When push came to shove, Rosberg wasn't anywhere near of a match to Hamilton. Hamilton was going to give him a free pass if Rosberg could get close enough in Hungary. He couldn't get get close enough. That sums up the gulf between them.

If we want to use qualifying as a stat to judge a driver then it's a travesty that Jarno Trulli was never a world champion.

Qualifying means the square root of **** all unless they can take advantage of it in the race. If Rosberg was so good then the gap wouldn't have been 17 points going into the last race, especially when you consider Hamilton's shocking luck in qualifying this season.

"should be"? He made a balls of it in 07 and squandered a 2 win lead. Massa could have won in 2008 if the last corner of the last lap went differently (and some would say he had worse luck than lewis that year). He certainly didn't deserve it in the 4 years Vettel was flawless. You could argue he "should be" a 0 time winner if you tweak enough parameters.

A lot of his fans (like kimi's used to) seem to believe he's the unassailable driving God who can't be questioned. He's good enough not to need that blind devotion.

Rosberg was beaten this year, but far from humiliated and there's no way he could be considered average after the performances he's put in.

Gillespy · 23-11-2014 10:19pm

What performances exactly? 10-4 suggests the choice isn't too big.

Hamilton won 4 in a row and then 5 in a row. Brazil was Rosberg's first win since Germany. Those winning streaks don't reflect well on Rosberg.

AMKC · 23-11-2014 10:20pm

Well done to Rosberg for being so craitios in defeat and for finishing the race too. It was a pity that Rosberg had technical problems. I think in the end the better driver won on the day as he made a better start. Even if if Rosberg had of started better the technical problems he had might have still ruined his race and he might have ended up more annoyed or upset at the end of it. So well done to Lewis and well done to Rosberg for being cool about it. There is always next year.
Hopefully it will be more than just two cars fightiing for the titles next year.

andyman · 23-11-2014 10:26pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

"should be"? He made a balls of it in 07 and squandered a 2 win lead. Massa could have won in 2008 if the last corner of the last lap went differently (and some would say he had worse luck than lewis that year). He certainly didn't deserve it in the 4 years Vettel was flawless. You could argue he "should be" a 0 time winner if you tweak enough parameters.

A lot of his fans (like kimi's used to) seem to believe he's the unassailable driving God who can't be questioned. He's good enough not to need that blind devotion.

Rosberg was beaten this year, but far from humiliated and there's no way he could be considered average after the performances he's put in.

Answer my question, what about Spa 2008 where he was robbed of a victory?

By the way, the only reason people defend Hamilton on here is because there are a number of people who play down his ability for the simple reason that they don't like him.

We get it, you don't like him, but don't insult the intelligence of the posters on this board by trying to say that if you shift the parameters then he should be a zero time world champion. Whatever about 2007 and 2008, but I have seen nothing from this season that suggests anyone else apart from Hamilton should be World Champion

Rosberg was second best in a two-horse race by a mile. You can throw your waffle about qualifying all you want, but you don't win Championships by doing qualifying laps. You win it over an hour and a half to two hours of pure racing. Rosberg never got the better of Hamilton in the races when the two of them were together. He never once passed Hamilton on the track and in two races (Canada, Italy) the sheer fact that Hamilton was chasing him forced Rosberg off the track.

Actually, I'm intrigued, what parameters could you shift this season where the result would be different?

Mike Litoris · 23-11-2014 10:57pm

It was mentioned a few times during the season and Toto Wolf said it yesterday that Hamilton sets his car up more for the race than Rosberg. It would go some way to explaining how Hamilton was able to reign him in during a lot of the races after Rosberg got pole.

CFlat · 23-11-2014 11:38pm

Rosberg has been a journeyman driver all his life. He got the gig with Merc cause they wanted two German drivers. Schumacher brought the sponsers and Merc thought that Rosberg was a solid no 2 driver. It turned out that Schumacher was well past his sell by date and as a result Rosberg started to look good.

11 wins versus 5 wins is a good enough reason for Hamilton to have won the WDC.

