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Dublin Bus strike from Sunday 04/08 [called off - service resumes 07/08]

13567…17

Comments

  • #102
    CreepingDeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,015 ✭✭✭CreepingDeath


    end of the road wrote: »
    their only a step below airline pilots, just like train drivers, both are extremely skilled jobs that any old jobsworth couldn't do

    rofl !

    Yeah, Dublin bus drivers should have their job description changed to 'land pilots' .

    Bus driving and taxi driving SHOULD be low paid jobs. They don't require years of training, just the ability to drive, no obvious medical conditions and primary school level arithmetic.

    Jobsworth is the phrase you brought up, and it definitely applies here.


  • #103
    Infini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    Lets put everything into a nice summed up little post

    This strike is the result of bad management simple as that.
    Its their decision to try and FORCE through cuts this sunday which is causing this strike to go ahead they were warned this would happen if they did so.
    These cuts come at the same time as the goverment tries to cheapen out on the subvention required to run these services. Anyone remember how they got cuts and savings in the other companies a few years back then cut the subvention by the same amount eh?
    None of the employees in the company have gotten a pay rise in over 5 years theyre already owed 10% in wages.
    They also have also had their spending eroded by inflation and the swath of wanker banker taxes introduced by 2 sellout governments.
    The abuse of the free travel scheme while another topic is also another reason why this has happened it shouldve been pulled for everyone except the over 65's.
    Theres also the simple fact that everyone is FED UP with having their pay and working conditions eroded by people who barely worked in the companies or have no idea what theyre doing.
    All trust is basically lost with management and the goverment as well which is why so many people voted for strike action (over 90%).

    Many people are complaining its an inconvenience for them and how the drivers shouldnt strikem well lets see how you feel if they came along and demanded a 20% pay cut to YOUR wages. Theyre standing up to defend their pay and condition from brainless gombeens and a sellout government.

    Also it could be bad now but wait and see what happens if it were to be prolonged at DB or worse if irish rail's employees decide to strike as well at the SAME TIME because its the same thing there as well and therye just as fed up with bad management and the goverment too. The goverment is scared now expecially that mouth vadatard because if Dublin Bus goes strikes long term and Irish Rail strike then Dublins transport would be shut down and the goverment would be afraid if it spread even further outside transport to the rest of the public sector.

    You can criticise the employees but remember theyre not striking for fun or to annoy you theyre striking because theyre fed up with their conditions being corroded by failed goverment and management and theyre acting while they have the power to do something about it.


  • #104
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Infini2 wrote: »
    You can criticise the employees but remember theyre not striking for fun or to annoy you theyre striking because theyre fed up with their conditions being corroded by failed goverment and management and theyre acting while they have the power to do something about it.

    Lets get real here though, they are being eroded from a highly generous starting point that thanks to the CT madness is well out of line with reality.

    Why does DB mgt not simply follow the Ryanair method at this point and simply refuse to recognise and deal with the unions? Clearly the union are way out of touch (not solely applicable to DB to be fair)


  • #105
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Infini2 wrote: »
    Lets put everything into a nice summed up little post

    This strike is the result of bad management simple as that.
    Its their decision to try and FORCE through cuts this sunday which is causing this strike to go ahead they were warned this would happen if they did so.
    These cuts come at the same time as the goverment tries to cheapen out on the subvention required to run these services. Anyone remember how they got cuts and savings in the other companies a few years back then cut the subvention by the same amount eh?

    The subvention argument that is often put out by management and staff is spin for the most part, as of the 2011 accounts, subsidy per vehicle was actually rising, not going down as some people would have you believe.

    Whilst subsidy has gone down by a decent chunk percentage wise over several years, which is an accepted fact, the number of buses in the fleet has also been cut by around 150 as well as well

    With the company doing approx 15% less work or so, of course the subsidy should be cut, else they're getting paid the same amount to do less work, and if PSO is to help cover the cost of unprofitable routes, if some of routes are withdrawn as was the case with network direct, then why should they continue recieving the share of the subsidy for them.

    Indirect subsidy has been increased also in recent years, with the provision of 160 new buses at the taxpayer expensive since 2012. Before this I'm led to believe the company paid for it's own vehicles such as the EV's and the VG's.

    The simple fact is, as LxFlyer says, the cost base in the company is too high and needs to come down and everyoe needs to contribute to that. The days of expecting the government to hand over money every time a CIE company is in trouble are over, since if they hand over money at every beck and call, there is no incentive for them to deal with their cost base or make the business more efficient.

