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Pharmacy promises to match drug prices in North

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  • 16-01-2014 1:21pm
    #1
    td2008
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭


    Didn't see a thread on it yet

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/pharmacy-promises-to-match-drug-prices-in-north-1.1656726


    A Dublin pharmacy is to sell generic prescription drugs at Northern Ireland prices by introducing a radical business model likely to be closely watched by other pharmacies.
    Healthwave, a recently opened Dundrum pharmacy, is promising to match cross-Border prices for generic medications. Under its scheme, people availing of the savings will have to join a subscription service with an upfront fee of €25 a year.


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    #2
    td2008
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭td2008


    Surprised not more interest in this!
    Just a quick update , rang them today and can get my prescription for around 93 euro, compared to 144. Neither drug is generic though so go figure!
    Was around 100 up north and had priced in portugal aswell - around 70 euro. (one of the drugs over there would actually be free if i was a resident i think)


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    #3
    happygoose
    Registered Users Posts: 703 ✭✭✭happygoose


    Surprised there's not more on this either, these are the only posts in any forum. There have been a lot of articles in the media on this in the past wo weeks. There are quite a few pharmacists on boards more than willing to offer up their opinion on Joe Public going abroad/north to fill prescriptions. Interesting, aside from the Healthwave discussion, there is an article in the health supplement of the Irish Times today which outlines how legislation has been enacted in Ireland for assertaining prescriptions and treatment abroad, and claiming refunds for the latter in Ireland.

    Similar to you I currently max out the €144 a month on the DPS, although I suspect that two of the inhalers which form the bulk of this cost are not generic.

    I've contacted Healthwave to find the equivalent price of these products in their store. I will also be asking them/my GP if there is a similarly effective inhaler which has a generic equivalent available, if so I will be replacing my current inhaler with this.

    The savings will be two fold - to me, and to the State where it is subsidising the cost of my medication above €144.

    Currently local pharmacies are paying lip service to generic alternatives, they are offering them, but at a marginal saving to consumers. For example, I'm on a product called Singular, roughly €28 per month. I was offered the generic equivalent for €3 cheaper by my pharmacy. Healthwave have it for sale for €6.


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    #4
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    This was on tv3 last week, I posted it in a thread about pharmacies in the ripoff forum
    rubadub wrote: »
    This is worth a look


    The Cost Of Drugs

    We discuss whether the new pharmacy model launched in Dublin promising huge price cuts on generic medicines is good news for cash-strapped consumers.
    Friday, January 17, 2014

    http://www.tv3.ie/ireland_am_video.php?locID=1.65.74&video=74841


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    #5
    td2008
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭td2008


    The big surprise for me was that the two drugs I'm after - pentasa/imuran are still a lot cheaper even though they're not generic.


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    #6
    Yakuza
    Registered Users Posts: 5,141 ✭✭✭Yakuza


    That's a very interesting proposition, I hope it works out well for them. There was(is) a fairly lively debate here about the legality of filling scripts outside the state via phone/internet. This pharmacy sounds like a happy (and legal!) medium. I'd like to see more of them open!


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    #7
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    THe subscription thing is a bit odd, but other than that I would not describe it as a "radical business model". It'd be like a €2 shop saying they expect there will be a backlash from jewellers since they are selling generic watch batteries at a lower margin. Or all the "junk mail pizza companies" complaining about my local chipper who just charge a reasonable price for a pizza


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    #8
    digitaldr
    Registered Users Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭digitaldr


    I would suspect that the €25 is because he may not have been able to get his starting capital any other way as he's very young and would have no proven track record. Initial setup costs for a pharmacy in Dublin are at least €200,000 but his would probably be higher as he would need lots of stock to meet initial demand and to get the volume discounts to compensate for his tight margins. Also even though rents have fallen you can bet they're still high in the Dundrum Town Centre! In fact rents will be high anywhere he opens as this business model will only work in rich areas with a high percentage of private patients.


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    #9
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    The fee allows another marketing trick, people can still go in and buy stuff without the subscription, but they are charged more. So people will see how much they are supposedly saving by having the €25 sub, I expect both prices might be listed on stuff.

