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Stopped by garda last night.

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  • 21-06-2013 9:27pm
    #1
    jamesr123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 430 ✭✭


    I was stopped last night, just seemed to be a random stop/search but during the search they seemed to be copying my details name, address and DOB to his little notebook. Why is he copying down my personal information? I asked but he refused to answer me? I'm a bit pissed off at his response, Surely i'm entitled to know what he's doing with my details?


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    #2
    the world wonders
    Registered Users Posts: 489 ✭✭the world wonders


    http://www.iccl.ie/know-your-rights-criminal-justice-and-garda-powers.html
    If a Garda believes that you have committed an offence under the Public Order Act, he or she can ask for your name and address.
    If you refuse to give your name and address or give one that the Garda thinks is false or misleading, the Garda can arrest you without a warrant.
    If a Garda has a reasonable suspicion that you have committed an offence, he or she has various powers that allow him or her to search you without your consent and before you have actually been arrested.
    For example if:
    • a Garda reasonably suspects that you are in possession of a controlled drug;
    • a Garda reasonably suspects that you have committed an offence under the Offences Against the State Acts;
    • a Garda reasonably suspects that you are in possession of stolen property;
    • you are in a place where other people have gathered and a Garda suspects that a breach of the peace could occur and suspects that some of the people gathered could be in possession of a knife;
    • you are in a place that has been designated a restricted area by a Superintendent under the Public Order Act and a Garda suspects that you have alcohol, a disposable container (such as a crate or a bottle) or an article that could be used to injure someone.
    These are common examples of the powers of search of the Gardaí. A Garda can also lawfully search you in other situations.

    Should a Garda tell me why I am being searched?
    The Garda should tell you why you are being searched and under what law.
    If the guard did not have grounds for a reasonable suspicion that you were committing an offense (i.e. they were just hassling you randomly) then you can make a complaint to the Garda Ombudsman about them


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    #3
    jamesr123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 430 ✭✭jamesr123


    sorry, Just to be clear I was driving the car not walking or anything like that. Made me laugh he takes my information then doesnt tell me what he's doing with MY information


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    #4
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #5
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,355 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    There is a power of arrest for dangerous (s.53) or drunken (s.49) driving but outside of those, this is the general power of arrest under the RTA....

    107.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána alleges to a person using a mechanically propelled vehicle that the member suspects that such person has committed a specified offence under this Act, the member may demand of such person his name and address and may, if such person refuses or fails to give his name and address or gives a name or address which the member has reasonable grounds for believing to be false or misleading, arrest such person without warrant.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0107.html#sec107


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    #6
    jamesr123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 430 ✭✭jamesr123


    coylemj wrote: »
    There is a power of arrest for dangerous (s.53) or drunken (s.49) driving but outside of those, this is the general power of arrest under the RTA....

    107.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána alleges to a person using a mechanically propelled vehicle that the member suspects that such person has committed a specified offence under this Act, the member may demand of such person his name and address and may, if such person refuses or fails to give his name and address or gives a name or address which the member has reasonable grounds for believing to be false or misleading, arrest such person without warrant.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0107.html#sec107

    Yes, and most often they search you under section 23 misuse of drugs act. I have most of the road traffic/public order acts revised in my head lol

    My question is why are they taking down my details? He nearly died when I asked why he was taking my personal information!!


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    #7
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,542 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    jamesr123 wrote: »
    I was stopped last night, just seemed to be a random stop/search but during the search they seemed to be copying my details name, address and DOB to his little notebook. Why is he copying down my personal information? I asked but he refused to answer me? I'm a bit pissed off at his response, Surely i'm entitled to know what he's doing with my details?

    He wants a full record of the stop, in case you get elected and become a future Minister of Justice.


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    #8
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    pertinant question would be "Do you believe an offence has been committed Garda?" If the answer is no, then surely he/sh has no need for your details? If yes, then presumably you should be cautioned in which case you are saying nothing further.


