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getting into heaven?

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  • 08-05-2008 12:40pm
    #1
    doubledecker
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭


    Hi,
    I'm from a non religious background back in Australia, and had an interesting conversation with my Irish father in-law the other day......
    He is a devout catholic. We were talking about heaven when he commented that he wasn't sure if he was going to heaven or not. This surprised me, as I thought if you had faith, (he has), and had confessed all sins, then it was a given that you would head off to heaven????
    He seemed to think that many believers feel this way, but I wasn't too sure.... Is he just being modest about his 'goodness' or about his god???
    thanks for any help......
    :confused:


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    #2
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    doubledecker wrote: »
    Hi,
    I'm from a non religious background back in Australia, and had an interesting conversation with my Irish father in-law the other day......
    He is a devout catholic. We were talking about heaven when he commented that he wasn't sure if he was going to heaven or not. This surprised me, as I thought if you had faith, (he has), and had confessed all sins, then it was a given that you would head off to heaven????
    He seemed to think that many believers feel this way, but I wasn't too sure.... Is he just being modest about his 'goodness' or about his god???
    thanks for any help......
    :confused:
    Hello DD, welcome to the forum! :)

    He's right not to presume to be saved. As scripture says we must persevere to the end and run the race to the finish.

    Scripture warns us always to be ready for death and for the 2nd coming of Christ. Salvation depends on the existence or not of grace in ones soul at the point of death so to die in mortal sin means eternal damnation. And nobody knows when the Lord will call them to judgment...

    Personally I think that if someone loves God, God in His mercy wouldn't allow someone to die without confessing their sins and receiving forgiveness. Bottom line though is not to take any chances with your salvation. Be always ready to die a holy death.

    God bless,
    Noel.


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    #3
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Your father-in-law would accurately reflect the beliefs of many Catholics, and indeed he is in accordance with official Roman Catholic doctrine.

    Most other Christians teach Assurance of Faith - that the Bible gives us confidence that, if we have faith in Christ, we can know that we are going to heaven.


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    #4
    TravelJunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 438 ✭✭TravelJunkie


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Hello DD, welcome to the forum! :)

    He's right not to presume to be saved. As scripture says we must persevere to the end and run the race to the finish.

    .

    PDN wrote: »
    Your father-in-law would accurately reflect the beliefs of many Catholics, and indeed he is in accordance with official Roman Catholic doctrine.

    .

    I knew that RC's believe that they have to do many 'good works' to be acceptable to God... but is it really the belief of RC not to 'presume to be saved' ?
    What about the miracle of the cross? Isn't that undermining God's plan a little bit? What about righteousness through Christ?

    Ok... I guess my real question is does the RC believe in the prayer of salvation? ie. repentance, acknowledgement that Christ died on the cross for us, giving our lives over to him, (putting our sins on the cross) and to believe that we are saved; afterwhich we are then free to have a relationship with God because we are acceptable to him through Christ and the blood he shed for us?

    This is quite important I think.


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    #5
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    TravelJunkie wrote: »
    I knew that RC's believe that they have to do many 'good works' to be acceptable to God... but is it really the belief of RC not to 'presume to be saved'?
    We do good works because we are commanded to do so. "Love others as I have loved you". To presume to be saved is to presume to be just in God's sight. We don't really know how God sees us. What we do know is that do die in a state of grace means salvation and to die in mortal sin means damnation. And we can't presume to die in a state of grace because we don't know the future.
    TravelJunkie wrote: »
    What about the miracle of the cross? Isn't that undermining God's plan a little bit? What about righteousness through Christ?
    Yes justification comes from Christ's cross and the grace He won for us but this grace is easily lost through grave sin.
    TravelJunkie wrote: »
    Ok... I guess my real question is does the RC believe in the prayer of salvation? ie. repentance, acknowledgement that Christ died on the cross for us, giving our lives over to him, (putting our sins on the cross) and to believe that we are saved; afterwhich we are then free to have a relationship with God because we are acceptable to him through Christ and the blood he shed for us?

    This is quite important I think.
    Yes of course I believe that all salvation comes from Christ. Without Christ there is no salvation. But we are justified insofar as we co-operate with grace. The problem is that we're weak humans and that we can easily fall away. But if anyone maintains a close relationship with Jesus, I don't think there's any need for fear but presumption is wrong IMO.


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    #6
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    kelly1 wrote: »
    We do good works because we are commanded to do so. "Love others as I have loved you". To presume to be saved is to presume to be just in God's sight.

    The technical term for being just in God's sight is justification.

    "Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses." (Acts 13:39)

    "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." (Romans 3:23,24)

    "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law." (Romans 3:28)

    "Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." (Romans 5:1)

    "Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!" (Romans 5:9)

    Sounds clear enough to me.


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    #7
    all the stars
    Registered Users Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭all the stars


    maybe your father in law has one or two secrets! :)


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