The team are too emotional pre game.

subfreq · 24-09-2007 11:03am #1

I know it's refreshing in the professional era to see a team with emotion before a match but I think you can also go too far.

Before the France game O'Gara looked broken and Horan was crying as he left the changing room.

In contrast France were focused and used the Anthem to lift themselves with the crowd. Australia and South Africa are similar in this respect they are focused and use the Anthem to sharpen into game mode. In very big games you can see the emotion is there but it's the focus that is more important. the anthem is part of the game preparation, it's a mental trigger as part of the routine.

The AB's are different because they have the HAKA and can release all the nerves and aggression through that.

In the Doco about the team at the Six Nations earlier this year I was surprised with the pre game talks before the France game. It was like a club game with players and the coach shouting and trying to hype each other up. It all seemed a bit amateurish.

I think Ireland are becoming too overcome with emotion or using it in a negative way before games.

LuckyLloyd · 24-09-2007 11:38am

subfreq wrote:

I know it's refreshing in the professional era to see a team with emotion before a match but I think you can also go too far.

Before the France game O'Gara looked broken and Horan was crying as he left the changing room.

In contrast France were focused and used the Anthem to lift themselves with the crowd. Australia and South Africa are similar in this respect they are focused and use the Anthem to sharpen into game mode. In very big games you can see the emotion is there but it's the focus that is more important. the anthem is part of the game preparation, it's a mental trigger as part of the routine.

The AB's are different because they have the HAKA and can release all the nerves and aggression through that.

In the Doco about the team at the Six Nations earlier this year I was surprised with the pre game talks before the France game. It was like a club game with players and the coach shouting and trying to hype each other up. It all seemed a bit amateurish.

I think Ireland are becoming too overcome with emotion or using it in a negative way before games.

Disagree. Look at the emotion the Argies displayed before the opening game. Then look at the performance they produced thereafter. And in that Documentry, O' Sullivan's pre - match speech in the huddle really does send shivers down the spine the first time you see it.

The type of argument you are making was made in Friday's thread about the anthems: "they should be cold, clinical and professional; emotion and passion obscures focus, etc." The reality remains that this is a game that requires huge physical commitment and bravery as a basic starting point. And, as such, I find it neccesary for players to be riled up before the off to get stuck into the ferocious collisions that are part and parcel of an International test match.

It's still sport. Yes, it's a higher level. Yes, they get paid to play. But it is ultimately an extension of the game they have been playing all their lives. And basic pride, determination, desire and never say die will to win are an integral part of what gets the players through all those levels to where they are now IMO.

justsomebloke · 24-09-2007 11:42am

For me it depends. If the reason for the emotion is the game then all good However if the reason for the emotion is off field antics then you are screwed.

That said as you said O'Gara looked broken. No person should ever go into any sport broken as chances are that they are just going to lose

zAbbo · 24-09-2007 1:42pm

This and every other theory on our poor performance are absolute bollocks.

Playing / Not Playing our NA, players too emotional, ROG gambling, GM leaving, Dricco too busy advertising....all bollocks.

Players either step up or they don't

Remember the Lions 05 tour, players like Simon Easterby & Ryan Jones really stepped up, while POC, DOC, D'Arcy were poor.

After this RWC, there will be many Irish players considering their careers

Erin Go Brath · 24-09-2007 2:06pm

zabbo wrote:

This and every other theory on our poor performance are absolute bollocks.

Playing / Not Playing our NA, players too emotional, ROG gambling, GM leaving, Dricco too busy advertising....all bollocks.

Players either step up or they don't

Remember the Lions 05 tour, players like Simon Easterby & Ryan Jones really stepped up, while POC, DOC, D'Arcy were poor.

After this RWC, there will be many Irish players considering their careers

The mental state of players coming into the game has to have an impact on the way they perform. ROG as has been well documented was mentally 'all over the shop'. It showed with his erratic peformance, not up to his 6N's showing by a long shot.

Does the non-playing of our anthem, while all the other teams who get riled by their anthem have an impact? Who knows, maybe it does, maybe it doesnt. One thing for sure, Irelands call gets nobody pumped up with National pride. I'd be an advocate of both Amhrán and Irelands call being played before WC matches to finally put this thorny issue to bed. Teams accomodate the AB's, Pacific Islander teams with the haka, so why not us with dual anthems?

