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Fluoride endgame approaches....

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  • 03-08-2012 4:13am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 201 ✭✭


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2012/0731/1224321156328.html

    'Sir, – The problem with fluoride just got a whole lot bigger now that Harvard University has published a study in a peer-reviewed journal by the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences demonstrating how fluoride in water can cause permanent neurological damage to children. The Harvard study joins 26 other scientific studies in finding that fluoride is a dangerous neurotoxin.


    This supports the findings noted in the esteemed Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons in its review of water fluoridation by Prof Joel M Kauffman, PhD, which concluded: “There is evidence that fluoridation increases the incidence of cancer, hip fractures, joint problems, and that by causing fluorosis it damages both teeth and bones. Other medical problems may also occur, including neurological damage. Fluoridation of municipal water should cease. Individuals should remove fluoride from their tap water if fluoridation cannot be stopped.”


    It also supports the observations in the recent Irish risk assessment of water fluoridation titled Human Toxicity, Environmental Impact and Legal Implications of Water fluoridation which was submitted to the Government in March 2012. – Yours, etc,


    DECLAN WAUGH,
    Doherty’s Road,
    Bandon,
    Co Cork.'



    Looks as tho the fact that fluoride is a serious health hazard is finally beginning to seep out into the mainstream.

    The real question is; will the Irish government act hastily to rid this chemical from our water system; or will they just keep pretending they knew none the wiser and thus avoid scandal.

    Ill bet they will keep it going as long as possible. At least until they are out of office, so someone else can deal with the political repercussions.

    Do you think any of the cabinet drink water from their taps?

    Do you drink water from the tap.........?


«13456722

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,410 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Our tapwater often turns brown after heavy rain,if you look closly you can see tiny bits floating in it,plus the slight chemical smell sometimes and the disgusting taste and no I don't drink it.Is flouride not banned in most countries?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Stopped drinking tapwater years ago - If for anything other than the fact it tastes rank.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    I really liked the Harvard review from a few weeks ago that said the government appreciated and really want a popolus of broken hips and mentally retarded HSE users. It made their life a lot easier and really cheered them up in the morning over their bowls of lizard blood.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭FanadMan


    Why post this at this time of the morning if you think it's that important? And especially in AH - not many people gonna take it seriously in here :rolleyes:
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2012/0731/1224321156328.html

    'Sir, – The problem with fluoride just got a whole lot bigger now that Harvard University has published a study in a peer-reviewed journal by the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences demonstrating how fluoride in water can cause permanent neurological damage to children. The Harvard study joins 26 other scientific studies in finding that fluoride is a dangerous neurotoxin.


    This supports the findings noted in the esteemed Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons in its review of water fluoridation by Prof Joel M Kauffman, PhD, which concluded: “There is evidence that fluoridation increases the incidence of cancer, hip fractures, joint problems, and that by causing fluorosis it damages both teeth and bones. Other medical problems may also occur, including neurological damage. Fluoridation of municipal water should cease. Individuals should remove fluoride from their tap water if fluoridation cannot be stopped.”


    It also supports the observations in the recent Irish risk assessment of water fluoridation titled Human Toxicity, Environmental Impact and Legal Implications of Water fluoridation which was submitted to the Government in March 2012. – Yours, etc,


    DECLAN WAUGH,
    Doherty’s Road,
    Bandon,
    Co Cork.'


    Looks as tho the fact that fluoride is a serious health hazard is finally beginning to seep out into the mainstream.

    The real question is; will the Irish government act hastily to rid this chemical from our water system; or will they just keep pretending they knew none the wiser and thus avoid scandal.

    Ill bet they will keep it going as long as possible. At least until they are out of office, so someone else can deal with the political repercussions.

    Do you think any of the cabinet drink water from their taps?

    Do you drink water from the tap.........?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭face1990


    Big thread on this in the conspiracy theories forum.

    I wouldn't give babies tap water, and I've heard (and it makes sense) that baby formula shouldnt be made with flouridated water. But for a fully grown adult, I don't think it makes that much of a difference. There's bigger things to worry about.

