Neary Warns of Double Standards Over Respect for Religion

mikhail · 27-07-2014 4:18pm #1

The archbishop is quoted as saying the following at the mass they hold on Croagh Patrick.

“Anyone who dishonours the faith of Israel, its image of God or its great figures must pay a fine. The same is true for anyone who insults the Koran and the convictions of Islam. But when it comes to Jesus Christ and that which is sacred to Christians there seems to be a different standard; freedom of expression knows no limits,” he said.

“We have become accustomed to Christianity being marginalised in the public domain, instanced by the banning of Christian symbols in certain quarters,” he said. Attempts were being made “to reshape the values of the Irish people in ways that are fundamentally opposed to the gospel,” he said.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/neary-warns-of-double-standards-over-respect-for-religions-1.1879620

Is this what it's come to? Do they have to resort to outright fabrication to pretend they're being oppressed?

PopePalpatine · 27-07-2014 4:31pm

Expect this to get echoed by the Ionanists.

Nodin · 27-07-2014 4:33pm

mikhail wrote: »

The archbishop is quoted as saying the following at the mass they hold on Croagh Patrick.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/neary-warns-of-double-standards-over-respect-for-religions-1.1879620

Is this what it's come to? Do they have to resort to outright fabrication to pretend they're being oppressed?

Has somebody been done for blasphemy with regard to Judaism and Islam and we were asleep?

Cabaal · 27-07-2014 4:47pm

If they feel they've been blasphemed then why don't they use Irelands silly law to pursue it? Until then he can shut up,

the vast majority of outrage at the Catholic Church was caused by the Catholic churches handling of sex abuse, allowing sex abuse to happen over and over whilst doing nothing and their backwards views on women and gay people.

P_1 · 27-07-2014 4:52pm

The last time I checked we weren't living in a society that has laws based on Islam or Judaism. Until such a time arrives when Catholicism doesn't have such an influence on our society then it's fair game in my eyes.

Delirium · 27-07-2014 4:58pm

Marginalised? Remind me what group dominates the health and education sector? How exactly does holding a virtual monopoly equate to marginalisation?

PopePalpatine · 27-07-2014 5:40pm

SW wrote: »

Marginalised? Remind what group dominates the health and education sector? How exactly does holding a virtual monopoly equate to marginalisation?

It's only a virtual monopoly.

Cabaal · 27-07-2014 6:32pm

SW wrote: »

How exactly does holding a virtual monopoly equate to marginalisation?

Cause they say it is

Hotblack Desiato · 27-07-2014 8:36pm

the banning of Christian symbols in certain quarters

I'd love to know wtf that is referring to.

Not that religious symbols shouldn't be removed from public buildings, etc. but are there any actual instances of this happening in Ireland?

Penny 4 Thoughts · 27-07-2014 8:38pm

mikhail wrote: »

The archbishop is quoted as saying the following at the mass they hold on Croagh Patrick.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/neary-warns-of-double-standards-over-respect-for-religions-1.1879620

Is this what it's come to? Do they have to resort to outright fabrication to pretend they're being oppressed?

Ah yes, the "you would never get them saying that about da Muslims" defense

recedite · 27-07-2014 8:39pm

He seems to be pining for some lost theocracy, perhaps that which once seemed to be all-powerful, when as a young lad he first signed up for the priesthood.
If only we could have a Catholic Caliphate, he'd be entitled to so much respect from everyone.

peckerhead · 27-07-2014 8:41pm

He can kiss my ring.

Respectfully.

shruikan2553 · 27-07-2014 11:46pm

ah yes, the victim complex complex the catholics have been getting recently. They have it so tough....wait one second, guys, christian marriage is between a man and a woman because we say so, so you arent doing it. Where was I? Oh yes, it must be so difficult being marginalised, is that a non catholic? Down to the bottom of the list for getting into the only school nearby.

Oh no wait, some mean person on the internet said sky fairy. Is that the problem? Maybe they shouldnt have marginalised anyone who went against catholic teachings.

Turtwig · 28-07-2014 2:30am

Wah wah wah it's not fair we don't get specialist protection like that of other religions where people who go against the herd are prosecuted or maimed.

The Catholic church hierarchy really does have it's head up it's arse. Even many local priests would have cringed at those remarks. My pp always said we need people to challenge our beliefs, because if they don't how can we ever claim we understand those beliefs and if we don't understand what we believe what is the point of believing in the first place?

That was the paraphrased gist of his advice to a troubled teen turtwig worrying about atheists. I can't help but wonder what Dr Neary's advice would have been.

GarIT · 28-07-2014 2:48am

It's difficult to find somebody that hates the RCC as much as me but I actually think he is right.

Nodin · 28-07-2014 5:30am

GarIT wrote: »

It's difficult to find somebody that hates the RCC as much as me but I actually think he is right.

Do please explain.

GarIT · 28-07-2014 9:12am

Nodin wrote: »

Do please explain.

