Lough Corrib Pike Abortion

DryFlyFishing · 24-06-2010 5:26pm

Zzippy wrote: »

I really do wonder how supposedly intelligent people can post such utter rubbish on these boards. What's even more ironic is these people's utter certainty in their beliefs, even if they are contrary to scientific principles, years of research, educated opinion of highly respected scientists, etc. Oh no, they're right and everyone else is wrong.
DFF, you have provided me with great entertainment over the last few weeks, just when I think you can't get any odder you post another batshit crazy theory. For that, I would like to thank you. As for your opinions.... well, :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Good man yourself!

prove the theory wrong....:D ... no one else can...:D.... its just maths... give it a go...

uuupppsss ... running a fishery with maths.... o god you will be telling me that is insane.... LMAO

wake up call.... everything is run by maths / numbers / theroms / equations

Zzippy · 24-06-2010 5:37pm

Just maths eh? Yet you haven't produced a single statistic to back up your posts. You're the one coming up with mad theories, its up to you to prove it.

Tell us how many acres of Lagarosiphon weed there are.

Tell us how many acres of native reeds and weed there are.

Tell us what percentage of pike spawning habitat is occupied by Lagarosiphon weed.

Tell us how you know that pike are spawning preferentially in the Lagarosiphon weed.

Tell us how many million pike spawn are being killed by weed harvesting.

Tell us how many perch this is saving.

Tell us how many trout are having their growth stunted because of this.

Tell us why you don't know why the Lagarosiphon weed cannot be cut in summer.

An awful lot of variables in your theory, an awful lot of statistics you would need to prove it. Very easy to come up with a theory, a lot harder to prove it. But what would I know, I only studied science and who really needs research or stats when you can post any old theory you want on an internet forum and state it as fact...

DryFlyFishing · 24-06-2010 6:24pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Just maths eh? Yet you haven't produced a single statistic to back up your posts. You're the one coming up with mad theories, its up to you to prove it.

Tell us how many acres of Lagarosiphon weed there are.

Tell us how many acres of native reeds and weed there are.

Tell us what percentage of pike spawning habitat is occupied by Lagarosiphon weed.

Tell us how you know that pike are spawning preferentially in the Lagarosiphon weed.

Tell us how many million pike spawn are being killed by weed harvesting.

Tell us how many perch this is saving.

Tell us how many trout are having their growth stunted because of this.

Tell us why you don't know why the Lagarosiphon weed cannot be cut in summer.

An awful lot of variables in your theory, an awful lot of statistics you would need to prove it. Very easy to come up with a theory, a lot harder to prove it. But what would I know, I only studied science and who really needs research or stats when you can post any old theory you want on an internet forum and state it as fact...

Do you work for the Corrib fishery? WRFB? if you do iv been waiting a long time... what took you so long...

Why do you not know the answers to your own questions... ?

are you trying to get someone else to do your research for you....

Do you think you should be running the fishery if you dont know those answers?

Are you going to pay me for stats...lol...with perch

and by the way your not the only one thats done science.... but iv been in the field.. or should i say lake for years, have you?

fish stats that seem to be important are only salmon and seatrout... all stats are given by us lot... maybe you should set up a trout perch pike location and size and amount... I know my stats for years... ask average joe thats on the corrib a lot... he will tell you the same.. if he knows his stuff...

if you dont believe me ask only one question to anyone that fishes that lake=(do the trout seem to be getting small on average?) or ( are there very few small pike being caught) or ( is there a lot more perch being caught ) or (where are they seeing most of the pike)

stick a few trackers on the pike and you will find they go to the infected areas to spawn

Zzippy · 25-06-2010 12:01pm

DryFlyFishing wrote: »

Do you work for the Corrib fishery? WRFB? if you do iv been waiting a long time... what took you so long...

Why do you not know the answers to your own questions... ?

are you trying to get someone else to do your research for you....

Do you think you should be running the fishery if you dont know those answers?