    I drink tap water. My tap water tastes quite nice actually, and makes a lovely cup of tea.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,660 ✭✭✭policarp


    The thing that amuses me, is that the water is treated, filtered and fluoridised, then most of it is flushed down the pan. . .


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭grenache


    I grew up in the countryside. We've always had our own well, none of that nasty fluoride in our supply. Just pure natural spring water. My cousins from the city always remarked how much better it tasted than what they were used to.

    Now that I live in a city I do miss it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 836 ✭✭✭uberalles


    If you have long showers the chemical vapourises and you breath it in through your lungs. Ive heard it's v bad for your lungs as well. It's possible to get a filter to remove it from your water supply.

    It's about time its removed from our water supply. Our cat won't drink it because he knows it's poison.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    I remember as a kid at home (small town in Donegal) the water was always cloudy or discoloured or had stuff floating in it most of the time but i drank it regardless.

    Fast Forward a heap of years and its Galways Cryptospiridium outbreak. At a mates houseparty and early in the morning everyone is parched and no beer left so only choice is water.

    of the 5 of us that drank the water 4 ended up horribly sick (one was nearly hospitalised) but me i was grand just a tad hungover the next day. I thank my crappy water growing up to make me immune!

    (and yes for scientific research i drank a few more pints of water as a just to see what would happen and nothing ever did)


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,230 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Does this mean everyone with a hip replacement can sue the government?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    i lived on tap water in my teenage years, could drink a few pints of it in a day,


    never did much harm other than giving me unbelievably healthy teeth compared to the amount of junk food and fizzy drinks (and the fact i eat lemons like oranges which apparently is bad for your teeth :confused: ) i was also consuming!

    (i say unbelievable as my dentist still cannot believe the amount of sweets i eat and how good my teeth are - we put it down to the tap water i still drink and use to brush daily)


    in saying that my grand parents lived on the north side of Cork but id NEVER drink water there, they used have to leave their tap run for a few seconds to leave the water go from brown to clear it was awful, and more often than not they would get boil water notices.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 129 ✭✭bren50c


    Fluoride Endgame!!! lol ... I'm off to build a bunker and wait for the end of days so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    It's the usual conspiracy nonsense. For another perspective:

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/antifluoridation-bad-science/#more-22052


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 129 ✭✭bren50c


    Yeah op you need to chill out and enjoy life


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    hoodwinked wrote: »
    i lived on tap water in my teenage years, could drink a few pints of it in a day,


    never did much harm other than giving me unbelievably healthy teeth compared to the amount of junk food and fizzy drinks (and the fact i eat lemons like oranges which apparently is bad for your teeth :confused: ) i was also consuming!

    (i say unbelievable as my dentist still cannot believe the amount of sweets i eat and how good my teeth are - we put it down to the tap water i still drink and use to brush daily)

    Could be that your water is so toxic that the bacteria and plaque that cause decay cannot survive in your mouth.


  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Nephinbeg


    I don't know why so many people seem to have a problem with tap water. Anywhere I've ever lived, in both rural Mayo and various parts of Dublin, I've never had a problem with drinking it.

    I think people have this notion that bottled water is gonna be healthier for you.
    I wonder do the same people apply the same irrational reasoning to the health effects of plastics leached from the bottles as they do to the level of fluoride in tap water.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,814 ✭✭✭TPD


    My tap water in Buncrana was great, here in Letterkenny, not so much.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    2 stroke wrote: »
    Could be that your water is so toxic that the bacteria and plaque that cause decay cannot survive in your mouth.

    thats what im thinking :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,230 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    alastair wrote: »
    It's the usual conspiracy nonsense. For another perspective:

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/antifluoridation-bad-science/#more-22052

    You're not suggesting anti flouridation groups are talking bollocks? I'm shocked! Those people would make out that water is bad for you because 40 people drowned last year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,741 ✭✭✭withless


    kneemos wrote: »
    Our tapwater often turns brown after heavy rain,if you look closly you can see tiny bits floating in it,plus the slight chemical smell sometimes and the disgusting taste and no I don't drink it.Is flouride not banned in most countries?

