gas boiler issue / system not flushed

sweetie · 12-03-2013 1:26pm #1

I have a biasi riva advance HE installed maybe 4/5 years ago and was assured by the installer that he would flush the system as I had read that it was required. Fast forward to November and I purchased a living social Boiler service and system flush from a dublin plumbing and gas company (yes I know, I know, never again!) and whilst I wasnt there at the time I was left with a readout/receipt of combustion etc and was happy enough that the work was completed.

Then last week my heating started acting up, not coming on sometimes in the morning and eventually not working at all forthe weekend just gone.
I then decided to get a different RGI plumber who was recommended in my job and had him look at it today. He informs me the pcb needs replacing and that the system was clogged up with gunk and did the guy who installed it not flush the system as he should? I told him he said he did but I also had it flushed a few months back and he informs me it definitely wasn't at either time.

I am annoyed at both the installer and most recent servicer and whilst too much time has passed for the former to be made answerable i'm considering contacting the most recent servicer and asking for an explanation and compensation for the damage incurred. I've no idea what the cost will be but I feel they have done a shoddy job and will go the small claims court way should I have no success. Am I wasting my time?

12-03-2013 2:23pm

Sadly this a very common occurrence and nobody cares:(, in a ideal world you should be able to report any card carring RGI that works outside of manufactures instructions or gas regs and expect the licensing body to take action on your behalf once a issue has been identified by a a competent RGI, but that's not going to happen.

You could try the RGI who flushed it and give them the chance to do the right thing, I think though you would have better luck in the small claims court armed with the reports from the last engineer and who ever does the flush.

You will have to get a power flush which will prevent any further issues but will not repair any damage (if any) caused by the contamination.

shane0007 · 13-03-2013 12:01am

How do you know that the system has not sludged up in the last 4/5 years from being re-oxygenated or electrolytic actions. Was the system drained since the new boiler installed?
Saying that few installers had Powerflushing machines and it was not widespread practice then. Did he say he would flush or powerflush? There is enormous difference.

13-03-2013 1:10am

shane0007 wrote: »

Did he say he would flush or powerflush? There is enormous difference.

You and I know the difference but anyone paying for a "flush" would have the right to expect a clean system after, it's unfortunate that cowboys can happily earn a living doing half a job with little or no come back.

OP if you want a good flusher talk to Shane here, he does what it says on the tin:)

sweetie · 13-03-2013 10:58am

shane0007 wrote: »

How do you know that the system has not sludged up in the last 4/5 years from being re-oxygenated or electrolytic actions. Was the system drained since the new boiler installed?
Saying that few installers had Powerflushing machines and it was not widespread practice then. Did he say he would flush or powerflush? There is enormous difference.

I wouldnt know the difference but I expected the job to be done right. The RGI I had out yesterday is certain it has never been flushed and has never seen a boiler so new (installed jan '09) in such a bad state with buildup of sludge. He tells me the pcb needs replacing (460 + labour - although the heating has been working the last few days? I guess its on it's last legs) but then he's not sure if the heat exchanger will work due to the build up from the system and has said we might be better getting a brand new boiler as he cant guarantee that fixing the pcb will be the end of our problems. I'm pretty confused, I thought it would be fixable but it looks like I wasted 2k four years ago. Any advice welcome.

If I decide to go the new boiler route am I entitled to a grant (never claimed before) to ease the burden a bit?

shane0007 · 13-03-2013 11:07am

sweetie wrote: »

I wouldnt know the difference but I expected the job to be done right. The RGI I had out yesterday is certain it has never been flushed and has never seen a boiler so new (installed jan '09) in such a bad state with buildup of sludge. He tells me the pcb needs replacing (460 + labour - although the heating has been working the last few days? I guess its on it's last legs) but then he's not sure if the heat exchanger will work due to the build up from the system and has said we might be better getting a brand new boiler as he cant guarantee that fixing the pcb will be the end of our problems. I'm pretty confused, I thought it would be fixable but it looks like I wasted 2k four years ago. Any advice welcome.

