Royal Dublin Fusiliers

phaethon · 18-07-2011 9:01pm #1

Hi guys,

I picked up some kind a metal insignia to the RDF and I would like to query what exactly I have now. I think they are collar tabs or shoulder board letters from WW1 period. Maybe some expert here can help me?:cool:

Regards,

Timo aka Phaethon

kabakuyu · 19-07-2011 12:34am

it is a shoulder title,it would have had an exploding grenade above it,it was used up to 1922 by enlisted men.

phaethon · 19-07-2011 1:08am

Prefect! Thanks for the information! I will start posting under here my RDF related items for queries... interesting unit what I am more and more keen as a collector.;)

Thanks again,

Timo

phaethon · 23-07-2011 10:14am

My next pick up for 5 euro (I hope I didn't pay too much:D):

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]A War Office letter from Col. J. Hamilton Military Secretary, to Captain Horrocks of the 2nd Batallion Royal Dublin Fusiliers, informing of His Royal Highness C in C of the Regiments decision to turn down his provisional promotion. Dated the 27th December 1894. Some tears along the folds otherwise a nice piece of militay history:cool:[/FONT]

Its pretty long and big piece of paper, so I scanned it in two parts.

kowloon · 26-07-2011 12:01am

phaethon wrote: »

My next pick up for 5 euro (I hope I didn't pay too much:D):
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]A War Office letter from Col. J. Hamilton Military Secretary, to Captain Horrocks of the 2nd Batallion Royal Dublin Fusiliers, informing of His Royal Highness C in C of the Regiments decision to turn down his provisional promotion. Dated the 27th December 1894. Some tears along the folds otherwise a nice piece of militay history:cool:[/FONT]

I was looking at the picture for the wet damage until I realised I read it wrong

.

phaethon · 26-07-2011 12:15am

Ahaaa:D

Here is my today's pick up - is it original RDF cap badge?

kowloon · 26-07-2011 2:42pm

Do you use the Kipling & King book for ID or something else?

phaethon · 26-07-2011 6:23pm

kowloon wrote: »

Do you use the Kipling & King book for ID or something else?

Can you please tell me more what book it is?

kowloon · 27-07-2011 12:56pm

phaethon wrote: »

Can you please tell me more what book it is?

I had to look it up myself when I first saw it.

A lot of the militaria dealers might have beside each listing something like: KK451.

Turns out it referred to the plates in a two volume set:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Head-dress-Badges-British-Army-1800-1918/dp/1843425122/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311767206&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Headdress-Badges-British-Army-Present/dp/0584109482/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1311767206&sr=8-2

Was just wondering if everyone who collects British cap badges follows these.

I know a lot of areas of collecting have their collecting bible, was wondering if these were the books to get.

I used to buy cap badges with my pocket money when I was in school, (a single into town only cost 35p and the badges were cheap enough that restrikes weren't common).

phaethon · 30-07-2011 12:00am

No, it is my very first or second British cap badge ever what I have been picked up.
Only this type of "collector's bibles" what I have are regarding German ribbons, Nimmergut catalogues, etc only.

Actually it would be maybe beneficial idea to make a post with the listsings of reference mnaterials and comments which one can be listed "must have".

Here is the best translation of the letter what I have:

No.7247
C. in .C's Office

Fort William

27th Dec 1894
Copy of a letter from Military Secretary, H. Gds(Horse Guards) to H. E. the C. in C. in India, No.107/102/65 ? War Office 28th November 1894.

I am directed by H.R.H. the C. in C. to acknowledge receipt of your letter of the 27th ulto, & to aquaint you in reply that H.R.H. does not consider the reasons given by Captn A.M. Horrocks, 2nd R. Dub Fus sufficient to justify his being promoted provisionaly.

Forwarded for Information
Sig J. Hamilton Col
Mily Secty

True copy forwarded for info
B.O.

?/1/95 ? ? Captain

Adjutant, 2nd R. Dub Fus

To Captain A.M. Horrocks
2nd R. Dub Fus

phaethon · 30-07-2011 12:19am

I will post some of my most interesting RDF medal sets up here shortly as well.

But next today I would like to ask a question about the photo below.... is it reprint and has some of you guys have seen it before? Picture of two POWs - one of them is Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Looks "fresh" but I am not an expert. Hopefully Morlar can take a look when we meet next time:cool:

Looks like RDF cap badge?

kowloon · 30-07-2011 12:24am

phaethon wrote: »

Actually it would be maybe beneficial idea to make a post with the listsings of reference mnaterials and comments which one can be listed "must have".

