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Your Controversial Opinion

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    basically what that attitude boils down to is 'i don't like how or why that person is voting, so i would gladly remove their right to vote'.
    Its not removing their right to vote, its just making them work a bit harder before getting to exercise it.
    Someone who understands the system intimately can still vote for the "parish pump" type politician. The type of person with big business interests who stands to benefit big time. But its the people who get the crumbs (like help with filling out a form, a free taxi ride to the polling station, or a pothole filled outside their house) that deliver the critical number of votes to get the crooks elected.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭DazMarz


    My controversial opinions:

    -There is no better fúcking drummer than Neil Peart

    -Megadeth are better than Metallica

    -Ronaldo is better than Messi

    -Pep Guardiola is not a good manager

    -Fine Gael are actually doing a good job, considering the fúcking mess they had to clean up

    -Sinn Féin are well on their way to becoming Fianna Fáil Mk II

    -There are no proper left leaning political parties left in Ireland. You have either champagne socialists, Republican whackjobs or commie loo-la's. A liberal party that is left leaning but grounded in reality is badly needed.

    -GTA: Vice City is the best video game ever. Ever.

    -More water...


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,331 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    recedite wrote: »
    Its not removing their right to vote, its just making them work a bit harder before getting to exercise it.
    the original post on this topic stated 'you would have to pass a test'; which clearly implies removing the ability to vote for those who fail it.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,331 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    it's funny, there's a lot of hand wringing over the lack of public engagement with the political process (in general), and the solution being proposed here is to reduce that engagement.
    if the political system rewards lazy voting, the above solution is tackling a symptom, not the cause.
    and i don't see how it necessarily tackles the issue of parish pump politics, apart from the 'you'd get a better class of voter' belief.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Well, I don't always vote, but I might vote more often if I thought there were some extra restrictions. Yes, I know its a bit of a paradox!
    Sometimes it seems pointless. Knowing that the other votes were likely to be based on some valid reasoning would add a sense of "value" to the process.
    In some countries there is a legal requirement to vote. So if someone is out of touch or just completely uninterested, they are still supposed to go down to the polling station and make a random choice.
    So in that sense, we already allow some "voluntary disenfranchisement" which is possibly a reasonable "middle ground" position to take.

    There was a proposal a while back to require immigrants wanting Irish "naturalisation" citizenship to pass a civics and language test. Again, a similar idea. Its purpose would not be to exclude people, more to make sure that they were more capable and aware of their rights and responsibilities as a citizen. I don't think it ever happened though.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    jjpep wrote: »
    Doesn't have to have anything to do with class or a person's finances. Make the test free. Make all the study materials free and easily available.

    You honestly think that any system like that is going to last longer than thirty seconds without being gamed so hard that only a tiny few people will pass the test?

    Pull the other leg, it's got bells on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    Turtwig wrote: »
    That the mod team of A & A might be the smartest, sexiest and superior group of Mods ever!

    Not having ever seen a single one of ye, I'll happily concur.
    That lots of fields of academia are littered with rubbish that shouldn't even be approved for publication, particularly post modernist stuff.

    Especially since tenure has been based on a) how often you get stuff published (and they don't care if its in journals which are so desperate that they'd publish the ramblings of a toddler), and b) how much funding you get. Note that there is no longer any mention of quality of research or usefulness of findings.
    Michael bay films are generally enjoyable.

    Only if you take enough bleach to cause permanent brain damage, but not enough to cause death.
    Project maths is actually a step in the right direction.

    Never heard of it.
    The benefits of exercise and certain food stuff are grossly overstated. In fact, health advice in general is of a ridiculously poor standard. Some GP's are totally clueless on what research shows and what one individual popularised study shows.

    Especially considering that most GPs aren't looking at the research but what the drug sales reps, who are more likely to be cheerleaders than science graduates, are giving them.
    Calories and counting them are a terrible idea.

    Some people get fun out of counting things.
    Ireland is one of the greatest places in the world. But it's golden days are probably over. Depending on the decisions taken in the next decade or so it could even end up being a failed state of sorts. Such a decline would be sad to see.

