Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

westtip · 10-06-2010 10:53am

corktina wrote: »

sorry, wasnt referrring to your post, just the folly of opening a station at Crusheen (Oranmore is a better idea...but Crusheen !!!!Perleeze!

Simple really because WOT is a "community based project" as we have always been told and every parish along the route must have a station which of course only adds to the slowness of the journey - BTW I spoke to someone from Clare recently who was visiting my neck of the woods - he claimed it has a massive uptake on the WRC sure he said I only got the train myself last week from Ennis to Galway in the morning and there were at least 20 people on it when we got into Galway.....

Ahem ......Massive uptake indeed, Half a bus load......

glineli · 10-06-2010 11:58am

corktina wrote: »

sorry, wasnt referrring to your post, just the folly of opening a station at Crusheen (Oranmore is a better idea...but Crusheen !!!!Perleeze!

A stop in Crusheen suits me fine

Seriously, Oranmore needs a stop with a park and ride as soon as possible.

dowlingm · 13-06-2010 2:15am

A long post on IRN with a few interesting observations:

Ardvarna wrote:

There are no serious efforts being made to attract commuters, such as promotions in local newspapers; local businesses or government offices. As a regular user and advocate even I am finding it increasingly difficult to justify to fellow passengers the frequent slowing down to a crawl and blowing of the monotone horn in advance of overgrown and little used farmers crossings. There are more warning signs and speed restrictions around these than one would expect to see were the train passing through the streetmarkets of Bangkok!

Even the cattle in the fields have the look on their faces of bewilderment at this over the top regulation. Cattle with the experience of dwelling a few miles away adjacent to the Athenry to Galway line know that trains on that route belt through farmers crossings at 80mph.

Ardvarna wrote:

The timetable will, we all hope, be modified sooner rather than later to optimise the potential of the trains and the track and signalling. Again it is increasingly difficult to defend the time-killing drivers have to practice approaching stations and at stations in order to stick to the timetable.

Ardvarna wrote:

Within a half mile of departing from either end of this alledged €106m new railway, trains slow to 5mph - yes 5mph - to, in the first instance at Athenry, pass over a turnout. Trains rely on turnouts to move from one track to another and can do so at maximum speed all over the world - but not on the new alledged €106m railway at Athenry.

Ardvarna wrote:

Speaking of building things before the line opened, there was a new river bridge built half mile north of Ennis, but for some reason, perhaps to afford passengers a birds eye view of the rubbish strewn river below, there's a, guess what, over the new river bridge,.............. yesss- a 5mph speed limit. By co-incidence this provides another "careful now this could be wobbly" moment as you start your journey from the southern direction on the alledged €106m railway.

DWCommuter · 13-06-2010 2:29am

dowlingm wrote: »

A long post on IRN with a few interesting observations:

Those points are relevant to the entire network which is why the drop in subvention has ultimately started the closure orders. IE cannot and will never be able to effectively manage the railway. For every euro taken off the subvention a mile of track will close. Its akin to eating a family members flesh to keep another family member alive.

Without subvention IE cannot run a railway. So this begs the question. If subvention is for a social purpose, why don't they just tell us which lines make a profit or cover their costs?

westtip · 13-06-2010 6:00pm

dowlingm wrote: »

A long post on IRN with a few interesting observations:

It would appear that the railway enthusiasts are even less than enthusiastic about the service they are getting - promoting a service that is cr*p will result in one thing only - trial usage and then ......withdrawal from usage. I wonder how many customers have tried this service because of all the hoo ha there has been about it and then said my god what a heap of cr*p I won't be using that again ..... Let's face it the journey times if you take account of the total journey time, travelling to station you want to get to and then getting to your final destination is just not acceptable to most people these days - For all the campaigning there has been for WRC south, it seems not only will all the rationale arguments against the WRC kill it off (lack of people to sustain it etc) but the totally cr*p service being delivered will make sure it does not succeed. Now a quick question have we got any unofficial headcounts on this line these days....

T Corolla · 14-06-2010 3:33pm

I read some of the threads on peoples opinion of this railway service. Can anyone honestly remember back before celtic tiger times the low level of investment in railways in Ireland. Journeys of similar diastance took the same amount of time and what happened to improve them was that passengers started to use the service. This is going to be the faith of the Limerick-Galway railway line. People along the line are going to have to use it in order for it to improve. It maybe a bitter pill for people to swallow but it must be done. This line can become a symbol of the soul of the southwest and west and I am sure if it improves it is testament to their strength. The same region has suffered considerably because of the recession but if this line becomes a lesser burden to the state it will be down to the people and nothing else. In these times people need to believe it can be sucessful and IMO it will. Thanks for reading

corktina · 14-06-2010 3:52pm

T Corolla wrote: »

I read some of the threads on peoples opinion of this railway service. Can anyone honestly remember back before celtic tiger times the low level of investment in railways in Ireland. Journeys of similar diastance took the same amount of time and what happened to improve them was that passengers started to use the service. This is going to be the faith of the Limerick-Galway railway line. People along the line are going to have to use it in order for it to improve. It maybe a bitter pill for people to swallow but it must be done. This line can become a symbol of the soul of the southwest and west and I am sure if it improves it is testament to their strength. The same region has suffered considerably because of the recession but if this line becomes a lesser burden to the state it will be down to the people and nothing else. In these times people need to believe it can be sucessful and IMO it will. Thanks for reading

expensive, infrequent and slow, but use it anyway in the hope that one day by a miracle a way will be found to run a high speed frequent service (on a single line) which can stop on a sixpence for the odd station here and there...

Laudable though your post is, I don't think its possible with this line to make a silk purse out of it without totally rebuilding it from first principals.

