Has the iPhone 4 surpassed the Desire? (And all Android Phones?)

cormie · 10-06-2010 2:27am #1

Just curious, from a non fanboy perspective, has the iPhone 4 surpassed the HTC Desire, or in fact, all current Android/HTC models?

Besides having to put up with iTunes and all the restrictiveness apple is known for, hardware wise has it come out trumps here?

I know for me, the HTC Desire was definitely the top choice for what I need a phone to do and more, but is the new iPhone now just as good and even better?

Not looking for a fanboy debate, just the facts

partyatmygaff · 10-06-2010 2:43am

The iPhone 4G is only slightly better than the Desire hardware wise but imo it still lacks a lot software wise.

The only things it has over the Desire...

A much higher res screen (Although it is only IPS TFT rather than AMOLED)
Front camera
A slightly more powerful cpu (About 10%) although with an overclocked kernel the Desire can compete at almost equal performance

The Desire however
Has 576MB of Ram compared to the 256MB of Ram found on the iPhone 4 (But who needs ram when you don't have multitasking

)
Larger screen
Not entirely made of glass
Far more hardware buttons
Doesn't use a propertiary interface
Not an iPhone

Brian · 10-06-2010 4:21am

I suspect the iPhone's A4 might be underclocked to about 800 MHz for battery considerations. The reason it's so snappy is just software optimization. So I would guess it's close to the power of a Snapdragon, but with a significantly more powerful GPU, since the 3GS was already more powerful than the Adreno in the Snapdragon setup.

I'm glad the iPhone is so well specced because hopefully it will drag Android up from the WVGA/1 GHz level it has paused at right now.

djgaillimh · 10-06-2010 6:54am

No, it hasn't. It's a good phone, with a couple of nice features, but it's full of the usual Apple gimmicks and buzzwords designed to obscure the fact that the tech is not particularly advanced.

VGA front camera, 256MB RAM, possibly underclocked CPU (we won't know until people test it) a screen that's only 5% sharper than AMOLED but draws 30% more power and 'up to' 30fps 720p video recording (which could mean anything, really).

Plus it's still got the iPhone OS. And if you didn't like the dull, unimaginative rows of app icons before, you're not about to change your mind for this model.

And don't forget that by the end of the year there will be Android phones with dual core 1.5GHz processors which draw 20% less power than the Snapdragon, running on the Gingerbread build of Android.

Steve Jobs can iSuck my balls.

edit: the one thing that annoys me about all this is that now HTC and every other manufacturer are going to start including redundant, low-quality front-facing cameras, because the technologically illiterate will now demand them. That's a little bit of space that could be put to better use, imo.

EasyBoy1974 · 10-06-2010 7:48am

djgaillimh wrote: »

Steve Jobs can iSuck my balls.

Hahahaha! you made coffee come out of my nose!

cormie · 10-06-2010 8:03am

thanks for the input. I guess hearing the differences back doesn't make it sound better at all really.

I thought OS 4 was going to introduce multitasking though so once that's out, that won't be an issue? You're right though about the app lists, having the widgets and everything on my HTC is brilliant for me, just being able to swipe to the left to look at my calendar while I'm on a phonecall to somebody to check a date, or being able to simply swipe to the right to look at my emails is brilliant and I definitely wouldn't like the iphone UI in comparison.

I've had front facing cameras on some phones before and even if the networks here were set up for it, I don't think I'd ever want to use it anyway! It may come in handy one in every 5,000 phone calls if you need somebodies advice on something or other you're looking at but I can't imagine people will want to get on camera when they've just woken up/driving/in the toilet/cooking etc.

The hardware buttons are also a big plus for the desire.

I know myself that the desire for me is definitely better and I'm sure for a lot of people who don't know about it, it would be too, with the 3Gs it was easy to advise people to opt for the much better choice of HTC, with the 4, it may be a bit more difficult even if it still suits their needs better.

Can you choose to sync one group only on the iPhone?

heebusjeebus · 10-06-2010 8:55am

There are definately a few wins for the iPhone (longer battery life and Wireless N) but when you are so hamstrung as to what you can do with the fone, it just isnt worth bothering about.
I think the people here using Android would have a hard time with an iPhone as we're so used to the "freedom" to do what we want with our devices.
iPhones are just smartphones for the tech-illiterate.

cormie · 10-06-2010 9:00am

What's wireless N?

