Interesting Public Sector comparison with NI

woodoo · 19-03-2012 7:41pm #1

I found this quite interesting. We are often told that wages here are much higher than in the UK.

From the Sunday Independent yesterday the following comparisons were made on wages for the PSNI and the Guards (converted to Euro):

PSNI
Constable: €30,480 - €43,967
Sergent: €42,872 - €49,410
Inspector €54,929 - €61,101
SuperIntendent: €73,139 - €87,388
Chief Super: €87,338 - €94,673
Assistant Chief Constable: €109229 - €127,436

Guards:
Garda: €25,745 - €45,793
Sergent: €46,226 - €53119
Inspector: €45,404 - €59178
Superintendent: €72841 - €84909
Chief Super: €87259 - €104457
Assistant Commissioner: €139,444

They seem quite similar and considering the difference in living costs the PSNI officers would be a lot better off?

femur61 · 19-03-2012 8:57pm

I don't know but do people in the UK pay more tax. They have the NHS, free lumch in schools so is their net salary different. I know now levies etc have been introduced but before that was there wage comparable tax wise.

murphaph · 19-03-2012 9:18pm

femur61 wrote: »

I don't know but do people in the UK pay more tax. They have the NHS, free lumch in schools so is their net salary different. I know now levies etc have been introduced but before that was there wage comparable tax wise.

The PSNI aside (there are almost certainly historical reasons why police officers in NI are comparatively well paid-remembering that one was blown up in the not too distant past.) the UK pays its public servants much less, especially in the NHS (when compared to the HSE). They also have much smaller benefits (dole at 65 quid a week) and so on. They spend less in delivering more I suppose.

ardmacha · 19-03-2012 9:50pm

They spend less in delivering more I suppose.

I suspect you suppose wrong, if NI is the point of comparison, as there are much larger numbers of people in the public employ there than in the Republic, Scotland etc.

djpbarry · 20-03-2012 10:46am

Generally speaking, salaries are far lower in the UK than in Ireland. I recently read that the median gross UK salary is about £26,000 - I'll try and dig up the source for that. I don't seem to be able to find an equivalent figure for Ireland, but I do know that the mean gross salary in Ireland is around the €36,000 mark:

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/2011/earnlabcosts_q42011.pdf

sarumite · 20-03-2012 11:04am

djpbarry wrote: »

Generally speaking, salaries are far lower in the UK than in Ireland. I recently read that the median gross UK salary is about £26,000 - I'll try and dig up the source for that. I don't seem to be able to find an equivalent figure for Ireland, but I do know that the mean gross salary in Ireland is around the €36,000 mark:

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/2011/earnlabcosts_q42011.pdf

On top of that, it should be noted that the Euro has slid in value to the sterling but wages on either side of the border haven't been changed to reflect that. The euro was worth around about 90pence this time last year as now it is worth nearer 85 pence. As such, converting from sterling to euro when making a comparison will have a bit of a multiplier effect on paper which doesn't actually exist in reality.

n97 mini · 20-03-2012 11:28am

Gardaí have an awful lot of allowances built in that are not part of basic pay but are included for pension calculations.

The McCarthy Report wrote:

The Group notes the large number of allowances paid to members of the Gardaí and that the majority of these allowances are pay-related and pensionable. Many of the allowances appear to have limited rational justification.

The overall Garda pay bill is around €940m a year (excluding employers PRSI contribution) of which €643m (or 68%) is regular pay with €217m on allowances and €80m on overtime.

There are some 57 allowances in total, including the following:

• Rent Allowance (€58.9m in 2008): whatever about the historical origins of this allowance, it is essentially treated as part of pay and is paid to every member up to and including Chief Superintendent; **whether they rent or not**
• Premium Payments (€9.07m in 2008): to members who are on leave, etc, and would ordinarily be entitled to claim unsocial hours allowance if they were not on leave;
• Clerical Allowance (€2.07m in 2008): to officers engaged in clerical duties to compensate for loss of other allowances, particularly unsocial hours;
• Gaeltacht Allowance and Aran Island Allowance (€1.2m in 2008): for members serving in defined Gaeltacht areas who perform their duties through the medium of Irish and whose knowledge of the language is certified as adequate for that purpose and to compensate members stationed on the Aran Islands for the special costs of travel to and from the mainland;
• Change Management Allowance (€0.1m in 2008): paid to Garda Sergeants and Inspectors appointed to the Garda Change Management Unit for application of their policing knowledge and skills and to ensure retention of skilled police officers in this area;
• Uniform Grant and Allowance and Boot Allowance (€50.4m in 2008): paid to members of An Garda Síochána for the maintenance of uniform;
• Plain Clothes Allowance (€1.9m): paid in lieu of the uniform allowance for maintenance of plain clothes – clothes not provided; and
• Non-Public Duty Allowances (€1.7m in 2008): to members of An Garda Síochána who perform a duty of a non-public nature (e.g. inside sports stadiums, race meetings).

Gumbo · 20-03-2012 11:48am

n97 mini wrote: »

Gardaí have an awful lot of allowances built in that are not part of basic pay but are included for pension calculations.

But isint it true that not all gardai can claim all these allowances, only the few allownaces that relate to their current position / line of work?

n97 mini · 20-03-2012 11:52am

kceire wrote: »

But isint it true that not all gardai can claim all these allowances, only the few allownaces that relate to their current position / line of work?

In 2008 two thirds is pay, one third is allowances, such as this one:

Rent Allowance (€58.9m in 2008): whatever about the historical origins of this allowance, it is essentially treated as part of pay and is paid to every member up to and including Chief Superintendent

n97 mini · 20-03-2012 11:57am

woodoo wrote: »

Guards:
Garda: €25,745 - €45,793
Sergent: €46,226 - €53119
Inspector: €45,404 - €59178
Superintendent: €72841 - €84909
Chief Super: €87259 - €104457
Assistant Commissioner: €139,444

The actual gross pay, when allowances such as rent allowance (€4162 per member per annum, tax free) are included will average around 45% higher than those figures.

gurramok · 20-03-2012 12:05pm

An NI have rates(like property tax) which some down here are horrified of, its a bill that has to be paid out of an officers net pay. http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/rates http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0124/1224310672338.html

Irish Times wrote:

Properties in the Holyland are now valued at about £140,000 (€168,000) based on a revaluation programme carried out in 2005 – close to the height of the housing boom. So most rates bill are about £940 (€1,127) per annum.

A grand p.a. for a 168k house, free here(ROI!)!

fliball123 · 20-03-2012 12:21pm

gurramok wrote: »

An NI have rates(like property tax) which some down here are horrified of, its a bill that has to be paid out of an officers net pay. http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/rates http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0124/1224310672338.html

A grand p.a. for a 168k house, free here(ROI!)!

What a bad argument so in which country has the higher cost of living??? All of which has to be paid out of the officers nett pay your being disingenerous..the argument should be based on the Garda vs PSNI Gross Salary + Allowences...nothing else as this is what the tax payer has to pay

K-9 · 20-03-2012 12:59pm

femur61 wrote: »

I don't know but do people in the UK pay more tax. They have the NHS, free lumch in schools so is their net salary different. I know now levies etc have been introduced but before that was there wage comparable tax wise.

NIC is about 11% so despite the USC and PRSI, still higher. Better tax credits here as well so on the lower levels of wages quoted, Net pay would be higher.

Not sure on what the pension deductions would be for the PSNI.

murphaph wrote: »

The PSNI aside (there are almost certainly historical reasons why police officers in NI are comparatively well paid-remembering that one was blown up in the not too distant past.) the UK pays its public servants much less, especially in the NHS (when compared to the HSE). They also have much smaller benefits (dole at 65 quid a week) and so on. They spend less in delivering more I suppose.

The impression I always had was that the PSNI were better paid than their English equivalent, not sure if that stacks up now, could well have been just more overtime and danger money allowances.

gurramok · 20-03-2012 1:16pm

fliball123 wrote: »

What a bad argument so in which country has the higher cost of living??? All of which has to be paid out of the officers nett pay your being disingenerous..the argument should be based on the Garda vs PSNI Gross Salary + Allowences...nothing else as this is what the tax payer has to pay

The question was which is better off?