    Remember taxpayers pay a large chunk of your salary whether you like it or not, and your job is to serve them first and foremost, the company should not be run to make the employees profit from it, that is not that the public sector is about, it's about serving the public first and foremost in the most efficent way possible. The average wage in Dublin bus is approx 50k, as per their accounts, that is too high and needs to come down.

    If staff can't accept that then sorry, but they really need to get a grip. Everyone needs to take a share of the cuts including all grades of staff and management, but already having heard some staff say that they should face no cuts and management should take them all, need to get real.
    None of the employees in the company have gotten a pay rise in over 5 years theyre already owed 10% in wages.

    Most people in the country haven't. In fact, most people have had a pay cut and lost many perks.
    Theres also the simple fact that everyone is FED UP with having their pay and working conditions eroded by people who barely worked in the companies or have no idea what theyre doing.

    See above.
    Many people are complaining its an inconvenience for them and how the drivers shouldnt strikem well lets see how you feel if they came along and demanded a 20% pay cut to YOUR wages. Theyre standing up to defend their pay and condition from brainless gombeens and a sellout government.

    The cost base in Dublin Bus is too high. I'm sorry you don't understand basic economics. The starting point for the changes is vastly higher than most people working in similar jobs in the private sector. All people have taken cuts and loss of perks.

    I assume you are supporter of the socialist party?
    You can criticise the employees but remember theyre not striking for fun or to annoy you theyre striking because theyre fed up with their conditions being corroded by failed goverment and management and theyre acting while they have the power to do something about it.

    But they have it vastly better than most people in this country.


  • #106
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    devnull wrote: »
    The subvention argument that is often put out by management and staff is spin for the most part, as of the 2011 accounts, subsidy per vehicle was actually rising, not going down as some people would have you believe.

    Whilst subsidy has gone down by a decent chunk percentage wise over several years, which is an accepted fact, the number of buses in the fleet has also been cut by around 150 as well as well

    With the company doing approx 15% less work or so, of course the subsidy should be cut, else they're getting paid the same amount to do less work, and if PSO is to help cover the cost of unprofitable routes, if some of routes are withdrawn as was the case with network direct, then why should they continue recieving the share of the subsidy for them.

    Indirect subsidy has been increased also in recent years, with the provision of 160 new buses at the taxpayer expensive since 2012. Before this I'm led to believe the company paid for it's own vehicles such as the EV's and the VG's.

    Now, I don't know the full details but does the 15% drop in fleet size compare directly to a 15% decrease in services?

    If not then the buses are being run more often which requires more servicing, fuel, maintenance hours, spare parts, etc.


  • #107
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,929 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    devnull wrote: »
    Indirect subsidy has been increased also in recent years, with the provision of 160 new buses at the taxpayer expensive since 2012. Before this I'm led to believe the company paid for it's own vehicles such as the EV's and the VG's.

    Actually, from reading a thread in the Bus Enthusiasts sub-forum, it seems they've now started selling off the first of the AV's as well which is ridiculous in the current climate.
    These buses (and the RV/RA/RH's before them) are apparently snapped up by the UK operators and put into regular service for years afterwards.

    As I said in that thread, whatever about the older Olympians (as they weren't low-floor accessible), there can be no excuse for selling off perfectly serviceable newer buses so the taxpayer can fund shiny new ones.

    This is a perfect example of the skewed priorities of DB (management and unions alike) and why the best thing that could happen here is privatisation and the establishment of a TfL-style setup for Dublin that oversees the lot and sets the various operators performance targets to adhere to (yes I watched that Route Masters show on BBC 2 lately :))


  • #108
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    Actually, from reading a thread in the Bus Enthusiasts sub-forum, it seems they've now started selling off the first of the AV's as well which is ridiculous in the current climate.
    These buses (and the RV/RA/RH's before them) are apparently snapped up by the UK operators and put into regular service for years afterwards.

    As I said in that thread, whatever about the older Olympians (as they weren't low-floor accessible), there can be no excuse for selling off perfectly serviceable newer buses so the taxpayer can fund shiny new ones.

    This is a perfect example of the skewed priorities of DB (management and unions alike) and why the best thing that could happen here is privatisation and the establishment of a TfL-style setup for Dublin that oversees the lot and sets the various operators performance targets to adhere to (yes I watched that Route Masters show on BBC 2 lately :))

    It needs an elected Mayor with cajones the size of Ken Livingstone's.


