'Shooters' Forum Proposal

Also, just to be clear because not everyone uses the same terminology:

What I'm writing now, is a single post. This post is located in a thread called 'Shooter' Forum Proposal, and that thread, is currently located in the Games forum.

Just so we're all on the same level. I'd hate to think people thought we wanted to put everything about shooters into a single thread or something.

I'll try my best to explain the various points & questions raised thus far. I'd just like to point out that this is currently still just an idea, & may or may not happen. I'm currently leaning toward supporting it, but there's a few important things to iron out which are mentioned below.

Overheal wrote: »

Hold Up.

Didn't the Games Category undergo a massive consolidation a few years ago to - specifically - undo a lot of the fragmentation that had occurred? Same problem every time:

A popular Game shows up

Game is available on multiple platforms

Game covers one or two major genres, one of them being Strategy, lets say.

So does discussion of this game end up in say, the Strategy Forum, Xbox, Playstation, or simply Game forum? If you need reminding, Strategy was just one example of a now-defunct Games Category forum. There was also one for Valve games, which were all pretty much - you guessed it - shooter games.

Yes we've undone much of the fragmentation that was caused by the many dead dedicated forums, but we've also expanded into new territory too. It's important to note that while we did have some dead wood, we're also massively behind the curve in other areas, & there's always room to improve how we cover our bases too. The problem with much of the old setup, was that we had dedicated forums to specific games...and that there was the problem. Games come and go, tomorrows big release is next years old news. We've moved away from creating specific game forums (Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, Command & Conquer etc), to instead having genre based coverage. This makes a lot more sense, because while individual games popularity rises and falls, the genres are always there. That's what this 'Shooters' forum would be, a forum dedicated to a genre, not a game. It therefore, can adapt to new games and discard old ones without ever having to change itself.

Strategy as a genre forum did indeed grow old, and become defunct. That could be attributed to perhaps the decline of popularity of strategy games over the years. Wr do have genre forums that are thriving and healthy, for their own reasons - Arcade & Retro, Fantasy Sports, Fighting Games and the others. The Xbox & Playstation forums (along with Nintendo), cover a very limited amount of actual games discussion, primarily of the 'so what are you playing today' type thing. Big game chat certainly won't end up in the console forums. The Valve shooter forum, if you remember, has become the PC Gaming forum of today...a very healthy and vital forum which is totally separate to this one. Limiting things to just Valve, was too narrow a scope and was only done so as we rolled the dead Half Life and Counter Strike forums into it....another example of why dedicated game forums don't work, where genre based ones have a much better chance.

If the purpose of this proposal is to give Destiny more breathing space, specifically, then give it it's own sub forum under Games Category > Games > Popular Games >

That's easily the cleanest solution without reverting back to the old Games Category, when there was a reason it was axed.

The purpose isn't to give just Destiny more breathing space though, if it were, a Destiny forum would be the obvious solution. For reasons above though, dedicated game forums seem not to be the best solution. The idea is to give the games in that genre, room to breathe....outside of the one thread per game limit in this forum.

logik wrote: »

I think it is a good idea but games like Halo, Destiny, BF and COD are going to need their own sub thread within the shooter thread. Do it.

This is an example of people using differing terminology. I think you're mixing up 'threads' for 'forums'. CoD & BF already have their own forums, they'll be sticking around for the time being anyway.The 'shooter thread', will be the 'shooter forum', and a forum can house many threads.

Varik wrote: »

if it goes ahead there's no need for separate BF, COD, or Halo forums ect, not enough active threads in each to justify It.

Halo no, that'd be rolled into Shooters. CoD & BF, for the moment will retain their status.

Cormac... wrote: »

How would the actual threads be broken out within the forum?

Like if we take Destiny as the example, will there numerous threads for say:

[X-Box One] Destiny Fireteams
[PS4] Destiny Fireteams
[General] Destiny Discussion
[Tips] Destiny Tips, Tricks, Advice and Guides
[General] What's Xur Selling?
[General] Patches and Updates

etc etc etc

EDIT: The reason I ask, there'll need to be some thought to avoid too much fragmentation.
Like for Destiny, the X-box guys use the main thread to schedule raids etc, most of us on PS4 use the in-console chat room.
But we all still benefit from "general chat" and Meta-Game discussion.
Again, I'm only using Destiny as an example, but if you limited the amount of Threads via clearing modding and didn't allow general chit/chat in some of them it could work.
If every Tom, Dick and Harry wants to create a thread just cause they don't have a specific Exotic weapon.... we'll all have a bad time

Ideally, the forum will develop its own kinda tone and flow. The users themselves, along with mod team, will probably settle on what they collectively feel is the best approach. As mentioned, nothing is set in stone at this point.

Cormac... wrote: »

EDIT: Also where does the line get drawn on this? Is it just FPS or is it 3rd person shooters too (Uncharted, Resident Evil?)

