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M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works ongoing; 2025 start; 2028 completion]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭c montgomery


    plenty use it. I go there myself.

    Where do you enter and exit and how long is it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    I used to live on Marlborough Hill close to that "wooded area" . It's unused land that even teenagers don't use for drinking. No walks or anything there. Nothing worth keeping.
    If that's one of the points your objecting on you won't get very far.

    You are making weak arguments in fairness. Just because a wooded are isn't "used" does not mean it is fair game to be destroyed.
    And the less said about your earlier comment regarding pharma companies and money the better. You really aren't helping your side of the discussion here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭c montgomery


    Ludo wrote: »
    You are making weak arguments in fairness. Just because a wooded are isn't "used" does not mean it is fair game to be destroyed.
    And the less said about your earlier comment regarding pharma companies and money the better. You really aren't helping your side of the discussion here.

    Why, the " wooded area" is really only a few trees and could be put to better use.

    Ringaskiddy probably has 10,000 people working there many in the pharma sector and if you think money doesn't talk in Ireland then you need to take your head out of the sand.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    Why, the " wooded area" is really only a few trees and could be put to better use.

    Ringaskiddy probably has 10,000 people working there many in the pharma sector and if you think money doesn't talk in Ireland then you need to take your head out of the sand.

    Never siad it doesnt talk..just that it shouldnt be accepted as the be all end all as you seem to think. Pharma companies should have an input but no more than residents and other concerned parties. Roads is not what will make then stay or leave by the way..taxes will.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭c montgomery


    Ludo wrote: »
    Never siad it doesnt talk..just that it shouldnt be accepted as the be all end all as you seem to think. Pharma companies should have an input but no more than residents and other concerned parties. Roads is not what will make then stay or leave by the way..taxex will.

    It's not the be all and end all but they will have a louder voice than a few residents complaining about the removal of a few trees.
    A new Road might encourage more investment in the area by these companies and overall will be a positive thing.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,148 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    I've deleted the last few rather silly posts. Let's get this back on track.

    There is overwhelming support for this road from all quarters and all alternatives have already been examined and discarded. Worries about trees are unfounded as more trees will be planted as part of the works. Property prices will go up due to reduced congestion and most of the road is being built along or near to the existing alignment so there would not be much of an increase in noise or visual intrusion.

    From now on let's limit ourselves to discussion of the proposed plan instead of bleating about "alternatives".


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    MOD:

    Anyone who wants to discuss this scheme with relation to the general area around the existing N28 can do so in the Cork County forum

    This thread from now on is to be used for discussion of the M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy scheme, not the residents of Mount Oval

    Anyone with objections can raise them via PM with me, NOT on this thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭gerogerigegege


    spacetweek wrote: »
    I've deleted the last few rather silly posts. Let's get this back on track.

    There is overwhelming support for this road from all quarters and all alternatives have already been examined and discarded. Worries about trees are unfounded as more trees will be planted as part of the works. Property prices will go up due to reduced congestion and most of the road is being built along or near to the existing alignment so there would not be much of an increase in noise or visual intrusion.

    From now on let's limit ourselves to discussion of the proposed plan instead of bleating about "alternatives".

    can you provide an evidence whatsoever for what you are saying
    who are 'all quarters' please?
    links please on the plan to plant more trees? this is a wooded area. not just a bunch of trees. how will that be replaced?
    links please that home prices won't be affected?
    links to evidence no pollution of any kind will increase?
    feel free to let those worried know.

    do you have knowledge 1000s of residents don't have
    can I take this to the concerned committees, get onto the NRA with this seeing as you are so sure of your information?
    are you making up stories?
    otherwise it seems you dont like what you are hearing and have thrown a hissy fit.
    I await some facts from you.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    spacetweek wrote: »
    I've deleted the last few rather silly posts. Let's get this back on track.

    There is overwhelming support for this road from all quarters and all alternatives have already been examined and discarded. Worries about trees are unfounded as more trees will be planted as part of the works. Property prices will go up due to reduced congestion and most of the road is being built along or near to the existing alignment so there would not be much of an increase in noise or visual intrusion.