    Given that we've basically a choice of a right wing party which was against the treaty backed by a bunch of spineless soi disant socialists or a right wing party which was for the treaty backed by a bunch of spineless soi disant socialists, we're basicly skewered with a whitewash brush.
    Cognitive behavioral therapy is extremely good but is also overrated. Many forms of mental illness will benefit from medication.

    Not an expert.
    Cars 2 is an enjoyable flick.

    Last film I saw new was Abrams' raping of Star Trek in 2009. I am still a traumatised panda after that one.
    Islam is often a very toxic and eroding ideology.

    Of course. Like all religions it is about controlling the population so a small minority can get away with murder.
    Despite having some crackpot republicans espouse some viewpoints. Libertarianism has some merits and provides a lot if utility to examining society.

    I find nothing redeeming in libertarianism. But then again I find the idea of a small minority having total control over the majority abhorrent.
    Socialism, although given a bad name by Stalin, is probably the my favorite political ideology. My previous name Jernal derived from a great Irish scientist who most people never heard of. Cynically because he was a socialist and had a love for Russia. Although he hated Stalin, who killed most of his colleagues and poisoned what was socialism to him.

    I hate it when people demonise socialism because of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot et al. because if you truly look at them, you would realise that they were all far-right idealogues, having much more in common with Mussolini and Hitler than any true socialist.
    Wealth should be shared between everyone in society. The problem is working out how exactly it should be shared.

    Of course. Naturally nearly every political system in history has been designed to further the concentration of wealth in the hands of a small number of people.
    Nobody in the world gives a sht about what happens in Ireland. We barely make a ripple in international media.

    Anybody who thinks otherwise is very insecure about their place in the world.
    Armageddon, while being ridiculously scientifically inaccurate, did more to promote an interest in science than most films have done.

    Unfortunately.
    Boards will eventually abandon the current thread format was more filter bubble based discussions.

    Big NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
    Filter bubbles badly needs regulation or oversight or something! It's not good for society.

    Big YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!
    Socialising on boards is better for empathy and awareness towards the human condition than actually meeting people in a pub. Where politics, religion ethics etc will almost never be discussed by people. Or if they are people will be gauging what they say.

    Depends on who you are talking to.
    Incest is mostly ok as long it's between two mutually consenting adults.

    Who have no chance of conceiving. Look up the Spanish Hapsburgs some time.
    Irish third level institutions are a bit of farce when it comes to producing graduates who actually have the skills they were supposedly taught. The current culture is completely wrong and they're mostly nothing more than qualification for industry factories with a high proportion of defective products. (Advertised though as being in perfect working condition)

    Yes tailor anything with a public good nature to the needs of private "enterprise" and it invariably doesn't work. As a business graduate, the only learning I received in ethics (surely something necessary in business you'd think) was because a lecturer managed to shoe-horn it into his course on regulation, without any official backing.
    There is no Eurovision conspiracy. Although bloc voting exists the cream still rise to the top. We just enter songs that have no interest in Europe or are in fact shtye.

    That's the conspiracy. The one between RTE, the government and Louis Walsh (although he's more of a cat's paw) to ensure we never win the damned thing again.
    We should abandon manned missions in space and focus massively on robotic rover route m type one. At least for the next half century or so

    On the other hand, if we want to increase the chances of our species surviving longer we need extra-terrestrial colonies.
    The James Webb telescope killed far too many viable astronomy projects. Lisa being a huge loss.

    How?
    People who proclaim their sport the best in the world, especially during television commentary, should be shot!

    Ok that last one isn't serious.

    But true.