Is the iPhone 4 battery replaceable as the Desires is?

heebusjeebus · 10-06-2010 9:05am

cormie wrote: »

Is the iPhone 4 battery replaceable as the Desires is?

Good point, well made :-)

djgaillimh · 10-06-2010 9:08am

cormie wrote: »

Is the iPhone 4 battery replaceable as the Desires is?

Absolutely. For the bargain price of $79 (minus shipping). Oh and you can't do it yourself or you'll void the warranty, so you'll also be without a phone for two weeks.

cormie · 10-06-2010 9:12am

actually, does anyone know where you can get a replacement battery for the desire? Would be handy to have one! Or a few if they are cheap enough

Del2005 · 10-06-2010 9:18am

cormie wrote: »

I've had front facing cameras on some phones before and even if the networks here were set up for it, I don't think I'd ever want to use it anyway! It may come in handy one in every 5,000 phone calls if you need somebodies advice on something or other you're looking at but I can't imagine people will want to get on camera when they've just woken up/driving/in the toilet/cooking etc.

It only works on wifi

Inquitus · 10-06-2010 9:35am

I question the need for Wireless N tbh on a phone as things stand today.

You can stream 720p, which imo is the max res you'd ever want to consider on the iphones 3.x" screen, perfectly well over Wireless G.

Wireless G is faster than your internet, so N offers nothing over G in that regard.

And the iPhone is genreally not intended for moving large files around over your wifi which is what N really shines at.

Abelloid · 10-06-2010 9:42am

Nice hardware, shame about the software..

S.M.B. · 10-06-2010 9:45am

cormie wrote: »

actually, does anyone know where you can get a replacement battery for the desire? Would be handy to have one! Or a few if they are cheap enough

Still waiting on Clove to send out mine which I ordered along with my Desire.

:mad:

Captain Chaos · 10-06-2010 9:53am

Del2005 wrote: »

It only works on wifi

Thats because no mobile carriers support the feature yet on iphone. That will change next year.

Still though, I got my 3gs around 4 months ago and I can't see myself going to the next model in a years time, iphone 5 whatever. You have to jailbreak an iphone to open it up.

I'll be considering the latest HTC model in 8 months or so when my contract is up over a new iphone. I think the Android platform has alot more going for it and far more potential than the Apple iOS in the long run.

cormie · 10-06-2010 10:07am

cormie wrote: »

actually, does anyone know where you can get a replacement battery for the desire? Would be handy to have one! Or a few if they are cheap enough

Jaysus, if this is the right one, and a good one, it's a lot cheaper than I imagined it to be! http://www.amazon.co.uk/FoneM8-1400mAh-Battery-Lifetime-Warranty/dp/B003L08FAI/ref=sr_1_1/277-1668806-3122350?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1276160770&sr=8-1

Anyone know if that would be decent? Better/Worse than the stock included one?

Sanjuro · 10-06-2010 10:08am

While 720p sounds impressive on paper, I've never found the idea of high-res video on a phone that much of a draw. It's a phone. I never intend to watch any decent movie on a screen that's small enough to fit into my pocket. And for youtube clips, they don't really require resolution that high. The iPhone 4 really isn't that impressive. It's a polished turd. Nothing more.

justsomebloke · 10-06-2010 10:16am

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/07/iphone-4-vs-the-smartphone-elite-evo-4g-n8-pre-plus-and-hd2/

Gives a pretty good comparison of the top phones currently out.

That said dual core 1.2 snapdragon processors are now being shipped (to who though is another question) so we should be finally starting to see more powerful android phones soon enough and as stated already dual core 1.5 processors may be here by christmas.

Couple that with the fact that I think android 2.2 is better then iOS 4 and that Gingerbread (due about christmas as well) should be an even better step up I think that by end of year the iphone maybe quiet easily surpassed by a number of better phones.

Venom · 10-06-2010 10:18am

The iphone 4 is a really cool looking phone but the fact its mostly made out of glass would make me paranoid about it getting damaged.

The OS really needs an update at this point but I honestly don't see this ever happening due to the fact Apple like to keep things simple so dummies can use it. The new hi res screen looks sweet but is it really going to make that big a difference on a 3 inch screen compared to current smartphone displays which are no slouch in the looks department?