Which profession pays less tax then? Comparison of tax rates : http://www.kearon.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/IRL-UK-tax-comparison-2012-rates.pdf

Seems to me most ordinary rank officers down here are better off as they pay less income tax(under 40k earnings bracket) and do not pay high indirect taxes like property tax.

fliball123 · 20-03-2012 1:28pm

gurramok wrote: »

The question was which is better off?

Which profession pays less tax then? Comparison of tax rates : http://www.kearon.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/IRL-UK-tax-comparison-2012-rates.pdf

Seems to me most ordinary rank officers down here are better off as they pay less income tax(under 40k earnings bracket) and do not pay high indirect taxes like property tax.

True but every citizen wheather public / private or dolee has a myriad of taxes to pay in Ireland..This idea that we are a low tax country is now longer able to hold water...When carbon, the new household, soon to come water taxes, VAT, DIRT, PRSI, USC are taken into consideration we pay our fair share and as much as those in the north do.

ardmacha · 20-03-2012 1:32pm

True but every citizen wheather public / private or dolee has a myriad of taxes to pay in Ireland..

True but every citizen wheather public / private or dolee has a myriad of taxes to pay in every country. So what?

fliball123 · 20-03-2012 1:39pm

ardmacha wrote: »

True but every citizen wheather public / private or dolee has a myriad of taxes to pay in every country. So what?

Well we are arguing that up north they pay a tax which we are kicking and screaming about ala the household tax..I just think its a bad argument to pick one specific tax that one country is paying and the other is not when we are looking at what the O.P has brought up?

gurramok · 20-03-2012 1:47pm

fliball123 wrote: »

Well we are arguing that up north they pay a tax which we are kicking and screaming about ala the household tax..I just think its a bad argument to pick one specific tax that one country is paying and the other is not when we are looking at what the O.P has brought up?

Why not? It costs a grand for a £140k value house as in the link. That NI officer is down 1k already.

fliball123 · 20-03-2012 1:48pm

gurramok wrote: »

Why not? It costs a grand for a £140k value house as in the link. That NI officer is down 1k already.

I agree but you have to bring everything in to play then when dealing with the respective police vs gard argument on their Nett wage. Deal with the Gross that is what the tax payer is paying, how they spend it or what tax they pay are irrelent.

djpbarry · 20-03-2012 2:16pm

fliball123 wrote: »

True but every citizen wheather public / private or dolee has a myriad of taxes to pay in Ireland..This idea that we are a low tax country is now longer able to hold water...When carbon, the new household, soon to come water taxes, VAT, DIRT, PRSI, USC are taken into consideration we pay our fair share and as much as those in the north do.

The carbon tax is relatively small, the household charge is miniscule compared to what UK residents pay in council tax, we already have water charges in the UK and we also pay VAT and DIRT. As for PRSI and the USC, the average person in the UK has significantly larger deductions taken from their income than the average person in Ireland.

fliball123 · 20-03-2012 2:18pm

djpbarry wrote: »

The carbon tax is relatively small, the household charge is miniscule compared to what UK residents pay in council tax, we already have water charges in the UK and we also pay VAT and DIRT. As for PRSI and the USC, the average person in the UK has significantly larger deductions taken from their income than the average person in Ireland.

Have you any links to this?? I dont doubt it ..it would be good if we had a comparison with our nearest neighbour for taxes we are paying both direct and indirect

Godge · 20-03-2012 5:01pm

One thing that is interesting about Northern Ireland civil service pay rates is that at the top they are higher than down here with the top rate being £205,000 equivalent to €245,000, about 22% higher than our top rate of €200,000.

http://www.dfpni.gov.uk/scs-pay-bands-1-04-07-to-31-03-2012.pdf

It does seem that the amounts are dependant on performance. It would be interesting to see how many are at different parts of the pay bands.

It would seem that these rates cover principal officer and above in our civil service.

Head The Wall · 20-03-2012 5:03pm

fliball123 wrote: »

Have you any links to this?? I dont doubt it ..it would be good if we had a comparison with our nearest neighbour for taxes we are paying both direct and indirect

I am paying nearly three times as much in income tax and NI contributions here as I was at home. I also have to pay my share of council tax as a tenant which is £1500 in the 3 bed house I share. There is also water which gets paid quarterly (around 100)

Godge · 20-03-2012 5:23pm

It is often stated that our civil servants at the bottom deserve to be protected from pay cuts while it is the more senior civil servants that should be cut.

