Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Students exempt from Irish Post Primary

Options
  • 19-08-2014 2:29pm
    #1
    hdipdilemma
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭


    Hello
    Just a quick query on how other schools accommodate students that are exempt from Irish. There is a large percentage of students from other countries in the school and the majority of the students involved are exempt due to nationality rather than because they have a learning disability. In the past these students sat in the back of the irish class and did homework.

    However, this year the Principal has allocated resource teachers to supervise students during the times they school be in Irish. I think the idea is to do study skills and additional english classes during this time but the this would appear to me to be a big drain on resources and my concern would be that students who should be receiving learning support will not receive the support they need as the resource teachers will be tied up supervising students who do not have learning disabilities. We are a small DEIS VEC school with approx 20 staff. One of the irish teachers has been experiencing discipline problems and I believe that this may be one of the main reasons behind the decision to make this change.
    Is there anyone out there is a similar situation or do you have separate supervised study for those exempt from irish and found it to be a worthwhile exercise. Any views opinions would be appreciated.


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Boober Fraggle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭Boober Fraggle


    I suppose the viability of it would depend on how many students there are, and if by not having students sitting at the back of their class, does it mean Irish teachers have more actual students in their classes, therefor maybe one less teacher on the line than they would normally have.

    We have a mixture in our school, depending on how many students with exemptions there are in a particular year group. I think it is very unfair on students to spend 5 periods per week listening to an Irish teacher and trying to do their own work. If there is an alternative, it should be taken up.


  • Options
    #3
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    From what I understand students that have been diagnosed with a learning disability are allocated hours for resource, which are specific to that student. Schools are also allocated a general resource allocation which can be used as the principal sees fit. Maybe the hours come from the general resource allocation.

    Actually I think it's a good idea. If there are discipline problems in the class due to a large number of students sitting in it not doing Irish, it is preventing other students from learning. Removing them from the class means the Irish class benefits.

    Giving those students extra English lessons at that time improves their English which should have a knock on effect across their subjects. Surely it's also possible that some of these students that have Irish exemptions also have learning disabilities and a resource allocation?


  • Options
    #4
    hdipdilemma
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭hdipdilemma


    I think its a good idea in theory if it was a bigger school with a larger teacher allocation that could afford to use resources in this way. In this case there is only 1 full time and 1 part time resource teacher in the school (I am part time on 11 hours). I'm in a vulnerable position as Im not permanent so i wont have a lot of say in the matter. My colleague is going mad about the situation.
    There are a minimum of 25 class periods (over 16 hours) where one of the resource teachers will be supervising students exempt from irish the majority of whom do not have learning difficulties.
    We have a number of students that have diagnosis of ADHD, SEBD and ASD who will have to take priority for remaining 17 resource hours. Therefore students who have high incidence SEN such as Dyslexia,dyspraxia, dyscalculia or MGLD will not receive any learning support as the teachers timetables will be full.
    I suppose I just feel that it is glorified supervision based on a classroom management issue rather than the needs of the students. Students who are genuinely in need of and entitled to learning support will not get it as the teachers are supervising students unnecessarily.


  • Options
    #5
    Boober Fraggle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭Boober Fraggle


    I don't think it's fair to call it a classroom management issue. There are many strategies for classroom management, but most of them involve finding the interests of your students and keeping them busy. I don't see why an Irish teacher would be expected to babysit any more than a resource teacher would. It sounds like you are trying to blame the Irish teacher.

    I would presume some of the students entitled to learning support would overlap with the ones exempt from Irish. Maybe you could work with them and allow the others to study quietly in your class and see how it goes.


  • Options
    #6
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    Boober Fraggle wrote: »
    I don't think it's fair to call it a classroom management issue. There are many strategies for classroom management, but most of them involve finding the interests of your students and keeping them busy. I don't see why an Irish teacher would be expected to babysit any more than a resource teacher would. It sounds like you are trying to blame the Irish teacher.
    I'd agree with this. Surely the students who are exempt from Irish are still entitled to be taught while their classmates are learning Irish? The Irish teacher can't be expected to teach Irish to most of the class and teach english (or whatever else) to those who are exempt at the same time. It might not be an ideal use of resource hours but it's better than saying that those exempt from Irish don't need to be catered for.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    solerina
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭solerina


    It seems strange to me that students without Learning difficulties are being given resource hours, even if these hours are coming from the general allocation rather than hours specifically assigned to particular students this doesn't seem fair. These hours are supposed to be used to help students with dyslexia etc who do not get their own specifically allocated hours, this is denying the students who really need help in my opinion.


  • Options
    #8
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    There could be more to this. We don't know if the principal has allocated any resource hours to anyone besides the OP and another teacher mentioned.


  • Options
    #9
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    There could be more to this. We don't know if the principal has allocated any resource hours to anyone besides the OP and another teacher mentioned.

    Ya that's true, hours are flying all over the place to make up timetables etc (even non-resource LS teachers.. (leaving aside the ethics of doing so!!).

    If it's any help.. here's a list of the allocation every school is getting this year (HERE), so if you want to cross reference the total hours with the resource timetable OP it might help a bit to find out what hours are where!! (MAYBE!!)


  • Options
    #10
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Armelodie wrote: »
    Ya that's true, hours are flying all over the place to make up timetables etc (even non-resource LS teachers.. (leaving aside the ethics of doing so!!).

    If it's any help.. here's a list of the allocation every school is getting this year (HERE), so if you want to cross reference the total hours with the resource timetable OP it might help a bit to find out what hours are where!! (MAYBE!!)

    ya I've got three periods of resource on my timetable for the first time in 7 or 8 years, I was surprised to see it to say the least.


  • Options
    #11
    hdipdilemma
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭hdipdilemma


    I had already checked the school allocation and we have 31 resource hours for the year. I know its good for the kids exempt from Irish obviously but students with sen will definitely lose out as there just aren't enough staff and hours to go around. We will just have to wait and see. We have a lot of very involved parents, especially those whose kids have SEN so it will be interesting to see if they start to complain when they realise their kids aren't getting as much support as they did in other years.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    hdipdilemma wrote: »
    I had already checked the school allocation and we have 31 resource hours for the year. I know its good for the kids exempt from Irish obviously but students with sen will definitely lose out as there just aren't enough staff and hours to go around. We will just have to wait and see. We have a lot of very involved parents, especially those whose kids have SEN so it will be interesting to see if they start to complain when they realise their kids aren't getting as much support as they did in other years.

    your last point is very pertinent... esp. if a student is entitled to 4hrs resource and doesn't get them (and genuinely the timetable mightnt allow for it).. Where do the unused resource hours go?

    Back to the department!! Like heck they do..


Advertisement