Schols Schols Schols, information and venting thread.

Raspberry Fileds · 02-11-2014 4:05pm

234 wrote: »

First, whether well-developed or not, the majority of essay-writing on the LC is learned in English which everybody does, so everybody would be largely equally advantaged or disadvantaged.

Secondly, style is separate from substance; the manner in which somebody thinks is different from the particular prose style in which they express those thoughts. If I have not been clear that those are distinct then I apologise. However, as a lawyer I am no more able to switch between writing styles that anybody else. The only essays that I have written since I was doing the LC are law essays. They involve a very particular style which works for law but it completely inappropriate for any other area. I would experience the same difficulties as an engineer if, for instance, I had to write a journalistic piece.

Also, lets move beyond this engineer v lawyer division. Exactly what courses do you think have an innate facility with writing in different styles or in a style that might be applicable to a general paper? The social sciences such as business and law would never qualify. Having been in a relationship with an English lit student their essays are of a very particular style and don't deal with questions of the nature proposed. Philosophy is actually far less "lets argue about this" than people think; it involved much more formal logic and application of complex intellectual formulae that you would imagine. History equips you to research and evaluate sources. I could go on.

While some courses write more essays, due to their particular subject matter and/or style, they aren't trained to be able to switch between different kinds of essays, etc. I would also imagine that some diversity of styles would be expected on the general paper. It's about expressing your thought process rather than verbose prose.

Thirdly, that's something you would have to ask the examiners. I don't see how spelling or grammar are relevant to critical thinking but you could be fairly penalised for poor spelling and grammar since (again) no course has a particular advantage in those areas.

I think you are being naive. You say no course has an advantage in spelling/grammar but it's beyond question that those who write essays for their course will be better practised at those. For the same reason, everyone would not be equally advantaged/disadvantaged because of the LC.

When I refer to style, it's not to literary style either. I can't speak for law, but I'm certain that the style of a philosophy essay would be appropriate for such a general paper. The particular way of addressing a question in philosophy has to be developed, therefore style and substance are linked. The point about historians being required to evaluate evidence may seem compelling, but it's merely a distraction; fundamentally, all humanties courses are required to, with the prompt and constraint of an often one-sentence question, construct a multistranded argument. The idea that an engineer would be able to perform that as well as a lawyer would without practice is wrong; if you concede that, you agree with my argument which is that engineers, etc, will be required to obtain an additional skill which other types of students won't.

I'm a philosopher and am a little confused by your description of our curriculum! Formal Logic constitutes only half of one SF module.

EuropeanSon · 02-11-2014 8:09pm

The idea that essay writing is a skill which should be required for schols is completely absurd.

CJC86 · 02-11-2014 8:30pm

EuropeanSon wrote: »

The idea that essay writing is a skill which should be required for schols is completely absurd.

The idea that being able to form a logical coherent argument not being a skill required for schols is completely absurd.

02-11-2014 10:21pm

EuropeanSon wrote: »

The idea that essay writing is a skill which should be required for schols is completely absurd.

Why? At its core, an essay is an expression of a thought(s). Why should any aspiring scholar not be able to do this? Even in science courses, if they are going to be writing articles in the future, why should they not be able to write an essay on terms where no course has an inherent advantage?

Raspberry Fileds · 02-11-2014 10:49pm

CJC86 wrote: »

The idea that being able to form a logical coherent argument not being a skill required for schols is completely absurd.

Your argument is almost incoherent.

Edit: sorry, little bit harsh! "That" should be replaced with "of".

EuropeanSon · 03-11-2014 12:39am

CJC86 wrote: »

The idea that being able to form a logical coherent argument not being a skill required for schols is completely absurd.

Many people in my field (mathematics) can form a logical and coherent argument that few others can comprehend. That doesn't somehow make it less of one than an essay.

EuropeanSon · 03-11-2014 12:41am

234 wrote: »

Why? At its core, an essay is an expression of a thought(s). Why should any aspiring scholar not be able to do this? Even in science courses, if they are going to be writing articles in the future, why should they not be able to write an essay on terms where no course has an inherent advantage?

If I write a paper, nobody cares how I write it, really, once the maths makes sense, and is new/interesting.

Nobody critiqued Crick and Watson for their lines of argument. I doubt the pair won essay competitions as undergrads.

Yours is a very pitiful and narrow understanding of academia.

03-11-2014 7:50am

EuropeanSon wrote: »

If I write a paper, nobody cares how I write it, really, once the maths makes sense, and is new/interesting.