Looking at Northern Ireland figures
http://www.dfpni.gov.uk/pay_2010_circular.pdf

it would seem that the entry-level administrative post is paid a salary ranging from £15,619 to £17,533 which is equivalent to €18,734 to €21,030.

down here the clerical officer grade starts at €20,859 and goes up to €33,607. That includes the 10% cut for new entrants as well as the previous pay cut (it doesn't include the pension levy which was as low as 4% for these grades)

http://per.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/circ182010.pdf

Even if you look at the next level up in Northern Ireland - the Admin Officer - you see a payscale of £18,038 to £22,180 equivalent to €21,636 to €26,611, you see that our entry-level grade is better paid than the North's next level grade.

What do I conclude? Well, taken with my earlier post that showed those at the top in the North are paid more than those down South, these figures raise the question as to where the overpayment lies in the Irish public service - at the bottom seems to be the answer which is not the answer that most would expect.

woodoo · 20-03-2012 5:24pm

Head The Wall wrote: »

I am paying nearly three times as much in income tax and NI contributions here as I was at home. I also have to pay my share of council tax as a tenant which is £1500 in the 3 bed house I share. There is also water which gets paid quarterly (around 100)

But you can buy a tin of beans for about 11p over there or a loaf of bread for about 30p.

djpbarry · 20-03-2012 5:42pm

woodoo wrote: »

But you can buy a tin of beans for about 11p over there or a loaf of bread for about 30p.

If I saw a loaf of bread on sale for 30p in my local supermarket, I would doubt it was fit for human consumption.

AlmightyCushion · 20-03-2012 6:16pm

woodoo wrote: »

But you can buy a tin of beans for about 11p over there or a loaf of bread for about 30p.

Last time I checked Tesco value bread was 35c. I've never bought it though so I have no idea what it's like.

woodoo · 20-03-2012 6:16pm

This is an EU comparison report. http://www.iiea.com/blogosphere/public-sector-pay-at-a-glance (it does not include the paycut of 2010).

the executive secretary grades Ireland seems to be middle of the road. Take out the 2010 paycut and they may even be lower.

Middle and Senior management are near the top.

rasper · 20-03-2012 6:59pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

woodoo wrote: »

But you can buy a tin of beans for about 11p over there or a loaf of bread for about 30p.

Last time I checked Tesco value bread was 35c. I've never bought it though so I have no idea what it's like.

That must have been about 1995 as it's 65c today , but they can always buy cake

AlmightyCushion · 20-03-2012 7:41pm

rasper wrote: »

That must have been about 1995 as it's 65c today , but they can always buy cake

It was a couple of years ago.

fliball123 · 21-03-2012 10:32am

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Last time I checked Tesco value bread was 35c. I've never bought it though so I have no idea what it's like.

Same goes with Aldi and Lidl very cheap in comparison to dunnes and tescos..I can get a weekly shop for 3 adults and 1 under 2.yo for 80 Euro

Head The Wall · 21-03-2012 1:44pm

woodoo wrote: »

But you can buy a tin of beans for about 11p over there or a loaf of bread for about 30p.

Yes and then recoup the extra tax I pay via the NHS which is where you would spend your time if all you eat is that over processed crap. Some things are cheaper but not everything is and definitely not half or a third cheaper.

I did get in and out of casualty in 90 minutes yesterday after work. That wouldn't be happening in the HSE and no charge for it either.

Gumbo · 22-03-2012 10:31am

fliball123 wrote: »

Same goes with Aldi and Lidl very cheap in comparison to dunnes and tescos..I can get a weekly shop for 3 adults and 1 under 2.yo for 80 Euro

thought you were in Australia?

djpbarry · 22-03-2012 10:46am

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Last time I checked Tesco value bread was 35c. I've never bought it though so I have no idea what it's like.

I think it's probably about 60c in Ireland versus about 50p here. The point is there seems to be this belief in Ireland that everything can be bought for buttons in the UK when the reality is prices are (in general) only slightly lower, although for some products/services (such as public transport, for example) they can be far higher.

fliball123 · 22-03-2012 10:48am

kceire wrote: »

thought you were in Australia?