Rosberg should have converted more of his poles into wins and he didn't.

frostie500 · 24-11-2014 12:04am

Some photos from the race for anyone that's interested:

I went down to the Merc garage beforehand to snap a few photos, Rosberg looked to be really fired up whereas Hamilton was ultra calm, almost subdued. The atmosphere in the garage was unbelievable. It was so quite with the area absolutely packed but hardly a sound until they fired up the engines...

nico-rosberg-abu-dhabi-sunday-2014-11.jpg?w=640&h=426

nico-rosberg-abu-dhabi-sunday-2014-2.jpg?w=640&h=426

lewis-hamilton-abu-dhabi-sunday-2014-2.jpg?w=640&h=426

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kevin-magnussen-abu-dhabi-sunday-2014-2.jpg?w=640&h=426

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fernando-alonso-abu-dhabi-sunday-2014-3.jpg?w=640&h=426

fireworks-abu-dhabi-sunday-2014.jpg?w=640&h=426

lewis-hamilton-abu-dhabi-sunday-2014-10.jpg?w=640&h=426

jenson-button-kevin-magnussen-abu-dhabi-sunday-2014.jpg?w=640&h=426

antodeco · 24-11-2014 12:07am

Is it really as dark as those photos show?

mrsoundie · 24-11-2014 12:08am

frostie500 you have some job. As they say in Essex, I am well jel.

frostie500 · 24-11-2014 12:27am

antodeco wrote: »

Is it really as dark as those photos show?

To be honest....no! It's strange because you don't notice it being dark but when you're far away from the track (say 15m) the camera will play tricks on you and make it darker as well.
I've also underexposed some photos to try and create more of a silhouette then what it is naturally. The sunset shots are an accurate reflection of the light at the time though

frostie500 · 24-11-2014 12:33am

mrsoundie wrote: »

frostie500 you have some job. As they say in Essex, I am well jel.

All I need is to be able to do this full-time and kick in the real job! If anyone has any idea's on how to do this answers on the back of a fiver to the usual address! It's been a fun year for me so far (I've one race left in December) and I've gone to F1, MotoGP, WSBK and Le Mans this year so hopefully next year will be the same. We need to organise a boards trip to a GP at some stage though!

frostie500 · 24-11-2014 12:38am

I'd say that this will be the last of my photo posts from this weekend but wanted to share a few photos of Hamilton's day given that he probably deserves some attention today!

lewis-hamilton-abu-dhabi-sunday-2014-51.jpg?w=640&h=426

lewis-hamilton-abu-dhabi-sunday-2014-191.jpg?w=640&h=426

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lewis-hamilton-abu-dhabi-sunday-2014-61.jpg?w=640&h=426

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lewis-hamilton-abu-dhabi-sunday-2014-161.jpg?w=640&h=426

nicole-scherzinger-abu-dhabi-sunday-2014-31.jpg?w=640&h=426

lewis-hamilton-abu-dhabi-sunday-2014-221.jpg?w=640&h=426

lewis-hamilton-abu-dhabi-sunday-2014-231.jpg?w=640&h=426

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lewis-hamilton-toto-wolff-abu-dhabi-sunday-20141.jpg?w=640&h=426

zombieHanalei · 24-11-2014 1:14am

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Your definition of an "average" driver is one who beats Schumacher 3 years in a row and comes a close second to Hamilton twice.

Interesting.

Schumacher 1991-2006 =/= Schumacher 2010-2012

(That said, Rosberg is above average, but he's not the same class as Hamilton/Alonso)

greedygoblin · 24-11-2014 1:25am

zombieHanalei wrote: »

Schumacher 1991-2006 =/= Schumacher 2010-2012

(That said, Rosberg is above average, but he's not the same class as Hamilton/Alonso)

Agreed. Hamilton and Alonso are the current benchmarks. I wouldn't rate Rosberg as being on the same level as those two in terms of their ability to extract everything possible from the car. That said, I was rooting for Rosberg today. :P

Zcott · 24-11-2014 1:33am

I'd rate Rosberg around a Jenson Button level. Good, may get lucky with a title but usually solid and dependable. A good asset to any team.

zombieHanalei · 24-11-2014 1:37am

Nico made this season interesting, there is a world championship in him, despite the points margin he did run Lewis close. The 2011 and 2013 seasons could have been so much better had Vettel had a decent teammate, this years Merc was arguably more dominant than the Red Bull ever was in the last 5 years, so in terms of adding intrigue to the title race it was important to have competitive team mates in the dominant car.

Lewis is the better driver but if Nico can take him to the final race then he can win the title. I'd back Lewis every time but Nico will keep him honest as long as they are teammates.