If I decide to go the new boiler route am I entitled to a grant (never claimed before) to ease the burden a bit?

PCB's do not break down due to sludge!
There is no grant available for boiler replacement only. You must do heating controls also to obtain the grant.

13-03-2013 11:24am

If it were me I would get it powerflushed as a given, I would fit a magna clean to help protect against this happening to the boiler again and if I needed a part I might get it elsewhere to be fitted by a Rgi of course.

http://www.boilerpartscenter.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=455#container

http://www.akgas.co.uk/Biasi-PCB/BIASI-RIVA-ADVANCE-HE-PCB-BI1805101.html

shane0007 · 13-03-2013 11:31am

Yes, of course, it needs to be properly powerflushed now. Whether it needs a new boiler or not is what I am suspicious of!

sweetie · 13-03-2013 11:35am

shane0007 wrote: »

PCB's do not break down due to sludge!
There is no grant available for boiler replacement only. You must do heating controls also to obtain the grant.

My layman's understanding was that the pcb was damaged by the boiler overworking due to the sludge and the RGI mentioned solder may have melted? Saying that it was an intermittent problem for a week or so and has worked as expected since the RGI visited yesterday.

ok thanks. I already have controls on each rad.

gary71 wrote: »

If it were me I would get it powerflushed as a given, I would fit a magna clean to help protect against this happening to the boiler again and if I needed a part I might get it elsewhere to be fitted by a Rgi of course.

http://www.boilerpartscenter.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=455#container

http://www.akgas.co.uk/Biasi-PCB/BIASI-RIVA-ADVANCE-HE-PCB-BI1805101.html

shane0007 wrote: »

Yes, of course, it needs to be properly powerflushed now. Whether it needs a new boiler or not is what I am suspicious of!

I'll certainly be getting it power flushed and will look into the links above. I trust this new RGI and it was an option he mentioned as he said the if the HE needs to be replaced in addition to replacing the pcb then it's already getting very pricey so it may be less costly to go with a new one...The boiler wouldnt be a great brand in the first place in his opinion.

I appreciate your comments guys.

shane0007 · 13-03-2013 11:49am

sweetie wrote: »

My layman's understanding was that the pcb was damaged by the boiler overworking due to the sludge and the RGI mentioned solder may have melted? Saying that it was an intermittent problem for a week or so and has worked as expected since the RGI visited yesterday.

ok thanks. I already have controls on each rad.

I'll certainly be getting it power flushed and will look into the links above. I trust this new RGI and it was an option he mentioned as he said the that if the HE needs to be replaced on top of as replacing the pcb then it'salready getting very pricey it may be less costly to go with a new one...The boiler wouldnt be a great brand in the first place in his opinion.

I appreciate your comments guys.

Solder cannot be melted on the PCB from the heat exchanger. This is nonsense.
It sounds like the issue is a circulation issue and the PCB does not need to be replaced. Stabbing at the dark does not justify the customer paying the installer's lack of knowledge.

TRV's on rads does not qualify for controls. It is only one partnof the measure.

I would Powerflush first & look at further action needed.

sweetie · 13-03-2013 12:01pm

The costs of those parts seems very reasonable (compared to Ireland) and makes me feel its worth trying to fix the problem. Assuming I get the system powerflushed and install the magna clean how much should I expect it to cost for approximately?

Then if I need to get the pcb and/or the heat exchanger replaced also, how much should these jobs cost for labour too. I'm led to believe they are quite time consuming.

Again, thanks for your time.

13-03-2013 12:57pm

sweetie wrote: »

The boiler wouldnt be a great brand in the first place in his opinion.
.

It's not the boilers fault, it's a installation fault.

Agreeing with Shane the explanation given by your RGI for the defective pcb is not one I have ever seen or would ever expect to see.

A good RGI can normally save the boiler when the flush is done right, you wouldn't wast money on a flush as if you had to replace the boiler you're system is already flushed allowing for a quicker boiler exchange.