The hype about the front facing camera is lost on me tbh due to having this feature on my last 3 phones and never using it nor did anyone else I know. Apple have amazing PR and will hype up under a new name features that other phones have had for years as the greatest thing ever.

The fact its such a closed system in both apps and customization is another major downside as far as Im concerned.

Keano · 10-06-2010 10:22am

Well I had my heart set on buying the Desire this weekend and when I heard the iphone 4 was being released I thought that might change my mind...it didn't.

After watching the launch I could have slapped myself for even considering it

Abelloid · 10-06-2010 10:28am

cormie wrote: »

actually, does anyone know where you can get a replacement battery for the desire? Would be handy to have one! Or a few if they are cheap enough

http://www.mugen-power-batteries.com/mugen-power-extended-battery-for-htc-desire-a8181-with-battery-cover-in-brown-3200mah.html

I have a desktop cradle/charger that takes a second battery, but I haven't bought (or to be honest, needed) one yet.

Inquitus · 10-06-2010 10:32am

720p Recording - Phones are good for snapping video of your mates while you are on the piss, nothing more really. There is no optical zoom, and anything more than a few feet away gradually becomes a spec on the screen.

720p Playback - Whilst 720p playback looks great on my iPad, I question the need for it on an iPhone with a 3.x" Screen, especially given its comes in at around 1.5Gb per hour. And it comes with all the usual iPhone caveats such as having to convert it to mp4 to play it and the fact that HD takes much longer to re-encode then SD.

Video Calling - Wifi only, so meh, if you are at home and like video calling use your PC and a webcam. My N95 had this years ago, it was fun the one time I used it....and it worked on 3G back then......not just wifi

Wireless N - I question the need for Wireless N tbh on a phone as things stand today. You can stream 720p, which imo is the max res you'd ever want to consider on the iphones 3.x" screen, perfectly well over Wireless G. Wireless G is faster than your internet, so N offers nothing over G in that regard. And the iPhone is genreally not intended for moving large files around over your wifi which is what N really shines at.

iMovie - like seriously who's gonna edit movie on their phone? I have an iPad with iWorks - notes, numbers and keynote, and bar reading MS Office stuff on the go, there is no way on earth I use the crippled inputs of an iPad / iPhone for creating Spreadsheets, Presentations or Word Docs. the same will hold true for the iPhone and iMovie, but unlike the ipad, you'll have to try and edit movies on a screen 4 times or so smaller.

axer · 10-06-2010 10:35am

I like the idea of having a front facing camera, even if it is just for skype when i'm on wifi. Granted I had one on my old N95 but never used it but I think that is because there was never an app that I found that could use it for skype/fring/gizmodo etc.

I do a lot of tasks on my htc desire that I used to use my laptop for so using it for skype would be another one.

Whether I would use it enough to justify it is another story.

partyatmygaff · 10-06-2010 12:14pm

axer wrote: »

I like the idea of having a front facing camera, even if it is just for skype when i'm on wifi. Granted I had one on my old N95 but never used it but I think that is because there was never an app that I found that could use it for skype/fring/gizmodo etc.

I do a lot of tasks on my htc desire that I used to use my laptop for so using it for skype would be another one.

Whether I would use it enough to justify it is another story.

Not to mention that vga cameras make for one horrible webcam.

00sully · 10-06-2010 12:17pm

Inquitus wrote: »

I question the need for Wireless N tbh on a phone as things stand today.

You can stream 720p, which imo is the max res you'd ever want to consider on the iphones 3.x" screen, perfectly well over Wireless G.

Wireless G is faster than your internet, so N offers nothing over G in that regard.

well wireless N increases the range of G to another couple of hundred meters (under ideal conditions) which is not to be sniffed at.

I thought I read somewhere that the nexus/desire actually have N radio on the chip just not enabled?

yimrsg · 10-06-2010 1:20pm

iPhone vs. Android Showdown: Which Phone Is Best for Power Users?

http://lifehacker.com/5559357/iphone-vs-android-showdown-which-phone-is-best-for-power-users

The result was

13:11 to Android

Few points I have with the scoring system, the multitasking category one is a bit silly as he gives it a tie despite iOS not having true multitasking and downplays the battery life of androids again despite having it already marked down in another separate category.