  • #109
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    It needs an elected Mayor with cajones the size of Ken Livingstone's.

    Knowing Irish politics, we'd likely get one as bufoonish as Boris without the intelligence.


  • #110
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,919 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    Actually, from reading a thread in the Bus Enthusiasts sub-forum, it seems they've now started selling off the first of the AV's as well which is ridiculous in the current climate.
    These buses (and the RV/RA/RH's before them) are apparently snapped up by the UK operators and put into regular service for years afterwards.

    As I said in that thread, whatever about the older Olympians (as they weren't low-floor accessible), there can be no excuse for selling off perfectly serviceable newer buses so the taxpayer can fund shiny new ones.

    This is a perfect example of the skewed priorities of DB (management and unions alike) and why the best thing that could happen here is privatisation and the establishment of a TfL-style setup for Dublin that oversees the lot and sets the various operators performance targets to adhere to (yes I watched that Route Masters show on BBC 2 lately :))

    They are 13, almost 14 years old. That is pretty much the industry norm.

    Any longer and maintenance costs go up, and we start going back to the days when the recovery units spent their entire days on the road rather than parked in the garage.


  • #111
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,929 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    lxflyer wrote: »
    They are 13, almost 14 years old. That is pretty much the industry norm.

    Any longer and maintenance costs go up, and we start going back to the days when the recovery units spent their entire days on the road rather than parked in the garage.

    And yet the UK operators seem to have no problem maintaining these buses for a lot longer than we do. Seems to make sense to them so why can't we do it?

    Also, buses in the good/bad old days would have been a lot more problematic than modern vehicles I'd have thought no? (this may be a trade-off between mechanical reliability and electrical/computerised components admittedly.. I'd say the newest models will be a disaster in later life in that regard).

    As an aside, I can't see anything too wrong with recovery units out doing the job they're there for rather than sitting in the canteen drinking tea most of the time.

    Bottom line is we're in a recession/depression, DB is a loss-making company, and like the rest of the national fleet, the days of changing buses unnecessarily are (or should be!) long gone.


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  • #112
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    And yet the UK operators seem to have no problem maintaining these buses for a lot longer than we do. Seems to make sense to them so why can't we do it?
    Better availability of cheaper parts? lower staff costs? Better work ethic?
    Also, buses in the good/bad old days would have been a lot more problematic than modern vehicles I'd have thought no? (this may be a trade-off between mechanical reliability and electrical/computerised components admittedly.. I'd say the newest models will be a disaster in later life in that regard).
    The technology and mechanical side has got so much better that the current fleet should not encounter serious issues as early as buses that entered service 15years ago are experiencing today
    As an aside, I can't see anything too wrong with recovery units out doing the job they're there for rather than sitting in the canteen drinking tea most of the time.

    Bottom line is we're in a recession/depression, DB is a loss-making company, and like the rest of the national fleet, the days of changing buses unnecessarily are (or should be!) long gone.
    A bus breaking down discommodes passengers who will be late and annoyed as well as cold and wet in a lot of cases. they will think hard about alternative transport which means loss of revenue. those mechanics that drive the recovery vehicles should be working in the garage if not out on the road! what kind of ass-backward company would keep a fully qualified mechanic "on call" every shift?


  • #113
    KD345
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭KD345


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    These buses (and the RV/RA/RH's before them) are apparently snapped up by the UK operators and put into regular service for years afterwards.

    As I said in that thread, whatever about the older Olympians (as they weren't low-floor accessible), there can be no excuse for selling off perfectly serviceable newer buses so the taxpayer can fund shiny new ones.

    This is a perfect example of the skewed priorities of DB (management and unions alike) and why the best thing that could happen here is privatisation and the establishment of a TfL-style setup for Dublin that oversees the lot and sets the various operators performance targets to adhere to (yes I watched that Route Masters show on BBC 2 lately :))

    The RVs weren't as in demand as you might think towards the end of their days. The low floor restrictions really limited their appeal to operators, with most of them ending up on school routes or private hire work with small operators.