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    #9
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0024.html
    (2) Where a member of the Garda Síochána is of the opinion that an offence has been committed under a relevant provision, the member may—

    (a) demand the name and address of any person whom the member suspects, with reasonable cause, has committed, or whom the member finds committing, such an offence, and

    (b) arrest without warrant any such person who fails or refuses to give his name and address when demanded, or gives a name or address which the member has reasonable grounds for believing is false or misleading.



    A pertinant question would be "Do you believe an offence has been committed Garda?" If the answer is no, then surely he/she has no need for your details? If yes, then presumably you should be cautioned in which case you are saying nothing further.


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    #10
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    jamesr123 wrote: »
    Yes, and most often they search you under section 23 misuse of drugs act. I have most of the road traffic/public order acts revised in my head lol

    My question is why are they taking down my details? He nearly died when I asked why he was taking my personal information!!

    He did not nearly die ffs.


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    #11
    starviewadams
    Registered Users Posts: 6,116 ✭✭✭starviewadams


    I'd say he just wanted records of people he's stopped/searched for his notebook,that he'll probably never look at ever again.


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    #12
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    starviewadams wrote: »
    I'd say he just wanted records of people he's stopped/searched for his notebook,that he'll probably never look at ever again.

    What basis in law does he have for recording them? In other words, is the criminal act associated with the name provided to him/her. If so, and no arrest is made...??? Why keep the name?


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    #13
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    MadsL wrote: »
    What basis in law does he have for recording them? In other words, is the criminal act associated with the name provided to him/her. If so, and no arrest is made...??? Why keep the name?

    He has the right to ask so ergo he has the right to record. It's not like he has to use his memory. There is no point in asking you for your details if he does not write them down. Why does this bother you so.


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    #14
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Zambia wrote: »
    He has the right to ask so ergo he has the right to record. It's not like he has to use his memory. There is no point in asking you for your details if he does not write them down. Why does this bother you so.

    Read the law. He/he only has the right to ask based on reasonable suspicion.


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    #15
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    MadsL wrote: »
    Read the law. He/he only has the right to ask based on reasonable suspicion.

    He stopped you , your driving a car, how can he check if you have a licence or are even allowed drive if he does not know your name and address?


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    #16
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,290 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Zambia wrote: »
    He stopped you , your driving a car, how can he check if you have a licence or are even allowed drive if he does not know your name and address?
    He might ask for your driving licence? :)


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    #17
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Victor wrote: »
    He might ask for your driving licence? :)
    What with all that personal info written on it heaven for f**king bid!!!!


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    #18
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,269 ✭✭✭source


    Mountjoy Mugger wrote: »
    Ask for/Look at your licence?

    Stop defending the indefensible.

    Section 40 road traffic act 1961, have a read.


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    #19
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,219 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    MadsL wrote: »
    Read the law. He/he only has the right to ask based on reasonable suspicion.

    He can ask what he likes (as can any other human being), he can only compel an answer based on reasonable suspicion.


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    #20
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,695 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    MadsL wrote: »
    pertinant question would be "Do you believe an offence has been committed Garda?" If the answer is no, then surely he/sh has no need for your details? If yes, then presumably you should be cautioned in which case you are saying nothing further.

    Absolutely, a Garda does not have the right, save in accordance with law, to ask you for your name and address.

    If stopped by a Garda and asked for name and address you should ask the 'reasonable suspicion' that the Garda harbours, that warranted the stop. Do this before answering their questions. Also ask and get their name and garda ID number. After that, it is wise to comply with the request and give your name and address.

    It's not about getting stroppy unnecessarily with the Gardai, it's about having your rights under the constitution protected and observed. We do not live in a police state!


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    #21
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    source wrote: »
    Section 40 road traffic act 1961, have a read.
    This pretty much covers it.

    No one has a right to anonymity behind the wheel.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0040.html


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    #22
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,695 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    It's also worth quoting section 111 of the RTA 1961
    111.—Where, in exercise of any power or the performance of any duty conferred or imposed by or under this Act, any member of the Garda Síochána makes in a public place a request, requirement or demand of, or gives an instruction to, any person, such person shall not be bound to comply with the request, requirement, demand or instruction unless the member either—


    (a) is in uniform, or


    (b) produces, if requested by such person, an official identification card or such other evidence of his identity as may be prescribed.
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/print.html#sec111


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    #23
    Pappa Charlie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭Pappa Charlie


    If the op didnt have the licence then the garda had the power to demand its production and the name and address of the driver would be demanded and recorded. If the driver had a licence then the garda can record the details, he could be recording gb to later verify that the licence is legit, get a life op and move on!