Are you going to pay me for stats...lol...with perch

and by the way your not the only one thats done science.... but iv been in the field.. or should i say lake for years, have you?

fish stats that seem to be important are only salmon and seatrout... all stats are given by us lot... maybe you should set up a trout perch pike location and size and amount... I know my stats for years... ask average joe thats on the corrib a lot... he will tell you the same.. if he knows his stuff...

if you dont believe me ask only one question to anyone that fishes that lake=(do the trout seem to be getting small on average?) or ( are there very few small pike being caught) or ( is there a lot more perch being caught ) or (where are they seeing most of the pike)

stick a few trackers on the pike and you will find they go to the infected areas to spawn

As I thought, you haven't a single scrap of evidence to back up your theory, just your own observations. Fishery management has to be run on scientific advice - i.e. there are scientists who monitor and survey fish stocks and advise fishery managers. They collect something called data - facts and figures, which enable them to make informed decisions about managing a fishery. Not opinion, not theory, not supposition. Facts. Of which you seem to have very few.
You also seem to be unaware that pike are removed from the lake every year as part of the management strategy. Why the hell would you expect the fishery board to leave pike spawn alone when they are removing thousands of pike? And thats done on scientific advice too.

The Water Framework Directive compels member states to survey fish stocks and compile data on all species, not just salmon and sea trout. So you're wrong again there.

Anyway, until you can back up your madcap theory with some facts I'm out of here. You come on here and post your theories, and if anyone disagrees with you, you challenge them to disprove you. :rolleyes:
If you studied science you would know that theory is nothing without data to back it up.

Here's a short example of fact vs theory, just in case you didn't get it.
Pike are preferential predators on salmonids, i.e. they feed on trout and salmon in preference to other species. That's a fact, and has been published in peer-reviewed literature. Go to a college library and look it up.
Now a theory would be that the reason this is so is because perch, for example, have spines and spiky opercula. We could speculate that pike would prefer to eat a fish that doesn't have such spines. But you know what, its a theory that doesn't matter, because we know the fact is that pike prefer trout. And that fact is more relevant to fishery management than the theory of why pike like trout, so it has been researched and proven with data.

DryFlyFishing · 25-06-2010 1:22pm

Zzippy wrote: »

As I thought, you haven't a single scrap of evidence to back up your theory, just your own observations. Fishery management has to be run on scientific advice - i.e. there are scientists who monitor and survey fish stocks and advise fishery managers. They collect something called data - facts and figures, which enable them to make informed decisions about managing a fishery. Not opinion, not theory, not supposition. Facts. Of which you seem to have very few.
You also seem to be unaware that pike are removed from the lake every year as part of the management strategy. Why the hell would you expect the fishery board to leave pike spawn alone when they are removing thousands of pike? And thats done on scientific advice too.

The Water Framework Directive compels member states to survey fish stocks and compile data on all species, not just salmon and sea trout. So you're wrong again there.

Anyway, until you can back up your madcap theory with some facts I'm out of here. You come on here and post your theories, and if anyone disagrees with you, you challenge them to disprove you. :rolleyes:
If you studied science you would know that theory is nothing without data to back it up.

Here's a short example of fact vs theory, just in case you didn't get it.
Pike are preferential predators on salmonids, i.e. they feed on trout and salmon in preference to other species. That's a fact, and has been published in peer-reviewed literature. Go to a college library and look it up.
Now a theory would be that the reason this is so is because perch, for example, have spines and spiky opercula. We could speculate that pike would prefer to eat a fish that doesn't have such spines. But you know what, its a theory that doesn't matter, because we know the fact is that pike prefer trout. And that fact is more relevant to fishery management than the theory of why pike like trout, so it has been researched and proven with data.

pike like trout a lot and salmon smolts.. but it is fact that trout and salmon smolts are not there primary food in the corrib....:D.. perch are

and you have no factual data, just your hired employee observations who are influenced by there preference for boosting salmon stocks... and you have no data to disprove... the theory...

and i do have my own data and fish counts ... and so does every one else that fishes the lake... maybe you should use this information instead of paper shuffler info,

the only reason you want to kill off the pike is because of the hate champagnes that have been going on for years due to ignorance ... you are just making the corrib a perch lake.... with small trout...

because you have killed so much pike ...do your scientists know the effect of this....now there is a huge perch explosion and what it is doing to the corrib ?

oh i forgot.. the perch will kill themselves off in the end... LMAO ... but they have to eat themselves to starvation to do that.. no food for trout... well ...enough food to keep trout small.... but the lake will recover...

who cares all the breeding grounds for salmon and trout are above lough corrib...

and by the way i stuck a video on here of WRFB killing the pike on the upper corrib water systems because some prat introduced them into the spawning grounds..