    In a city like Dublin, the max age of a bus is usually around 13 years, so withdrawing the very early AVs is not a shock. When you put the question of replacing a good bus with a new one, on the surface it does seem ridiculous, but when you factor in increased maintenance costs, reliability and parts, I feel it's a sensible move. I don't think anyone wants to see a return to buses regularly breaking down. You certainly won't see a 13 year old Dublin Bus being sold to a major operator in a city similar to Dublin for use in regular everyday passenger service.

    Also, it's very important to highlight in this specific thread, that it's not Dublin Bus who are funding the purchase of the new vehicles, it's the National Transport Authority. They own the buses not Dublin Bus. Of course, you can argue that it's all the same, as it's tax payers money, but in the context of this thread, its probably important not to blur the line on who is making the decisions on purchasing.


  • #114
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    As an aside, I can't see anything too wrong with recovery units out doing the job they're there for rather than sitting in the canteen drinking tea most of the time.

    I agree with most of what you're saying but this is daft!

    If the recovery teams are out on the streets, it's because a bus load of passengers have been left stranded by a broken down bus. All the people further down the route waiting on that bus are also up the creek. All the people waiting on routes that that bus was scheduled to operate late may also be impacted.

    Recovery teams are like first aid kits - you have them but hope not to have to use them.


  • #115
    Infini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    devnull wrote: »
    The cost base in Dublin Bus is too high. I'm sorry you don't understand basic economics. The starting point for the changes is vastly higher than most people working in similar jobs in the private sector. All people have taken cuts and loss of perks.

    Try telling that to drivers trying to provide for 2 kids and a morgage and pay their bills with little to nothing left over. Seriously you'd think everyone is rich in there or something. Therye not and unless your young, single and living at home most of them are basically at their limit with taxes and everything else. Some say that they get €50,000 per year but you should check because usually these quotes are BEFORE taxes are taken into account and usually after thats all taken into account its alot lower.
    devnull wrote: »
    I assume you are supporter of the socialist party?

    Support no party these days only independents the rest are just wasters that sell the country down the river.
    devnull wrote: »
    But they have it vastly better than most people in this country.

    Again dont be so sure of that alot of people assume its better than the rest of the country but its not.


  • #116
    SandyfordGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 450 ✭✭SandyfordGuy


    the average wage here is well under 50 grand before tax so they have it way better


  • #117
    dfx-
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,693 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    lxflyer wrote: »
    They are 13, almost 14 years old. That is pretty much the industry norm.

    Any longer and maintenance costs go up, and we start going back to the days when the recovery units spent their entire days on the road rather than parked in the garage.

    They're being sold based on their reg plate rather than their condition. And a quarter or so are being kept on which are the same age and who have had a major makeover with new LED displays.

    Most of the first AVs in Donnybrook, AV75-92 are sticking around. A fair proportion of Harristown AV140-AV180s - all 00 reg AVs are sticking around.


  • #118
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    And yet the UK operators seem to have no problem maintaining these buses for a lot longer than we do. Seems to make sense to them so why can't we do it?

    Also, buses in the good/bad old days would have been a lot more problematic than modern vehicles I'd have thought no? (this may be a trade-off between mechanical reliability and electrical/computerised components admittedly.. I'd say the newest models will be a disaster in later life in that regard).

    As an aside, I can't see anything too wrong with recovery units out doing the job they're there for rather than sitting in the canteen drinking tea most of the time.

    Bottom line is we're in a recession/depression, DB is a loss-making company, and like the rest of the national fleet, the days of changing buses unnecessarily are (or should be!) long gone.

    Depends what they are going to be used for, they may be suitable for different types of work but not out for 20 hours a day.

    The NTA bought the new buses not DB.

    Mechanics work on maintaining buses, unless they are called out to change/recover a bus in service no one sitting around drinking tea waiting for a bus to break down.


  • #119
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    SandyfordGuy wrote: »
    the average wage here is well under 50 grand before tax so they have it way better

    Wages in DB are well below 50 grand as well, it would be about 38,500 including shift allowance.
    those who work Sundays as well would be
    which is below the average industrial wage for Ireland.


  • #120
    SandyfordGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 450 ✭✭SandyfordGuy


    Read the accounts


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  • #121
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    It is hard to understand how a bus service which is not only a monopoly, but also the main form of public transport, can make a loss.


  • #122
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    SandyfordGuy wrote: »
    Read the accounts

    I don't need to, if you are counting total wage costs divided by total number of employees that is as useful as a chocolate teapot.