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    #24
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,695 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    Pappa Charlie wrote: »
    If the op didnt have the licence then the garda had the power to demand its production and the name and address of the driver would be demanded and recorded. If the driver had a licence then the garda can record the details, he could be recording gb to later verify that the licence is legit, get a life op and move on!

    In the OP the poster says the gard copied down their details, so it's fair to assume it was from their licence.
    (5) A person who, when producing a driving licence to a member of the Garda Síochána pursuant to this section, permits the member to see and read so much of the licence as contains the name, address, signature (if any) and photograph (if any) of the person to whom the licence was granted, the date of the termination of the period for which it was granted and the licensing authority by whom it was granted shall, for the purposes of this section, be deemed to have permitted such member to read the licence.

    If a Gard started recording my details, then they must inform me of specified offence they are alleging I have committed. The OP would be well within their rights to write to the local station to where they were stopped and ask for the details of the gard who took their name and address and under what specified offence they were being taken for?

    As I said, we do not live in a police state and the Gards must operate within the same laws that the citizens are required to.


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    #25
    NoQuarter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭NoQuarter


    Zambia wrote: »
    This pretty much covers it.

    No one has a right to anonymity behind the wheel.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0040.html
    Tabnabs wrote: »
    It's also worth quoting section 111 of the RTA 1961


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/print.html#sec111

    Lads, don't quote irishstatutebook legislation from 1961, those sections read nothing like that anymore.

    You need to log on to westlaw to read the consolidated legislation now, there has been hundreds of amendments to the 61 Act.


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    #26
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    Tabnabs wrote: »
    In the OP the poster says the gard copied down their details, so it's fair to assume it was from their licence.



    If a Gard started recording my details, then they must inform me of specified offence they are alleging I have committed. The OP would be well within their rights to write to the local station to where they were stopped and ask for the details of the gard who took their name and address and under what specified offence they were being taken for?

    As I said, we do not live in a police state and the Gards must operate within the same laws that the citizens are required to.

    Not quite. As said already anyone including a Garda can ask your name and record the details if you provide it. Only if a Garda demands your details then he must inform you under what authority. It doesn't require an allegation you committed an offence, just a reasonable suspicion, e.g you fitting a description of a perp.

    ask = informal request
    demand = lawful requirement


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    #27
    jamesr123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 430 ✭✭jamesr123


    Pappa Charlie wrote: »
    If the op didnt have the licence then the garda had the power to demand its production and the name and address of the driver would be demanded and recorded. If the driver had a licence then the garda can record the details, he could be recording gb to later verify that the licence is legit, get a life op and move on!


    Get a life? :mad: I simply wanted to know why a total stranger decides to write all my details down in a notebook, when asked why he needs them details he refuses to answer me.


    Now I know anyway, thanks lads :rolleyes:


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    #28
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    To all the outraged posters talking about a vehicle stop. Could I point out that the OP nowhere mentioned being in a vehicle when this happened.


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    #29
    jamesr123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 430 ✭✭jamesr123


    MadsL wrote: »
    To all the outraged posters talking about a vehicle stop. Could I point out that the OP nowhere mentioned being in a vehicle when this happened.

    I did


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    #30
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    MadsL wrote: »
    To all the outraged posters talking about a vehicle stop. Could I point out that the OP nowhere mentioned being in a vehicle when this happened.
    jamesr123 wrote: »
    sorry, Just to be clear I was driving the car ...
    jamesr123 wrote: »
    I did
    He sure did. Reading threads is such fun and sooo helpful !:D


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    #31
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    mathepac wrote: »
    He sure did. Reading threads is such fun and sooo helpful !:D

    Fair enough. He didn't mention it in the OP which I responded to. My bad. Want my name and address?


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