Web browsing category was also a bit controversial to me as the whole adobe flash issue wasn't considered a major scoring point. Still he does admit the whole score system was power user orientated.

axer · 10-06-2010 1:30pm

yimrsg wrote: »

iPhone vs. Android Showdown: Which Phone Is Best for Power Users?

http://lifehacker.com/5559357/iphone-vs-android-showdown-which-phone-is-best-for-power-users

The result was
13:11 to Android

Few points I have with the scoring system, the multitasking category one is a bit silly as he gives it a tie despite iOS not having true multitasking and downplays the battery life of androids again despite having it already marked down in another separate category.

Web browsing category was also a bit controversial to me as the whole adobe flash issue wasn't considered a major scoring point. Still he does admit the whole score system was power user orientated.

I think it is pretty clear that Android is for power users and iPhone for non techy people who are happy to sacrifice control over simplistic use (although I would argue that the HTC Desire is simple to use).

Brian · 10-06-2010 3:48pm

I think a lot of people like Android because the handsets are generally cheaper, too.

Inquitus · 10-06-2010 3:52pm

The new O2 iphone tariffs are out in the UK

http://shop.o2.co.uk/new-iphone/tariffs.html

They are fecking horrific! usually the Uk provides better value than Ireland, I hate to see what tariffs they demand for iPhone 4 here!

S.M.B. · 10-06-2010 4:31pm

It's arrival has forced O2 UK to change their Unlimited Data allowance too. I'm not impressed.

From October I'll be limited to 500 MB on my Desire and it's an extra £5 to top it up by another 500MB.

Had to download 3G watchdog today in preparation.

drunkmonkey · 10-06-2010 4:39pm

Inquitus wrote: »

The new O2 iphone tariffs are out in the UK

http://shop.o2.co.uk/new-iphone/tariffs.html

They are fecking horrific! usually the Uk provides better value than Ireland, I hate to see what tariffs they demand for iPhone 4 here!

There not that bad, 65 quid for unlimited calls and 1GB of internet,

Bluefoam · 10-06-2010 5:43pm

Hey all, have you not heard, Apple have invented a brand new must have app called Video Calling!!! :eek::eek::eek:

Its so cool. If it had been available for the past 10 years there would be millions of people using it all over the planet! But because Apple just thought of it now it will be the new reason to get a new phone!!!

Because Apple respect their customers so much and wanted to give back to them, they have decided that you will only be able to use it between two iPhones, so all your friends will need to have iPhone G4's too & it won't use up any of your data bundle or call minutes because Apple have (kindly) made it so that it will only work over Wi-Fi.

What a useful ****ing app!!!

Victor_M · 10-06-2010 6:26pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

Hey all, have you not heard, Apple have invented a brand new must have app called Video Calling!!! :eek::eek::eek:

Its so cool. If it had been available for the past 10 years there would be millions of people using it all over the planet! But because Apple just thought of it now it will be the new reason to get a new phone!!!

Because Apple respect their customers so much and wanted to give back to them, they have decided that you will only be able to use it between two iPhones, so all your friends will need to have iPhone G4's too & it won't use up any of your data bundle or call minutes because Apple have (kindly) made it so that it will only work over Wi-Fi.

What a useful ****ing app!!!

This place is hilarious! Video calling has been technically available on the last 3 phones I've owned, but I was never able to make a call, I did witness a comically bad video call on a Nokia a few years ago, Apple didn't invent video calling on a mobile, but, they'll do it right and make it massively popular, just like they have with web browsing from you phone, email etc. how many phones offered a decent web browsing experience before the iPhone came along?

As a techie who likes my tech to work properly I'm a perfectly happy jail broken iPhone user, but i can also see the appeal of the android based phones unlike some of you lads on here who are fairly/comically blinkered (I'm guessing a few former Nokia fanboi's who've jumped ship to Android since Nokia have all but fallen off the face of the smart phone world).

EasyBoy1974 · 10-06-2010 6:32pm

oh dear, an ADF (Apple Defense Force) member ... ready to dive into any Internet discussion which is less than favourable to St Jobs or the Jesus phone ...

Inquitus · 10-06-2010 6:33pm

Victor_M wrote: »

This place is hilarious! Video calling has been technically available on the last 3 phones I've owned, but I was never able to make a call, I did witness a comically bad video call on a Nokia a few years ago, Apple didn't invent video calling on a mobile, but, they'll do it right and make it massively popular, just like they have with web browsing from you phone, email etc. how many phones offered a decent web browsing experience before the iPhone came along?