From my experience being a Christian attracts more comments than any other religion. If someone said they are Christian I would probably consider telling them why they are wrong etc, but if it was another religion I wouldn't interfere. I think it's because I know more about Christianity I can point out it's flaws easier than other religions.

shruikan2553 · 28-07-2014 9:24am

GarIT wrote: »

From my experience being a Christian attracts more comments than any other religion. If someone said they are Christian I would probably consider telling them why they are wrong etc, but if it was another religion I wouldn't interfere. I think it's because I know more about Christianity I can point out it's flaws easier than other religions.

I would say that does come into it. I'm less likely to care about what Jews or Scientology think because they aren't expecting the government to follow their rules.

smacl · 28-07-2014 9:32am

GarIT wrote: »

From my experience being a Christian attracts more comments than any other religion. If someone said they are Christian I would probably consider telling them why they are wrong etc, but if it was another religion I wouldn't interfere. I think it's because I know more about Christianity I can point out it's flaws easier than other religions.

The simple reason for this is that Christians make up the larger part of Ireland's population. If you were to normalise the number of negative comments based on the number of practitioners of any given religion, Christianity would doubtless come out last. For example, I would imagine the amount of anti-Islamic comments per Muslim in Ireland is a large multiple of the amount of anti-Catholic comments per Catholic. Given the crisis in Gaza, criticism of Israel and Judaism is also very high and visible (and rightly so IMHO).

Thankfully, we're also in a country that largely allows freedom of speech, whereas in many Islamic regimes there is zero tolerance for criticism of Islam.

I for one am delighted to see the ageing Catholic hierarchy diminish both numerically and in the power they wield, and watching them bitch about this over the course of their demise brings an unashamedly smug smile to my face.

Akrasia · 28-07-2014 9:45am

Christians in the 21st century should expect that their religion faces ridicule because the religion is ridiculous.

For thousands of years the church enforced reverence and belief by force. People were tortured and executed for daring to question the tenets of the faith. People were forbidden from owning bibles in their own language, the mass was said in Latin, a language the vast majority of the people could not understand. The clergy ruled through fear.

In the few short decades since mass communication has been possible, the utter silliness of the christian faith has become obvious to more and more people and it is now acceptable to discuss these things without the fear of losing everything.

Since 'The life of Brian' it has been ok to laugh openly about the silly aspects of religion. The silliest idea of all, being that we can trust a single word written in any holy book as being an accurate account of real life events.

Blessed are the cheesemakers

This is what the church are lamenting. The fact that they can't shut down dissent, that they can't force people to defer to the clergy, that they can't lie to the people and control what they see and hear and think about the religion.

There are plenty of Clergy who are deeply jealous of the kind of totalitarian control the likes of the Taliban have over minds of the people they control.

Penn · 28-07-2014 9:54am

Surely by preaching the religion of Christianity, he is actually dishonouring the religions of Judaism and Islam himself?

expectationlost · 28-07-2014 10:18am

this is because we are (or were ) Christian, although he does put a positive spin on it, saying if we can see positives and speak up for them in other religions we should be able to see them in Christianity, this double standards line is usually used by racists wanting people who don't spend all day insulting Muslims to join them.

Cabaal · 28-07-2014 10:19am

Penn wrote: »

Surely by preaching the religion of Christianity, he is actually dishonouring the religions of Judaism and Islam himself?

He is, but don't tell him that.....facts are inconvenient for him.

GarIT · 28-07-2014 10:43am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPLfv9umERU

PopePalpatine · 28-07-2014 11:12am

I'm surprised - 24 (now 25) posts in and a regular from t'udder forum hasn't done a drive-by post yet!

shruikan2553 · 28-07-2014 11:23am

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'm surprised - 24 (now 25) posts in and a regular from t'udder forum hasn't done a drive-by post yet!

Speak of the devil and he shall appear. I'm sure we'll get one post that is factually wrong and then read people explaining how it is wrong and then see them in the next thread.

Kiwi in IE · 28-07-2014 1:15pm

Christianity is a load of bollocks!
Judaism is a load of bollocks!
Islam is a load of bollocks!

Apparently I should expect to recieve two fines!

P_1 · 28-07-2014 1:18pm

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Christianity is a load of bollocks!
Judaism is a load of bollocks!
Islam is a load of bollocks!

Apparently I should expect to recieve two fines!

Organised religion is a load of bollocks! There I've just saved you two fines :cool:

legspin · 28-07-2014 1:27pm

P_1 wrote: »

Organised religion is a load of bollocks! There I've just saved you two fines :cool:

All religions, surely?

Akrasia · 28-07-2014 1:46pm

legspin wrote: »

All religions, surely?

Not the Skoptsy religion, their religion has far fewer bollox than one would normally expect

Nodin · 28-07-2014 4:50pm

GarIT wrote: »

From my experience being a Christian attracts more comments than any other religion. If someone said they are Christian I would probably consider telling them why they are wrong etc, but if it was another religion I wouldn't interfere. I think it's because I know more about Christianity I can point out it's flaws easier than other religions.

That's true, but doesn't seem to be the point he's making. He's actually factually wrong in talking about fines for slagging off Judaism or Islam.

