James McClean

Coillte_Bhoy · 08-02-2012 8:54am

Orando Broom wrote: »

They don't know what that's about any more. The sectarianism is a foreign construct to them. It does not have the same visceral impact at home. It's a louts preoccupation. Celtic and Rangers and the Scottish league are slowly but surely having the gloss taken off them. Take those two out and it's a shook outfit. Their golden age is over. Money will dictate where the footballers go. In a decade every young fella in the North will be more concerned with Manc and/or Scouse scum etc. to give two ****s about some tinpot league.

Yes because the memories of the civil war in the republic faded after a decade or two.:rolleyes: For god's sake the ploitical didvide is still largely based on that time and while it's at last beiginning to change, there is still some way to go.

Orando Broom wrote: »

In fact if Scotland goes independnet it will further erode and perceived influence those two have over anything because Scottish people will tire of the English/ Irish bias and simply will turn away from Rangers and Celtic.

Displaying a rather simplistic view of Scottish history and society there imo.

Paul4As · 08-02-2012 10:56am

AgileMyth wrote: »

Maik Taylor is amongst your most capped players! Proud Northern Ireland man no doubt.

Maik Taylor was born abroad...I think in Germany...so he could've played for any home nation as he possessed a British passport.
He did not play for any other international team except Northern Ireland. So he did not switch allegiance. The IFA did not take him away from England, Scotland or Wales.
There's only one Maik Taylor...one Maik Taylor!:)

Paul4As · 08-02-2012 11:02am

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

No issues at all. Just pointing out realities which you chose to ignore which is your right of course and a common trait among your ilk. So your from Mayo yet consider yourself northern irish? Jesus mate we have enough loons in Mayo as it is,we really dont need another:)

I don't ignore any realities...happy with what I am.
Mayo is a class county with sound people.
Don't tar everyone with the same brush as you use on yourself regarding the loons comment!

Thankfully the people I encounter in Mayo have respect for blow-ins from Northern Ireland.

Mr Alan · 08-02-2012 11:03am

Paul4As wrote: »

Mayo is a class county with sound people.

Doubt it tbh.

Paul4As · 08-02-2012 11:04am

bobmalooka wrote: »

Perhaps he originally wanted to represent Ni but saw first hand the non inclusive nature of the IFA.

"Perhaps" is the key word in your assumption.
You got any facts to help support your assumption.
Anything direct from James?

Paul4As · 08-02-2012 11:05am

Mr Alan wrote: »

Doubt it tbh.

Well I can only go from personal experience.
We will agree to disagree.

citytillidie · 08-02-2012 11:10am

dreamers75 wrote: »

So why play for NI as a youth? He could have said no, i doubt it furthered his career to do so.

Playing youth level in Derry you are under the IFA banner.

Its only Derry City that is under the FAI banner.

citytillidie · 08-02-2012 11:14am

sugarman wrote: »

TBH, I reckon the only reason he represented the north was because maybe he was abit young, still in Irish league & wanted to grab a shot of International football if it came his way. Of course, not knowing he would later be playing in the EPL, and well... hence being able to contend for the ROI.

He declared for the Republic while still playing in the League of Ireland way before he went to Sunderland

bobbysands81 · 08-02-2012 11:36am

Paul4As wrote: »

Whatever you say mate...:rolleyes:

It's quite simple Paul, what bit of it do you disagree with?

Anyone born on the island of Ireland is "Irish". Now it's also within anyone's right to claim that their nationality is not Irish should they wish to do so... it doesn't change the fact that they were born in Ireland.

I'm not for a second trying to deny the rights of unionists to refer to themselves as British should they want to, I'm just pointing out that they're born in Ireland.

bobmalooka · 08-02-2012 12:59pm

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

And the last time there was any instance of this was...........?

January 2011 when Niall McGinn and Paddy McCourt were sent bullets in the post.

Pro. F · 08-02-2012 1:19pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

It's quite simple Paul, what bit of it do you disagree with?

Anyone born on the island of Ireland is "Irish". Now it's also within anyone's right to claim that their nationality is not Irish should they wish to do so... it doesn't change the fact that they were born in Ireland.

I'm not for a second trying to deny the rights of unionists to refer to themselves as British should they want to, I'm just pointing out that they're born in Ireland.

You recognise that Northern Ireland exists as some kind of entity yes? It's not in any way unreasonable for people, like Unionists for example, to call themselves Northern Irish as opposed to Irish. Technicalities are irrelevant when all the words used are complicated by history and association.

Saying that technically Northern Ireland is part of Ireland so they are technically Irish, even when that is clearly grinding someone's gears, is being a dick about it.

The Good Friday Agreement deals with the technicalities of passports and being British or Irish citizens or both. Common courtesy is what's required to deal with the more fuzzy areas like how people refer to themselves.