    From now on let's limit ourselves to discussion of the proposed plan instead of bleating about "alternatives".

    can you provide an evidence whatsoever for what you are saying
    who are 'all quarters' please?
    links please on the plan to plant more trees? this is a wooded area. not just a bunch of trees. how will that be replaced?
    links please that home prices won't be affected?
    links to evidence no pollution of any kind will increase?
    feel free to let those worried know.

    do you have knowledge 1000s of residents don't have
    can I take this to the concerned committees, get onto the NRA with this seeing as you are so sure of your information?
    are you making up stories?
    otherwise it seems you dont like what you are hearing and have thrown a hissy fit.
    I await some facts from you.
    I think the mod has spoken...

    ...this thread is for discussing the M28 as a transport project - not its effects on property.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    N28 closed this evening between Carrs Hill and Shannonpark due to a serious collision.

    Not only does this show the safety issues with the road, but the road is also closed and with no respectable alternative route for 5:30pm Friday evening traffic, it creates a dangerous situation with high volumes of traffic being pushed onto local roads.

    Shows the need for this scheme even more.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,934 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    There are several issues with this road in my experience...

    - The merge from Douglas (either direction) is too short, and certainly on the "towards Carrigaline" side it's signed at 80 as you go up the ramp.. except you're joining traffic rushing towards you at 100+!!
    - The same stretch is marked in such a way that heading towards the N40, you are supposedly allowed overtake on a bend just as traffic on the opposite side is filtering into one lane

    Any improvement would certainly be welcome IMO


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Now that everyone's back and everyone's favourite roads are jammed again, it's no surprise these are still a major issue in the local media.

    http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/ibec-calls-major-cork-road-projects-get-underway/2526413/


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0919/817474-ge-healthcare-cork/

    Jokes over. M28 has to go ahead now when ready.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,934 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    marno21 wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0919/817474-ge-healthcare-cork/

    Jokes over. M28 has to go ahead now when ready.

    Expect this to be fast-tracked myself once FF and Michael Martin/McGrath are back in power (within the next 6-12 months I reckon)

    Long overdue... I travel this road weekly and it's seriously not up to the volume of traffic using it, not to mention too narrow in places.


  • Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭gerogerigegege


    local groups met with Simon Coveney on Monday to voice their concerns


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    local groups met with Simon Coveney on Monday to voice their concerns

    He is the minister for house prices, I suppose.


  • Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭gerogerigegege


    Saturday 22nd October 2-6pm
    Public Meeting Rochestown Park Hotel
    Chaired by the M28 Steering Group


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Steering group? Is this a joke?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,560 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Saturday 22nd October 2-6pm
    Public Meeting Rochestown Park Hotel
    Chaired by the M28 Steering Group

    What are you steering? The name is attempting to give a completely untrue "official" ring to what is a talking shop for objectors.

    M28 ill informed, reactionary NIMBY group doesn't have a great ring to it; but it isn't lying.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,555 ✭✭✭kub


    Saturday 22nd October 2-6pm
    Public Meeting Rochestown Park Hotel
    Chaired by the M28 Steering Group

    Won't everyone be steering when they are driving on the M28? ;)


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/engineer-and-councillors-protest-new-m28-plans-over-pollution-426406.html

    I actually can't believe this nonsensical ****e is being taken seriously. The WHOLE OF CORK realises how important this scheme is to Cork and the wider country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭Baldilocks


    How do these objectors think that the M50, quays in Dublin, and all of the other significantly busier roads in the country operate???
    At least the objection regarding noise is an improvement over the "destruction of the 'scenic' Mulcon valley".

    Just because someone is an 'experienced' doesn't mean he/she is any good at their job! Donald Trump is an 'experienced' 'entrepeneur', and he's also an 'experienced' bankruptee.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    These are only ways of attacking the scheme. The main issue is perceived reduction in property values.

    I haven't a clue what will happen without this scheme. The traffic is horrendous and the port will have to remain in Tivoli.