I am..just saying if I was in dublin I could do a weekly shop which I had done for the last couple of months before I went in aldi lidl for 80 quid what has that got to do with where I am?

Gumbo · 22-03-2012 12:59pm

fliball123 wrote: »

I am..just saying if I was in dublin I could do a weekly shop which I had done for the last couple of months before I went in aldi lidl for 80 quid what has that got to do with where I am?

I do the weekly shop in aldi finglas for myself, GF and one year old and its around €75. no way you can feef another adult for €5 extra.

fliball123 · 22-03-2012 1:08pm

kceire wrote: »

I do the weekly shop in aldi finglas for myself, GF and one year old and its around €75. no way you can feef another adult for €5 extra.

Yes I can.....I dont only go to aldi I also get the deals in tescos ala 3 lots of meat (chicken, steaks, mince, pork chops) for a tenner...I get two lots of these 3 meats thats the basis of 6 dinners for 20 quid..I get a big bag of spuds (sometimes cheaper in dunnes or tesco) usually a fiver, rice and pasta another fiver and then veg (big bag of onions, carrots, peppers, tomatoes) another tenner and then some sauces such as bolognaise, curry etc..On top of this I get the little fella a few cheap yogarts and some fruit..he eats mashed spuds and carrots and a bit of meat all blended up...So if you put evan another tenner on the yogarts and fruit..That comes to 50 quid leaving me 30 euros to get tioletries, washing powder, washing liquid soap (which we dont need every week) and other staples such as tea bags, bread and milk...

Head The Wall · 22-03-2012 1:25pm

djpbarry wrote: »

I think it's probably about 60c in Ireland versus about 50p here. The point is there seems to be this belief in Ireland that everything can be bought for buttons in the UK when the reality is prices are (in general) only slightly lower, although for some products/services (such as public transport, for example) they can be far higher.

Thats very true although a monthly bus pass for Galway city is around €60 and in London it'll cost you £72. For that you get to bus round the whole city, you can check when the next bus is due on your phone at every stop and you get buses that actually arrive something that is shortly lacking in Galway.

audidiesel · 22-03-2012 3:06pm

n97 mini wrote: »

The actual gross pay, when allowances such as rent allowance (€4162 per member per annum, tax free) are included will average around 45% higher than those figures.

rent allowance in the guards is no longer tax free,hasnt been for the past few months

n97 mini · 23-03-2012 10:59am

audidiesel wrote: »

rent allowance in the guards is no longer tax free,hasnt been for the past few months

Point is while its part of basic pay, and is also pensionable, it's not mentioned when discussing salary scales.

You can say a Garda starts on €27k, but in reality he/she starts on over €31k on account of rent allowance alone.

audidiesel · 25-03-2012 9:48pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Point is while its part of basic pay, and is also pensionable, it's not mentioned when discussing salary scales.

You can say a Garda starts on €27k, but in reality he/she starts on over €31k on account of rent allowance alone.

but then you have to account for the extra pension levy etc aswell. i just looked at an old paycheque of mine from december i happened to have beside the bed. i actually ended up paying about 160 euro more in my pension levy than i got in the rent allowance.

the pension levy costs more than the usc even. never realised it was that expensive until now.

so the point is you could say the rent allowance is worth €4k per year, but you loose more than that in the pension levy.

plus the rent allowance was brought in for two specific reasons in any case.

1. When attested Gardai are sent to a station somewhere in the republic. they have no say where they go. i could be from wexford and get shipped up to donegal and theres nothing i could do about that. its compensation for that. thats not like a normal private/public sector job, in that there you may have to travel to work but at least youd know applying where you are gonna end up and can plan for it. gardai only find out after 1 1/2 years training where they will be stationed.