    I am a fully licensed and bonded pipe manager and I think I see your problem. You are drinking from the toilet.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Hoodwinked, the state of your teeth has much more to do with your genetics than how you treat them. I'm allergic to flouride and haven't drank tap water since my teens when I had my tonsils removed needlessly due to what turned out to be the allergy. I struggle to brush my teeth because it causes my mouth to blister, so I've never been conscientious about it. Yet not only are my teeth perfect but I still have one of my milk teeth at 33. It's just dumb luck.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    iguana wrote: »
    Hoodwinked, the state of your teeth has much more to do with your genetics than how you treat them. I'm allergic to flouride and haven't drank tap water since my teens when I had my tonsils removed needlessly due to what turned out to be the allergy. I struggle to brush my teeth because it causes my mouth to blister, so I've never been conscientious about it. Yet not only are my teeth perfect but I still have one of my milk teeth at 33. It's just dumb luck.

    i still have 5 milk teeth left, im inclined to agree with the genetics factor because going by nurture i should be toothless! :D


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    I would have 4 but the dentist removed 3 of them when I was 12, as she could see the adult teeth coming up on the x-ray and was worried that the milk teeth were too healthy to fall out and could make the new teeth come out crooked. For some reason I never grew an adult tooth under the last milk tooth, but it's probably genetic as my mother never grew that particular tooth either.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    The actual article is here for anyone who wants to read it for themselves:

    http://ehp03.niehs.nih.gov/article/fetchArticle.action;jsessionid=5C98A897B69464FD44D98698EE9FC4A1?articleURI=info%3Adoi%2F10.1289%2Fehp.1104912

    Edit: there is some problem with the pdf link at the moment but try later I'm sure they will fix it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭Sea Filly


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Stopped drinking tapwater years ago - If for anything other than the fact it tastes rank.

    The occasional house I've lived in has had rank-tasting water, but most places it has been grand. Much better drinking that then wasting money and damaging the environment further by buying water.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭Sea Filly


    grenache wrote: »
    I grew up in the countryside. We've always had our own well, none of that nasty fluoride in our supply. Just pure natural spring water. My cousins from the city always remarked how much better it tasted than what they were used to.

    Now that I live in a city I do miss it.

    My grandmother's house gets its water supply from the spring well in her garden. It's incorporated into the plumbing. Best. Tea. Ever. Now, she did have problems with the fact that it's very hard water but it was worth it, I think.

    Fluoride isn't nasty though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭Junior D


    I know I'm probably going to sound harsh, but the stupidity of some people can just be mind-boggling at times. Do you really think the government, as bad as they are, would leave Fluoride in our water supplies if it was a neurotoxin and caused all those problems claimed?? Do you think the toothpaste companies would put Fluoride in toothpaste if it had all those problems claimed??

    At extremely high levels, Fluoride can be dangerous, but in Ireland its level in drinking water is only around 0.8p.p.m.. It cannot be proven that its involved in increasing the risk of bone fractures and if anything was disproven at the levels involved in drinking water, same with increasing the risk of cancer and all those other bs claims.

    OP if you're actually interested in finding out real info about Fluoride, read this:
    http://www.fluoridesandhealth.ie/background/fluoridation_forum_summary.pdf

    Those anti-Fluoride groups are actually some of the stupidest people I've ever seen. They just like to report the sensationalist, untrue claims. I've seen one website which claimed Fluoride was a method of brain control and it turns your brain to mush.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Junior D wrote: »
    Those anti-Fluoride groups are actually some of the stupidest people I've ever seen. They just like to report the sensationalist, untrue claims. I've seen one website which claimed Fluoride was a method of brain control and it turns your brain to mush.

    Yep - and that's why the Nazis just loved it for the oul concentration camps. Won't someone think of the children!?