P_1 · 28-07-2014 5:48pm

Nodin wrote: »

That's true, but doesn't seem to be the point he's making. He's actually factually wrong in talking about fines for slagging off Judaism or Islam.

To be fair I think he was referring to Israel and Arab nations where, presumably one can be fined for mocking the relevant deity. Frankly that's something we can do without in this society.

Nodin · 28-07-2014 5:51pm

P_1 wrote: »

To be fair I think he was referring to Israel and Arab nations where, presumably one can be fined for mocking the relevant deity. Frankly that's something we can do without in this society.

Read it again, and tbh I don't think that's the case.

Archbishop of Tuam Michael Neary has warned against double standards when it comes to respect for religions other than Christianity about which, he said, people seemed free to say anything.
“Anyone who dishonours the faith of Israel, its image of God or its great figures must pay a fine. The same is true for anyone who insults the Koran and the convictions of Islam. But when it comes to Jesus Christ and that which is sacred to Christians there seems to be a different standard; freedom of expression knows no limits,” he said.
“We have become accustomed to Christianity being marginalised in the public domain, instanced by the banning of Christian symbols in certain quarters,” he said. Attempts were being made “to reshape the values of the Irish people in ways that are fundamentally opposed to the gospel,” he said.

Speaking at the summit of Croagh Patrick during the 10.30am Mass there this morning he asked whether “in our commendable endeavour to become more understanding of the values of others have we lost our capacity to uphold and respect our own values?”
He said that “ if all we can see in our own religious tradition is the negative and destructive then we are no longer capable of recognising what is good, wholesome, life-giving and positive in any religion or culture. The reality is that we can only value the sacred traditions of others with respect if we have an appreciation of our own sacred traditions. In this way we can enable others to reclaim what is best in their heritage.”
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/neary-warns-of-double-standards-over-respect-for-religions-1.1879620

P_1 · 28-07-2014 5:59pm

Nodin, I've yet to hear of anybody in Ireland being fined for mocking any religious faith and I'd imagine that the internet would probably have exploded if that was the case.

Nodin · 28-07-2014 6:03pm

P_1 wrote: »

Nodin, I've yet to hear of anybody in Ireland being fined for mocking any religious faith and I'd imagine that the internet would probably have exploded if that was the case.

Indeed, but you seem to be thinking that just because he appears to be talking complete bollocks, he must be referring to something else. Given the rest of his talk, I see no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt.

P_1 · 28-07-2014 7:12pm

Nodin wrote: »

Indeed, but you seem to be thinking that just because he appears to be talking complete bollocks, he must be referring to something else. Given the rest of his talk, I see no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Fair enough I must have picked you up wrong. I do suppose we can file the bishop's comments under the 'mad ramblings of a crazy old man' category.

magicbastarder · 29-07-2014 3:23pm

did hugh linehan just invent the phrase 'bouncy castle catholics'? if so, fair play:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/sermon-on-the-mount-reveals-deep-insecurities-1.1880745

Skrynesaver · 29-07-2014 3:29pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

did hugh linehan just invent the phrase 'bouncy castle catholics'? if so, fair play:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/sermon-on-the-mount-reveals-deep-insecurities-1.1880745

It's fairly apt for the hatch,match and dispatch crew that don't darken the door of the church otherwise but lie on the census form (though I've yet to see a bouncy castle at a funeral)

Brian Shanahan · 29-07-2014 3:45pm

mikhail wrote: »

Is this what it's come to? Do they have to resort to outright fabrication to pretend they're being oppressed?

[O'Brien]The truth is what we make of it in the Party, Winston. Or have you forgotten that lesson already?[/O'Brien]

mikhail · 29-07-2014 3:59pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

did hugh linehan just invent the phrase 'bouncy castle catholics'? if so, fair play:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/sermon-on-the-mount-reveals-deep-insecurities-1.1880745

Did he just suggest we're fanatics for thinking those people are hypocrits implicitly supporting an eductional system that discriminates against those who won't or can't play their game?

So Bouncy Castle Catholics put their kids through First Communion without trying to pretend they believe it, and most non-Catholics accept the Father Ted-isms of the televised Angelus as one of those oddities, like red lemonade, that make us what we are. Only oddballs and fanatics, surely, would want to sweep all this away?

Yes he did. What an asshole.

magicbastarder · 29-07-2014 4:08pm

i suspect he was speaking tongue in cheek.

robindch · 29-07-2014 4:17pm

mikhail wrote: »

Neary Warns of Double Standards Over Respect for Religion

Deliciously ironic.

mikhail · 29-07-2014 4:21pm

robindch wrote: »

Deliciously ironic.

Eh?

PopePalpatine · 29-07-2014 7:19pm

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

[O'Brien]The truth is what we make of it in the Party, Winston. Or have you forgotten that lesson already?[/O'Brien]

The surname "O'Brien" seems quite apt for this subject.

Hotblack Desiato · 29-07-2014 9:15pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

did hugh linehan just invent the phrase 'bouncy castle catholics'?

Nope my wife has been using it for a couple of years now, and I think she heard it on the radio back when Tom Dunne was still doing his daytime show.

Neary Warns of Double Standards Over Respect for Religion

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