    So I expect his "off the street" prices will be quite high relative to normal pharmacies, to make it appear to be a really good saving. He will be making out like its the going rate in all other pharmacies. Maybe not though, I'm very cynical about stuff like this :p

    Did anybody who got a quote get the "normal" price, and was it high?


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    #10
    Volvic12
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Volvic12


    First off, I'm an Economics graduate.

    Pharmacy's have dropped pricies significantly in last few years. Reason it's still high in comparison to UK is due to government deal with pharmaceutical companies. These need to be re-negotiated.

    In my opinion, Healthwave's concept is very short-sighted. They seem to have had a Brainwave - why not go with a load cost model. I'll tell you why. If other companies follow suit, they will all drive each other out of business. Simple Economics. The mark-up is simply not there. If he is the only one doing it then I'm sure he can make a healthy profit but if any big chain (Boots etc.) adopted a similar model, he would be gone overnight.

    Few questions I would have:
    If they go out of business, what happens your "subscription".

    The model is based on lost cost, high demand. It's not possible that he can offer the same care to his patients if demand is going to be as high as he needs it to be.

    Heard him say on Matt Copper show "unfortunetly you can't deliver prescription medicine in Ireland". unfortuntely?? Does not seem to have nay duty of care. All about the bottom line for him.

    If successfull, puts pharmacy profession in jeopardy and many people out of a job. Pharmacy is a tough course and high points for a reason (550 - 600). If the margins aren't there, people will choose other courses. Simple as. Standard of pharmacists will eventually fall. Huge repercussions all round for patients.


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    #11
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Volvic12 wrote: »
    Few questions I would have:
    If they go out of business, what happens your "subscription".
    I was wondering about this too, thought it was a scam at first, but then I heard it was only €25, many will probably save that on the first purchase.

    Volvic12 wrote: »
    Heard him say on Matt Copper show "unfortunetly you can't deliver prescription medicine in Ireland". unfortuntely?? Does not seem to have nay duty of care. All about the bottom line for him.
    I imagine many other pharmacists would like to be able to post too, and do not think there is much more risk. Person enters shop with prescription and gets it filled, a envelope enters the shop with a prescription and gets it filled -am I missing something obvious here?
    Volvic12 wrote: »
    If successfull, puts pharmacy profession in jeopardy and many people out of a job. Pharmacy is a tough course and high points for a reason (550 - 600). If the margins aren't there, people will choose other courses. Simple as. Standard of pharmacists will eventually fall. Huge repercussions all round for patients.
    I wonder what % of pharmacy graduates end up working in pharmacies though.


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    #12
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    rubadub wrote: »
    THe subscription thing is a bit odd, but other than that I would not describe it as a "radical business model". It'd be like a €2 shop saying they expect there will be a backlash from jewellers since they are selling generic watch batteries at a lower margin. Or all the "junk mail pizza companies" complaining about my local chipper who just charge a reasonable price for a pizza

    He is selling the exact same generics as they sell in every other pharmacy.

    Your analogy is completely irrelevant. We are talking about highly regulated medicines. Every facility manufacturing them regularly inspected. Every batch subjected to rigorous quality assurance. Any adverse events investigated. Comparing it to batteries and pizzas is just not a runner, even if your trying to illustrate a point.

    It's crazy the amount of people that still consider generics to be inferior. They simply aren't.

    He's also selling branded products at a considerably cheaper price.
    Volvic12 wrote: »
    First off, I'm an Economics graduate.

    Pharmacy's have dropped pricies significantly in last few years. Reason it's still high in comparison to UK is due to government deal with pharmaceutical companies. These need to be re-negotiated.

    In my opinion, Healthwave's concept is very short-sighted. They seem to have had a Brainwave - why not go with a load cost model. I'll tell you why. If other companies follow suit, they will all drive each other out of business. Simple Economics. The mark-up is simply not there. If he is the only one doing it then I'm sure he can make a healthy profit but if any big chain (Boots etc.) adopted a similar model, he would be gone overnight.

    Few questions I would have:
    If they go out of business, what happens your "subscription".

    Same thing that happens in most businesses. You loose it. It's €25, you'd save that in one or two visits on a lot of items.

    The model is based on lost cost, high demand. It's not possible that he can offer the same care to his patients if demand is going to be as high as he needs it to be.