2. the rent allowance was given to gardai as a way of giving them a seperate pay increase. as the public service is all linked on payscales, the only way the governments throughout the years could give guards a specific increase was to give them an allowance. no one else in the ps could claim that then.

also in relation to an earlier comment made, sadly there have been plenty of gardai killed in the line of duty aswell. death on duty is not exclusive to the psni, sadly its a risk in policing worldwide. altough every member of the psni was in receipt of a duty allowence of 3000 pounds sterling per year because of extra threats (this was up till 2010, dunno for definate if still in existance, but think it is.)

finally looking directly at my paycheque for the allowences i get. im a regular garda doing normal duties. for this i get two allowences each week which are both taxed. these are a boot allowance of 2.93 and a uniform allowance of 4.39. thats it. i get no other allowances whatsoever other than these two. the vast majority of guards working are getting the same as me.

see point two above for the main reasons we have these allowances.

n97 mini · 25-03-2012 10:34pm

audidiesel wrote: »

i actually ended up paying about 160 euro more in my pension levy than i got in the rent allowance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pension levy is an effort to get you to pay for some of your pension? i.e. you will get it back again (plus more) when you retire.

audidiesel wrote: »

so the point is you could say the rent allowance is worth €4k per year, but you loose more than that in the pension levy.

You don't lose it, you get it back when you retire.

audidiesel wrote: »

gardai only find out after 1 1/2 years training where they will be stationed.

Most gardai end up stationed where they want to be stationed, which is usually close to home. There are very few jobs (aside from teaching) where you can put in for a transfer and be stationed closed to home.

audidiesel wrote: »

the rent allowance was given to gardai as a way of giving them a seperate pay increase.

Yes, and it needs to be counted as such. There are other plenty of other perks too, such as garda widows/widowers being entitled to a full social welfare pension on top of the half garda pension they receive, on top of whatever other pensions they receive from their own job.

audidiesel wrote: »

get no other allowances whatsoever other than these two. the vast majority of guards working are getting the same as me.

Lots of people get no allowances at all. (I don't). My father was a garda, and he'd be the first that all in it wasn't a bad number.

woodoo · 25-03-2012 11:02pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pension levy is an effort to get you to pay for some of your pension? i.e. you will get it back again (plus more) when you retire.

You don't lose it, you get it back when you retire.

He was already getting his pension when he retired before the pension levy. The pension levy adds nothing to his pension, not a cent. Everyone knows the pension levy was a cut. Even Fianna Fail who implemented it.

Its like your boss making you come in on a Saturday in addition to your weeks work but not paying you any more. When you complain he says its just you contributing more for to your wages. You would know you have been loser in that change.

Damien360 · 26-03-2012 12:07am

audidiesel wrote: »

finally looking directly at my paycheque for the allowences i get. im a regular garda doing normal duties. for this i get two allowences each week which are both taxed. these are a boot allowance of 2.93 and a uniform allowance of 4.39. thats it. i get no other allowances whatsoever other than these two. the vast majority of guards working are getting the same as me.

see point two above for the main reasons we have these allowances.

But why should you get either allowance. Both of these are provided free of charge as part of your uniform. Yes you have to clean them at your cost but so does everyone else when they have uniforms and you can bet they will not get an allowance from their employer.

audidiesel · 26-03-2012 2:42am

Damien360 wrote: »

But why should you get either allowance. Both of these are provided free of charge as part of your uniform. Yes you have to clean them at your cost but so does everyone else when they have uniforms and you can bet they will not get an allowance from their employer.

as i said in my response

2. the rent allowance was given to gardai as a way of giving them a seperate pay increase. as the public service is all linked on payscales, the only way the governments throughout the years could give guards a specific increase was to give them an allowance. no one else in the ps could claim that then.

those two allowences were a way to give the gardai an extra €10 a week in pay that would not then have to be paid to other members of the public service. they were brought in many many years ago to give a small targeted pay rise essentially. its just they were called boot and uniform allowance.

both combined are worth €380.64 before tax for the entire year. so they arent really worth all that much in any case. but its a handy stick to try and beat us with if you fail to understand the whole reason behind them in the first place....

audidiesel · 26-03-2012 3:01am

n97 mini wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pension levy is an effort to get you to pay for some of your pension? i.e. you will get it back again (plus more) when you retire.