Zzippy · 25-06-2010 2:47pm

You're in the wrong forum, you should be posting in Ranting & Raving... :rolleyes:

Still no facts to back up your "theory"?

DryFlyFishing · 26-06-2010 6:24pm

Zzippy wrote: »

You're in the wrong forum, you should be posting in Ranting & Raving... :rolleyes:

Still no facts to back up your "theory"?

go ask any guide on the lake has the fishing changed...

trout are not in the shallows any more...

traditional nymph and fly are decimated... to a certain extent..

ask your self why?

what year did you lot start systematically killing off the pike?

ask yourself why are the traditional nymphs not as abundant...

ask yourself what perch eat primarily...

ask yourself how fast is the perch population growing...

ask yourself why are the trout on average getting smaller over the past two years.. they were getting bigger on average until you lot cut the weed when the pike were spawning...

all i am asking is to stop cutting the weed when the pike are spawning... for above reasons... and if you don't think that there is enough there.... well i presume you are only into getting your salmon stocks high... and don't give a sh** about anything else.... and even though pike would like to eat your salmon smolts they dont do much damage in Louch Corrib itself...

pike will stay near the shoals of perch.. they dont move location at a certain time of year to kill off your smolts... and trout are to fast for pike in general

Zzippy · 26-06-2010 8:45pm

DryFlyFishing wrote: »

go ask any guide on the lake has the fishing changed...

trout are not in the shallows any more...

traditional nymph and fly are decimated... to a certain extent..

Really? So those big hatches of duckfly, olives, mayfly and buzzer that I saw this year aren't traditional? They must be new fangled flies so, if the "traditional" nymphs are gone... :rolleyes:

DryFlyFishing wrote: »

what year did you lot start systematically killing off the pike?

You lot? I've never killed a pike on Corrib in my life. Only pike I ever killed were in Northern Ireland on a survey. And pike have been controlled with nets on Corrib for over 100 years.

DryFlyFishing wrote: »

ask yourself why are the traditional nymphs not as abundant...

"Traditional" nymphs? And who says they aren't abundant, you? Where do the adult insects come from if the nymphs aren't there anymore??

DryFlyFishing wrote: »

ask yourself what perch eat primarily...

ask yourself how fast is the perch population growing...

I don't know, but I'm sure the scientists who carry out the surveys and advise the fisheries board do. Do you have any quantitative data, apart from your own observations while angling??

DryFlyFishing wrote: »

ask yourself why are the trout on average getting smaller over the past two years.. they were getting bigger on average until you lot cut the weed when the pike were spawning...

You lot again? I've never cut any weed in my life either. But I would hazard a guess that the wet summers of the last 3 years has meant very high survival of trout parr in the streams, as the streams haven't dried up = more habitat and food available. As these parr grow and recruit to the lake population, they will skew the average size of trout. This has happened before, and it will happen again. Most anglers recognise that a lot of small trout means over the next few years we should have good fishing as these fish grow larger. I met and fished with a few guides over the olive/mayfly period this year, and they were delighted to see so many small fish - to them its a good sign for the future.

DryFlyFishing wrote: »

all i am asking is to stop cutting the weed when the pike are spawning... for above reasons... and if you don't think that there is enough there.... well i presume you are only into getting your salmon stocks high... and don't give a sh** about anything else.... and even though pike would like to eat your salmon smolts they dont do much damage in Louch Corrib itself...

pike will stay near the shoals of perch.. they dont move location at a certain time of year to kill off your smolts... and trout are to fast for pike in general

Trout are too fast for pike?? Either you're having a laugh, clutching at straws, or you haven't a clue. I know which one I'd go for...

DryFlyFishing · 27-06-2010 7:58pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Really? So those big hatches of duckfly, olives, mayfly and buzzer that I saw this year aren't traditional? They must be new fangled flies so, if the "traditional" nymphs are gone...

You must have caught some mighty fish if they were that plentiful? Those giant trout would have come up and eaten everything around them...Do tell i love a fishy tale...