  • #123
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,140 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    Why does DB mgt not simply follow the Ryanair method at this point and simply refuse to recognise and deal with the unions?
    because their a state run company who aren't entitled and rightly so not to deal with the unions, infact it should be illegal for any company not to recognise unions, and i wouldn't want to work for anyone who operates like Ryanair thanks, would rather no job

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • #124
    SandyfordGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 450 ✭✭SandyfordGuy


    cdebru wrote: »
    I don't need to, if you are counting total wage costs divided by total number of employees that is as useful as a chocolate teapot.

    that is what average wage is

    sorry h you don't understand basic economic'

    it is based on all the factually proven info we have

    but I forgot a porter on boards should be believed more

    Anything that does not quit your agenda you dismiss

    head buried in sand


  • #125
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,929 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    end of the road wrote: »
    because their a state run company who aren't entitled and rightly so not to deal with the unions, infact it should be illegal for any company not to recognise unions, and i wouldn't want to work for anyone who operates like Ryanair thanks, would rather no job

    You clearly haven't worked much in the private sector then as any company I've worked for has never recognized unions - they don't prohibit you joining one, but they don't have to deal with them either.


  • #126
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    cdebru wrote: »
    cough " free travel scheme" cough

    You keep saying this, yet you give no evidence to substantiate it nor to suggest where the transport companies will get the money to replace it. Either put up or shut up.


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  • #127
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    SandyfordGuy wrote: »
    that is what average wage is

    sorry h you don't understand basic economic'

    it is based on all the factually proven info we have

    but I forgot a porter on boards should be believed more

    Anything that does not quit your agenda you dismiss

    head buried in sand


    I actually understand economics and statistics so I know that unless you know the standard deviation an average is an unreliable statistic.

    so have you calculated the standard deviation for this average?

    So let me tell you what I do know, a bus driver in Dublin bus on the top scale earns about 720 euro a week, if they work a Sunday in that week they earn about 820 euro that week. That includes their shift allowance.

    Not all drivers work Sundays, those that do work 2 out of 5 Sundays so those that don't work any Sundays earn about 37,500 euro a year those that work Sundays would earn about 2000 euro a year more roughly. Either way both are below the average industrial wage for Ireland in 2013.


  • #128
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    So nearly 40k a year to drive a bus 5 days a week
    That doesnt take into account "personal days" and uncertified sick days
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #129
    hytrogen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 952 ✭✭✭hytrogen


    markpb wrote: »
    ...
    If the recovery teams are out on the streets, it's because a bus load of passengers have been left stranded by a broken down bus. All the people further down the route waiting on that bus are also up the creek. All the people waiting on routes that that bus was scheduled to operate late may also be impacted.
    sure there's always another one coming down the road, oh wait that's in other cities! :P


  • #130
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Gatling wrote: »
    So nearly 40k a year to drive a bus 5 days a week
    That doesnt take into account "personal days" and uncertified sick days


    whats a personal day ?

    7 uncertified sick days a year but they don't increase the amount of pay.


  • #131
    carpejugulum
    Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭carpejugulum


    cdebru wrote: »
    whats a personal day ?

    7 uncertified sick days a year but they don't increase the amount of pay.
    Are they subtracted from your salary?


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  • #132
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    cdebru wrote: »
    whats a personal day ?

    7 uncertified sick days a year but they don't increase the amount of pay.

    That is 4 more days than most civil servants get! they are nothing more than alco-holidays if workers cant survive on 2-3 per year


  • #133
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    So, all these 1.1 million ( which I doubt) live in Dublin Bus commuter belt? All are regular Dublin bus commuters? Dublin Bus are running services solely for their benefit? There is no fraud perpetrated on Dublin Bus? Dublin Bus polices it's services adequately? Dublin Bus will have no problem in finding an extra E20million this year on top of the E12million they have to find? Then there's next year and the year after ad infinitum.
    You think all this is going to happen and everything is going to carry on as before? Think again. Dublin Bus will be broken up and sold to the highest bidder.


  • #134
    BuffyBot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,924 ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    I've just had to do a clean up on this thread: folks, please heed the earlier on thread warnings and the forum charter (specifically the parts about attacking other users). I won't be issuing more reminders, but moderator actions.


  • #135
    Peppa Pig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭Peppa Pig


    Anyone know how strike pay works?
    If a driver earns €800 per week, how much strike pay are they likely to get and how is it administered, eg do the union send the tax to the revenue?