As a techie who likes my tech to work properly I'm a perfectly happy jail broken iPhone user, but i can also see the appeal of the android based phones unlike some of you lads on here who are fairly/comically blinkered (I'm guessing a few former Nokia fanboi's who've jumped ship to Android since Nokia have all but fallen off the face of the smart phone world).

Video calling from your home wifi network, that's a revolution, oh wait skype has been doing it for years far better than an iPhone ever will.

Its a pointless gimmick unless it works from anywhere, over 3G, and your provider gives you a data package at a decent price that supports it..........and given we are re-entering the data package stoneage with O2 in the UK and AT&T in the US drastically reigning in their data pricing and quantities, I am not hopeful of the latter happening anytime soon.

Bluefoam · 10-06-2010 6:44pm

Victor_M wrote: »

Video calling has been technically available on the last 3 phones I've owned

OMG, shock! horror!

Are you ****ing serious! If Apple invented it so long ago, how come they didn't put it on any of their phones until now? Next thing you'll tell me is that Apple didn't invent MMS, or touch screen phone, or hard drive based mp3 players...

* BTW, before this goes on too long, I was being sarcastic. Video conferencing over internet & mobile has been available in many formats for many many years. It is a massive fail & I don't believe that Apples walled garden approach will serve to make it a widley used function, particularly with all the restictions they are imposing on a service that is currently open on many other platforms....

one man clappin · 10-06-2010 10:00pm

I am due an upgrade with Vodafone and I am looking at either the HTC Desire or iPhone 4. Could anybody help me make up my mind please?

OI · 10-06-2010 10:07pm

one man clappin wrote: »

I am due an upgrade with Vodafone and I am looking at either the HTC Desire or iPhone 4. Could anybody help me make up my mind please?

Well sir, that depends on which forum you post in.

axer · 10-06-2010 10:14pm

one man clappin wrote: »

I am due an upgrade with Vodafone and I am looking at either the HTC Desire or iPhone 4. Could anybody help me make up my mind please?

Both are great phones. If you want more freedom then go for the Desire. If you want more simplistic ease of use then go for the iPhone.

More freedom/customisability means possibly seeming more complicated.

Venom · 10-06-2010 10:17pm

one man clappin wrote: »

I am due an upgrade with Vodafone and I am looking at either the HTC Desire or iPhone 4. Could anybody help me make up my mind please?

This depends on a couple of different factors

1)Are you a current or prepared to be a Bill pay or PAYG customer?

2)What do you want the phone to do?

3)Do you want a closed or open company designing the phone?

gbee · 10-06-2010 10:29pm

djgaillimh wrote: »

other manufacturer are going to start including redundant, low-quality front-facing cameras, because

I'm almost certainly getting this new iPhone, I've a two year old 3G ~ but watching S Jobbs gush over this totally useless feature was almost enough to make me think of either not upgrading, or moving to something like you've mentioned, later in the year.

And, as you mentioned, multitasking?????? "It's life Jim, but not as we know it!"

gbee · 10-06-2010 10:38pm

cormie wrote: »

I've had front facing cameras ... one in every 5,000 phone calls i..get on camera when they've just woken up/driving/in the toilet/cooking etc.

AND under child protection laws it should be banned. We know enough as to how people use webcams already ... and we all know that gramps in Australia chatting to his family in New York, whilst fantastic, will be a very small minority market.

gbee · 10-06-2010 10:40pm

cormie wrote: »

actually, does anyone know where you can get a replacement battery for the desire? Would be handy to have one! Or a few if they are cheap enough

Maybe not, these batteries like to be in service and will deteriorate even unopened on the shelf.

theteal · 10-06-2010 11:17pm

S.M.B. wrote: »

It's arrival has forced O2 UK to change their Unlimited Data allowance too. I'm not impressed.

From October I'll be limited to 500 MB on my Desire and it's an extra £5 to top it up by another 500MB.

Had to download 3G watchdog today in preparation.

my lady friend signed up to O2 uk with a 16gb 3gs (don't ask, she wouldn't listen) at the weekend. i questioned what the fair usage policy on the "unlimited data" allowance was. . . .1GB was his answer "but you'll never use that in a month":eek::eek::eek:. he then became uncomfortable at my silent raised eyebrow reaction - so many questions/objections came to mind but i was too stunned to verbalise. i thought the uk had the best plans??????

she still bought the bloody iphone

sorry for going OT - just had to share my surprise

Gryzor · 10-06-2010 11:36pm

axer wrote: »

Both are great phones. If you want more freedom then go for the Desire. If you want more simplistic ease of use then go for the iPhone.