Nobody critiqued Crick and Watson for their lines of argument. I doubt the pair won essay competitions as undergrads.

Yours is a very pitiful and narrow understanding of academia.

I would disagree and say that it is in fact your understanding that is rather narrow.

Nobody is questioning the value of pure scientific work, but I think that some of the comments thus far have rather condescendingly assumed that this is all that some people are capable of or should be capable of.

Scholars should be intellectually well-rounded and be able to engage with arguments that are beyond the confines of their course.

There also seems to have been an assumption that a general paper would represent the arts forcing the sciences to engage purely on their terms. This is wrong for two reasons. First, the nature of the questions proposed is such that no "arts" student receives the kind of instruction or training relevant to it on their course. Secondly, it is incorrect to think that scientists are unable to make persuasive arguments that fall outside the methodology of their field (whether it be maths, physics, etc). Writing an essay is a basic skill that any person in higher education almost certainly has and certainly should have. If you were called on to write an article for a newspaper explaining the impact of your research would you decline, saying that you weren't capable?

One of the most enjoyable elements of commons was the chance to have some fascinating conversations with a variety of highly intelligent individuals. I never stopped to check what course they were on before I asked their opinion. People brought a diversity of perspectives and experiences but were nonetheless more than capable of engaging with issues outside of their particular field of research. This led to a richer debate.

To me, this is what the general paper is aiming at: a neutral way of assessing the non-course specific intellectual and critical-thinking abilities of candidates.

CJC86 · 03-11-2014 8:55am

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Many people in my field (mathematics) can form a logical and coherent argument that few others can comprehend. That doesn't somehow make it less of one than an essay.

I'm a Maths scholar myself. I think that Maths students should be able to express their arguments in an essay. It would certainly be a different style to the sort of essay a Law student or Philosophy student would write, but that doesn't mean that it would be less of an essay.

Raspberry Fileds · 03-11-2014 4:54pm

Why does being intellectually well-rounded require that mathematicians develop a skill beyond their course but not require philosophers do likewise? 234 is obstinately refusing to engage with the idea that essay-writing and the accompanying thought-process develop with practice.

03-11-2014 6:59pm

Raspberry Fileds wrote: »

Why does being intellectually well-rounded require that mathematicians develop a skill beyond their course but not require philosophers do likewise? 234 is obstinately refusing to engage with the idea that essay-writing and the accompanying thought-process develop with practice.

Because what is happening is that everybody is being asked to use a skill that they all have (or should have) to engage with a question that it outside their course. Where certain students/courses have this developed this skill further it is in a specialised and course-specific manner that won't be particularly helpful.

I have experienced this; where I have been asked to compose arguments on areas outside my field. The most difficult thing has been to move away from the habits that make a good law essay/argument but hinder a more general one. My essay writing and arguing abilities were certainly well-developed by my education, but not in a manner that it easily transferable to other, more general scenarios. Each course will be encumbered with their own particular predispositions, habits, etc. There is no course that would ideally set up a candidate to answer questions of the kind suggested (the only exception that I can think if would be an experienced debater).

TheTrueGamer · 20-11-2014 10:06am

Hey, I'm a SF science student and I've been lurking around this thread for a while. Just wondering if there are any successful scholars who sat the Biology 1 and Biology 2 papers in 2013/2014 who could possible offer me any advice? November's not even over and the panic's already starting to set in

Undeadfred · 09-12-2014 7:14pm

loving the extended borrowing privileges. Will definitely be taking out the full 8 books

Undeadfred · 17-12-2014 8:32pm

For the TPs and maths crew, are there any books that have lots of Fourier series/transform questions with answers in the back for Equations of Mathematical Physics? The past papers are good practice but without the answers to confirm you're right you could be doing the same type of question the wrong way over and over again.

Tears in Rain · 18-12-2014 3:14am

Undeadfred wrote: »

For the TPs and maths crew, are there any books that have lots of Fourier series/transform questions with answers in the back for Equations of Mathematical Physics? The past papers are good practice but without the answers to confirm you're right you could be doing the same type of question the wrong way over and over again.

Have you tried any of the Schaum's series? I haven't looked at it but I'd imagine Schaum's Theory and Problems of Fourier Analysis would have what you're looking for.

Undeadfred · 19-12-2014 4:00pm

Tears in Rain wrote: »

Have you tried any of the Schaum's series? I haven't looked at it but I'd imagine Schaum's Theory and Problems of Fourier Analysis would have what you're looking for.

I had a look at it in the library yesterday. The problems didn't seem difficult enough. I took out one of the engineering books since it was the one recommended by the lecturer. The problems are still easier than what I've seen on Schols papers but it'll have to do.