    I have to admit. Conspiracy guff just winds me up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭Junior D


    Or read this to help with the understanding. Its the Fluoride section of a paper I wrote called "The Improvements in the Oral Health of children in Ireland in the last 50 years". I was limited to a word count, so its somewhat compressed. I've even given references so if you're that pushed you can look up the info yourself. Btw some of the pictures and tables I had in it won't come up and may look a little weird. I forgot to mention here that DMFT stands for Decayed Missing or Filled Teeth. dmft is the same but for children:
    Fluoride
    In 1901, whilst working in Naples, an American physician, J.M. Eager, documented a high frequency concerning enamel defects and stained teeth in his patients. In 1930 H.V. Churchill investigated the cause of this mottled enamel. Using a new analytical method on the water supplies of the affected patients, he found high concentrations of fluoride at 13.7 parts per million (p.p.m.). Subsequent water analysis from other affected areas also revealed high fluoride concentrations ranging from 2p.p.m to 12p.p.m.[4] Excessive fluoridation was confirmed as the cause for the enamel defects and stained teeth.[5] Then in 1942, Dr. H. Trendley Dean demonstrated that areas with a drinking water supply fluoride content of 1p.p.m., the incidence of dental caries in children was below average, without the consequence of mottled enamel which occurred with a fluoride level in excess of 2p.p.m. (Water Fluoridation and Public Health page 5.). “Dental caries is a dynamic process characterized by episodic demineralisation and remineralisation occurring over time.”[6] As of the understanding that fluoride may be beneficial to the teeth, there was mass fluoridation around the world. In 1964 the Irish Supreme Court decided to implement water fluoridation to the country, despite the challenge of a Mrs Ryan regarding the ethical issue of consumption choice behind the move. [4] At this moment in time, roughly 73% of the Irish population receives a fluoridated water supply, containing an average of 0.8p.p.m. [7] Fluoride has now been shown to decrease the incidence of caries in Irish children. In non-fluoridated areas the “halo effect”, “the presence of fluoride in common items of food and drink which are manufactured in the larger fluoridated towns and cities and then distributed widely in surrounding non-fluoridated areas”, of fluoride is accountable for a reduction in the incidence of caries.[4]
    One way of assessing how effective fluoride has been for improving the oral health of Irish children in the last fifty years is to compare them to their Northern Irish counterparts, who do not receive fluoridated water.[4] In 2002, the incidence of caries in five year olds living in the Republic of Ireland was 44% lower than those living in the North of Ireland. Also, the DMFT among the fifteen year olds of the Republic of Ireland was 42% lower than those living in Northern Ireland. In the last fifty years, there has been a big decrease in dmft values in Ireland.
    Indicators of dental caries in fluoridated and non-fluoridated areas in the Southern Health Board region
    12 year old children
    Non-Fluoridated Area
    Fluoridated Area DMFT Score in: 1984 1995
    4.1 1.8
    3.3 1.3
    15 year old children
    Non-Fluoridated Area
    Fluoridated Area DMFT Score in: 1984 1995
    6.8 4.3
    5.4 2.8

    [Reference: O’ Connor, M., Fitzpatrick, P., Johnson, H. & Thornton, L. (1999) “Water Fluoridation and Public Health” Faculty of Public Health Medicine Royal College of Physicians of Ireland pp. 14]

    Since the mass fluoridation of water there has been a reduction of dental caries by approximately 70%. [7] Despite fluoride’s fundamental role in reducing caries incidence, it cannot prevent pit and fissure caries. This is because the fluoride ions cannot pass into the narrow fissures of the tooth’s occlusal surface. [8]
    Water fluoridation is not the only method of introducing fluoride to the body. The prevalent use of toothpaste has also contributed to the decline in caries incidence. Studies have shown a synergistic relationship between fluoridated water and fluoridated toothpastes, i.e. they have a greater benefit when used simultaneously than when either is used alone.[4]
    Topical fluorides are also available, which are recommended for at-risk patients. Fluoride gel use is recommended for those aged 6 and over, 5% sodium fluoride varnishes recommended for all age groups. Fluoride varnish efficacy and safety are well-supported by extensive studies and trials.
    Mean dmft of 12-year old children in Eastern Health Board region (greater Dublin area), 1961-97. The years shown are 1961, 1984, 1993 and 1997 respectively
    [Reference: Clarkson J., Mc Loughlin, J. & O’ Hickey S. (2002) “Water Fluoridation in Ireland – A Success Story” Discovery. 82(5), pp. 334-337]