    More stagnation in Cork. The one scheme which we're getting EU funding for and this is happening.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,555 ✭✭✭kub


    I agree, this is absolute rubbish, an improved road there will stop traffic jams which often occur at rush hour. Therefore I would suggest that the pollution from vehicles would actually reduce as they will not be static with engines running.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    marno21 wrote: »
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/engineer-and-councillors-protest-new-m28-plans-over-pollution-426406.html

    I actually can't believe this nonsensical ****e is being taken seriously. The WHOLE OF CORK realises how important this scheme is to Cork and the wider country.
    Before we break out the pitchforks, is there anything resembling a feasible alternative route proposed (in particular from the critics in the article)?

    Before anyone jumps to conclusions, I doubt it personally but I wanted to see if there was.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,241 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Before we break out the pitchforks, is there anything resembling a feasible alternative route proposed (in particular from the critics in the article)?

    Before anyone jumps to conclusions, I doubt it personally but I wanted to see if there was.

    It's hard to say definitively that NOBODY has a feasible alternative.

    But personally, all I have heard so far is "I'm not the engineer, it's not my job to propose an alternative".
    Which I consider to be an unacceptable response. I feel it's akin to "I know better than you when it comes to stopping this road, but you should know better than me when it comes to progressing it" which is basically an vicious circle preventing anything from ever being done.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    The only possible alternative in my eyes would be to route via Cobh and have a suspension bridge over Cork harbour.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The only possible alternative in my eyes would be to route via Cobh and have a suspension bridge over Cork harbour.

    Which would also require a major upgrade of the N25 main line and the Cobh junction.

    One of the best things about the M28 is the fact that the junction to connect it to the N40 is already built bar needing a few slight improvements.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,241 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    A proper linkage from Carrigaline to Ballygarvan and subsequent major upgrade of the Kinsale Road Roundabout and Frankfield.... it's unrealistic...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    A proper linkage from Carrigaline to Ballygarvan and subsequent major upgrade of the Kinsale Road Roundabout and Frankfield.... it's unrealistic...

    Kinsale Roundabout is jammed as is. You'd need to buy substantial land around it and you'd be looking at a huge build. I'd personally like to see the Old Kinsale Road and the Grange road having access removed. Would involve this road being tunneled under any upgraded interchange.

    The whole dynamic of junctions on the N28 around Rochestown need upgrading anyways. Seen as a huge solution to traffic issues in Douglas, Donnybrook and Grange in general.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    marno21 wrote: »
    Which would also require a major upgrade of the N25 main line and the Cobh junction.

    One of the best things about the M28 is the fact that the junction to connect it to the N40 is already built bar needing a few slight improvements.

    Imagine the cost of a suspension or cable stay bridge. Would also need to be quite elevated to allow shipping underneath.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Any alternative route would cost more and be less effective. We've been waiting for the N28 dualling for so long and it's even more important now with the Port relocation and all the new jobs in Ringaskiddy.

    Hopefully those NIMBYs will be shot down quickly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,560 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Before we break out the pitchforks, is there anything resembling a feasible alternative route proposed (in particular from the critics in the article)?

    Before anyone jumps to conclusions, I doubt it personally but I wanted to see if there was.

    We had someone claim to have an alternative on here, but when pressured the claim was slowly retracted to nothing, nothing at all. Despite them pleading for a petition with "alternative" in the title to be signed!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    L1011 wrote: »
    We had someone claim to have an alternative on here, but when pressured the claim was slowly retracted to nothing, nothing at all. Despite them pleading for a petition with "alternative" in the title to be signed!
    Aye, I remember that. A fairly ham-fisted effort at discussing whatever problems it might have. If house price fears are the *only* fear, then even that fear is little more than superstition.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Got an email from TII stating that this steering group has nothing to do with it and is in no way an official body.

    It's clear what this group is trying to do.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,148 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    They're not a steering group, they're a bunch of middle-aged busybodies who are meddling in the scheme design and ballsing it up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11 Nuf


    I came across this discussion today.
    It's a little unfortunate that all those not happy with the M28 are being portrayed as cranks. I am as interested as anyone in proper infrastructure and planned economic development but find it hard to reconcile this with the present plan.
    I have lived about 30m or so from the existing N28 for over 20yrs. The noise and vibration start about 6.30am and increase as the day wears on. Opening a window during the day floods the room with uncomfortable noise, so this is best avoided. According to Cork Co Co noise maps, our area already exceeds the WHO recommendations and the TII's own noise targets during the day and night. My children have grown up kicking ball with trucks passing almost overhead only metres away. I have never seen anyone monitoring noise or pollution in my area in the thirty years I am here.
    So NO, I am not happy with the proposed route. The prospect of hundreds more HGVs trundling past my house day and night is not nice. An Bord Pleanala refused permission for the port move in 2008 and as far as I'm concerned, none of the reasons for this refusal have changed. The TII's mission statement is to provide high quality transport infrastructure and services, delivering a better quality of life and supporting economic growth. I have seen no evidence in this area that the TII cares about quality of life, shoehorning a motorway through a residential area where it clearly will not fit.