    Heard him say on Matt Copper show "unfortunetly you can't deliver prescription medicine in Ireland". unfortuntely?? Does not seem to have nay duty of care. All about the bottom line for him.

    That may or may not be true. It depends on the patient. He is targeting a specific type of patient. As far as I know he does not fill medical card scripts or any other State scheme. If I go in for 6 months of a statin, I want the meds for the cheapest price possible. I don't need any care. My doctor will keep an eye on my bloods every 6 months.


    If successfull, puts pharmacy profession in jeopardy and many people out of a job. Pharmacy is a tough course and high points for a reason (550 - 600). If the margins aren't there, people will choose other courses. Simple as. Standard of pharmacists will eventually fall. Huge repercussions all round for patients.
    Bit dramatic to say there will be high repercussions for patients. The main job of the pharmacist is to dispense the correct medicine. There are more difficult patients but most of these are on one of the state schemes anyway and this model doesn't apply. Is it fair to say that people should pay huge markups on drugs simply because pharmacy is a high point course? It's a high point course because there is high demand. There is high demand because people perceive it as a relatively easy job with the potential for lots of money. Is the standard of care very poor in the UK where generics are cheap?


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    #13
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Nonoperational wrote: »
    It's crazy the amount of people that still consider generics to be inferior. They simply aren't
    I think you were picking me up completely wrong. I was certainly not inferring they are inferior in anyway.

    My analogy is that many other businesses have been getting away with ludicrous mark up on products for years. Weirs could be selling the exact same brand of generic battery for 10 times the price. So I think it is totally relevant comparison.


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    #14
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    Sorry, I wan't referring to you, I meant in general re the perception of generic quality.


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    #15
    delw
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭delw


    happygoose wrote: »
    Currently local pharmacies are paying lip service to generic alternatives, they are offering them, but at a marginal saving to consumers. For example, I'm on a product called Singular, roughly €28 per month. I was offered the generic equivalent for €3 cheaper by my pharmacy. Healthwave have it for sale for €6.
    My 3 year old is on that,local pharmacy charge 40euro for the singular & 25 for the generic brand


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    #16
    lariesen
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭lariesen


    I thought I would share my experience. I've been very unhappy with the prices I pay at Lloyds. I switched recently to Sheridan's in Roselawn (Blanchardstown) but they didn't seem to be much better, in spite of the fact that I bought 6 months at once (I've been reading all the suggestions for lowering your prescription costs!).

    The prices on this HSE website (https://www.sspcrs.ie/druglist/search.jsp) are supposed to be close to the prices that pharmacists pay for prescriptions. Comparing your cost to the cost at this site is an indication of the pharmacy's markup. It's not exactly what they pay, and pharmacies also charge their dispensing fee, so it's only a rough guide.

    Here is my comparison:

    Prescription #1: HSE (.65/pill), Healthwave (.64/pill)
    Prescription #2: HSE (.25/pill), Healthwave (.33/pill), Lloyds (.60/pill)
    Prescription #3: HSE (.90/pill), Healthwave (.86/pill), Lloyds (1.30/pill)
    Prescription #4: HSE (.20/pill), Sheridans (.44/pill), Lloyds (.50/pill)
    Prescription #5: HSE (.064/pill), Sheridans (.134/pill), Lloyds (.29/pill)

    Prescriptions at all three were filled as written by my doctor, there were no substitutions of generic for brand name.
    The Sheridan's prescriptions were for 6 months, the Lloyds prescriptions were for 1 month. Lloyds dispensing fee is 5 Euro. I don't know Sheridan's dispensing fee. Healthwave does not have a dispensing fee. As you most likely know, they charge you 25 Euro per year flat fee to have your prescriptions filled there.

    There is no free parking at Healthwave, unless you want to park in one of the neighborhoods near Dundrum and hike over. So you will have a 2 Euro cost to park if you are just going to the pharmacy. They didn't have my prescription ready on the day they said they would, so ask them to call you when it's ready and save yourself a parking fee.

    There were two pharmacists on staff and everyone was very friendly, although they seemed to take a very long time to get things done. It seemed a bit disorganized behind the counter. I'm plan to continue going there, because even though it's a long drive and they're slow it's still worth it for me.