You don't lose it, you get it back when you retire.

i could easily make an argument that i already pay for my pension through the other taxes i pay. as already mentioned, the pension levy is purely a pay cut by another name. looking there my pension levy for last year came in at approx 37% of the value of my paye for the year. so essentially i was paying over a third more on top of my normal taxes. its a pay cut simple as.

n97 mini wrote: »

Most gardai end up stationed where they want to be stationed, which is usually close to home. There are very few jobs (aside from teaching) where you can put in for a transfer and be stationed closed to home.

with the exception of dublin, cork, limerick and 1-2 others you have to be stationed at least 30 miles from home. im stationed over 80 miles from where i was originally living when i joined. have you any evidence of these many gardai? im just asking as if id have said that id usually be asked to show a link backing it up.

most guards i know outside of dublin are all an hour or more from their original homes. as i said two hours in my case.

you can put in for a transfer, but theres absolutely no guarantees it will be accepted. plus over the last year or two there have not been many transfers granted due to no chiefs wanting to loose bodies that wont be replaced.

the majority of movements have been in the form of swaps between two guards between each other subject to local approval. but to do this you have to find someone willing to swap with you. theres many people who cant do this and have been trying to move for years.

n97 mini wrote: »

Yes, and it needs to be counted as such. There are other plenty of other perks too, such as garda widows/widowers being entitled to a full social welfare pension on top of the half garda pension they receive, on top of whatever other pensions they receive from their own job.

so your going after widows? im not even going to go into debating that one.

n97 mini wrote: »

Lots of people get no allowances at all. (I don't). My father was a garda, and he'd be the first that all in it wasn't a bad number.

"was" this job has changed dramatically in the last few years. over 70% of guards are on less than 6 years service. pay and conditions for those are a lot worse than what your father would have finished out on.

this is all getting a little off topic all the same though. the initial point made was that the gardai and psni arent paid all that differently. thats true enough in both wages and allowences.

n97 mini · 26-03-2012 9:33am

woodoo wrote: »

He was already getting his pension when he retired before the pension levy. The pension levy adds nothing to his pension, not a cent.

Correct me if I'm wrong but was he contributing enough towards his pension to cover its costs?

n97 mini · 26-03-2012 9:35am

audidiesel wrote: »

i could easily make an argument that i already pay for my pension through the other taxes i pay.

But isn't that the point. All your taxes plus levy don't cover your pension?

n97 mini · 26-03-2012 9:44am

audidiesel wrote: »

have you any evidence of these many gardai? im just asking as if id have said that id usually be asked to show a link backing it up.

I know around dozen gardaí (family and friends), and they're all living pretty much where they want to be living, or not far from it. There is no link that proves that.

audidiesel wrote: »

so your going after widows? im not even going to go into debating that one.

Why not? Garda widows/widowers are entitled to two state pensions, sometimes more. Should all state widows/widowers not get the same?

audidiesel wrote: »

"was" this job has changed dramatically in the last few years. over 70% of guards are on less than 6 years service. pay and conditions for those are a lot worse than what your father would have finished out on.

With all due respect, I don't think you know anything about my father's pay and conditions.

K-9 · 26-03-2012 10:08am

n97 mini wrote: »

Why not? Garda widows/widowers are entitled to two state pensions, sometimes more. Should all state widows/widowers not get the same?

Is it the Widows contributory pension? So based on stamps paid, in effect any widower can get it if the requisite stamps were paid?

Gumbo · 26-03-2012 10:31am

Damien360 wrote: »

But why should you get either allowance. Both of these are provided free of charge as part of your uniform. Yes you have to clean them at your cost but so does everyone else when they have uniforms and you can bet they will not get an allowance from their employer.

Sorry, your wrong there. When you are given a uniform from your employer that you have to maintain and clean, you are entitled to increased Flat Rate Expences for this as a private sector worker.

Expenses in Employment
"Flat Rate Expenses" apply in certain categories of employment.

Here are some examples of the amounts of expenses due Category of Employment Expenses Due
Carpenter 220
Pharmacists 450
Nurses (Where obliged to supply and launder their own uniform) 733
Shop Assistants 121
School Teachers 518
Waitress 64

N.B.The above list is not exhaustive. Its purpose is to give you an example of the expenses due in certain categories of employment.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/personal/circumstances/moving/sample-list-tax-credits.html

n97 mini wrote: »

With all due respect, I don't think you know anything about my father's pay and conditions.

But we can assume that he retired on a much better package than todays recruits

Interesting Public Sector comparison with NI

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