Not a bad idea, and some of the references are collectible in their own right.

phaethon · 30-07-2011 12:29am

kowloon - you shoot away first! ( I am looking my typing and I actually should go to bed - way too much vino tonight:D)

phaethon · 22-08-2011 10:41pm

Today's arrival. Someone, who have similar ones, how mine looks - is it original period service dress button. Made by ARMFIELD LTD. BIRMINGHAM. Are these even faked?:eek:

As you can see, loop is missing but I paid only few euros for that, so it will be fine for a display until I can "updgrade" it.

kabakuyu · 26-08-2011 11:05pm

Looks good to me armfield is a well known maker of military buttons.
good link here to help date it.

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/pages/button-makers.html#anchora

R.Dub.Fusilier · 26-08-2011 11:47pm

got this letter in a book that i got about two months ago, the book belonged to a former brigader in the british army. the letter was addressed to him and was from AE Mainwaring in relation to subscribers who helped pay for the first printing of "The Records of 2nd Battalion RDF" letter and book are dated 1911

R.Dub.Fusilier · 26-08-2011 11:50pm

AE Mainwarings medal index card

phaethon · 29-08-2011 10:48pm

And here is my next RDF related find. Only reference material regarding insignia for RDF what I have is one page on the well known book "Crown and Company".

Anyway guys. Is this pre WW1 period collar tab for Royal Dublin Fusiliers 1st and 2nd Battalions? Can someone date it even more?

Regards,

Timo

molders · 05-09-2011 8:44pm

Those Mainwaring letters are interesting, did you know that they were in the book when you bought it?

Mainwaring's book was Volumn 1 up to 1911 and Colonel Wylly wrote the second volumn that covered 1911 to 1922. The attached photos show the Regiment's presentation copy of the 2nd volumn of "Crown and Company"to the author. Its a leather bound book with gilt edged pages and a book mark that features the regimental colours. The regiment's badge is inset into the front cover in gilt.

phaethon · 05-09-2011 10:02pm

Next arrival. Again, does someone knows insignia part well? What period these were in use? Am I correct that it's the Service Dress Collar Grenades?

phaethon · 05-09-2011 10:13pm

I compared this one again with the one what I picked up earlier and I can see now difference of lion's tail - I remember this indicates period but can someone clear it out here again please?

R.Dub.Fusilier · 06-09-2011 11:40am

i have one the same and its an officers collar badge.

R.Dub.Fusilier · 06-09-2011 11:45am

molders wrote: »

Those Mainwaring letters are interesting, did you know that they were in the book when you bought it?

Mainwaring's book was Volumn 1 up to 1911 and Colonel Wylly wrote the second volumn that covered 1911 to 1922. The attached photos show the Regiment's presentation copy of the 2nd volumn of "Crown and Company"to the author. Its a leather bound book with gilt edged pages and a book mark that features the regimental colours. The regiment's badge is inset into the front cover in gilt.

the letter was with the book when i got it but i didnt buy the book i got it for nothing from the grandaughter of the original owner . i payed to have it restored , the cover was off.

kabakuyu · 07-09-2011 7:33pm

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

AE Mainwarings medal index card

Mainwaring was a controversial figure in the RDF, by the end of 1914 he was court martialled for scandalous conduct(if I recall correctly) for the incident called the "Colonels Surrender" at the village of Saint quentin on the 26/27 August 1914.
Link here if you have not seen it before

http://www.dublin-fusiliers.com/battaliions/2-batt/campaigns/1914-retreat-mons.html

phaethon · 14-09-2011 11:59pm

My today's pick up for 3 eur (I hope I didn't pay way too much:rolleyes:). Next small service dress button from "Hobson & Sons - Lexington - London". Looks nice and age toned metal, also shows some wear. I like it especially because its with the fastener ring.

Also I just missed bullion "grenade" on ebay - looks like someone wanted it badly. How common these are? It sold for 38 GBP.

Picture is not so good but still...

phaethon · 15-09-2011 12:08am

kowloon wrote: »

Do you use the Kipling & King book for ID or something else?

May I ask kindly, is it possible to get a scan or photos of the pages what covers Royal Dublin Fusiliers insignia, tabs and flashes (I actually even don't know whats in there).
Or if any of you have some good photos of RDF insignia study materials, can I please ask some scans for study and learn purposes. I have at the moment only one picture on the "Crown and Company" and thats it.

I hope some of you can help me or advise, where to look.

Regards,

Timo

kabakuyu · 17-09-2011 9:42pm

hi timo, have look at this site.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/index.php

phaethon · 19-09-2011 11:44pm

phaethon wrote: »

And here is my next RDF related find. Only reference material regarding insignia for RDF what I have is one page on the well known book "Crown and Company".

Anyway guys. Is this pre WW1 period collar tab for Royal Dublin Fusiliers 1st and 2nd Battalions? Can someone date it even more?