More freedom/customisability means possibly seeming more complicated.

Could someone explain the "freedom" argument please. It's bandied around an awful lot. What can I do on my Android that I couldn't do on my jailbroken 3Gs??

Inquitus · 10-06-2010 11:37pm

theteal wrote: »

my lady friend signed up to O2 uk with a 16gb 3gs (don't ask, she wouldn't listen) at the weekend. i questioned what the fair usage policy on the "unlimited data" allowance was. . . .1GB was his answer "but you'll never use that in a month":eek::eek::eek:. he then became uncomfortable at my silent raised eyebrow reaction - so many questions/objections came to mind but i was too stunned to verbalise. i thought the uk had the best plans??????

she still bought the bloody iphone

sorry for going OT - just had to share my surprise

This is going to become a larger issue, for all smartphone users.

What is the point of go everywhere in your pocket internet phones, capable of video calling, media streaming, VOIP etc. if the dataplans don't exist to support it in a cost effective manner?

TheDoc · 11-06-2010 8:07am

I find alot of the iphone users who big it up over android usually point to something along these lines

"sure my iphones jailbroken does everything i need, no big deal, theres nothing better"

Thats a eprfectly valid statement, only problem I have is tha tthe phone doesnt retail as jailbroken and when exavluations like this are being made, it has to be done in the context of the phones original condition and selling condition.

I have no desire ( lol pun )to root my Android phone, because their is just no need. The big thing about jailbreaking your ipod is to get better control over the phone, making remote connections , terminal commands and free apps.

Android pretty much covers all off the above out of the box. The only thing i used my jailbroken ipod for was ssh'ing into my home machine, which my android achieves without rooting.

Also it has to be noted that so many users jailbreak their apple products to gain simple things that shouldnt be restricted....but same old apple, it only took them what, 4 years to get around to multitasking : /

I dont think there is alot between them, but cant feel the iphone4 hardware wise is playing catchup and will put it on an even playing field with something like the desire for example.

I also find alot of the attention for apple presentations are on absolute nonsense. Huge noise made about ridic applications that are not free, and technology or implementations that are not new, groundbreaking or something that is more a relief they finally did it mor ethen excitement and suprise.

More i use my android desire, and talk to people with iphones, it becomes more obvious that the iphone is just a trend ( i knew this obviously). But its not a smart phone, its a flashy toy. Its celebrity endorsement and all round hype mean its very much just an expensive phone to get to say you have rather then something you need.

I'll be happily taking high quality snaps on my desire of the Q's outside o2 stores, and throw those photos to flickr and twitter at the same time, whilst playing music, whilst connected to all my instant messaging services, whilst syncing my email every 20 seconds.

And as the new iphone users go mental over how they can do more then one thing at a time, I'll be over it acting **** cool like it aint no thang

OI · 11-06-2010 8:58am

I bought the desire because of all the bull sh1t that comes out of Apple but its actually a much better phone. Even the ease of mounting it as a hard drive is a massive gain over ishmone. The only thing is the battery, its poor enough for a brand new product.

Gryzor · 11-06-2010 10:31am

To say one phone is better than the other is opinion, pure and simple. Yeah, one may have a better camera, the other has a better screen etc, etc...and each one will leapfrog the other when they release new hardware...

It comes down to personal preference....theres probobly very little u can do on one phone that u can't on the other....my preference is a jailbroken iphone. I've used both, the Desire just doesn't do it for me. Maybe its the lack of apps (which i've no doubt will come), or the interface, but it just doesn't grab me the same way.

The addition of android to the smartphone market can only be good, Apple have had it their own way for too long, each one pushing the other can only be good for us, the enduser.

axer · 11-06-2010 10:32am

Gryzor wrote: »

Could someone explain the "freedom" argument please. It's bandied around an awful lot. What can I do on my Android that I couldn't do on my jailbroken 3Gs??

That's the difference right there. You have to break out of jail to gain freedom!

Has the iPhone 4 surpassed the Desire? (And all Android Phones?)

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