Defender OF Faith · 01-01-2015 1:48am

Would you get in trouble if you miss a paper or two in schols? or since you signed up your expected to attend all>?

Bears and Vodka · 01-01-2015 1:58am

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

Would you get in trouble if you miss a paper or two in schols? or since you signed up your expected to attend all>?

No, nobody is going to mind. You will be obviously forfeiting on your Schols though.

partyatmygaff · 04-01-2015 11:48pm

Best of luck to everyone tomorrow.

CJC86 · 05-01-2015 2:49pm

Everyone who has an exam on Wednesday should make sure that they're aiming to get in early. Apparently there are going to be protests slowing all transport everywhere. Hopefully the wasters protesting won't be up in time to stop people who have jobs or places to be.

Tears in Rain · 05-01-2015 5:47pm

CJC86 wrote: »

Everyone who has an exam on Wednesday should make sure that they're aiming to get in early. Apparently there are going to be protests slowing all transport everywhere. Hopefully the wasters protesting won't be up in time to stop people who have jobs or places to be.

I'm interested as to why you consider people exercising their legitimate and democratic right to protest to be wasters?

galwayjohn89 · 05-01-2015 5:57pm

Tears in Rain wrote: »

I'm interested as to why you consider people exercising their legitimate and democratic right to protest to be wasters?

You have a right to protest, not to cause inconvenience to others who have stuff to do. Like the big water protests had an area set aside for them to protest and diversions were in place. Instead they shut down OConnel bridge and generally so nothing but make a fool of themselves

CJC86 · 05-01-2015 7:20pm

Tears in Rain wrote: »

I'm interested as to why you consider people exercising their legitimate and democratic right to protest to be wasters?

As Vuzuggu said, of course they have a right to protest, but I also have a right to disagree with what they are protesting and think they are wasters for doing so. Also, shutting down the country's transport infrastructure is not a legitimate form of protest, and many could be arrested for doing so.

Importantly, to stay on topic for the thread, it is completely inconsiderate of their compatriots, and could cause many people to miss exams that day. I just wanted to wish everyone the best of luck, and make sure they know that they could be inconvenienced on Wednesday. I also vented my frustrations because I completely disagree with these people, and am completely free to do so.

EuropeanSon · 05-01-2015 9:47pm

Tears in Rain wrote: »

I'm interested as to why you consider people exercising their legitimate and democratic right to protest to be wasters?

There's no rule saying wasters can't exercise legitimate and democratic rights.

Pandora13 · 06-01-2015 6:52pm

CJC86 wrote: »

Everyone who has an exam on Wednesday should make sure that they're aiming to get in early. Apparently there are going to be protests slowing all transport everywhere. Hopefully the wasters protesting won't be up in time to stop people who have jobs or places to be.

Thanks a million for posting this, I have an exam tomorrow afternoon and will get the early train up just in case. It would be awful to miss a Schols exam just because of protests, I agree people have the right to protest but for goodness sake do it in a civilized fashion which does not involve disrupting all of public transport in Dublin for the day!

CJC86 · 06-01-2015 6:59pm

Pandora13 wrote: »

Thanks a million for posting this, I have an exam tomorrow afternoon and will get the early train up just in case. It would be awful to miss a Schols exam just because of protests, I agree people have the right to protest but for goodness sake do it in a civilized fashion which does not involve disrupting all of public transport in Dublin for the day!

To be honest, I haven't heard anything beyond a rumour over the weekend, so hopefully I'm completely wrong.

Pandora13 · 09-01-2015 9:08pm

Congratulations to everyone who finished Schols today! It's finally over! XD

Undeadfred · 10-01-2015 11:14am

Saw no chance of burnout, and I started studying in August! Dunno why everyone warns of burnout, it just intimidates you and puts you off.

stealinhorses · 10-01-2015 3:57pm

depends what you're studying i guess.

10-01-2015 9:31pm

Portomarino · 11-01-2015 1:33am

Going back to normal study will feel strange
Thought I did well in the exams (no brainfreeze/panic moments) but with Schols you're never certain

sleepyheadh · 12-04-2015 2:48pm

Cant make it up to Dublin for Trinity Monday.. Don't think that I will get schols anyway. Is there an way of getting results without attending?