    References
    [1] Daly, B., Watt, R., Batchelor, P. & Treasure, E. (2005) Essential Public Dental Health. London: Oxford University Press, pp. 79-81 & 204
    [2] WHO (1987) Oral Health Surveys Basic Methods. Available at: http://whocollab.od.mah.se/expl/orhcpitn.html (Accessed: 10 March 2012)
    [3] Ertugay, E. et al. (2001) “The Use of the Index of Orthodontic Treatment Needs (IOTN) in a School Population and Referred Population”, Journal of Orthodontics, Vol. 28, No. 1, 45-52, March 2001, ManeyJournals [Online]. Available at: http://jorthod.maneyjournals.org/cgi/content/full/28/1/45 (Accessed: 10 March 2012)
    [4] Department of Health and Children, Fottrell, P. et al. (2002) “Forum on Fluoridation Ireland – Executive Summary”, History of Water Fluoridation. Available at: http://www.fluoridesandhealth.ie/background/fluoridation_forum.pdf (Accessed: 10 March 2012)
    [5] Kidd, E. (2004) “Fluoride Supplementation” in Kidd, E. A.M. (eds.) Essentials of Dental Caries. London: Oxford University Press, pp. 114-117
    [6] Murray, J.J. et al. (2005) “Dental Caries” in Mitchell, D., Mitchell, L. Oxford Handbook of Clinical Dentistry. 4th ed. London: Oxford University Press, pp. 28-30
    [7] Dental Health Foundation Ireland (2011) Services for Children’s and Special Needs Groups. Available at: http://www.dentalhealth.ie/dentalhealth/services/specialneeds.html (Accessed: 10 March 2012)
    [8] White, B. (1993) “Toward Improving the Oral Health of Americans: An overview of oral health status, resources and care delivery.” Public Health Reports 108:657-672
    [9] Irish Dental Association (2010) “Dental Within the Health Boards”. Available at: http://www.dentist.ie/resources/services/mcdentistry.jsp (Accessed: 10 March 2012)
    [10] Ormbsy, M. et al. (2010) “Evidence-based guidance on the use of sealants for the prevention and management of pit and fissure caries”, Dental Health. Available at: http://www.dentalhealth.ie/download/pdf/fs_guideline_online_final_v_2.pdf (Accessed: 10 March 2012
    [11] UAB Magazine (1998) “Dentistry Then and Now – A Revolution In Care”, UAB Magazine, Spring 1998, Volume 18, no.2, Available at: http://main.uab.edu/show.asp?durki=45954 (Accessed: 10 March 2012)
    [12] Dentistry Today (2011) Jeffery M. Rosenberg DDS “Technology enhances caries diagnosis and treatment”, Available at: http://www.dentistrytoday.com/restorative/mid-restorative/4341-technology-enhances-caries-diagnosis+treatment (Accessed: 10 March 2012)
    [13] Endo Experience (2011) “Local Anesthesia in Dentistry – Then and Now”, Available at: http://www.endoexperience.com/filecabinet/Clinical%20Endodontics/Anesthesia/Local%20Anesthetics%20in%20Dentistry.pdf. (Accessed: 10 March 2012)
    [14] Your Dentistry Guide (2011) “Laser Dentistry: Enhancing dental treatment with laser” Lesley Ranft Available at: http://www.yourdentistryguide.com/laser/ (Accessed: 10 March 2012)
    [15] Children’s Food Campaign (2011) Home Page “Food advertising to children”, Available at: http://www.childrensfoodcampaign.net/ (Accessed: 10 March 2012)
    [16] HSE (2004) “Winning Smiles: Schools Oral Health Promotion Programme for 7-8 year olds”, Available at: http://www.lenus.ie/hse/bitstream/10147/45044/1/6777.pdf (Accessed: 10 March 2012)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭Junior D


    alastair wrote: »
    Yep - and that's why the Nazis just loved it for the oul concentration camps. Won't someone think of the children!?

    I have to admit. Conspiracy guff just winds me up.

    Yeah sorry, should've mentioned that the Fluoride was added to the water by Nazi's to control their population's minds. :rolleyes:


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