AgileMyth · 08-02-2012 1:34pm

Paul4As wrote: »

Maik Taylor was born abroad...I think in Germany...so he could've played for any home nation as he possessed a British passport.
He did not play for any other international team except Northern Ireland. So he did not switch allegiance. The IFA did not take him away from England, Scotland or Wales.
There's only one Maik Taylor...one Maik Taylor!:)

Ah see the IFA never clarified this. So its ok to take players from other countries as long as they're not very good?

Paul4As · 08-02-2012 1:40pm

Pro. F wrote: »

You recognise that Northern Ireland exists as some kind of entity yes? It's not in any way unreasonable for people, like Unionists for example, to call themselves Northern Irish as opposed to Irish. Technicalities are irrelevant when all the words used are complicated by history and association.

Saying that technically Northern Ireland is part of Ireland so they are technically Irish, even when that is clearly grinding someone's gears, is being a dick about it.

The Good Friday Agreement deals with the technicalities of passports and being British or Irish citizens or both. Common courtesy is what's required to deal with the more fuzzy areas like how people refer to themselves.

This could may be a starter for a thread on another sub forum than Soccer.

I'm actually bored with debating this issue, but at the same time amused by some of the opinions on here about Northern Ireland, Ireland, Republic of Ireland, being Irish or British etc.

As long as we all know what we are...who cares what others rightly or wrongly think!

Paul4As · 08-02-2012 1:43pm

AgileMyth wrote: »

Ah see the IFA never clarified this. So its ok to take players from other countries as long as they're not very good?

Maik Taylor was far from "not very good".
We didn't take him from any other country. I don't think any of the home nations were that keen on him.
Where did I say on this thread that the Republic taking James McClean was wrong...can you point me to the post???
I even wished the lad all the best for the future!
Your post has baffled me???

Warper · 08-02-2012 1:47pm

Lets just concentrate on James McClean and stop the NI v Irish buzz as we will get nowhere.

Paul4As · 08-02-2012 1:50pm

bobmalooka wrote: »

January 2011 when Niall McGinn and Paddy McCourt were sent bullets in the post.

Who were they sent bullets by?

A Northern Ireland supporters club!:)
If an individual Man Utd supporter was to send a Liverpool player a bullet in the post...would that say anything overall about all 99.9999% of Man Utd supporters?...not really.
Thankfully McCourt and McGinn both continue to play for Northern Ireland...they both know that their efforts are appreciated by 99.9999% of the fans.

bobbysands81 · 08-02-2012 2:02pm

Warper wrote: »

Lets just concentrate on James McClean and stop the NI v Irish buzz as we will get nowhere.

But the whole "NI v Irish buzz" is the crux of this thread mate.

bobbysands81 · 08-02-2012 2:07pm

Pro. F wrote: »

You recognise that Northern Ireland exists as some kind of entity yes? It's not in any way unreasonable for people, like Unionists for example, to call themselves Northern Irish as opposed to Irish. Technicalities are irrelevant when all the words used are complicated by history and association.

Saying that technically Northern Ireland is part of Ireland so they are technically Irish, even when that is clearly grinding someone's gears, is being a dick about it.

The Good Friday Agreement deals with the technicalities of passports and being British or Irish citizens or both. Common courtesy is what's required to deal with the more fuzzy areas like how people refer to themselves.

I think you're completely missing my point.

Ireland is an island that consists of two jurisdictions, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. Ireland does not equate to the Republic of Ireland but the entire island.

I fully agree with you regarding a unionists right to consider themselves Northern Irish, British whatever they want, that is their right.

However, that doesn't change the fact that if they were born on the geographical island known as Ireland that they could be termed Irish... and many of them consider themselves "Irish" in this sense. The Irish Football Association. The Grand Loyal Lodge of Ireland etc...

I fail to see how I'm being a "dick" or how I'm not showing "common courtesy".

bobmalooka · 08-02-2012 2:12pm

Paul4As wrote: »

Who were they sent bullets by? A Northern Ireland supporters club!:)
If an individual Man Utd supporter was to send a Liverpool player a bullet in the post...would that say anything overall about all 99.9999% of Man Utd supporters?...not really.
Thankfully McCourt and McGinn both continue to play for Northern Ireland...they both know that their efforts are appreciated by 99.9999% of the fans.

Ok so if the abuse and threats are anonymous theres no problem then.

You can get into semantics all you like but there is a history of abuse and intimidation directed towards players from nationalist backgrounds.

Of course thats not reflective of all NI fans

Stamp it out and ye can have a team truely representative of all of Northern Ireland, a team which everyone north of the border can be proud to play for/support or continue to pretend there is no problem and drive a significant proportion of your players down south.

The proof is in the pudding.

Thats all I have to say about that.

Back on topic McClean will need to play to a high standard right untill the euros to have any chance of making the squad, Trap is rightly loyal to the players who give him everything but Hunts lack of form could open the door.

Coillte_Bhoy · 08-02-2012 2:42pm

bobmalooka wrote: »

January 2011 when Niall McGinn and Paddy McCourt were sent bullets in the post.

