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Cowen : Henry Kissinger

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  • 17-05-2010 11:56pm
    #1
    hinault
    Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭


    It would appear that war criminal Henry Kissinger - on whom there is an international war crime arrest warrant - was in Dublin at the Four Seasons Hotel no less to attend a Trilateral Commission meeting last week.

    It would appear that the international war criminal, Kissinger, may well have met with Taoiseach Brian Cowen TD.

    There is an embedded video half way down this linked page which shows the serving of the arrest warrant to the Gardai present at the Four Seasons Hotel and a request being made to the Gardai to carry out the arrest warrant.

    The video alleges that Cowen met Kissinger.

    http://www.indymedia.ie/article/96573


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    #2
    Marshy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Marshy


    That article and video are kinda comical. Alastair Campbell would be proud of that spin.

    Conveniently doesn't mention Kissinger also won the Nobel Peace Prize.


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    #3
    hinault
    Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Regardless.

    Kissinger is a fugitive from international justice.


    And why would the leader of this country meet an indicted war criminal


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    #4
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,498 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    They didnt mind inviting terrorists like the Provos down for tea either. They meet people they consider useful to meet. Its not an honour. I mean christ, look at the leader of this country. People are doing us a favour by appearing in the same photo as him.


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    #5
    Marshy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Marshy


    Well I certainly don't think being accused of crimes automatically make one a criminal.

    Has he been charged?


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    #6
    hinault
    Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Marshy wrote: »
    Well I certainly don't think being accused of crimes automatically make one a criminal.

    Has he been charged?

    In order to be charged, an arrest warrant has to be served and the defendant arrested and brought to court to face said charges.


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    #7
    hinault
    Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Sand wrote: »
    They didnt mind inviting terrorists like the Provos down for tea either. They meet people they consider useful to meet. Its not an honour. I mean christ, look at the leader of this country. People are doing us a favour by appearing in the same photo as him.

    Not Provos with outstanding warrants though.


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    #8
    sceptre
    Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    I'm not aware of any indictment currently in effect in a criminal case charging Kissinger with war crimes. Can you link to a reputable source where one is outlined? (as a note, the Sovereign Independent won't count). Groups of people thinking he should be charged also doesn't count.

    I know he's subject to a summons in a civil case in Washington, summonsed as a witness in criminal cases in France, Spain, Argentina and Chile but is there a criminal charge active and outstanding that I don't know about?

    I'm not a fan of Kissinger and note that Le Duc Tho had the sense to refuse the Nobel Peace Prize he was co-awarded with Kissinger on the basis that the war wasn't over (while Kissinger was organising bombings of Cambodia at the same time) and I rather agree with Tom Lehrer that the day Kissinger was awarded it was effectively the death of satire. Nevertheless, I'd have met with Kissinger given the opportunity and I can understand Cowen also taking that opportunity.


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    #9
    Marshy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Marshy


    hinault wrote: »
    In order to be charged, an arrest warrant has to be served and the defendant arrested and brought to court to face said charges.
    Yes, so innocent until proven guilty in my book. Bandying around terms like "international war criminal" is wholly disingenuous in my mind, without even making a qualifying remark. Like say, "Kissinger regarded by many as a war criminal".


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    #10
    hinault
    Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    sceptre wrote: »
    I'm not aware of any indictment currently in effect in a criminal case charging Kissinger with war crimes. Can you link to a reputable source where one is outlined? (as a note, the Sovereign Independent won't count). Groups of people thinking he should be charged also doesn't count.

    I know he's subject to a summons in a civil case in Washington, summonsed as a witness in criminal cases in France, Spain, Argentina and Chile but is there a criminal charge active and outstanding that I don't know about?

    I'm not a fan of Kissinger and note that Le Duc Tho had the sense to refuse the Nobel Peace Prize he was co-awarded with Kissinger on the basis that the war wasn't over (while Kissinger was organising bombings of Cambodia at the same time) and I rather agree with Tom Lehrer that the day Kissinger was awarded it was effectively the death of satire. Nevertheless, I'd have met with Kissinger given the opportunity and I can understand Cowen also taking that opportunity.



    http://business.highbeam.com/436103/article-1G1-85019657/london-rejects-french-judge-request-question-kissinger

    "British authorities have turned down a French judge's request to question former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, a visitor in Britain, as part of an investigation into the disappearance of five French citizens during the Chilean dictatorship, sources close to the case told EFE on Tuesday.
    London also turned down a similar request from Spain's Audiencia Nacional Judge Baltasar Garzon.

