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Is the Mixed-Goods Train Coming Back?

  • 31-03-2011 4:38pm
    #1
    OurLadyofKnock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 ✭✭✭




    Iarnród Eireann has space on some of its Intercity services that it is considering making available to an interested party (parties) on a contract basis. The services concerned are:
    - Dublin to Cork: departures every hour in both directions
    - Dublin to Belfast: departures approximately every 2 hours in both directions
    The space available is sufficient to accommodate 3 to 4 standard size transport cages on most of these services. A methodology for the transport of items, handling then to and from trains, security scanning and interacting with rail operations would be developed as part of the process of getting to an agreed contract.
    Parties interested in being considered for a possible contract award are asked to complete the attached as part of the prequalification process. Qualifying parties will then be issued with tender documents giving them the opportunity to present their proposed methodology and commercial offer to the Company.



    Sounds like there previous "business" decision to stop parcel sevice is backfiring on them.


Comments

  • #2
    Mongarra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Mongarra


    Sounds to me like they should cut back on the number of trains. Is there demand for Dublin - Cork or Cork - Dublin every hour and likewise Belfast every 2 hours.

    Bus Eireann started Rosslare (Harbour) - Dublin (Airport) every hour after local Wexford bus company set up similar service but when I see buses on the route they are invariably less than half full, except maybe Fridays, Sunday evenings.


  • #3
    OurLadyofKnock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 ✭✭✭OurLadyofKnock


    Mongarra wrote: »
    Sounds to me like they should cut back on the number of trains. Is there demand for Dublin - Cork or Cork - Dublin every hour and likewise Belfast every 2 hours.
    Sunday evenings.

    Are you serious? That would be like the worst thing they could do. Nobody at all would use it then.

    Using spare train capacity for parcel service or light good makes much more sense on many levels.


  • #4
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Fastrack was outrageously expensive before its demise so can you imagine what it would cost operated by a third party? It would end up like Rail Gourmet's 'catering service'. Anyway, much as I was a great advocate for Fastrack, I now believe its day is done such has been the explosion in courier services - even in the couple of years since it was abandoned - and price wise a new third party operation will not be able to compete with the road alternative.


  • #5
    OurLadyofKnock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 ✭✭✭OurLadyofKnock


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Fastrack was outrageously expensive before its demise so can you imagine what it would cost operated by a third party? It would end up like Rail Gourmet's 'catering service'. Anyway, much as I was a great advocate for Fastrack, I now believe its day is done such has been the explosion in courier services - even in the couple of years since it was abandoned - and price wise a new third party operation will not be able to compete with the road alternative.

    Then what are they thinking with this idea? Or have they just gone completely ape****?


  • #6
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Fastrack was outrageously expensive before its demise so can you imagine what it would cost operated by a third party? It would end up like Rail Gourmet's 'catering service'. Anyway, much as I was a great advocate for Fastrack, I now believe its day is done such has been the explosion in courier services - even in the couple of years since it was abandoned - and price wise a new third party operation will not be able to compete with the road alternative.

    Sorry JD, have to disagree somewhat. Its day is not done by any means. There is no explosion in courier services. In fact the courier business is struggling in a lot of quarters, particularly same day long distance runs, because they are very expensive. For example if you decide you need to get a parcel from Dublin to Cork city same day, Fastrack was ideal in terms of cost for the station to station run. The same for Belfast. The alternative courier cost for Cork same day would be in the region of €400. (albeit door to door) Fastracks same day Door to Door service didn't even cost that much, but was restricted.

    It always amazed me that IE got rid of Fastrack just as the business community were revising how they shipped goods nationally. Same day courier runs became overnights as a result of better advanced planning and a lack of Fastrack.

    It looks to me like IE got rid of fastrack as part of its so called streamlining process as passenger numbers grew. Now that the passenger numbers are down they are trying to recoup income by offering the Cork and Belfast routes up to potential parcel operators because the trains are geared up for it. But will it work in private hands? It can if the pitch it right. However shame on them for abandoning Fastrack in the first place.


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  • #7
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    OurLadyofKnock wrote: »
    Then what are they thinking with this idea? Or have they just gone completely ape****?