I am well aware of that disgraceful incident but what i was really asking was when was there any such abuse directed at players in windsor park? See i despise that team, but i do recognize that huge improvements have been made in regard to treatment of players form the nationalist community at windsor park. it seems to me some people prefer to ignore this reality

Pro. F · 08-02-2012 2:46pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I think you're completely missing my point.

Ireland is an island that consists of two jurisdictions, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. Ireland does not equate to the Republic of Ireland but the entire island.

I fully agree with you regarding a unionists right to consider themselves Northern Irish, British whatever they want, that is their right.

However, that doesn't change the fact that if they were born on the geographical island known as Ireland that they could be termed Irish... and many of them consider themselves "Irish" in this sense. The Irish Football Association. The Grand Loyal Lodge of Ireland etc...

I fail to see how I'm being a "dick" or how I'm not showing "common courtesy".

Obviously I'm not missing your point. But you are arguing a geographical technicality with someone who clearly wants to self identify as Northern Irish rather than Irish. Arguing that technicality rather than just leaving him off, considering the context of the discussion, is extremely dickish behaviour.

And you're dead right about many Unionists considering themselves Irish in the way you describe, but many is not the same as all.

Coillte_Bhoy · 08-02-2012 2:47pm

Paul4As wrote: »

I don't ignore any realities...happy with what I am.
Mayo is a class county with sound people.
Don't tar everyone with the same brush as you use on yourself regarding the loons comment!
Thankfully the people I encounter in Mayo have respect for blow-ins from Northern Ireland.

Yes i'm the only loon in Mayo.:) And why wouldn't we have respect for you? If following NI doesnt cause you enough suffering start following the mayo gaa team, then you'll know what real pain is.:(

bobbysands81 · 08-02-2012 2:48pm

Pro. F wrote: »

Obviously I'm not missing your point. But you are arguing a geographical technicality with someone who clearly wants to self identify as Northern Irish rather than Irish. Arguing that technicality rather than just leaving him off, considering the context of the discussion, is extremely dickish behaviour.

And you're dead right about many Unionists considering themselves Irish in the way you describe, but many is not the same as all.

So basically I'm being a "dick" but you're agreeing with me.

Ok so...

Pro. F · 08-02-2012 2:59pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

So basically I'm being a "dick" but you're agreeing with me.

Ok so...

Having trouble following a simple discussion now? That's handy for you isn't it. Here's the recap for you so:

Arguing geographical technicalities with a fella because he wants to call himself Northern Irish rather than Irish - I think that's being a dick.

Stating that a lot of Unionists refer to themselves as Irish - I think that's true.

bobbysands81 · 08-02-2012 4:18pm

Pro. F wrote: »

Having trouble following a simple discussion now? That's handy for you isn't it. Here's the recap for you so:

Arguing geographical technicalities with a fella because he wants to call himself Northern Irish rather than Irish - I think that's being a dick.

Stating that a lot of Unionists refer to themselves as Irish - I think that's true.

I have absolutely no problem with someone from the north referring to themselves as Northern Irish, it is their undisputable right.

However, this does not negate the fact they're born on the island of Ireland.

Finally, that's now three times that you've played the man and not the ball on this thread.

EdenHazard · 08-02-2012 4:50pm

How does a thread end up like this? Just talk about the player for **** sake

Pro. F · 08-02-2012 4:52pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I have absolutely no problem with someone from the north referring to themselves as Northern Irish, it is their undisputable right.

However, this does not negate the fact they're born on the island of Ireland.

Finally, that's now three times that you've played the man and not the ball on this thread.

I am ''playing the man and not the ball'' by saying you are acting like a dick because you are acting like a dick. I could hardly say you are acting like a dick without referring to you.

Your continuing attempt to try and wriggle away from the argument is funny. Carry on.

SlipperyPeople · 08-02-2012 5:20pm

these threads are always the worst. just ends up people bickering.

anywaaaaays. I think McCLean should be given a chance for Ireland since his performances for sunderland who are playing well at the moment have been good. Certainly hes standing out then most other irish players in the prem at the moment

bobbysands81 · 08-02-2012 5:36pm

Pro. F wrote: »

I am ''playing the man and not the ball'' by saying you are acting like a dick because you are acting like a dick. I could hardly say you are acting like a dick without referring to you.

Your continuing attempt to try and wriggle away from the argument is funny. Carry on.

You're arguing with yourself at this stage mate, I'm not getting dragged into your name calling game.

My point stands, anyone from the island of Ireland is, by definition, from Ireland.

Ireland is NOT the Republic of Ireland which many think but is the Republic AND the north.

I wouldn't have thought that anyone in the world could have disputed those facts but you obviously do.

Pro. F · 08-02-2012 7:22pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

My point stands, anyone from the island of Ireland is, by definition, from Ireland.

And arguing that geographical technicality with a guy because he wants to refer to himself as Northern Irish rather than Irish is still acting like a dick.

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Ireland is NOT the Republic of Ireland which many think but is the Republic AND the north.

I wouldn't have thought that anyone in the world could have disputed those facts but you obviously do.

Where have I disputed those facts with you? Stop pretending that my argument is something other than it is.

James McClean

Comments