I do agree with you that Irelands players havent stepped up to the mark and it can't be fully explained by the above, at the same time it hasn't helped either!

zAbbo · 24-09-2007 2:21pm

My point being that it's all bollocks, people looking for a single point, however miniscule to explain our limp displays.

The team looked 'too emotional' before the England game in Croker, yet put on an amazing performance.

If that decides the winning and losing of games, we should just have a bloody pre-match emotional dance off to decide the winners, as it appears whats happening on the pitch has little impact

Erin Go Brath · 24-09-2007 2:27pm

zabbo wrote:

My point being that it's all bollocks, people looking for a single point, however miniscule to explain our limp displays.

The team looked 'too emotional' before the England game in Croker, yet put on an amazing performance.

If that decides the winning and losing of games, we should just have a bloody pre-match emotional dance off to decide the winners, as it appears whats happening on the pitch has little impact

Why don't we counter NZ's haka, with our Riverdance. With of course BOD as Michael Flatley. Once they see his dancing feet in action, that'll be worth 5 points to us already.

subfreq · 24-09-2007 2:35pm

I agree Zabbo if i was only talking about the World Cup but i was meaning a bit more in general.

Rugby is the profession of these guys and it's great to see that playing for their country means something to them. Rugby is a great sport because it still has a close connection to tradition.

I just think that it is a job for them and the margins for errors are becoming ever smaller as the pace of Rugby speeds up. I want them to prepare so that they have maximum focus when the whistle blows.

I can't believe that riding that far out on your emotions is the best way to focus before a match.

Contrast the half time camera in the dressing rooms when Wales played the Aussies this year. The welsh were old school shouting and hyping up and the Aussies were all sat in a circle taking in tactics and energy drinks/food. It was a clinical more calm approach.

It makes sense to me.

ROG in the case of the game on Friday was obviously too moved by the events of the week and to be fair to him I don't think you can blame him. The back line patterns were so flat and with no Hickey or Murphy no one else to really step in an take some weight off the tactical kicking. Too much pressure on him on the day. In retrospect you would have to say the calculated attack on him worked, as disgraceful a thing to do as it was.

JC 2K3 · 24-09-2007 3:15pm

Erin Go Brath wrote:

Teams accomodate the AB's, Pacific Islander teams with the haka, so why not us with dual anthems?

I'm not sure if it's an issue with the IRB, I think it's more to do with the IRFU not wanting to make a political statement. It's generally accepted that they play Amhrán na bhFiann in the Republic of Ireland alone.

And I'd dispute that Ireland's Call doesn't get anyone pumped up with national pride. In my experience of attending matches in Landsdowne Road, Ireland's Call is sung louder and by more people than Amhrán na bhFiann.

And on topic: people, stop with the conspiracy theories about how certain things are affecting Ireland's performance.

Agamemnon · 24-09-2007 3:47pm

What song is sung pre-match doesn't make much difference in general; some players get pumped up by it, some don't. For example, Jerry Flannery never seems to sing Ireland's Call and he's one of the few who've shown any bit of passion recently.

razorblunt · 24-09-2007 4:44pm

Your either up for a game or your not, anthems make no difference I'm on the side of anthems are for the fans to get them into the atmosphere and the game the players shoudl be focused on what they have to do during the match, if there were no anthems or haka most players would still be fired up.

I think the main point is if you can't raise your game when playing for your country there's something wrong, most of the Irish team are too comfortable in the jersey a kick up the whole was needed and they didn't get it.

marco_polo · 24-09-2007 4:48pm

I thought they weren't emotional enough. Or was that last week? So hard to keep up around here recently :rolleyes: .

Junior · 24-09-2007 10:10pm

I'm getting fair fed up of this forum, not emotional enough, they need the national anthem, too emotional, not able to do it, pack of amatuers, over trained, too professional, it's the cryotheraphy, it's the color of the jersey, I'm waiting for someone to post up a thread on how the phase of the moon has affected the team.

The team are too emotional pre game.

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