2004 Focus 1.8 TDDI Estate

Dr Pepper · 22-04-2013 2:26pm #1

Hi All,

I have a very unusual intermittent starting problem with my 2004 1.8 TDDI estate.

This only happens after a very specific sequence of events. If I start the car cold and drive to my parent's house (only about 1 minute away), stop the engine - the next time I try to start it, it will not start (whether it's 5 minutes or 5 hours later). It will turn over no problem (battery and starter both fine), it just will not 'catch'. Sometimes it will start after 30-60 seconds of pretty much constant turning (with a bit of stuttering and a cloud of white smoke from the exhaust). Other times it will not start at all and the only way to get it back to life is to tow it for several minutes with the clutch out. Funnily enough, it never happens if I drive to the shops (2 minutes away). It also won't happen if I drive to my parent's and leave it running for a minute or two, before stopping - it's very specific.

Glow plugs, fuel filter, oil filter, oil, battery, starter & timing belt all replaced within the last few months. This has been going on pretty much since I got the car last October. It is 100% reproducible and predictable at this stage! It is not starting now so might be a good opportunity to do some tests. A couple of local garages have looked at this and there has been a good bit of money spent, but still no joy.

Any ideas/suggestions?

Thanks,
Brian

cletus · 22-04-2013 3:47pm

Could be wrong here but i think this has something to do with starting the car and driving a very short distance, the ecu prevents it from starting again too soon. Will have a look and be back to edit my post

Right seems like I'm mis-remembering some other issue, as a 5 minute search on google shows nothing that looks familiar.

However, it seems that the alternator may be a weak point on the focus, so it mighgt be worth checking that out

Dr Pepper · 23-04-2013 10:14am

Thanks for that cletus. I'll check that out if my current efforts don't work out - I may have made some progress with this last night. I have suspected all along that it's a fuel supply issue and that there might be a problem with pressure from the tank to the engine. This will probably sound daft but I opened the diesel cap and used a foot pump to try and increase the pressure in the tank temporarily while trying to start it (sealed around the foot pump hose with a plastic bag). It started after 15-20 seconds. However, this may be just a coincidence! More testing required.

Question: Does anybody know if the 1.8 TDDI (older engine) is supposed to have a fuel pump at the tank end? I think I remember reading before that it doesn't but on the off chance that it does, that may be my problem.

MugMugs · 23-04-2013 10:21am

cletus wrote: »

Could be wrong here but i think this has something to do with starting the car and driving a very short distance, the ecu prevents it from starting again too soon. Will have a look and be back to edit my post

You're kidding, right?

cletus · 23-04-2013 10:32am

MugMugs wrote: »

You're kidding, right?

Actually not that I was kidding MugMugs, but I was convinced that I had read a similar problem before (not necessarily here) and the issue was possibly. with the car not reaching operating temp on very short trips. I thought, in fact, that the person with the issue found it while reversing his car around the side of the house when cold. It struck me as strange at the time, which is why it stuck in my head, although having tried to find the info again, it appears it may have been a very lucid dream

dougie-lampkin · 23-04-2013 10:57am

Dr Pepper wrote: »

Thanks for that cletus. I'll check that out if my current efforts don't work out - I may have made some progress with this last night. I have suspected all along that it's a fuel supply issue and that there might be a problem with pressure from the tank to the engine. This will probably sound daft but I opened the diesel cap and used a foot pump to try and increase the pressure in the tank temporarily while trying to start it (sealed around the foot pump hose with a plastic bag). It started after 15-20 seconds. However, this may be just a coincidence! More testing required.

Question: Does anybody know if the 1.8 TDDI (older engine) is supposed to have a fuel pump at the tank end? I think I remember reading before that it doesn't but on the off chance that it does, that may be my problem.

The TDDI has no lift pump, and no way of priming the system at the fuel pump end. Your way of pressurising it with the foot pump is actually one of the more common DIY approaches. The official way is to replace the return line from the injectors with a hand pump, and pull diesel through.

My guess is that you have a split diesel pipe letting air in. A short run allows the air to reach the pump where it gets stuck, but on a longer run the pump can pull it through. I'd start with the leak off pipes that join the injectors and the return line, they're only a couple of € to get and they are a common failure on most DI diesels. Failing that, see if you can replace the main line coming in to the pump with a transparent hose. If you do have a leak, you'll see bubbles travelling down the line. Then it's just a matter of replacing each section of pipe from the tank with transparent hose until you find where it's drawing in air.

Of course, the simple solution is to leave it running for a minute before shutting off :P

Dr Pepper · 23-04-2013 12:04pm

Hi dougie,

Thanks a million for that. I have a fairly good idea of what you're talking about (in 'theory' having read through it 3 times!). Sounds like you've done this kind of thing before. I'll try out some of your suggestions in the next few days and if you don't mind, I will probably have a couple of questions along the way.

First question - When you say hand pump on the return line, is that something that could be placed inside the car and squeezed a few times on the rare occasion that it's not getting fuel to the injectors? Or would it have to be under the bonnet? (I guess that would only be a workaround solution if I wasn't able to find a faulty hose though).