    No. They need income and they've realised the potential to carry parcels on the Cork and Belfast routes. Of course they can't do it on any other route because they ordered trains that couldn't facilitate it.:rolleyes:

    Siemens Ireland were one of their biggest customers. They shipped ATM parts nationwide to engineers Mon - Fri on every route. The courier brought it to Heuston or Connolly and the engineer picked it up at the station nearest the area he/she was working in. On Saturdays a standby courier delivered it to either Dublin station. On Sundays a courier was booked for early Monday morning to deliver to either depot. Virtually every major business in Dublin used Fastrack and I know that for a fact. So go figure.


  • #8
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    DW - I beg to differ. Only last week I came across an item in the local paper where a mail order business in the town had taken a court case against a courier for a parcel that had been stolen - I'll post article tomorrow. Anyway, she had been sending parcels with the company for a pittance. This town is full of couriers (GLS, DHL and numerous private hackers) and while they may be fighting over scraps, they are still in business. My point about Fastrack always has been that it was a shambles as operated by CIE/IE - for decades - and whatever chance a revamped, and extremely limited, service would have I can't see how the prices would be sustainable to satisfy both a greedy, unrealistic CIE/IE plus a private operator needing to make a profit. If it restarts through some, apparently fair, tendering process I wouldn't be surprised if more brown envelopes were involved or if it ends up run by the brother-in-law of some Area Manager. :rolleyes:


  • #9
    OurLadyofKnock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 ✭✭✭OurLadyofKnock


    DWCommuter wrote: »

    It looks to me like IE got rid of fastrack as part of its so called streamlining process as passenger numbers grew. Now that the passenger numbers are down they are trying to recoup income by offering the Cork and Belfast routes up to potential parcel operators because the trains are geared up for it. But will it work in private hands? It can if the pitch it right. However shame on them for abandoning Fastrack in the first place.


    I agree. Another issue is that you can get a huge number of parcels in one carraige. That a serious bit of cash to help tart up per train revenue.

    Part of me is wondering it this is also a sleight-of-hand to bring the MarkIIIs back into service. It could justify a restoration/refurbishment spend and getting back parcels revienue without them looking like complete two-time morons.


  • #10
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    DW - I beg to differ. Only last week I came across an item in the local paper where a mail order business in the town had taken a court case against a courier for a parcel that had been stolen - I'll post article tomorrow. Anyway, she had been sending parcels with the company for a pittance. This town is full of couriers (GLS, DHL and numerous private hackers) and while they may be fighting over scraps, they are still in business.

    All overnight services (GLS and DHL) or pre booked same day services with local couriers who do a daily run so can charge a "pittance" based on volume, but lack the ability that Fastrack had to be a turn up and send, same day service. These all existed for years and years before Fastrack went to the wall. I know the courier business inside out. It made a lot of money out of Fastrack and suffered pain when it was shut down.

    As for brown envelopes, I don't know, but Fastrack could have and should have been retained as it was a very popular method of sending goods for some very major multinationals and Irish businesses. How was it a shambles? Apart from rude, shoddy staff and smelly neglected depots in Heuston and Connolly.


  • #11
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    OurLadyofKnock wrote: »
    Part of me is wondering it this is also a sleight-of-hand to bring the MarkIIIs back into service. It could justify a restoration/refurbishment spend and getting back parcels revienue without them looking like complete two-time morons.

    mk3 vans in operation (or will be) on the Ent
    The DVTs on the cork route will have space also won't they.

    Can't see a reason (unfortunitly) to bring back the mk3.
    Apart from the fact we clearly cannot afford the next batches of the 22ks


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  • #12
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    mk3 vans in operation (or will be) on the Ent
    The DVTs on the cork route will have space also won't they.

    Can't see a reason (unfortunitly) to bring back the mk3.
    Apart from the fact we clearly cannot afford the next batches of the 22ks

    I think they are just trying to utilise the space on the MK4s and Enterprise and do it via a private contractor. I seriously doubt they are thinking of reintroducing the MK3s after they made such a great job of sterilising the network by abandoning them.


  • #13
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    All overnight services (GLS and DHL) or pre booked same day services with local couriers who do a daily run so can charge a "pittance" based on volume, but lack the ability that Fastrack had to be a turn up and send, same day service. These all existed for years and years before Fastrack went to the wall. I know the courier business inside out. It made a lot of money out of Fastrack and suffered pain when it was shut down.

    As for brown envelopes, I don't know, but Fastrack could have and should have been retained as it was a very popular method of sending goods for some very major multinationals and Irish businesses. How was it a shambles?

