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Why Not Extend the Dart to Navan via Drogheda (South)

  • 03-08-2010 9:43pm
    #1
    OurLadyofKnock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 ✭✭✭


    Seems like the logical way to get there. One of things about the DART to Drogheda is reversing the units in Drogheda station itself. These 15 minute services will be constantly blocking the mainline.

    By having them serve Drogheda with new platforms on the Navan line and then continue the service to Navan they can stable, reverse and do what they like with them at a terminus in Navan.

    Seems to me all the shuffling and reversals of DARTs at Drogheda will be messy. By extending the service to Navan - it kills two birds with one stone?

    Having DARTs terminating in Drogheda every 15 minutes will be a nightmare for conflicts with services to Dundalk and Belfast. Send them to Navan instead?

    The currently plan just moves the Connolly bottleneck to county Louth. Get it off the Dublin-Belfast line completely and get a service to Navan.

    Everyone wins?


Comments

  • #2
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    Our lady Queen of peace, you might just have something there. New platforms with a new access development. Bobs your uncle. DART to Drogheda kills two birds with the one stone and clears the mainline.


  • #3
    Bazzer2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭Bazzer2


    Em, can we have DART in the rest of Dublin, before we start extending further into other counties?


  • #4
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    So its going to be rebranded LART then -> Leinster area regional transport


  • #5
    BrianD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    OurLadyofKnock wrote: »
    Seems like the logical way to get there. One of things about the DART to Drogheda is reversing the units in Drogheda station itself. These 15 minute services will be constantly blocking the mainline.

    By having them serve Drogheda with new platforms on the Navan line and then continue the service to Navan they can stable, reverse and do what they like with them at a terminus in Navan.

    Seems to me all the shuffling and reversals of DARTs at Drogheda will be messy. By extending the service to Navan - it kills two birds with one stone?

    Having DARTs terminating in Drogheda every 15 minutes will be a nightmare for conflicts with services to Dundalk and Belfast. Send them to Navan instead?

    The currently plan just moves the Connolly bottleneck to county Louth. Get it off the Dublin-Belfast line completely and get a service to Navan.

    Everyone wins?

    Nope, I don't and neither does the tax payer. There is no population to support the service on the route you propose. So far as I am aware there is no plan to develop the corridor through which the Navan-Drogheda line runs.

    The logical choice, (should it ever go ahead) to Navan is still the old route (or approximate route) from Pace to Navan.

    Here's hoping we won't be wasting our money on a DART extension to Drogheda.


  • #6
    OurLadyofKnock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 ✭✭✭OurLadyofKnock


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    Our lady Queen of peace, you might just have something there. New platforms with a new access development. Bobs your uncle. DART to Drogheda kills two birds with the one stone and clears the mainline.

    Simple and elegant if I do not say so myself.

    Land prices would be less of a problem at Navan as they have a ton of space and the cement works to build depots etc. All the free railway land they want to build on.

    What about the the Boyne Bridge; is single track which nobody seems to have brought this operational nightmare up yet. I have heard nothing in terms of contingency planning on how they will get trains across that with DARTS blocking up Drogheda. Never mind the construction phase. If they ran the DART to Navan a whole new DART station can be built on the Navan line tracks at Drogheda without any impact on current commuter and intercity services.

    Not to mention a DART to Navan campaign would take off and capture local imagination.


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  • #7
    shamwari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    This thread is ridiculous. The very notion of electrifying to Navan along a single track line is so daft that it does not warrant the effort in challenging.


  • #8
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    shamwari wrote: »
    This thread is ridiculous. The very notion of electrifying to Navan along a single track line is so daft that it does not warrant the effort in challenging.

    why?

    every line in the country should be electrified. It'll never happen, but it should.


  • #9
    patrickbrophy18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    So its going to be rebranded LART then -> Leinster area regional transport

    If this were the case, the current DART fleet would need to be sent off in phase for LART rebranding. Also, given that the journey length would become substantially longer, the fleet would need to be fitted with on-board rest-room facilities. I'm not being sarcastic or anything as I do think this would be an excellent idea. It would make the system a lot more attractive.


  • #10
    OurLadyofKnock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 ✭✭✭OurLadyofKnock


    patrickbrophy18 wrote: »
    If this were the case, the current DART fleet would need to be sent off in phase for LART rebranding. Also, given that the journey length would become substantially longer, the fleet would need to be fitted with on-board rest-room facilities. I'm not being sarcastic or anything as I do think this would be an excellent idea. It would make the system a lot more attractive.

    They have to order new DARTS anyways - so they can get ones with toilets. There are lots of regional DMUs in service all over the world.

    Can they double the track from Drogheda to Navan if need be? Is there space?


  • #11
    OurLadyofKnock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 ✭✭✭OurLadyofKnock


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    why?


    Because the Irish Rail or Nothing/IRRS "useful idiots" on this board cannot give each other thumbs ups in communal agreement?


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  • #12
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    shamwari wrote: »
    This thread is ridiculous. The very notion of electrifying to Navan along a single track line is so daft that it does not warrant the effort in challenging.

    The very notion of electrifying a single line on the edge of a cliff and through tunnels to a small town (at the time) was also daft. But they did it.