    Last week, French Judge Sophie-Helene Chateau had sent an international fact-finding commission to London to question Kissenger, who will participate beginning Wednesday in a conference that takes place in the British capital"


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    #11
    sceptre
    Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    hinault wrote: »
    http://business.highbeam.com/436103/article-1G1-85019657/london-rejects-french-judge-request-question-kissinger

    "British authorities have turned down a French judge's request to question former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, a visitor in Britain, as part of an investigation into the disappearance of five French citizens during the Chilean dictatorship, sources close to the case told EFE on Tuesday.
    London also turned down a similar request from Spain's Audiencia Nacional Judge Baltasar Garzon.

    Last week, French Judge Sophie-Helene Chateau had sent an international fact-finding commission to London to question Kissenger, who will participate beginning Wednesday in a conference that takes place in the British capital"
    That'd be the summonsed as a witness in a criminal case in France that I already mentioned. It also ties into the Chile summons, same situation, also mentioned by me. That's specifically not what I'm looking for from you, for obvious reasons that it isn't an "indictment currently in effect in a criminal case charging Kissinger with war crimes." (my quote). I'm not saying one doesn't exist, just that I'm not aware of one, can't find one and you say he's subject to an "international war crime arrest warrant" (your quote), presumably in relation to his being an "indicted war criminal" (your quote). I'd be happy enough with you providing something tangiable about a national one even if you can't find an international one, even though the international one is what you've hitherto claimed. There could be one, but I don't know of one and I don't think you do either. I don't mind you taking the time to find it but without it, well, see the start of the next paragraph.

    Otherwise, this thread is starting from a false premise of fact, which fails to give a point to its existence as anything other than showboating. I don't do showboating. Nor does this forum but I'm asking as a regular joe who has a good interest in politics and post-WW2 history on the days when my memory works. I'm assuming that such an "indictment currently in effect in a criminal case charging Kissinger with war crimes." actually exists but you've got to help yourself out here. Otherwise we're just wasting electrons. If we know such an indictment exists then we can move on and actually discuss what should have been done about it. Help me help you as Cuba Gooding Jr said in Jerry Maguire, you know what you're looking for. If there's a need to start an "I don't like Kissinger and think Cowen shouldn't have met him" thread instead in the absence of the claims actually being substantiated we could do that instead, though it might be shorter (at least my contribution would be).


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    #12
    Executive Steve
    Registered Users Posts: 3,373 ✭✭✭Executive Steve


    Marshy wrote: »
    That article and video are kinda comical. Alastair Campbell would be proud of that spin.

    Conveniently doesn't mention Kissinger also won the Nobel Peace Prize.


    By all accounts even HE thought that was funny though...


    *edit*

    Think it was Tom Lehrer who upon hearing of Kissinger's Peace Prize exclaimed: "That's it! Satire is dead!"


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    #13
    hinault
    Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    sceptre wrote: »
    That'd be the summonsed as a witness in a criminal case in France that I already mentioned. It also ties into the Chile summons, same situation, also mentioned by me. That's specifically not what I'm looking for from you, for obvious reasons that it isn't an "indictment currently in effect in a criminal case charging Kissinger with war crimes." (my quote). I'm not saying one doesn't exist, just that I'm not aware of one, can't find one and you say he's subject to an "international war crime arrest warrant" (your quote), presumably in relation to his being an "indicted war criminal" (your quote). I'd be happy enough with you providing something tangiable about a national one even if you can't find an international one, even though the international one is what you've hitherto claimed. There could be one, but I don't know of one and I don't think you do either. I don't mind you taking the time to find it but without it, well, see the start of the next paragraph.

    Otherwise, this thread is starting from a false premise of fact, which fails to give a point to its existence as anything other than showboating. I don't do showboating. Nor does this forum but I'm asking as a regular joe who has a good interest in politics and post-WW2 history on the days when my memory works. I'm assuming that such an "indictment currently in effect in a criminal case charging Kissinger with war crimes." actually exists but you've got to help yourself out here. Otherwise we're just wasting electrons. If we know such an indictment exists then we can move on and actually discuss what should have been done about it. Help me help you as Cuba Gooding Jr said in Jerry Maguire, you know what you're looking for. If there's a need to start an "I don't like Kissinger and think Cowen shouldn't have met him" thread instead in the absence of the claims actually being substantiated we could do that instead, though it might be shorter (at least my contribution would be).

    I take the point that you're making.

    However we do not know the contents of the arrest warrants issued by the courts of Spain and separately France.
    We do know that the warrants pertain to death of French and Spanish citizens in Chile.
    Whether or not these arrest warrants are for charges or to obtain witness statements has to be ascertained at this point.

    I've quickly trawled in the internet and I cannot find any source to either verify or deny the content of the two international arrest warrants for the
    former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.


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