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    #17
    palmcut
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭palmcut


    Is the 25 euros vat inclusive or is there vat due on the 25 euros?


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    #18
    lariesen
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭lariesen


    There was no VAT charged on the 25 Euro. However I received an automatic email following the charge that said it would be charged automatically each year. I don't like that. The burden is on the customer to remember to cancel it if you're not going to be shopping there anymore.


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    #19
    locum-motion
    Registered Users Posts: 5,143 ✭✭✭locum-motion


    lariesen wrote: »
    There was no VAT charged on the 25 Euro. However I received an automatic email following the charge that said it would be charged automatically each year. I don't like that. The burden is on the customer to remember to cancel it if you're not going to be shopping there anymore.

    And the catches in the small print start to become apparent!


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    #20
    quinevere
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭quinevere


    I was shopping around for my script and I went to a number of pharmacies and I found that one pharmacy without the travel was matching healthwave prices and not charging the E25 euro fee but the difference between pharmacies was scary ...


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    #21
    locum-motion
    Registered Users Posts: 5,143 ✭✭✭locum-motion


    When Healthwave goes bust (note: I said 'when', not 'if', quite deliberately), I wonder what will happen to all the 'Membership Fees' that people have paid in advance.


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    #22
    SnappyDresser
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭SnappyDresser


    Used healthwave.ie to get my cholesterol tablets and they were very very cheap :O) :O)
    I paid €25 plus €59.50 for 6 months supply. Compare that with ~€195 in the pharmacy for my meds so a huge saving. No queuing, no hassle. Just quick and cheap! Highly recommended!


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    #23
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Am aghast at what you have to cope with having lived most of my life in the UK and then disabled and a pensioner on medical card here.

    You have my sympathy and applause.


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    #24
    caycro
    Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭caycro


    td2008 wrote: »
    The big surprise for me was that the two drugs I'm after - pentasa/imuran are still a lot cheaper even though they're not generic.

    Do you mind me asking which form of Pentasa was a lot cheaper for you? I'm on the sachets and they are coming in at 99.95 per month. Also on a Salofalk daily which is 223 per month !


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    #25
    Baroquetom
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭Baroquetom


    Having had my over 70 medical card limited to GP visit I went to my pharmacy with my prescription. It cost me €144 for one month.The amount was limited because of the drug refund scheme. It would have cost €180 to buy without the DRS. I then priced the cost at another local pharmacy. The difference was €2.


    I quickly signed up with Healthwave (€25x2).I collected a 3 month supply yesterday for
    A cost of €169. No fuss,no delay,very courteous service.


    I reckon that this represents a saving of €1002 per annum.This has to be the biggest no-brainer of the year

    I hope Healthwave continues to grow and expand.


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    #26
    suitseir
    Registered Users Posts: 887 ✭✭✭suitseir


    Thinking of getting prescription for six months dispensed at Healthwave. Are they still cheaper than Northern Ireland pharmacies and is the registration of €25 for the year?
    Any info appreciated.

    Would appreciate a reply.

    Thanks


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    #27
    huskerdu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭huskerdu


    suitseir wrote: »
    Thinking of getting prescription for six months dispensed at Healthwave. Are they still cheaper than Northern Ireland pharmacies and is the registration of €25 for the year?
    Any info appreciated.

    Would appreciate a reply.

    Thanks

    Completely depends on what the prescription is.

    Lots of people have reported savings. However, for some drugs, they don't offer a discount at all.

    You should ring them and get a price.


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    #28
    caycro
    Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭caycro


    I rang and got prices for the prescriptions I take, they told me they really only offer savings to those on the most 'common' drugs and anything unusual are similarly priced to other pharmacies. I'm still hitting the 144 monthly so no point changing.


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    #29
    lariesen
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭lariesen


    suitseir wrote: »
    Thinking of getting prescription for six months dispensed at Healthwave. Are they still cheaper than Northern Ireland pharmacies and is the registration of €25 for the year?
    Any info appreciated.

    Would appreciate a reply.

    Thanks

    Yes, the 25 Euro is for the year. When I signed up I got an email saying they would automatically charge my card each year. I don't like that, but I saved so much by going there that I did it.


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