GAA Specials.

Pinehead · 27-08-2010 12:31am #1

Can anyone on this forum explain, why over the past number of years, every Waterford Gaa special has run into and back from Connolly while every Kilkenny special has had to go into and back from Heuston. It make sense to run the train into Connolly for its proximity to Croke Park. So why are Kilkenny people been put out every year?

foggy_lad · 27-08-2010 12:38am

Pinehead wrote: »

Can anyone on this forum explain, why over the past number of years, every Waterford Gaa special has run into and back from Connolly while every Kilkenny special has had to go into and back from Heuston. It make sense to run the train into Connolly for its proximity to Croke Park. So why are Kilkenny people been put out every year?

maybe irish rail management dont like kilkenny? seriously there cant be any real good reason for this except maybe there is no train driver that is qualified to drive on the section of track joining heuston to connolly? but they seem to be able to find a driver for the waterford specials!

Pinehead · 27-08-2010 12:51am

Maybe your on to something there with the anti Kilkenny slant. 2 weeks ago 2 trains came out of the same depot with drivers based in Waterford and could go into Connolly but the trains for the All Ireland can only go to Heuston putting paying customers from Kilkenny at a distinct disadvantage! Where is the bias coming from as this has been happening for years now I could never understand it? Kilkenny have gotten over the years 5 times more customers the Waterford have.

dowlingm · 27-08-2010 2:55am

I think foggy lad is probably right - it could come down to route knowledge. Alternatively, it may be that IE are trying to split the crowds to ensure people get on the right train.

It could also be that the guy who decides is from Cork and is screwing KK and I'm okay with that

Run_to_da_hills · 27-08-2010 8:13am

It could also be that drivers of the Kilkenny trains are nervous about traveling through the Phoenix Park tunnel.

Stonewolf · 27-08-2010 10:13am

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It could also be that drivers of the Kilkenny trains are nervous about traveling through the Phoenix Park tunnel.

Especially with all the disinformation IE have put out about it down through the years.

Or maybe they were concerned about hitting amateur photographers.

KC61 · 27-08-2010 10:25am

It could boil down to a couple of reasons:
1) Driver knowledge of the route
- Drivers have to be passed out to drive a particular route - they need to basically know it inside out, and there may not be any drivers available that know the route from Islandbridge Junction to Connolly

The Kilkenny specials could be operated by Portlaoise drivers who would not have the necessary route knowledge.

2) What the rostered train was doing for the rest of the day
- The sets operating the specials may be needed during the day to operate other services.

KevR · 27-08-2010 1:55pm

Galway GAA specials don't go into Connolly anymore either. It's not just Kilkenny.

Maybe Waterford fans don't mind sitting on a stopped train for ages because there is no platform available at Connolly? That's what happened the last time I got a GAA special into Connolly (2005 semi final

). It probably would have been quicker to go straight into Heuston and get the Luas.

KC61 · 27-08-2010 2:26pm

It's generally only trains from Waterford that go through to Connolly as by and large the drivers based there are the only ones (apart from Connolly and Inchicore) that have the necessary route knowledge.

Other depots would no longer need that knowledge given that there are no virtually freight trains going throught the Phoenix Park tunnel any more.

foggy_lad · 27-08-2010 2:30pm

KC61 wrote: »

It's generally only trains from Waterford that go through to Connolly as by and large the drivers based there are the only ones (apart from Connolly and Inchicore) that have the necessary route knowledge.

Other depots would no longer need that knowledge given that there are no virtually freight trains going throught the Phoenix Park tunnel any more.

could the trains not pick up a driver in inchicore to "pilot" them through the tunnel?

Cookie_Monster · 27-08-2010 2:42pm

why is such detailed route knowledge needed for such a slow speed section. Would signage and a low limit not easily be enough?

KC61 · 27-08-2010 3:29pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why is such detailed route knowledge needed for such a slow speed section. Would signage and a low limit not easily be enough?

For goodness sake - there are very detailed requirements set out by the Railway Safety Commission and Iarnrod Eireann that any driver must pass before he can drive anywhere. It is a very skilled job.

That includes a very detailed knowledge of the entire permanent way - remember they also need to know exactly where to brake in the dark.

KC61 · 27-08-2010 3:30pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

could the trains not pick up a driver in inchicore to "pilot" them through the tunnel?

Perhaps there were none available? There are not (contrary to your oft expressed view) hoards of drivers available on duty every day that are not already working.