Zzippy wrote: »

Only pike I ever killed were in Northern Ireland on a survey. And pike have been controlled with nets on Corrib for over 100 years.

Nets are not fish specific.. so they do not target just pike... so they only kill a bit of everything...don’t unbalance the lakes fish types... and have not been used on Lough Corrib in years.

Zzippy wrote: »

"Traditional" nymphs? And who says they aren't abundant, you? Where do the adult insects come from if the nymphs aren't there anymore??

LMAO – you probably have never seen that lake in the good times... if you don’t believe me ask a competition angler.. someone who knows his stuff and is not being paid to keep you happy...

Zzippy wrote: »

I don't know, but I'm sure the scientists who carry out the surveys and advise the fisheries board do. Do you have any quantitative data, apart from your own observations while angling??

LMAO – all my data is quantitative iv been keeping it for years...

Zzippy wrote: »

But I would hazard a guess that the wet summers of the last 3 years has meant very high survival of trout parr in the streams, as the streams haven't dried up = more habitat and food available. As these parr grow and recruit to the lake population, they will skew the average size of trout.
This has happened before, and it will happen again. Most anglers recognise that a lot of small trout means over the next few years we should have good fishing as these fish grow larger. I met and fished with a few guides over the olive/mayfly period this year, and they were delighted to see so many small fish - to them its a good sign for the future.

Guides are there to keep an angler on the fish and keep you happy.. but they do talk about stuff they don’t mean... trying to put a positive spin on it all ... they really want to say .... jesus this lake is full of crappy small fish... why the hell are they not growing this year... the small fish were never this small ...ever..... and where the hell are the bigger fish... jesus i cant seem to get a decent fish off this lake anymore on the fly... whats going on... ...

Or have you personally caught many a big fish during the day 9am-7pm on the corrib this year or last ??????

Zzippy wrote: »

Trout are too fast for pike?? Either you're having a laugh, clutching at straws, or you haven't a clue. I know which one I'd go for...

Yes trout are a bit tricky for a pike to catch... easier for them to just eat a perch in Lough Corrib.. have you personally ever observed the way lough corrib pike behave?

Zzippy · 28-06-2010 10:26am

DryFlyFishing wrote: »

Nets are not fish specific.. so they do not target just pike... so they only kill a bit of everything...don’t unbalance the lakes fish types... and have not been used on Lough Corrib in years.

This alone tells me you have no idea what you're talking about. Gillnets and electrofishing are used each and every year on Corrib to remove pike. The mesh size and areas fished ensures that 95% of the fish taken in the nets are pike. Large pike are released again, smaller pike are culled. Anyone who fishes Corrib regularly knows they are used.
I'm out of this thread, pointless debating with someone who has silly theories, no facts to back them up, and clearly little knowledge of how the lake is actually managed.

DryFlyFishing · 28-06-2010 11:18am

Zzippy wrote: »

The mesh size and areas fished ensures that 95% of the fish taken in the nets are pike.

net size holes - rubbish... iv seen small fish in nets for salmon, so your not leaving the nets over night then... its all done there and then... ok.... so you are able to release fish...

Zzippy wrote: »

Large pike are released again, smaller pike are culled. Anyone who fishes Corrib regularly knows they are used.

i did not know you were killing the pike that systematically... and i fish the lake a lot...

jesus it gets worse.....

here we go again ... kill all the small pike... jesus your not even happy with killing all of the spawn in loads of bays / locations... well to be fair to the WRFB - I dont think they knew they were killing all the pike spawn.... in all those locations when cutting the weed in March and April....

I think you lot have miss calculated the amount of pike you have killed ....... you have destroyed the lake.

you never told me how crap the lake fished for you and for everyone else...

the lake is managed crap... that is why i dont know how you are doing it.. ... the lake should be managed on how good it fishes... and there is a big problem... for someone that manages fisheries... it seems clear you cant catch decent corrib trout on the fly.

it also tells me ... that you dont understand that the more fly there is the bigger the fish comes to the surface and the longer he stays there...

there is not enough fly comeing up during the day any more.. fly hatches are stuffed.... because perch ate all the nymphs

something is becoming apparent - current fishery management does not produce the best fishing conditions...

why does the fishery management not manage the fly hatches to... well they do ... but what they are doing is having the complete opposite effect that is needed...