    Derek - you may know the courier business inside out but I also have a had a very bit of experience of same and I'm telling you it has mushroomed in this neck of the woods. As for why Fastrack was a shambles - how long have you got? I haven't long because I'm struggling with my PP bets for tomorrow morning's Super Rugby. So, two examples from the Rosslare line that stick in my mind. At the time the service was ended on this route it was cheaper to travel with your package to Dublin than to send the package on its own - figure that one out. On another occasion, for pure devilment, I decided to entrap a member of staff at Bray Station to see what he knew of the service. I asked him did he know whether it was possible to send a parcel by Fastrack from Bray. He looked puzzled, you could hear cogs turning and then he mumbled 'is that the parcel thing' - I kid you not. He went on to explain that he thought that you could send a parcel to Bray for collection but, as far as he knew, you couldn't send one from there! As it happens you could do neither - Bray population (30,000+) and you tell me it wasn't a shambles. As for Dun Laoghaire, a ferry port and population (circa 130,000) - no Fastrack - yet a God forsaken kip like Dromod (population 200) had a service - albeit operating out of a derelict shed! Which, when I left the C&L in 1998, had had uncollected parcels lying rotting in it for years. I have no doubt that I've been in more Fastrack offices in far flung corners of the CIE Empire than you've had hot dinners. Not wishing to cast aspersions on your goodself but when I say it was a shambles I mean it. Now I must go, as being a mere male multi tasking is beyond me and PP awaits. Goodnight.:D


  • #14
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Derek - you may know the courier business inside out but I also have a had a very bit of experience of same and I'm telling you it has mushroomed in this neck of the woods. As for why Fastrack was a shambles - how long have you got? I haven't long because I'm struggling with my PP bets for tomorrow morning's Super Rugby. So, two examples from the Rosslare line that stick in my mind. At the time the service was ended on this route it was cheaper to travel with your package to Dublin than to send the package on its own - figure that one out. On another occasion, for pure devilment, I decided to entrap a member of staff at Bray Station to see what he knew of the service. I asked him did he know whether it was possible to send a parcel by Fastrack from Bray. He looked puzzled, you could hear cogs turning and then he mumbled 'is that the parcel thing' - I kid you not. He went on to explain that he thought that you could send a parcel to Bray for collection but, as far as he knew, you couldn't send one from there! As it happens you could do neither - Bray population (30,000+) and you tell me it wasn't a shambles. As for Dun Laoghaire, a ferry port and population (circa 130,000) - no Fastrack - yet a God forsaken kip like Dromod (population 200) had a service - albeit operating out of a derelict shed! Which, when I left the C&L in 1998, had had uncollected parcels lying rotting in it for years. I have no doubt that I've been in more Fastrack offices in far flung corners of the CIE Empire than you've had hot dinners. Not wishing to cast aspersions on your goodself but when I say it was a shambles I mean it. Now I must go, as being a mere male multi tasking is beyond me and PP awaits. Goodnight.:D


    Jaysus thats some post!:D I'll come back to it with my views. (and as usual I have many) Maybe tomorrow night or Saturday but for now I have to get my beauty sleep as tomorrow I must serve my country and play my part in keeping whats left of our economy going. But you're not off the hook yet!:D

    PS. When I saw my name attached to your post, I knew the debating scale had shot out the top! As you used to say, "I'll be back!"


  • #15
    CIE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    OurLadyofKnock wrote: »
    Iarnród Eireann has space on some of its Intercity services that it is considering making available to an interested party (parties) on a contract basis. The services concerned are:
    • Dublin to Cork: departures every hour in both directions
    • Dublin to Belfast: departures approximately every 2 hours in both directions
    The space available is sufficient to accommodate 3 to 4 standard size transport cages on most of these services. A methodology for the transport of items, handling then to and from trains, security scanning and interacting with rail operations would be developed as part of the process of getting to an agreed contract.
    Parties interested in being considered for a possible contract award are asked to complete the attached as part of the prequalification process. Qualifying parties will then be issued with tender documents giving them the opportunity to present their proposed methodology and commercial offer to the Company.
    Sounds like their previous "business" decision to stop parcel sevice is backfiring on them.
    Lots of things are backfiring. This might just be the tip of the iceberg.


  • #16
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    the Iceberg might just sink the titanic that is CIE


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