  • #136
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Peppa Pig wrote: »
    Anyone know how strike pay works?
    If a driver earns €800 per week, how much strike pay are they likely to get and how is it administered, eg do the union send the tax to the revenue?
    Afaik they will get no strike pay unless the dispute is over a prolonged period.


  • #137
    CreepingDeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,015 ✭✭✭CreepingDeath


    Peppa Pig wrote: »
    Anyone know how strike pay works?
    If a driver earns €800 per week, how much strike pay are they likely to get and how is it administered, eg do the union send the tax to the revenue?

    You just get a coupon book of food stamps.


  • #138
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    Rumors going around today are that if it goes ahead the gates to each depot will be shut and locked up.
    Security to be posted at each depot.

    Seriously who came up with the figure that drivers are on €800 a week.
    That is a joke if they were on that money I would have taken up a job with them back when they were hiring.

    I find it amazing people giving out about the drivers;
    They did not cause the recession,
    They did not cause the downturn in passenger numbers,
    They do a very stressful job and the sooner people actually notice that the better,
    Management expect them to bend over and give up all that was fought for back in the 1980s when wages were rubbish and still are for the job they do,
    They have to do shift work and work irregular hours and for the junior staff they don't even know what they are doing till the day before so can't plan for anything.
    Health is a big issue due to above mentioned as it's stressful and just an unhealthy job to do.
    Drivers have to deal with mentally ill, aggressive, drunk, drug users and anything else you can think off as passengers and then you get to other road users who can be very difficult to deal with also.


    I could keep going but I would be here all night.


  • #139
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    miller50841 wrote: »
    Rumors going around today are that if it goes ahead the gates to each depot will be shut and locked up.
    Security to be posted at each depot.

    Seriously who came up with the figure that drivers are on €800 a week.
    That is a joke if they were on that money I would have taken up a job with them back when they were hiring.

    I find it amazing people giving out about the drivers;
    They did not cause the recession,
    They did not cause the downturn in passenger numbers,
    They do a very stressful job and the sooner people actually notice that the better,
    Management expect them to bend over and give up all that was fought for back in the 1980s when wages were rubbish and still are for the job they do,
    They have to do shift work and work irregular hours and for the junior staff they don't even know what they are doing till the day before so can't plan for anything.
    Health is a big issue due to above mentioned as it's stressful and just an unhealthy job to do.
    Drivers have to deal with mentally ill, aggressive, drunk, drug users and anything else you can think off as passengers and then you get to other road users who can be very difficult to deal with also.


    I could keep going but I would be here all night.

    Who should cover the losses? And when are the losses considered too much?


  • #140
    SandyfordGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 450 ✭✭SandyfordGuy


    cdebru wrote: »
    I actually understand economics and statistics so I know that unless you know the standard deviation an average is an unreliable statistic.

    so have you calculateEdd the standard deviation for this average?

    So let me tell you what I do know, a bus driver in Dublin bus on the top scale earns about 720 euro a week, if they work a Sunday in that week they earn about 820 euro that week. That includes their shift allowance.

    Not all drivers work Sundays, those that do work 2 out of 5 Sundays so those that don't work any Sundays earn about 37,500 euro a year those that work Sundays would earn about 2000 euro a year more roughly. Either way both are below the average industrial wage for Ireland in 2013.

    Well it is the only verified figures in the public domain

    anyone can come on here and saw we are paid a certain sum but it cannot be verified so to attack someone for using facts then expect us to believe hearsay is nuts"

    average is not perfect but is best we have with the verified data in the public domain

    prefer to base my calculations on verified info than hearsay' but then again I don't have a vested interest
    '


  • #141
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Who should cover the losses? And when are the losses considered too much?


    Fully understand your point I believe the Driver Grade, Clerical and maintenance would agree not happily but would accept a hit if the management were playing fair and that all the recommendations were to be clearly worded and none of the usual small print and other cuts that would come in the back door as they are hidden in translation to what's on the paper.


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  • #142
    Vahevala
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Vahevala


    cdebru wrote: »
    whats a personal day ?

    7 uncertified sick days a year but they don't increase the amount of pay.

    That is just unbelievable! :eek: They just become holiday days for most.

    In my job, if I am scheduled to work on a Saturday or a Sunday, I get no extra pay. These people have it better than most so to go on strike for this makes me so mad. I have lost a lot of my perks, I get paid for overtime twice a year and just have to get on with it. In the end of the day, I realise that I am lucky to have the job.