DryFlyFishing · 30-06-2010 12:28pm

Zzippy wrote: »

I really do wonder how supposedly intelligent people can post such utter rubbish on these boards. What's even more ironic is these people's utter certainty in their beliefs, even if they are contrary to scientific principles, years of research, educated opinion of highly respected scientists, etc. Oh no, they're right and everyone else is wrong.

Good man yourself!

people like you and your scientist are crap at fishing and you dont know the first thing about catching decent sized fish on the fly.. all you lot try and do is boost stocks of fish that are priority to you and whatever governing body...

it is a big pity that you don’t understand how to produce a lake that fishes well .....

Lough Corrib should be handed back to the fishermen who know that the pike should not be killed because they create balance and kill the perch ...

the problem with lough corrib is , 99% of the day there is not enough fly coming up ... Why? because the perch ate it all...

trout caught are very small on average. why? because they compete with food with the perch. And there is not enough food for the bigger trout to come near the surface to eat your wet or dry fly.. (corrib has tons of big trout in it... why do they stay deep now in recent years...) or why are trout not in the shallows like the old days? because perch shoals eat all the food.. why would a trout be there if there is no food.

Anyone seeing a pattern...

coolwings · 30-06-2010 12:43pm

DryFlyFishing wrote: »

....the problem with lough corrib is , 99% of the day there is not enough fly coming up ... Why? because the perch ate it all...

(I can't bear to read any more of this ....

)

DFF - you still ignore 100s of tons of roach and what they eat!

Plenty of forage fish make the trout bigger, and harder to catch on tiny flies.
Try a polystickle for a change, but get up early. See what is going on in the perch fry shoals at dawn.

DryFlyFishing wrote: »

... Anyone seeing a pattern...

Bigtime ....

BoarHunter · 30-06-2010 1:27pm

DFF you should create a Company to fish perch industrialy and sale it to the continental market where they like it. Would make your stock of perch going down in Corrib

, would create jobs on top of that. A good exemple of what can be done in an ecofriendly manner :rolleyes:

DryFlyFishing · 30-06-2010 1:28pm

coolwings wrote: »

(I can't bear to read any more of this ...... )

DFF - you still ignore 100s of tons of roach and what they eat!

Plenty of forage fish make the trout bigger, and harder to catch on tiny flies.
Try a polystickle for a change, but get up early. See what is going on in the perch fry shoals at dawn.

now your just complicating things.. the pike will kill them also...

point is ... dont kill the pike....

DryFlyFishing · 30-06-2010 1:31pm

BoarHunter wrote: »

DFF you should create a Company to fish perch industrialy and sale it to the continental market where they like it. Would make your stock of perch going down in Corrib , would create jobs on top of that. A good exemple of what can be done in an ecofriendly manner :rolleyes:

i suggested selling the perch earlier... lol ... but exporting them to countries that prize the fish for maximum profit... hmmmmm ... i like it lol....

Hay WRFB .... go sell the perch if you need some cash so you can cut the weed 24/7... LMAO

ironbluedun · 30-06-2010 1:36pm

DryFlyFishing wrote: »

[C]Lough Corrib should be handed back to the fishermen who know that the pike should not be killed because they create balance and kill the perch ]

this is the most accurate statement you have ever made......well done.

DryFlyFishing · 30-06-2010 2:00pm

ironbluedun wrote: »

this is the most accurate statement you have ever made......well done.

thank you... lol:)

ironbluedun · 30-06-2010 2:51pm

DryFlyFishing wrote: »

thank you... lol:)

It is an old mantra of mine that game fisheries would be better if run and managed by LOCAL clubs/associations/co-ops whatever you want to call them, for sake of argument I will call them clubs….. maybe with a central state monitoring agency having a ‘supervisory/advisory’ role………the revenue raised by the ‘clubs’ would go into the proper no nonsense management of the fisheries…..yes proper management, that is really what all of this stuff in this thread about… …….but such a system of course would depend on anglers paying and putting the hand in the pocket… many are not fond of that concept…(even though some gladly pay €600+ for a rod!!!) but considering that I believe that most sensible anglers will pay a reasonable sensible fee for good angling.......after all if you think about it if it was not for the local clubs fishing would be in a far worse state than it is….imagine if the clubs had more control over their waters…..