Like Shane I would want to see how things worked after a good flush before I spent money on fixing the boiler.

Fitting a pcb should only be a callout €80-€90 and a heat exchanger shouldn't take much longer, although with the price of a heat exchanger I would prefer a new boiler.

I'll let others quote for a flush and fit a magna clean as I'm to lazy to do proper work.

shane0007 · 13-03-2013 1:24pm

How many rads are in the system?
Powerflush usually in realms of €450 for a standard house of 10 rads. Fitting a Magnacleanse or Fernox TF1 would be €150 - €175 depending on where it can be fitted, i.e. does pipework have to be altered to fit it in withit looking like a pig's ear!

sweetie · 13-03-2013 1:51pm

gary71 wrote: »

It's not the boilers fault, it's a installation fault.

Agreeing with Shane the explanation given by your RGI for the defective pcb is not one I have ever seen or would ever expect to see.

A good RGI can normally save the boiler when the flush is done right, you wouldn't wast money on a flush as if you had to replace the boiler you're system is already flushed allowing for a quicker boiler exchange.

Like Shane I would want to see how things worked after a good flush before I spent money on fixing the boiler.

Fitting a pcb should only be a callout €80-€90 and a heat exchanger shouldn't take much longer, although with the price of a heat exchanger I would prefer a new boiler.

I'll let others quote for a flush and fit a magna clean as I'm to lazy to do proper work.

thanks - I'll ask him further about the pcb issue as I may have misunderstood. The sites you linked earlier have Biasi Heat exchanger for a Riva Advance HE for £86 or am I missing something?

shane0007 wrote: »

How many rads are in the system?
Powerflush usually in realms of €450 for a standard house of 10 rads. Fitting a Magnacleanse or Fernox TF1 would be €150 - €175 depending on where it can be fitted, i.e. does pipework have to be altered to fit it in withit looking like a pig's ear!

There are 8 rads in the house in total, not sure about the pipework, we have the boiler in a press.

thanks again.

13-03-2013 2:16pm

sweetie wrote: »

The sites you linked earlier have Biasi Heat exchanger for a Riva Advance HE for £86 or am I missing something?

I would expect to pay €350-€450ish, there can be two heat exchangers, one is the main one, the other is if you have a combi and this one is relatively cheap.

corkgsxr · 13-03-2013 2:45pm

i think someones having ya on alright.

if its a pcb problem its not a sludge problem. one or the other.

and as sed melting solder from the boiler. it that was the case the whole thing would be on fire first.

and 4-5 years anything could have happened

K.Flyer · 13-03-2013 10:50pm

sweetie wrote: »

I wouldnt know the difference but I expected the job to be done right. The RGI I had out yesterday is certain it has never been flushed and has never seen a boiler so new (installed jan '09) in such a bad state with buildup of sludge. He tells me the pcb needs replacing (460 + labour - although the heating has been working the last few days? I guess its on it's last legs) but then he's not sure if the heat exchanger will work due to the build up from the system and has said we might be better getting a brand new boiler as he cant guarantee that fixing the pcb will be the end of our problems. I'm pretty confused, I thought it would be fixable but it looks like I wasted 2k four years ago. Any advice welcome.

If I decide to go the new boiler route am I entitled to a grant (never claimed before) to ease the burden a bit?

I am sorry to say, but it sounds to me that your second RGI is getting his wires crossed.

460 + Labour is a bit stiff for pcb replacement!!

PCBs do not cause sludging and sludging does not affect PCBs.

I have seen Ideal mini PCBs give solder problems on the fuse holder, which in turn have caused eratic behaviour, but they are a very easy repair.

Follow the advice given and get it power flushed first, if the system is not circulating properly it can cause your boiler to perform badly.

sweetie · 14-03-2013 11:43pm

Ok lads I'm looking for someone who is available to do this power flush. I've decided to part ways with the other guy. Pm me if interested. Based in Dublin 7. Cheers

gas boiler issue / system not flushed

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