Hopefully another team will match Mercedes next season but I just can't see it. Surely Honda won't have produced a power unit better than or as good as the Mercedes next season? I hope so but I just can't see it happening.

greedygoblin · 24-11-2014 1:50am

I think something that helped Lewis this year, from a psychological perspective at least, is the fact he has been involved in several title fights before. The experience he's gained from those told in his approach this year I think. This weekend for example he seemed completely detached from everything around him, kind of zoned out, in a zen-like state. It seemed he was immune from the excitement/fear/uncertainty that existed around him within the team.

I think that is something Rosberg lacked, the fact he hasn't been in such a situation in F1 before. No doubt the experience of this year, and the fact he's come so close to a world title will spur him on now to challenge Hamilton again next year, and who knows, maybe outperform him.

Slutmonkey57b · 24-11-2014 1:57am

andyman wrote: »

Answer my question, what about Spa 2008 where he was robbed of a victory?

Actually, I'm intrigued, what parameters could you shift this season where the result would be different?

I have answered your question, and by the end of your comment you're closer to understanding it.

If you take the position "excluding fact X I'm right" then all you're doing is goal seeking : deciding what numbers you want at the end, then picking out whatever gives you that answer.

Anybody can do the same for a different answer, by picking different things to exclude. All I've done is give you a couple of examples of how I can do the same thing to "prove" something you apparently don't want to hear. Neither of these positions (yours or mine) is objectively true, because we're both goal seeking from the same data, towards different answers.

Here is another simple example : would you say that Nico was "gifted" a win in brasil due to Hamilton's mistake? There's an argument which could be made on either side, depending on what you choose to exclude. Let's say you argue in favour of Nico, by pointing out he was quickest in every session, all weekend, and Lewis couldn't overtake him on track. A Lewis fan might then point out that there was the "reeling 7 seconds in" part of the race which proves a Lewis win was "inevitable". Both positions have merit but neither is indelibly true. And if you argue that Lewis "gifted" Rosberg a win, then how come Lewis wasn't "gifted" a win in monza? Because he's Lewis?

It's perfectly fine to be a fan of Lewis, or even be someone who thinks he's the fastest driver on the grid (as many people who personally dislike him are quite happy to admit), without taking the attitude that he's the be all and end all, and other drivers are rubbish.

Rosberg was beaten this year, and Hamilton deserved the championship, but he didn't wipe the floor with Nico, and there wasn't the "gulf" in quality you're talking about, because Nico put a lot of pressure on Lewis this year. Without a summer break to regather himself, Lewis said himself he might not have come back so strong.

It's perfectly ok to give Lewis credit without running down his opponents, particularly when you have to deliberately ignore evidence disproves that.

Slutmonkey57b · 24-11-2014 2:06am

greedygoblin wrote: »

I think something that helped Lewis this year, from a psychological perspective at least, is the fact he has been involved in several title fights before. The experience he's gained from those told in his approach this year I think. This weekend for example he seemed completely detached from everything around him, kind of zoned out, in a zen-like state. It seemed he was immune from the excitement/fear/uncertainty that existed around him within the team.

I think that is something Rosberg lacked, the fact he hasn't been in such a situation in F1 before. No doubt the experience of this year, and the fact he's come so close to a world title will spur him on now to challenge Hamilton again next year, and who knows, maybe outperform him.

I'd have to agree. If you look at the races Nico was pressured into mistakes, he's much behind the curve of where Lewis has got to deal with nerves. There are very few champion drivers who have managed to get through their f1 careers without them : Schumacher, Clarke and Stewart are the only ones who come to mind. Alonso had his meltdown in 07, prost had his running to the stewards efforts, hakkinen had a ropey start at times.

It looks good for next year, particularly if Alonso has a competitive car, we could have a 3 or 4 horse race again.

Gillespy · 24-11-2014 2:53am

11-5 in wins. 10-4 in head to head race finishes. Where is the evidence that Rosberg hasn't been dominated and that there isn't a gulf between them? If you have it, why not share it?

Reliability is the only reason Rosberg ever had a 29 point lead. As soon as that balanced itself out, the points table started telling the truth.

24-11-2014 8:18am

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

It looks good for next year, particularly if Alonso has a competitive car, we could have a 3 or 4 horse race again.

McLaren were what, 1.5 seconds off the pace this year? And likely to not have as good an engine next year. Can't see anything but further Mercedes dominance next year tbh.

Slutmonkey57b · 24-11-2014 11:59am

Gillespy wrote: »

11-5 in wins. 10-4 in head to head race finishes. Where is the evidence that Rosberg hasn't been dominated and that there isn't a gulf between them? If you have it, why not share it?