DryFlyFishing · 30-06-2010 3:05pm

ironbluedun wrote: »

It is an old mantra of mine that game fisheries would be better if run and managed by LOCAL clubs/associations/co-ops whatever you want to call them, for sake of argument I will call them clubs….. maybe with a central state monitoring agency having a ‘supervisory/advisory’ role………the revenue raised by the ‘clubs’ would go into the proper no nonsense management of the fisheries…..yes proper management, that is really what all of this stuff in this thread about… …….but such a system of course would depend on anglers paying and putting the hand in the pocket… many are not fond of that concept…(even though some gladly pay €600+ for a rod!!!) but considering that I believe that most sensible anglers will pay a reasonable sensible fee for good angling.......after all if you think about it if it was not for the local clubs fishing would be in a far worse state than it is….imagine if the clubs had more control over their waters…..

now now... 600 for a rod... thats cheap... lol...

sure if a lake fished well it attracts tourism... pays for itself...

back in the old days when you had all the Fianna Failures on the lake it fished well... now there aint much knowledge in government only puppets looking for votes...

i did not vote for them ... did you...

BoarHunter · 30-06-2010 3:13pm

i hope you don't expect only the tourists to pay... look abroad and you will see the money you pay for a fishing licence only to fish perch & pike.... and trout waters are more expensive and limited in the number of anglers but in the other sense they repair the river banks, create more current where needed, create some good conditions for spawning. You have a lot of places with catch & release mandatory and so on.

Management has a price, Ireland is in a time with fresh memories of unspoilt waters but the population has now increase, the fishing is more popular than ever and if the management doesn't adapt then the wild fish will be soon near extinct.

ironbluedun · 30-06-2010 3:16pm

DryFlyFishing wrote: »

now now... 600 for a rod... thats cheep... lol...

sure if a lake fished well it attracts tourism... pays for itself...

back in the old days when you had all the Fianna Failures on the lake it fished well... now there aint much knowledge in government only puppets looking for votes...

i did not vote for them ... did you...

ah puppets looking for votes....
sadly there are few votes in angling....
I certainly did not and would not vote for those slobs……..
the problem the others are f**k all better……..a bunch of jim jankers the lot of them.........

DryFlyFishing · 30-06-2010 3:20pm

ironbluedun wrote: »

ah puppets looking for votes....
sadly there are few votes in angling....
I certainly did not and would not vote for those slobs……..
the problem the others are f**k all better……..a bunch of jim jankers the lot of them.........

put a W in front of this word ankers LMOA

ironbluedun · 30-06-2010 3:20pm

BoarHunter wrote: »

i hope you don't expect only the tourists to pay... look abroad and you will see the money you pay for a fishing licence only to fish perch & pike.... and trout waters are more expensive and limited in the number of anglers but in the other sense they repair the river banks, create more current where needed, create some good conditions for spawning. You have a lot of places with catch & release mandatory and so on.

Management has a price, Ireland is in a time with fresh memories of unspoilt waters but the population has now increase, the fishing is more popular than ever and if the management doesn't adapt then the wild fish will be soon near extinct.

BOARHUNTER....EVERYONE has to pay irrespective of where they are from or indeed how often they fish......everyone has to put their money where their mouths are........you are 100% right we are indeed living in the past.......time to wake up and cop on.........

ironbluedun · 30-06-2010 3:22pm

DryFlyFishing wrote: »

put a W in front of this word ankers LMOA

u got it in 1

DryFlyFishing · 30-06-2010 3:29pm

ironbluedun wrote: »

BOARHUNTER....EVERYONE has to pay irrespective of where they are from or indeed how often they fish......everyone has to put their money where their mouths are........you are 100% right we are indeed living in the past.......time to wake up and cop on.........

if they stoped killing the pike and cut the weed at the right time...id pay....

the fishing would be back to normal within 5-6 years...

sure we can only dream...:rolleyes:

sure a fly man would sell his soul for a week like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdXyjDVwSmw

little to say the salmon were not there this year on dry fly...

and far less big trout coming up..... during the day..and all because there is bugger all pike eating the perch etc that eat the nymphs...

Lough Corrib Pike Abortion

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