  • #13
    OurLadyofKnock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 ✭✭✭OurLadyofKnock


    shamwari wrote: »
    This thread is ridiculous. The very notion of electrifying to Navan along a single track line is so daft that it does not warrant the effort in challenging.

    It is not daft. It is elegant, simple and workable like all the best ideas.


  • #14
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    OurLadyofKnock wrote: »
    Because the Irish Rail or Nothing/IRRS "useful idiots" on this board cannot give each other thumbs ups in communal agreement?

    Funnily enough it was a member of the IRRS who lead the campaign to get the DART to Greystones.:D


  • #15
    Hungerford
    Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    OurLadyofKnock wrote: »
    Land prices would be less of a problem at Navan as they have a ton of space and the cement works to build depots etc. All the free railway land they want to build on.

    What about the the Boyne Bridge; is single track which nobody seems to have brought this operational nightmare up yet. I have heard nothing in terms of contingency planning on how they will get trains across that with DARTS blocking up Drogheda. Never mind the construction phase.

    A couple of issues here:
    1. Drogheda has its own extensive depot, which would be converted for DART use under the plans.
    2. The cement works is 12 miles away from Navan and is only accessible from the Drogheda direction
    3. Drogheda already has three platforms and building a fourth would be a trival exercise - meaning that the two through tracks would be left free.

    The one issue I can forsee is access to the Drogheda depot - the trackwork would need to be upgraded to minimise movements across the through lines into the depot. Platform 3 is well positioned for this already though - trains can enter the depot from that Platform without blocking the running lines - and they may just build a Platform 4 alongside it to resolve that issue.


  • #16
    OurLadyofKnock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 ✭✭✭OurLadyofKnock


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    Funnily enough it was a member of the IRRS who lead the campaign to get the DART to Greystones.:D

    and also a CIE manager and organised a DART coach halued by a heritage diesel into the town to promote it when there was already a grand DMU shuttle from Bray to Greystones which worked a treat and only need moderising.

    You could not make this stuff up if you tried.

    Ever notice how many of Irish Rail managers live around the "Dort"...

    Pity none of them live near Rosslare...


  • #17
    BrianD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    why?

    every line in the country should be electrified. It'll never happen, but it should.

    Yep the folks that just want to see a green electric train in their town aren't thinking of this, just a DART.

    It would make sense to have our mainline rail system electrified but that's a different project all together.


  • #18
    BrianD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    The very notion of electrifying a single line on the edge of a cliff and through tunnels to a small town (at the time) was also daft. But they did it.

    And it was a monumental waste of money and true example of a project that was driven by uninformed local politicians looking for votes. Apparently, the upkeep of the infrastructure on that stretch is very expensive.

    The reality is that the people of Bray would nahve been better served by a DMU that would shuttle back and forward between the two towns connecting with DART.


  • #19
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    BrianD wrote: »
    And it was a monumental waste of money and true example of a project that was driven by uninformed local politicians looking for votes. Apparently, the upkeep of the infrastructure on that stretch is very expensive.

    The reality is that the people of Bray would nahve been better served by a DMU that would shuttle back and forward between the two towns connecting with DART.

    I agree. But Navan is a different beast.


  • #20
    fh041205
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 992 ✭✭✭fh041205


    Big Problem: A 4th or 5th platform on the Navan branch would take up considerable space from the already over-used carpark. The line itself would have to be seriously upgraded. I'd imagine so many years of tonnes of ore from Tara mines has taken its toll on the tracks.

    Sounds like a giant waste of money. Dempsey will probly commission it next week!


  • #21
    OurLadyofKnock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 ✭✭✭OurLadyofKnock


    fh041205 wrote: »
    Big Problem: A 4th or 5th platform on the Navan branch would take up considerable space from the already over-used carpark.


    "what about the carpark...for God's sake won't somebody please think of the car park!!!!!"

    Are you an Irish Rail employee?

    Ever hear of a shuttle bus? What am I saying, if you work for CIE you do not relate to public transport... Silly me!


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  • #22
    fh041205
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 992 ✭✭✭fh041205


    OurLadyofKnock wrote: »
    "what about the carpark...for God's sake won't somebody please think of the car park!!!!!"

    Are you an Irish Rail employee?

    Are you? :confused:

    "F*ck the customers lets dig up half the car park they pay 8€ extra a week for and they don't even get a parking space"


  • #23
    OurLadyofKnock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 ✭✭✭OurLadyofKnock


    fh041205 wrote: »
    Are you? :confused:

    "F*ck the customers "

    Opps, I am sorry, you appear to be an IE manager.


  • #24
    BrianD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    fh041205 wrote: »
    Big Problem: A 4th or 5th platform on the Navan branch would take up considerable space from the already over-used carpark. The line itself would have to be seriously upgraded. I'd imagine so many years of tonnes of ore from Tara mines has taken its toll on the tracks.

    Sounds like a giant waste of money. Dempsey will probly commission it next week!

    I'm open to correction on this one but the Navan-Drogheda appears to have been built as a single line. The amount of money required to double track or create passing loops woul make it an expensive proposition particularly as it won't be serving much between the two end points.


  • #25
    Calina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    I see some personalisation of the debate going on here so it's going to be locked to allow some heads to cool down as well.


This discussion has been closed.
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