Cookie_Monster · 27-08-2010 3:49pm

It not a very good attitude by IE whatever the reasons. They inconvenience hundreds of customers paying to get as close to Croke Park as possible by not having a single staff member available capable of driving the train through a short strip of track...

Stonewolf · 27-08-2010 4:14pm

I think we should just automate the trains, would remove the problem of driver training/strikes.

Pinehead · 27-08-2010 7:18pm

The drivers on all the Gaa specials from Kilkenny and Waterford are based in Waterford, the problem is that only the Waterford specials go through Connolly. There must be something else going on, as every Kilkenny special goes into Heuston and every Waterford special goes into Connolly. There is an obvious discriminary practice talking place here. This has been the case for 4 or 5 yrs now. Its a disgace, and i'm almost inclined to ask a local TD to write to the chairman of Irish Rail an demand an answer. If there is a straight forward explaination then fair enough but I don't think there is. The other explination is that they don't want to run specials and by keeping numbers low they can justify not running specials at some stage in the future. This practice would not be unheard of within Irish Rail Management.

Transportuser09 · 27-08-2010 9:33pm

I presume one station can only handle so many specials, the yard at Connolly isn't that big if I recall, so I suppose you have can only fit so many extra railcars in the one place, it makes sense from that point of view to split them between Connolly and Heuston, although the latter is obviously further from Croker.

Maybe your best bet is to write to them and ask.

Pinehead · 27-08-2010 9:49pm

T'user, platforms or yards has SFA to do with it. For the semi finals, one Kilkenny special had to go into Heuston. The following week there were two specials from Waterford, both went into Connolly.Connolly obviosly the capacity to take the trains. So why don't they go there. Basically on any given Sunday, there could be two trains empty in Waterford. One is for a Kilkenny crowd, one is for a Waterford crowd. Both have drivers who can go to either Connolly or Heuston, both Connoly or Heuston can take the train into the platform on arrival, store train for a few hours and make available a platform for each train to depart that evening. These train will not affect the running of any regular train. Why then will the Waterfor train always go into Connolly? I am now in the know that the area manager for the Waterford Kilkenny area is a Waterford man.....

foggy_lad · 27-08-2010 10:11pm

Pinehead wrote: »

T'user, platforms or yards has SFA to do with it. For the semi finals, one Kilkenny special had to go into Heuston. The following week there were two specials from Waterford, both went into Connolly.Connolly obviosly the capacity to take the trains. So why don't they go there. Basically on any given Sunday, there could be two trains empty in Waterford. One is for a Kilkenny crowd, one is for a Waterford crowd. Both have drivers who can go to either Connolly or Heuston, both Connoly or Heuston can take the train into the platform on arrival, store train for a few hours and make available a platform for each train to depart that evening. These train will not affect the running of any regular train. Why then will the Waterfor train always go into Connolly? I am now in the know that the area manager for the Waterford Kilkenny area is a Waterford man.....

pure favouritism and discrimination based on the auld irish parish system.

Pinehead · 27-08-2010 10:16pm

Yes there sir! In a big way. Time methinks to bring this to higher level than boards and lets hear what Barry Kenny says about the whole thing. Claptrap im sure,. I will of course post any correspondence on this board!

dowlingm · 27-08-2010 10:26pm

If I was CEO of IE GAA specials are the last thing I'd want. After all, you're expected to have an unlimited supply of stock and crew coming from all sides of the country when you could have sets getting valeted for Monday. Crew overtime almost certainly paid at Sunday rates? Then on the way back the lightweights from south Leinster gawk all over the set (although that's most Sundays on the Waterford line, given the booze ban). No thanks for it in the end.

Maybe we should not bother with Dunboyne-Connolly service on Sundays, in case it might inconvenience GAA supporters by reducing slot and platform availability?

foggy_lad · 27-08-2010 10:29pm

Pinehead wrote: »

Yes there sir! In a big way. Time methinks to bring this to higher level than boards and lets hear what Barry Kenny says about the whole thing. Claptrap im sure,. I will of course post any correspondence on this board!

from the news tonight it seems they are too busy giving pussy-cats their own smart cards to worry about such things!