    __________________
    DazMarz wrote: »
    My controversial opinions:

    -There is no better fúcking drummer than Neil Peart

    -Megadeth are better than Metallica

    Don't know, don't care.
    -Ronaldo is better than Messi

    <sarcasm>She's a witch! Burn her!</sarcasm> As long as nobody tries to convince me that Rooney's anything other than a lazy lard arse who wasted his potential I stay out of this generation's game of "my player is better than your player". Roy Keane would take on the whole lot of them with his shoelaces tied together and win.
    -Pep Guardiola is not a good manager

    He's good, but he's not yet great.
    -Fine Gael are actually doing a good job, considering the fúcking mess they had to clean up

    Considering that they reneged on their promise to burn the bondholders (mostly foreign vultures happy to take the high interest and eventually guaranteed capital) this is patently not true.
    -Sinn Féin are well on their way to becoming Fianna Fáil Mk II

    Given that every party in the history of the state are essentially clones, mark two is too low.
    -There are no proper left leaning political parties left in Ireland. You have either champagne socialists, Republican whackjobs or commie loo-la's. A liberal party that is left leaning but grounded in reality is badly needed.

    Liberal parties tend to be left in social mores, and hard right in economic policies. The former are good, but the latter are universally disasterous (capitalism as an economic policy is a self destructive system with a half-life of thirty years).
    -GTA: Vice City is the best video game ever. Ever.

    Civ 4 followed by the Football Manager series followed by Fallout 2 (the mod with all the cut content re-added)


    OK for my controversial opinion:

    As a species we're screwed. I fully expect to see the end of human civilisation, if not the species.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,331 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Ireland is one of the greatest places in the world. But it's golden days are probably over. Depending on the decisions taken in the next decade or so it could even end up being a failed state of sorts. Such a decline would be sad to see.
    i'm just wondering what the golden days in ireland were? the slump since 2007, the celtic tiger years, or the time before the 90s when you couldn't get condoms or legally practice homosexuality?
    i was reading that income inequality in ireland has reduced since 2007, one of the few places where it has done so since the crash. i think it was an ESRI report, will see if i can find a link.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    I think it was that time we captured and colonised Scotland, just after the Romans packed up and went home.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,331 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    I think gender quotas in politics is a good idea.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,842 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    As a species we're screwed. I fully expect to see the end of human civilisation, if not the species.

    I once heard someone say we have one of two possible futures ahead: Star Trek or Elysium.

    The Star Trek future offers prosperity to the vast majority of mankind and good relations with intelligent, star-faring extraterrestial species.

    The Elysium future offers prosperity to a tiny minority of mankind, and the rest of humanity is left to a sort of pre-trade union state of oppression by the wealthy. In my opinion, financial libertarianism will probably lead to the Elysium future. Financial libertarianism requires faith in the richest that they will responsibly acquire their wealth and doing so without screwing over their workers. One only needs to look at the Industrial Revolution - where workers' rights in any shape recognisable to us today were afforded only to a lucky few who managed to find the right employer - to see the consequences of totally unrestrained capitalism.

    There's also the matter of ecological sustainability. In this hypothetical world where governments' only role is to protect the basic rights to life and property of their citizens, who would take a chance by funding research into nuclear fusion rather than just burning more oil?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭KahBoom


    ...
    There's also the matter of ecological sustainability. In this hypothetical world where governments' only role is to protect the basic rights to life and property of their citizens, who would take a chance by funding research into nuclear fusion rather than just burning more oil?
    Ya that reminds me of another controversial opinion:
    - Continued economic growth is impossible and unsustainable environmentally, due to the second law of thermodynamics, and todays economic/monetary system inherently depends on permanent economic growth - it is physically impossible for it to last.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,331 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    ∞ = -∞


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Turtwig wrote: »
    That the mod team of A & A might be the smartest, sexiest and superior group of Mods ever!
    Is that a controversial opinion? *sheesh*

    Anyhow:

    0.99999999... recurring {may be|may not be} (delete as appropriate) equal to 1.0


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,110 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    robindch wrote: »
    Anyhow:

    0.99999999... recurring {may be|may not be} (delete as appropriate) equal to 1.0

    Hardly controversial.

    0.999... ≡ 1


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Hardly controversial.

    0.999... ≡ 1
    It came up here a few years back and so far as I recall, turns out to be controversial after all.

    I'd always assumed it true, but it seems to be one of those Hofstadteresque statements which is provable in the context of a counter-example.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,919 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    It's been done before, in South Africa, only then they called it Apartheid.