  • #143
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    Don't start with the lucky to have a job.

    We the people are happy you have a job that you contribute and don't drain the state and also for your own sanity having a job is great even if it's not the best job in the world.

    The way I look at it is if you or others previous fought for better conditions I wouldn't feel to happy about letting them be taken away easily because what will happen when/if they get these cuts they will come for more very shortly.:rolleyes:


  • #144
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Miller 50841 are you an employee of Dublin bus
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #145
    Stevek101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Stevek101


    Has this been brought up yet? With losses running as much as €600,000 a day how long would it take for DB to go tits up? Surely they wouldn't last the week?


  • #146
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    Gatling wrote: »
    Miller 50841 are you an employee of Dublin bus


    No have a good friend in the job was letting me know the story.


  • #147
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    The other side of the grass how the non bus drivers on nearly 40k have to put up with,

    Family's with kids who can't afford holidays abroad or even down the country are reliant to get days out around the city and further afield ,

    People with medical conditions who can't afford taxis here there and every where ,

    Elderly people who have to do there shopping ,pay bills and so on ,

    Now the poor down trodden drivers should think hard before they play the victims they won't see a lot of support from the general public actually id expect a backlash
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #148
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    Gatling wrote: »
    The other side of the grass how the non bus drivers on nearly 40k have to put up with,

    Family's with kids who can't afford holidays abroad or even down the country are reliant to get days out around the city and further afield ,

    People with medical conditions who can't afford taxis here there and every where ,

    Elderly people who have to do there shopping ,pay bills and so on ,

    Now the poor down trodden drivers should think hard before they play the victims they won't see a lot of support from the general public actually id expect a backlash

    It's management that are forcing this and as I said not only driver's are going out it's clerical staff and maintenance.


  • #149
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    miller50841 wrote: »
    It's management that are forcing this and as I said not only driver's are going out it's clerical staff and maintenance.

    Of course there all going out, probably some off on holiday too
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #150
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    Gatling wrote: »
    Of course there all going out, probably some off on holiday too


    Yes but this is a 1st where all are walking off the job before some may not have crossed the picket but it's serious now.

    The spokes person for Dublin Bus Cliona Ni Fhatharta is the daughter to the head of one of the unions who was previously a driver...
    Mr. Flaherty....

    She is on the news all day putting all this on the Drivers, no mention of clerical or maintenance walking off also.

    Management need to take a hit also then as I said the rest of the staff would accept some of the changes but as this is going the way it is it's just another attack on Driver's which to a certain degree is unfair and the blame should be on both sides.


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  • #151
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    Now, I don't know the full details but does the 15% drop in fleet size compare directly to a 15% decrease in services?

    The figures were posted here a while back with verifiable sources (DB's own data), which suggested that the fleet size may have dropped by a higher percentage than the subsidy.
    If not then the buses are being run more often which requires more servicing, fuel, maintenance hours, spare parts, etc.

    True, that would increase the costs. However at the same time it'll be balance out somewhat, since not every route will require the same amount of subsidy to run, the lighter used routes, which were cut in network direct, will take a higher percentage of the overall subsidy than the heavier used routes which were not cut back by much.

    So if you cut the 15% worst performing routes, that would no doubt use much more than 15% of the overall subsidy since they are lighter used, therefore requiring more subsidy to be viable.
    Infini2 wrote: »
    Some say that they get €50,000 per year but you should check because usually these quotes are BEFORE taxes are taken into account and usually after thats all taken into account its alot lower.

    I'm sure there are many others who wish they were on €50,000 before taxes, I'm certainly not on that these days, neither are many people I know, in fact some people I know are on much lower, and to say that people are having trouble surviving on €50,000, really shows how out of touch some people are with what is going on here. If you cannot survive on €50k you seriously need to reconsider your lifestyle, although it's clear some people still think the boom times are here.
    Again dont be so sure of that alot of people assume its better than the rest of the country but its not.

    Well my experience is that it is better than a lot of the country. I have worked in the private sector all my life and I know so many people who have it far worse than you.
    cdebru wrote: »
    Wages in DB are well below 50 grand as well, it would be about 38,500 including shift allowance.
    those who work Sundays as well would be
    which is below the average industrial wage for Ireland.

    How many drivers are there in Dublin Bus out of the overall staff numbers?


This discussion has been closed.
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