Well that there is the big question. This forum here, is our central location, and the go-to place for many users. That must be protected, but we still need to recognise that the Games Category doesn't just revolve around this forum. We need to have a think about how best we can allow growth elsewhere, without impacting on this forum.

TheDoc wrote: »

It might be an idea to maybe have a shooter category with some obvious candidates as sub-forums (CoD, BF) and maybe as a title maintains its popularity, that it would warrant it's own area.

Again, I'm not sure if this is a terminology mix up. When you say a Shooter Category, do you mean forum? If so, it'd be called 'Shooters' or something along those lines, and it would have CoD & BF as subforums. In my opinion, it'd be a much more natural home for them as opposed to where they are now.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Shooters covers an awful lot of games really and moving all discussion to it really wouldn't be something I'd be in favour of. I feel it should be more about the community aspect, clans and such. This was the purpose really of the dedicated shooter forums when they were created.

Indeed. This is the nub of the matter, and something that needs to be thrown about to see what users and mods alike feel might be the best way of managing things.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I do think the main question to be asked is if there really is a need for the forum

I think there is a need JU, but that doesn't equate to it being a success. I think certain games really would benefit from being allowed to grow beyond the limits of a single thread. Megathreads are fine up until a point, but ultimately, when the demand is there for chat it's surely deserving of at least a chance to grow beyond the home thread. How many great forums would not be around today if we took the approach of 'it's fine as it is'? It might be fine, nobody is disputing that, but the idea proposes that things could be even better. If it doesn't work it doesn't work, there's no loss & we can just go back to things as they are...but I think we should take the lid off burgeoning threads & ideas and see how they do on their own from time to time.

I've grown more and more against the idea of subforums for individual games (and TV shows, to pick an example in another category) unless it's a truly exceptionally popular title - for example Minecraft or GTA, to pick two titles that have a proven fanbase to back it up, or CoD and Battlefield (even if both games aren't the phenomena they once were). While a shooter forum would obviously be much broader by its very nature, I would question whether we're going to be asking users to click through to another forum when it could be well served elsewhere. Could community-driven threads sustain an entire forum, when for example they could be housed in the respective platform forums (and PC gaming I think we all agree has been a big success)?

From a new users perspective, I think having such discussion in the platform forums is way more confusing, over having it in a clearly spelled out home. "You can talk about this game in this way in this forum, but for anything else you need to use this forum" is essentially the message there. I'd imagine a clearly marked genre forum is a better approach. Would there not be users wondering why they can discuss Shooters in the Playstation forum, and why they can't discuss other genres there?

Destiny is clearly popular and has already crossed over into a second thread in games, but would that successfully splinter off in a shooter forum? The truth is we're no reddit in terms of traffic, so dedicated forums are always going to be relatively quiet. Megathreads aren't ideal either, but often the lesser of two evils.

That I can't answer. I'm of the opinion it's worth considering, and possibly trying anyway.

The online TV forum recently opened is a good example - there was plenty of canvassing for it to open, and plenty of discussion on how individual shows could demand multiple threads instead of one 'master' thread in TV. In practice, though, it hasn't worked out that way at all, and ironically it's only the megathreads within the new forum getting major traffic.

I didn't give that a +1 actually, I didn't feel it was going to take off myself. I see your point, & for me it's the crux of the matter...will discussion grow beyond the confines of a single thread? It's hard to say, but the signs would certainly suggest it could (old thread reached 10K posts, new thread following suit & very busy). And that's just for Destiny. With other games out there, and more on the horizon...I do think there's potential pay dirt in the idea.

I would definitely suggest if the idea does go ahead, it would be on a trial basis. Give it maybe two or three months, and if it doesn't work out be happy to say it didn't work out. And of course if it does work out, then huzzah!

Definitely, though I'd probably suggest longer than two/three months. It's an idea that could me made or broken by a game release or two. If we trial this at a quiet period in the release calender, it could flop. If we trial it when there's new games/content arriving in quick succession, it could have an entirely different result. I'd prob look at giving it at least 8 months to a year to be sure.

Anyway, sorry, slight word fart there, hope there's some coherent feedback in that!

Always appreciated

Kirby wrote: »

I don't think it's necessary. And I hate fragmentation of discussion. If I had my way, we wouldn't even have a PC Games forum......Everything would be in here. These types of forums don't see enough traffic.

So my vote, for however little its worth, is nay.

Duly noted, cheers. Though I have to say, having everything in here is the equivilent of trying to fit an entire magazine's contents on the front cover...it's far to confined and limiting to expect one forum to cater to everything. Fragmentation isn't the bad wolf it's made out to be, sometimes, it's actually necessary and helps things. As for shooters, I'm still to'ing and fro'ing on the idea...there's good arguments for and against. It's a balancing act/judgement call really.