    Actually it would be closer to the Jim Crow laws in southern US states following the civil war. Voter registration laws e.g. literacy tests for those not 'grandfathered' onto the electoral register, had a very strong racial bias in their effect. But if some poor whites got caught out by them as well, who really cared?

    Interestingly it was the Democrats trying to disenfranchise people then, today it's the Republicans.

    Your system would basically lead to an elite class of voter who would only vote for their own interests, and would ignore issues that had no bearing on their lives, which would lead to people who did not have the means to educate themselves, without democratic representation.

    It's already the case that the concerns of certain sectors of society definitely matter more than others. This correlates to the rate at which they vote and their ability to kick up a fuss, e.g. pensioners with free travel and no job commitments can whip up a crowd outside Dail Eireann at the drop of a hat. And many more of them vote, so politically it's much easier to cut child benefit for poor families than it is to take medical cards or bus passes from pensioners, even those who are quite wealthy by any standard.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    robindch wrote: »
    It came up here a few years back and so far as I recall, turns out to be controversial after all.

    I'd always assumed it true, but it seems to be one of those Hofstadteresque statements which is provable in the context of a counter-example.

    I believe we are straying very close to Godelian (or should that be Godelisch?) incompleteness here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    robindch wrote: »
    0.99999999... recurring {may be|may not be} (delete as appropriate) equal to 1.0

    Well any repeating decimal can be converted to a fraction, e.g. 0.3333... = 1/3. The exact same method shows 0.999... = 1/1 = 1, so if you think about it, if 0.999... ≠ 1 then 0.333... ≠ 1/3 and we just can't represent thirds, or fifths, etc... in our decimal system. Using the geometric series you can represent this as an infinite sum, and infinite series (infinite sums) are just different to finite sums.
    Why is the 0.999… problem so controversial? Because it brings our intuitions into conflict. We would like the sum of an infinite series to play nicely with arithmetic manipulations like the ones we carried out on the previous pages, and this seems to demand that the sum equal 1. On the other hand, we would like each number to be represented by a unique string of decimal digits, which conflicts with the claim that the same number can be called either 1 or 0.999… as we like. We can’t hold on to both desires at once; one must be discarded.
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/how_not_to_be_wrong/2014/06/06/does_0_999_1_and_are_divergent_series_the_invention_of_the_devil.html
    ∞ = -∞

    That's an interesting one:
    Euler concluded that the sum -1 is larger than infinity. Some of Euler's contemporaries argued that negative numbers larger than infinity are different from those less than 0. Euler objected and argued that infinity separates positive and negative numbers just as 0 does.
    http://math.unice.fr/~coppo/EulerSeries%20%28copy%29.pdf
    This one is more work of the devil than 0.999... = 1.
    KahBoom wrote: »
    Ya that reminds me of another controversial opinion:
    - Continued economic growth is impossible and unsustainable environmentally, due to the second law of thermodynamics, and todays economic/monetary system inherently depends on permanent economic growth - it is physically impossible for it to last.

    Pretty sickening, sounds like mathematics as propaganda.
    Turtwig wrote: »
    Calories and counting them are a terrible idea.

    I thought so too, until I understood them and seen it in action, now after realizing I was wrong I'm fitter than I've ever been cool.png


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭KahBoom


    Pretty sickening, sounds like mathematics as propaganda.
    I don't understand what you mean?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    KahBoom wrote: »
    I don't understand what you mean?

    It's like saying the laws of geometry do not allow for indefinitely increasing population growth, because a calculation of the surface area of the earth compared to the averaged male-to-female shoe size of an adult human shows that there will come a time when the humans will overflow the earth. Thus our current laissez-faire attitude of allowing people to give birth on their own terms is unsustainable and cannot last, (ergo randomized genetic lottery?). Throw in some graphs of the history of population growth levels, and I wonder if I could convince anyone that we need to start taking away peoples rights :rolleyes: Just irresponsible trash tbh, but the geometry example shows how farcical the argument is whereas an unfamiliar concept like the second law of thermodynamics has the power to trick people.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,331 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    That's an interesting one:
    unfortunately, i can't remember most of the justifications behind it, and never worked out a proof (obviously!).
    i do remember thinking that it was curious that a line which is 90 degrees off the horizontal can be treated as having a slope of infinity or negative infinity, depending on which side you approach from; i think that's what got me started wondering about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭KahBoom


    It's like saying the laws of geometry do not allow for indefinitely increasing population growth, because a calculation of the surface area of the earth compared to the averaged male-to-female shoe size of an adult human shows that there will come a time when the humans will overflow the earth. Thus our current laissez-faire attitude of allowing people to give birth on their own terms is unsustainable and cannot last, (ergo randomized genetic lottery?). Throw in some graphs of the history of population growth levels, and I wonder if I could convince anyone that we need to start taking away peoples rights :rolleyes: Just irresponsible trash tbh, but the geometry example shows how farcical the argument is whereas an unfamiliar concept like the second law of thermodynamics has the power to trick people.
    You haven't actually read the article then. Can you provide a summary of the article to show that you've read it? (or even just understand it's basic argument?) There's nothing complicated about the second law of thermodynamics, it's all explained very lucidly in the article.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    KahBoom wrote: »
    You haven't actually read the article then. Can you provide a summary of the article to show that you've read it? (or even just understand it's basic argument?)

    How could I provide a geometry example paralleling the thermodynamic example in the article unless I'd read it? Why did I specifically mention "surface area" for example, if you understood the article you'd see the crux of it is the surface area thermodynamic calculation, which is why I chose the geometry example to show what a farce it is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    KahBoom wrote: »
    There's nothing complicated about the second law of thermodynamics, it's all explained very lucidly in the article.

    If you want to play character assassination games then I'll just point out he doesn't mention the second law in the article - it's not even about the second law it's about consequences of the first law of thermodynamics, radiation:
    Physicist: [sigh of relief: not a space cadet] Alright, the Earth has only one mechanism for releasing heat to space, and that’s via (infrared) radiation. We understand the phenomenon perfectly well, and can predict the surface temperature of the planet as a function of how much energy the human race produces. The upshot is that at a 2.3% growth rate (conveniently chosen to represent a 10× increase every century), we would reach boiling temperature in about 400 years. [Pained expression from economist.] And this statement is independent of technology. Even if we don’t have a name for the energy source yet, as long as it obeys thermodynamics, we cook ourselves with perpetual energy increase. - See more at: http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2012/04/economist-meets-physicist/#sthash.HA4yTlXR.dpuf

    Apparently it's a bit more complicated than you thought...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭KahBoom


    How could I provide a geometry example paralleling the thermodynamic example in the article unless I'd read it? Why did I specifically mention "surface area" for example, if you understood the article you'd see the crux of it is the surface area thermodynamic calculation, which is why I chose the geometry example to show what a farce it is.
    Your analogy doesn't fit at all - nobody says the human population is linearly going to increase forever.

    The way economies and the monetary system are run today however, does require GDP growth to keep on advancing, forever - to prevent collapse of the economic system.

    The article links that GDP growth, to growing energy use, and then links that growing energy use to the second law of thermodynamics (that you can't 100% efficiently convert energy, some of it will leak out as heat) - so if we keep an economic/monetary system that requires economic growth forever (there are other 'steady-state' economic systems that don't require this), it's going to run up against the environmental limits of what Earth can sustain.

    At what point do you have a disagreement here:
    1: Current economic system requires GDP growth to avoid collapse?
    2: Economic growth requires at least some increase in energy use (even if you make power generation ultra-efficient)?
    3: Increased power generation leaks (by the second law of thermodynamics) some amount of heat into the atmosphere?
    4: Eventually, if this would be allowed to continue forever, this heat would run up against Earth's environmental constraints?