    I can assure the cynics that my concerns are not about house values, mine has already taken that hit thanks.

    marno 21 hopes those NIMBYs will be shot down quickly . . . . thank you for this but I don't think euthanasia is legal in this country just yet :) However, we do have a planning process and I believe people have a right to use it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,560 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Nuf wrote: »
    I can assure the cynics that my concerns are not about house values, mine has already taken that hit thanks.

    The only attempt at an argument we had on here before today boiled down to solely house prices.

    Have you got an alternative suggestion?

    If you don't, being brutally honest nobody on here is going to have the time of day for you. The road pre-existed your house. Ports can grow (or wither), you should have know that on buying.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11 Nuf


    Thanks for your reply but I lived here peacefully BEFORE construction of the road. Don't worry though, I forgive your inaccuracy!

    Also, I'm not looking for sympathy, just explaining that there is another side to the debate.

    I'm not necessarily advocating the alternative route suggested via the airport but I do have enough experience of the TII to have no confidence in them to properly protect or shield the houses in my area from the negative effects of the proposed new motorway.

    The infrastructure experts here are talking nobly at a macro level. I would ask them to come down to ground level and live in my shoes for a few days . . . .


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Nuf wrote: »
    Thanks for your reply but I lived here peacefully BEFORE construction of the road. Don't worry though, I forgive your inaccuracy!

    Also, I'm not looking for sympathy, just explaining that there is another side to the debate.

    I'm not necessarily advocating the alternative route suggested via the airport but I do have enough experience of the TII to have no confidence in them to properly protect or shield the houses in my area from the negative effects of the proposed new motorway.

    The infrastructure experts here are talking nobly at a macro level. I would ask them to come down to ground level and live in my shoes for a few days . . . .
    Where along the route do you live, is it between the South Ring Rd and Carrs Hill or between Carrs Hill and Ringaskiddy?

    If the latter, the new route will be built further away from your house. The TII will also by law have to erect soundproof barriers between you and the road so you will hear very little. If you live along the section of the N28 that was built in 1995 between Carrs Hill and the N40 South Ring, then you will have the barriers AND you will have major traffic relief in your area by the upgrading of the substandard road network.

    This is pure NIMBYism. They're not going building the road through your back garden, if they were your house would have been CPOd. The existing N28 is unsafe and a massive drain on the economy of Cork.

    Also, it's your NIMBY-esqure plans being shot down. I'm not advocating assassination of the M28 Steering Group (yet).


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    what has me baffled is where this new motorway, or upgrade of old road, should go if it doesnt essentially follow the current path.

    It could go to the Airport and you get onto the south ring at the Kinsale roundabout, but that road and junction is already chronically busy with 20,000 AADT, so adding another 25,000 to it just would not work. Also interesting to note there that the N28 has more traffic than the airport road, so its busier than a busy road, and you cant just dump that traffic randomly onto the south ring.

    It could be routed by the coast, but it would be mass demolition to get it to the existing junction. You might consider following the old rail line, but it lands beside mahon point, so you'd have to demolish the half of the retail park, and then start to worry on how to merge 25000 cars into the already busy mahon point junction.

    So, if the alternative routes are unfeasible, and the locals manage to get enough pressure that the current route isnt upgraded, then youre left with no changes and the locals still cant open their windows from 6.30 in the morning.