Regards,

Timo

I received next one today. Looks like much better condition, without any marks of wear. Again, becasuse its my first one, any, who has similar, maybe can advise does mine looks original period one?

Because slight differences of details, can someone advise the period of them as well please if it is possible to ID it?

Mainly: how common repros of RDF insigna are on the market?

Thanks in advance,

Timo

R.Dub.Fusilier · 20-09-2011 12:32pm

i cant date the badge for you but a badge dealer who i have bought stuff from in the past told me that sometimes the 1st and 2nd battalions would get their own badges made up. so one may have the elephant over the tiger and the other may have the tiger over the elephant.

phaethon · 26-09-2011 10:39pm

And here is my today's arrival.

A coat button from Royal Dublin Fusiliers.

phaethon · 26-09-2011 10:44pm

And "exploading grenade". Is thats the one what I was missing top of letters "RDF" (these three items came all from different sources). If its correct, I still missing one:rolleyes:.

phaethon · 29-09-2011 9:56am

Today's arrival.

I tried to register on the badges forum but looks like it takes some time.

Anyway, does anyone know the period when it was in use? Also is it rarer (some how it went pretty high on ebay).

R.Dub.Fusilier · 04-10-2011 2:22pm

this RDF shoulder title is pre WW1 , around 1910 i think. its other ranks and in general RDF stuff costs more than others , probably with the exception of the connaught rangers.

Ebay is not the best place to buy badges as there can be a lot of s**te badges for sale .

phaethon · 05-10-2011 12:08am

Thanks R.Dub.Fusilier;).

I just got pair together!:D

Regarding ebay you are probably right - I just got large RDF cap badge what is surely modern copy. Ah, didn't cost me much and I should take it as a learning cost. More on the way as well, I hope these are fine.

Thanks again for advice!

Timo

phaethon · 13-10-2011 8:45pm

Finally got registered on britishbadge forum and I must say it is brilliant study place and guys in there are very well knowledget. I am enjoying it a lot!

Today I got post 1910 regimental shoulder badge set together. Only upper one is covered some kind a corrosion. What you guys think - to clean it or I should leave it like it is?

phaethon · 13-10-2011 9:00pm

And my most expencive badges...

Officer's collar badge from 1904-1922 period for a later pattern officer's service dress.

Unfrtunately looks like left side badge is slightly different size then others, so for a display, I have to still get the right match. I have't decided yet should I look different variations as well or not. Most likely one of the right side badge is over for a future sale or trade.

Left size badge has as well interesting tag inside - as a seller on ebay stated, its from the Gaunt Pattern Book Archive Collection and was sold at a recent auction by respected Militaria Specialists and Auctioneers Dix, Noonan and Webb.

phaethon · 17-10-2011 8:38pm

Hi all,

Today's finds...

Based on the book "Crown and Company 1911-1922" badges and buttons page, I presume it's full dress tunic collar grenade.

Maybe someone can advise me regarding the period when it was in use and was it for enlisted men, officer's collar tab or bouth.

phaethon · 17-10-2011 8:42pm

Now, like I understand from the previous posts, this is a post 1910 regimental level made, Officer's shoulder title?

phaethon · 21-10-2011 8:41pm

Here is today's pick ups from Dublin

.

Box

1. Regarding "The Crown and Company" book, I am thinking it is the Regimental Souvenire (match)box. Does anyone have seen something like that before and also does someone can advise me regarding the value if have seen similar ones on sale (I afraid I paid too much

).

2. Under there is interesting massive list from 4th Battalion Officer's Mess account list with the names (just prefect for a research or confirmation to the persons to be in service at this time). Its dated February 1918.

phaethon · 25-10-2011 11:59pm

Like I had been advised, crown on the box is Victoria era. So, box can be maybe from Boer War period?

My question remains the same - what it is exactly and approx how much it would be worth (just for my own piece of mind - I afraid I paid too much:P).

Regards,

Timo

phaethon · 29-10-2011 2:08am

Here is my next RDF cap badge and I would like to hear some advice... it is very bright and with the pin system on the back. It was sold by decent seller on ebay- endici.

What to you think, is it something what don't make sence or something what may be was in use around 1918-1921? Just because the pin system I think if it is real, it has to be from late RDF exist period because cost of producing, etc.. Just during the war time probably they have to keep down production costs and fancy pin system wasn't available? What you think guys, have you seen this example before?

phaethon · 29-10-2011 2:11am

And my last find - like I experienced, few guys bid on it on ebay and it went pretty high. I was the lucky one who scoop it aynway.

My main question is, what it is, where it was used, etc? Like I have been learned, it has to be something post 1881.