    Remember: I'm not saying it's possible for the above to happen, I'm saying it's absurd that this is what the current economic/monetary system requires, in order to keep on functioning - and that it's collapse is inevitable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭KahBoom


    It is the second law of thermodynamics, it's based on this statement about energy efficiency, and how perfect energy conversion isn't possible:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics#Carnot_theorem


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Barr125 wrote: »
    I'll get the ball rolling with one that I've talked about a few times and nearly always gotten a negative response to:
    the implementation of governmental population control in the next 50 years.
    Population control is happening all the time. It is necessary for obvious reasons and made worse by the fact the human animal is an excellent survivor, we actually need very little resources to survive.

    The only population control that's actually been shown to work is educating women and women having opportunities outside of child rearing at home. We've seen population growth start to slow down in highly developed countries with women in the workforce. Parts of India are showing that educating women and promoting small families with working parents has almost instantly (by a generation or two) stopped soaring populations.

    The problem with expecting nature to take it's course with humans is that we're adept at overcoming natures checks and balances. When nature brings a drought we build a dam, When nature sends a plague we invent insecticide, when nature can't provide enough we invent industrial farming. It seems like a battle nature is slowly losing but that's not really the case, nature will adapt to whatever kind of world we end up creating. It's just we probably won't like the world we end up creating but I've no doubt humans will be able to survive in it.



    My controversial opinion is that the breeding of pedigree dogs is a horrible attack on the K9 species. I think in years to come we'll wise up to the cruelty of it and look back on todays pedigree dog market as one of the most disgusting markets we've had since slavery.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    KahBoom wrote: »
    Your analogy doesn't fit at all - nobody says the human population is linearly going to increase forever.

    First off, the article doesn't say the economy is going to linearly increase either, it says it'll grow exponentially (the graph is logarithmic which is why it looks like a straight line, as was clearly explained in the article):
    Total U.S. Energy consumption in all forms since 1650. The vertical scale is logarithmic, so that an exponential curve resulting from a constant growth rate appears as a straight line. The red line corresponds to an annual growth rate of 2.9%. Source: EIA.

    ...

    Physicist: Before we tackle that, we’re too close to an astounding point for me to leave it unspoken. At that 2.3% growth rate, we would be using energy at a rate corresponding to the total solar input striking Earth in a little over 400 years. - See more at: http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2012/04/economist-meets-physicist/#sthash.P1EGwSlw.dpuf
    Second, all you have to assume about population growth is what this guy assumes about economic growth in the article - that it grows at a 2.3% growth rate. Eventually our feet will fill the earth :rolleyes: That's very simple, the difference between his and my argument is that he uses the possible heat energy on the surface while I use the possible space, that's the only difference. Pretending his physics is completely rock solid, both of our arguments are technically true (in case that isn't clear). The point I'm making is that one argument is completely stupid, ridiculous and crazy, the other (which preys on peoples political biases to use politically motivated arguments) is taken seriously because the big words can be used to fuel political agendas even though it's the exact same logic. Pretty sickening...
    KahBoom wrote: »
    The way economies and the monetary system are run today however, does require GDP growth to keep on advancing, forever - to prevent collapse of the economic system.

    Yes, and our current policies on birth control allow even just the clown population to increase at 2.3% per generation (a weak estimate, considering the amount of clown colleges now compared to the past) so our current policies say the surface area of the earth will eventually overflow with clowns feet, no matter what size clown shoe they wear. Thus we should take economic measures to prevent the collapse of the economic (and political and social!!!) system :rolleyes:
    KahBoom wrote: »
    Remember: I'm not saying it's possible for the above to happen, I'm saying it's absurd that this is what the current economic/monetary system requires, in order to keep on functioning - and that it's collapse is inevitable.

    The coming collapse looks a little nicer to me while wearing clown shoes... Examine your logic: if you apply it to a discussion of population control then the version of this guys article in that scenario is my argument. That's how ridiculous it is to use this article as a justification for talking about changing the current economic/monetary system. The only difference is the big words trick you into thinking it's a credible argument. Transport the logic (without the new words) into familiar territory and it's a joke. There's no need to tarnish the image of science by getting it tied up in this nonsense, tarnish the reputation of mathematics instead, enough people already hate that so it technically should be easier to use math (if the argument stripped down to it's essentials wasn't so ridiculous in the first place, in other words - propaganda).


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