Reliability is the only reason Rosberg ever had a 29 point lead. As soon as that balanced itself out, the points table started telling the truth.

And why is that evidence of dominance, but the qualifying stat, which goes the other way in an equally dominant fashion, can be ignored? Because it's inconvenient? Because it suggests that the two drivers performances aren't as simple as stats suggest?

Your statement is "I've made a decision, then cherry picked numbers which support me, tweaked them afterwards to make it look even better, ignored those which don't, and demand you agree with me".

No thanks.

Slutmonkey57b · 24-11-2014 12:02pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

McLaren were what, 1.5 seconds off the pace this year? And likely to not have as good an engine next year. Can't see anything but further Mercedes dominance next year tbh.

I have to say I'd agree. No harm in being optimistic, though!

Gillespy · 24-11-2014 1:15pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

And why is that evidence of dominance, but the qualifying stat, which goes the other way in an equally dominant fashion, can be ignored? Because it's inconvenient? Because it suggests that the two drivers performances aren't as simple as stats suggest?

Your statement is "I've made a decision, then cherry picked numbers which support me, tweaked them afterwards to make it look even better, ignored those which don't, and demand you agree with me".

No thanks.

I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. F1 is a stats based sport and besides, I don't see how taking the stats out of it helps Rosberg? Take Hungary for example, Rosberg spend a whole stint behind JEV, had to pit to overtake him. Hamilton only needed a few corners to clear him. Rosberg came fourth that day and Hamilton third. Guess who started on pole and who started from the pitlane?

cherryghost · 24-11-2014 1:41pm

Sorry but ignoring everything my favourite moment of the weekend was Maldonado's car going up in flames and everyone in the garage laughing about it

zombieHanalei · 24-11-2014 1:50pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

And why is that evidence of dominance, but the qualifying stat, which goes the other way in an equally dominant fashion, can be ignored? Because it's inconvenient? Because it suggests that the two drivers performances aren't as simple as stats suggest?

Your statement is "I've made a decision, then cherry picked numbers which support me, tweaked them afterwards to make it look even better, ignored those which don't, and demand you agree with me".

No thanks.

In fairness, qualifying means nothing if you don't have the race pace to back it up. I'm pretty sure the qualification trophy is of absolutely no consolation to Nico right now. End of the day it's what a driver does in the race that matters, you don't earn points for grid positions.

Also, your assessment of Gillespy's "statement" is completely wrong. He's no more "demanding" that people agree with him than you are.

andyman · 24-11-2014 1:57pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

And why is that evidence of dominance, but the qualifying stat, which goes the other way in an equally dominant fashion, can be ignored? Because it's inconvenient? Because it suggests that the two drivers performances aren't as simple as stats suggest?

No, because qualifying means nothing if you can't take advantage of it in the race. For all of Nico's qualifying exploits, on race day there was a lot between him and Hamilton.

Going Strong · 24-11-2014 2:08pm

cherryghost wrote: »

Sorry but ignoring everything my favourite moment of the weekend was Maldonado's car going up in flames and everyone in the garage laughing about it

I'd say it summed up the team's relationship with Renault.

Slutmonkey57b · 24-11-2014 3:26pm

If we belive qualifying is unimportant, then can we also assume that Lewis's qualification stats don't diminish button's points advantage when they were teammates?

So, based on race results, button is a much better driver than Lewis, right?

No? Qualifying indicates Lewis had "raw pace" over button?

How about the argument "if you exclude" 2011 when Lewis had a meltdown and made a bunch of mistakes under pressure, the scores "would be different"? Then we're back to" if Lewis gifted button a win by making a mistake, why isn't his win in monza this year a gift from Nico?", aren't we?

All I've done is raise some pretty simple counterpoints which undermine the idea that one stat, ignoring context, doesn't tell a whole story. If that's troublesome then... I dunno, remember context?

Sunny Dayz · 24-11-2014 3:29pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

It certainly was after the year we have had all you can do is laugh kinda moment. My favourite part of the weekend was Mercedes telling Rosberg to pit in and he told them he was finishing. That I did like, may even get him a few more fans.

Fair play to him. I'm not much of a Rosberg fan (the young man in the house is Hamilton's biggest fan). But I thought Mercedes just abandoned Rosberg yesterday, they didn't give a flying F about him once the first few seconds of the race had passed and they realised the championship was decided.

Formula 1 2014: Round 19 - Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

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