Cheers,
Brian

dougie-lampkin · 23-04-2013 6:11pm

I've had to do it a few times, I've a very temperamental '00 TDDI. The leak off pipes were the culprit on mine, they were perished and letting in air. It still isn't fantastic, it takes a few turns from cold and then belches out white smoke, but it starts reliably.

The hand pump can't go inside the car, it's an underbonnet job. The Ford one looks like this:

and isn't designed to stay permanently connected as it replaces the fuel return line. You'll have to find the offending hose I'm afraid. You're better off finding it sooner rather than later, every time you crank it or tow start it with an airlock you're doing damage to the fuel pump.

Dr Pepper · 24-04-2013 9:48am

Thanks again dougie-lampkin. I've already burned out a starter motor with this so I'll be avoiding any excessive cranking for now (wow, that sounds really dodgy!). I'm hoping to get a proper look at this at the weekend..

sm1thers · 17-12-2013 11:56pm

Hi,

After my car inherited the exact same problems you describe here and on another forum i was wondering and wanted to know if you managed to get any resolution to your problem?

Everything is pretty much the same on my 02 tddi.

Starts fine one day runs and starts happily for a day or several starts then out of the blue it decides it doesnt want to start? Then surprise surprise after several attempts and some over heating of the coil she starts under alot of protest! Then happy for a few more days! Very frustrating.

Ive recently had a replacement Injector pump fitted and recode done for £300 so im guessing there might be air or something causing back pressure!

To which i'm hoping to follow your guide and cure this fault once and for all!!

Dr Pepper · 18-12-2013 10:40am

Hi Sm1thers,

Sorry, I don't have any good news for you. I eventually got rid of the car, although I very rarely experienced that problem in the last 8 months just by avoiding short runs (e.g. if I was going to my folks house, I'd either start the car a minute before I left or leave it running for a minute when I got there!).

It seems like that engine badly needs a fuel pump at the tank end!

You can get a decent length of replacement hose for €5-10 at your local motor factors so that might be a good place to start, although don't ask me about the specifics of what sections/where to replace!

Best of luck with it!

Cheers,
Brian

Zcott · 18-12-2013 10:59am

FWIW I had a 2000 TDDI which started reluctantly and was very unhappy to start on a bump. Replaced the hose coming from the fuel filter down to the engine itself and it fired up first time.

Seems the hoses are fairly worn now for a lot of people.

sm1thers · 19-12-2013 12:43am

Hey Brian,

Dont worry no news is good news for the time being! The car is to be looked at by a mechanic tomorrow so we shall see what he considers to be the problem!

Whats most annoying is that before the car decided to fry the EDC transistor on the Injector pump the car was running like a dream! Now ive had a second hand replacement fitted this fault has arisen.

And thanks Zcott i will look into this depending on the call back from the mechanic tomorrow!

dougie-lampkin · 19-12-2013 1:31pm

sm1thers wrote: »

Whats most annoying is that before the car decided to fry the EDC transistor on the Injector pump the car was running like a dream! Now ive had a second hand replacement fitted this fault has arisen.

I've read that's a pretty common problem, the pump relies on heat transfer from the diesel to cool the ECM on top of the pump :eek: I've heard of owners replacing just the fried components, but I'm not sure how involved this is.

If the fault has only arisen after changing the pump then you don't have too much piping to look at. Look to see what was displaced when the pump was swapped, likely just the hoses to/from the fuel filter and the injector pipe unions.

sth_safal · 06-07-2014 4:21pm

Hi, I am having a similar problem with my focus tddi 03. I was teaching my girlfriend driving and the car stalled hard. The car isn't starting anymore. Thought it was the EDC module and repaired it but still doesn't start. The mechanic says it starts with the easy start. The car was running perfect before stall. It has been one month in the garage now and still we havn't diagnosed the fault. Am I missing anything? Is there anything I can try ?please suggest. Any help is much appreciated.

Safal

sth_safal · 06-07-2014 4:27pm

Hi, I am having a similar problem with my focus tddi 03. I was teaching my girlfriend driving and the car stalled hard. The car isn't starting anymore. Thought it was the EDC module and repaired it but still doesn't start. The mechanic says it starts with the easy start. The car was running perfect before stall. It has been one month in the garage now and still we havn't diagnosed the fault. Am I missing anything? Is there anything I can try ?please suggest. Any help is much appreciated.

Safal

Zcott · 06-07-2014 9:03pm

Try checking for air in the fuel lines.

sth_safal · 10-07-2014 4:33pm

Zcott wrote: »

Try checking for air in the fuel lines.

Did that, found out that the fuel filter was leaking. The car starts now but cold start is usually a headache. The engine needs to be turned for 10-20seconds, white fumes come out and engine makes a hiccup. I turn ignition off and start again and it starts in about 3 seconds. Once started, warm starts are normal and there is no loss in performance. Have tried changing all the glow plugs with original bosch ones. Changes fuel/air/oil filter. Changed relays.

2004 Focus 1.8 TDDI Estate

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