KC61 · 28-08-2010 12:48am

Pinehead wrote: »

The drivers on all the Gaa specials from Kilkenny and Waterford are based in Waterford, the problem is that only the Waterford specials go through Connolly. There must be something else going on, as every Kilkenny special goes into Heuston and every Waterford special goes into Connolly. There is an obvious discriminary practice talking place here. This has been the case for 4 or 5 yrs now. Its a disgace, and i'm almost inclined to ask a local TD to write to the chairman of Irish Rail an demand an answer. If there is a straight forward explaination then fair enough but I don't think there is. The other explination is that they don't want to run specials and by keeping numbers low they can justify not running specials at some stage in the future. This practice would not be unheard of within Irish Rail Management.

No they are not.

Where specials start in Kilkenny they are usually worked empty from Portlaoise.

Really are reading far far too much into this.

KC61 · 28-08-2010 12:59am

foggy_lad wrote: »

pure favouritism and discrimination based on the auld irish parish system.

Please stop posting this nonsense. It boils down quite simply to where the trains come from, what they are needed for, and the route knowledge of the drivers.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Run_to_da_hills · 28-08-2010 1:40am

Another reason why GAA train drivers may be reluctant in taking their trains on to Connolly via the phoenix park tunnel is that they would have to come face to face with the ugly sight of decaying MK3 coaches if they take this route.

Pinehead · 28-08-2010 1:52am

KC61 , a Portlaoise driver has not taken an engine/train out of waterford or Kilkenny in living memory in all faiirness! U are talking complete and utter ****e!

foggy_lad · 28-08-2010 2:23am

It's just a friendly rivalry between waterford and kilkenny that results in waterford travellers getting treated better by Irish rail!

mickydoomsux · 28-08-2010 7:44am

dowlingm wrote: »

Crew overtime almost certainly paid at Sunday rates?

Sunday rates haven't existed for anyone but clerical staff for almost a decade now.

Where specials start in Kilkenny they are usually worked empty from Portlaoise.

100% correct.

The Manager of Irish Rail, North and East

No such division. It's Southern and Eastern.

The amount of uninformed opinion on this forum is shocking :mad:

Pinehead · 28-08-2010 10:30am

Micky, "No such division. It's Southern and Eastern", wtf are you talking about. There are only two general areas in Irish Rail(outside the DART) regarding operational issues. Northern and Eastern, covering the Waterford, Rosslare, Sligo and Belfast lines and the Southern and Western over Cork/Limerick/Tralee and Galwaya/Westport. This is common knowledge. With regard to your other point about empty trains coming from Portlaoise to work specials, again this is incorrect. Bar the point about the clerical overtime your entire post is infact wrong. Are you supposed to be one of the more informed contributors to this forum in general?

mickydoomsux · 28-08-2010 10:53am

Pinehead wrote: »

Micky, "No such division. It's Southern and Eastern", wtf are you talking about. There are only two general areas in Irish Rail(outside the DART) regarding operational issues. Northern and Eastern, covering the Waterford, Rosslare, Sligo and Belfast lines and the Southern and Western over Cork/Limerick/Tralee and Galwaya/Westport

Actually, now that i think of it you are correct there. I'm thing of the infrastructure divisions that are slightly differently divided up. My mistake.

foggy_lad · 28-08-2010 11:34am

wrote: »

Sunday rates haven't existed for anyone but clerical staff for almost a decade now.

correct

100% correct.

incorrect

No such division. It's Southern and Eastern.

The amount of uninformed opinion on this forum is shocking :mad:

incorrect

two out of three is not bad, its about the best we can ever expect from irish rail

mickydoomsux are you sure you work for irish rail in a traditional station/train/track worker type job because with your lack of knowledge you could very well have an office job.

dowlingm · 30-08-2010 1:58am

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Sunday rates haven't existed for anyone but clerical staff for almost a decade now.

I wasn't sure, thus the question mark.

Stinicker · 30-08-2010 3:48pm

A lot of the Kerry GAA specials used to terminate in Heuston too, Last year they took the Kerry trains to Connolly and the Cork ones to Heuston. (I drove up last year but thats what I heard!)

I imagine this year the Cork trains will go to Heuston and any specials from County Down will go to Connolly. Has NIR and IE ever ran specials from the North for All-Ireland finals? Or would it be a case of the bigots up North being unwilling to co-operate.?

holidaygirl · 30-08-2010 9:34pm

Only a handful of Tipperary specials went into Connolly and that is back a few years ago. In recent years all Tipperary (& Limerick afaik) have gone into Heuston.

Victor · 30-08-2010 10:33pm

Can people be a little less inflammatory please?

dowlingm · 01-09-2010 6:27pm

Let's reopen Broadstone as a GAA special only station

Parity of esteem all round.

GAA Specials.

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