Anita Blow · 12-04-2015 5:18pm

They're posted online on the morning but there's usually a bit of a delay. You'd likely hear from friends there before you see it online

sleepyheadh · 12-04-2015 5:19pm

Anita Blow wrote:

They're posted online on the morning but there's usually a bit of a delay. You'd likely hear from friends there before you see it online

Cheers

Tweej · 12-04-2015 7:25pm

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Cant make it up to Dublin for Trinity Monday.. Don't think that I will get schols anyway. Is there an way of getting results without attending?

If you get it, it's totally worth making your way to Dublin, even if it involves Driving for 4 hours.

sleepyheadh · 12-04-2015 7:37pm

Tweej wrote: »

If you get it, it's totally worth making your way to Dublin, even if it involves Driving for 4 hours.

Thats a big If haha

Undeadfred · 12-04-2015 11:06pm

This is it...

YoursSincerely · 13-04-2015 4:28pm

Does anyone know how to get the break down of your individual paper results?

13-04-2015 4:32pm

YoursSincerely wrote: »

Does anyone know how to get the break down of your individual paper results?

Email your department/course head and ask.

Undeadfred · 16-04-2015 1:55pm

Is there some way I could requrest accommodation in Goldsmith next year? It would be so much better than going to halls...

16-04-2015 2:08pm

Undeadfred wrote: »

Is there some way I could requrest accommodation in Goldsmith next year? It would be so much better than going to halls...

You can try, but the answer will be no.

Undeadfred · 16-04-2015 2:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You can try, but the answer will be no.

Aww shucks

Pandora13 · 16-04-2015 3:08pm

Definitely do not try, I already attempted that and the accommodation office was pretty angry (I put down 'on campus' as my first preference before the email clarifying Halls was sent out...:/). Will probably get thrown into Cunningham for that!

Undeadfred · 16-04-2015 3:11pm

Pandora13 wrote: »

Definitely do not try, I already attempted that and the accommodation office was pretty angry (I put down 'on campus' as my first preference before the email clarifying Halls was sent out...:/). Will probably get thrown into Cunningham for that!

****, are you serious? I thought I'd try my luck and I put down Goldsmith in my application and sent it off.

Is there anyway I can change it before they look at it?

Pandora13 · 16-04-2015 3:23pm

I was the same, thought I might as well give it a shot but it totally backfired!

Sugar, there isn't actually any way to change the application once it is submitted, I'm sure you will be grand though! I emailed the accommodation office once I realised my mistake, but there is probably no need. They will be dealing with all schol applications over the next ten days or so, so they will probably just ignore your Goldsmith preference and put you in Halls.

16-04-2015 6:16pm

Don't worry about it, as soon as they see you're a first year schol they'll automatically put you in Halls. They won't vindictively give you a bad room because you put campus on your form either.

Undeadfred · 19-04-2015 6:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't worry about it, as soon as they see you're a first year schol they'll automatically put you in Halls. They won't vindictively give you a bad room because you put campus on your form either.

Thank you

pourquoi · 09-08-2015 11:11pm

I realise that this post makes me look like a bit of an "eager beaver"/tw*t, but thanks to the Interweb's anonymity, I can assuage my feelings of cringe.

I want to sit schols for Medicine next January and am wondering should I start studying the SF Med curriculum before we start back? I'm not suggesting I burn the midnight oil for the next two months, but does anyone think it'd be beneficial to me if I read over some of the more dense subjects like anatomy and biochem?

In other words: what did other med schols do to prepare for the schol exams? Did you try to get ahead of the game to give you more time to study for schols in the lead-up to Christmas exams?

Thanks!

InkyOne · 15-08-2015 8:51pm

pourquoi wrote: »

I realise that this post makes me look like a bit of an "eager beaver"/tw*t, but thanks to the Interweb's anonymity, I can assuage my feelings of cringe.

I want to sit schols for Medicine next January and am wondering should I start studying the SF Med curriculum before we start back? I'm not suggesting I burn the midnight oil for the next two months, but does anyone think it'd be beneficial to me if I read over some of the more dense subjects like anatomy and biochem?

In other words: what did other med schols do to prepare for the schol exams? Did you try to get ahead of the game to give you more time to study for schols in the lead-up to Christmas exams?

Thanks!

Nope! Don't bother, seriously it's not going to do anything for you. Enjoy your last few weeks of freedom before the schols topic is released! Then study your arse off for the next 3/4 months. But try to enjoy your last few weeks of summer while you can! You'll be doing enough study in the next few months, no need to start early. I also actually don't know of any med scholars (in my year anyway) that failed the christmas exams of 2nd year, if that's comforting.

Source: Med scholar

esme95 · 18-03-2020 11:39am

Was wondering if mature students can sit schols?

Schols Schols Schols, information and venting thread.

Comments