    If you got an upgrade with proper soundproofing then surely it'd be an improvement.
    For example, heres what residents in north Munich got with the upgrade of the A9 motorway to reduce noise polution. Surely that would be something to look for in cork ? (note the curved profile to focus the sound and send it back into the road)
    A9_00455.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭Baldilocks


    Nuf, your concerns are not unreasonable. You should have got some noise reduction barriers, but I suspect they didn't go up in the '90s when the road was built as they weren't a requirement then.
    The road is going to get busier regardless of the port, the pharma plants in Ringaskiddy are in expansion mode and new ones are being built. The port will only contribute a small percentage to the overall quantity of traffic. The reality of the situation is that an extra lane is being added, and so 3 lanes will become 4, 2 in each direction, and the bottle neck at the top of the hill will be removed (which should reduce the traffic jams that occasionally occur on the hill).
    Given the lack of cost effective alternative, surely it would be better to engage with the process and ensure that appropriate remediation measures are installed.

    Lastly, if you bought your house 20yrs ago, I very much doubt that it is worth less now, than it was when you bought it. You're still living in a desirable part of Cork, where houses rarely spend any great length of time on the market.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,241 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Question for those in the know: tunneling through Maryborough Hill/Carrs Hill, I realise would be extremely expensive, but would it be technically viable?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,560 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Nuf wrote: »
    Thanks for your reply but I lived here peacefully BEFORE construction of the road. Don't worry though, I forgive your inaccuracy!

    The newest bit of the road was built 21 years ago. It was in planning for significantly longer than that.

    Are you there from before the planning was initiated?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11 Nuf


    TII is legally obliged to put in barriers? Have you a link for this please? I know there are design targets but if there is legal effect to a certain maximum noise level then it's news to me.

    I've lived on the north side of the Rochestown Road for 30.3 yrs and was in a position to make a submission following the EIS on Mulcon Valley way back when. Does this answer the IYOFF point? (It's your own . . .)
    Seven lanes here are due to become eight and people are correct, we got no proper sound barriers last time out but did get plenty of excuses about the space available etc

    munchkin_utd Thanks for the pic. A barrier like that would be absolutely fantastic. The TII's own guidelines though first encourage good design as the best way to deal with potential noise problems by adopting a noise-sensitive horizontal and vertical alignment for new road projects - I believe that the road should have been moved eastwards towards the church to allow for an appropriate level of embankment and screening. I eagerly await the Environmental Impact study but somehow feel that it'll only contain proposals for panels of wooden fencing at best rather than a properly designed and effective barrier of an appropriate height and density such as the one you've shown.

    Sorry for being so localised here but when you are so adversely affected it's not always so easy to see bigger picture in black and white terms as clearly as some contributors here


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,560 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    You said "over 20 years". Over 30 is over 20 but saying over 20 suggests under 30. By some margin as many would say 'nearly 30' from 25+


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11 Nuf


    I have lived in my house for over 30yrs because that's how long I've lived here. I've lived over 20yrs beside the road because that's how long the road has been there!
    So to summarise:
    House > 30 yrs old
    But Road > 20yrs old < 30 yrs old


  • Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭gerogerigegege




  • Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭gerogerigegege


    marno21 wrote: »
    Where along the route do you live, is it between the South Ring Rd and Carrs Hill or between Carrs Hill and Ringaskiddy?

    If the latter, the new route will be built further away from your house. The TII will also by law have to erect soundproof barriers between you and the road so you will hear very little. If you live along the section of the N28 that was built in 1995 between Carrs Hill and the N40 South Ring, then you will have the barriers AND you will have major traffic relief in your area by the upgrading of the substandard road network.

    This is pure NIMBYism. They're not going building the road through your back garden, if they were your house would have been CPOd. The existing N28 is unsafe and a massive drain on the economy of Cork.

    Also, it's your NIMBY-esqure plans being shot down. I'm not advocating assassination of the M28 Steering Group (yet).
    absolutely.
    I don't want a motorway beside my home or destroying local wooded area.
    neither do very many others.
    saying its NIMBY-ism is correct. not in my back yard !!!


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    MOD:

    Right, this is enough.

    From now on, this thread is to be used for ONLY discussion related to the PROGRESSION of the M28 Cork - Ringaskiddy motorway scheme, by those users of the forum who all agree on it's crucialness to the development of the economy of Cork.

    All anti M28 discussion and it's related NIMBYism is to be kept to this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=101429361#post101429361



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