Regards,

Timo

phaethon · 29-10-2011 1:45pm

And one group photo. I started looking RDF insignia just about 3 months ago and I have had come up with the stuff below - money well spent!

arnhem44 · 29-10-2011 7:59pm

phaethon wrote: »

And my last find - like I experienced, few guys bid on it on ebay and it went pretty high. I was the lucky one who scoop it aynway.

My main question is, what it is, where it was used, etc? Like I have been learned, it has to be something post 1881.

Regards,

Timo

This badge is in the same style as the Dublin County Light Infantry Militia badges,I've seen many different counties having similar style badges but all have lugs on the back for fixing.

phaethon · 29-10-2011 9:03pm

arnhem44 wrote: »

This badge is in the same style as the Dublin County Light Infantry Militia badges,I've seen many different counties having similar style badges but all have lugs on the back for fixing.

Hi,

Thank you very much! Because its not shown anywhere as a waidly used insignia, can it be something what some militia battalions used, when they formed 3-5th Battalions for RDF? Also seller stated that it is from the Gaunt Pattern Book Archive Collection what sold at auctioneers Dix, Noonan and Webb.

Regards,

Timo

arnhem44 · 31-10-2011 1:14pm

It most likely would of been an early pattern badge when those battalions of the RDF were formed and may not of been used for very long.These I think are hat badges so as a guess these would of been done away with as different types of uniform and head wear were introduced.

R.Dub.Fusilier · 31-10-2011 8:53pm

i had this pic up before but cropped it to show the RDF medals only, i have added a few RDFs to my collection since the pic was taken. there are some trios and broken trios ,pairs and singles, i'm not a medal snob. i recently got a VM to an RDF from Derry who was KIA on the 1st day of the Somme, i am glad to have it as they are a rare thing and i got it for a song. i have various ammounts of information on the recipiants and they range from POWs KIAs injured etc..

Step23 · 31-10-2011 9:23pm

Very impressive collection R. Dub! I saw that 1st day of the Somme Dub medal when it was on ebay, you got it a very good price!

Stephen

R.Dub.Fusilier · 31-10-2011 9:59pm

Step23 wrote: »

Very impressive collection R. Dub! I saw that 1st day of the Somme Dub medal when it was on ebay, you got it a very good price!
Stephen

Thanks. tell me about it . when i looked at it on the day of ending i expected it to be through the roof but i was lucky that no one spotted it or didnt want it. sometimes you can be lucky on ebay and get a bargan but at the moment RDF stuff is being pushed too high and being over priced and some buyers paying over the odds for items.IMO

phaethon · 01-11-2011 12:32am

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

Thanks. tell me about it . when i looked at it on the day of ending i expected it to be through the roof but i was lucky that no one spotted it or didnt want it. sometimes you can be lucky on ebay and get a bargan but at the moment RDF stuff is being pushed too high and being over priced and some buyers paying over the odds for items.IMO

Ok guys, when it was on ebay??? I check ebay pretty often now and I didn't spot it. Regarding prices on ebay, I think I am one of them who is paying way too much for RDF items at the moment. Just as a beginner RDF collector, I have to start from somewhere. However, as a some sets like McIntosh and Devlin's, this money was most likely worth every penny. Beginner's luck?
I have at the moment lined up 4 RDF sets and singles to research, before I post them up. One of them was very unlucky man to became KIA less then a week before end of the Great War! Also my very first RDF officer's set is waiting research. I will post it up when I have his papers and all the main info together.

To learn and study, I have spent as well lots of money last months for a books and materials. Also I have now RDF medal roles what I have (like) to work with; I am in the middle of doing for myself Excel database with the RDF soldiers. VERY time consuming - there is lots of different sources what I have to compare, etc. Also different sources has some mistakes and to get them right, takes time. I hoping to have coming half an year initial database together (at the moment just a little pit more then 2000 names) and my ultimate aim would be to start working with the unit statistics.... age groups by battalions, locations, reinforecements, bravery awards by battalions, etc, casualties by months and so on! This would be something new what I haven't seen much around and would great to discuss and share with other RDF entusiast.

Regards,

Timo

phaethon · 01-11-2011 12:36am

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

i had this pic up before but cropped it to show the RDF medals only, i have added a few RDFs to my collection since the pic was taken. there are some trios and broken trios ,pairs and singles, i'm not a medal snob. i recently got a VM to an RDF from Derry who was KIA on the 1st day of the Somme, i am glad to have it as they are a rare thing and i got it for a song. i have various ammounts of information on the recipiants and they range from POWs KIAs injured etc..

Looked your collection again and it is just amazing - I presume upper rows are all trio sets for a one person?

Any officer's sets, any POWs?

Regards,

Timo

Royal Dublin Fusiliers

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