Judgement Day · 14-06-2010 4:11pm

T Corolla wrote: »

I read some of the threads on peoples opinion of this railway service. Can anyone honestly remember back before celtic tiger times the low level of investment in railways in Ireland. Journeys of similar diastance took the same amount of time and what happened to improve them was that passengers started to use the service. This is going to be the faith of the Limerick-Galway railway line. People along the line are going to have to use it in order for it to improve. It maybe a bitter pill for people to swallow but it must be done. This line can become a symbol of the soul of the southwest and west and I am sure if it improves it is testament to their strength. The same region has suffered considerably because of the recession but if this line becomes a lesser burden to the state it will be down to the people and nothing else. In these times people need to believe it can be sucessful and IMO it will. Thanks for reading

Don't quite see your point, as many rail journeys (Dublin/Cork, Dublin/Belfast etc) are slower now than in pre-Celtic Tiger days.

markpb · 14-06-2010 4:17pm

T Corolla wrote: »

People along the line are going to have to use it in order for it to improve. It maybe a bitter pill for people to swallow but it must be done.

People won't use it unless it provides some advantage over the other options open to them.

T Corolla · 14-06-2010 4:46pm

I see your points and agree that some of the journey times have not improved but the frequency has improved. Dublin-Sligo used to be a journey of 4hrs before the on track 2000 programme now the journey of 3hrs with a train every two hours from 5:45am to 19:00 that is an improvement in anyone books. Dublin-Cork was 2 hrs 30 min pre 2000 now is it 2hrs 50 min but there is a hourly service in place since 2006 thats an improvement. Limerick-Galway needs more work I agree but it will be 106million euros of waste if the passenger numbers fall off. I would like to see a journey time of 1hr 10min to 1hr 20min on this line in a 5yr time frame this can be achieved. There is as much argument for the no hope side as there is for hope. I would call on Irish rail to introduce the 10 euro day return fare on this line as it did on all main lines into Dublin. Prior to this the fares were expensive to say the least but its introduction has transformed into footfall and into revenue. Online booking fares would also be an enormus aid to this line which will come in time as it has to all other lines

westtip · 14-06-2010 10:07pm

markpb wrote: »

People won't use it unless it provides some advantage over the other options open to them.

You are quite right but then ask yourself What people? there simply aren't enough people making this commuter journey (into the city centres of either Galway or Limerick) to justify the whole thing. It all comes back to the fundamental issue of demographics, high speed rail lines city centre to city centre can only be justified with enough people to support them and then there is the demand for use of the track from 6.00 am until 11.30 pm - this track is under utilised because there aren't enough people to utilise it in daylight hours. On top of that the lack of people we have in the west who are actually prepared to use the bad service that has been created will mean the death knell of phases 2 and 3 of the WRC, I just wish the politicians were honest enough to say - this project is a waste of resources (for the west and for the country) let's draw a line in the sand and say so - we need rail investment where it is actually needed - and to improve the intercity services we have. Now with public finances as they are - we all know there is no money to further "improve" the white elephant that has been delivered and we also know there is no money to do the ill fated (and not needed) phases 2 and 3 to Tuam and Claremorris.

T Corolla wrote: »

but it will be 106million euros of waste if the passenger numbers fall off. I would like to see a journey time of 1hr 10min to 1hr 20min on this line in a 5yr time frame this can be achieved.

Mate it is just one of the many things upon which money was wasted in the bad years of government we had in the wasted tiger, the problem is not only the capital waste but the ongoing subvention waste - how much would we have got for our 106 million if it had been invested in a bus and integrated rural bus transport policy for the west - and if the ongoing subvention of this line which is used by very few people was used as part of the ongoing subvention of an integrated transport policy in the west centred on providing an excellent bus service. This is what gets my goat - this project adds very little value to the entire public transport policy of the west and adds very little in meaningful transport infrastructure because it delivers such a poor service serving so few people.

T Corolla · 14-06-2010 10:56pm

You are right the population density is not there. If we come back to this senario in 5-10yrs time will we say the same thing hopefully it will be a better enconmic time population density could increase in that time and bring it nearer to a justifable project. Could Would Should are variables are do'nt yield results. I agree the line is the most basic infrastructure for its investment size but like every other rail line it has to start somewhere and this is its infancy.
The line north of Galway according to WRC website is coming up for funding decision in September whether its sucessful is another story but we need to believe that the current line can be sucessful and if that means introduction of freight services onto the line so be it going back in time when the Dublin-Cork line had lesser services it carried commodities to justify its running costs. One final point is that when rail services are poor in this country it was a combination of patronage and managerial vision that improves services. Limerick to Galway may not have the population density so it needs to be promoted to the tourist market to bump up patronage

westtip · 14-06-2010 11:42pm

T Corolla wrote: »

You are right the population density is not there. If we come back to this senario in 5-10yrs time will we say the same thing hopefully it will be a better enconmic time population density could increase in that time and bring it nearer to a justifable project. Could Would Should are variables are do'nt yield results. I agree the line is the most basic infrastructure for its investment size but like every other rail line it has to start somewhere and this is its infancy.
The line north of Galway according to WRC website is coming up for funding decision in September whether its sucessful is another story but we need to believe that the current line can be sucessful and if that means introduction of freight services onto the line so be it going back in time when the Dublin-Cork line had lesser services it carried commodities to justify its running costs. One final point is that when rail services are poor in this country it was a combination of patronage and managerial vision that improves services. Limerick to Galway may not have the population density so it needs to be promoted to the tourist market to bump up patronage

What? On what basis can you see the population increasing, its not just about density of population its about lack of people. Regarding the line starting somewhere - you are forgetting the fact, this is not a "new line" its a new version of an old line closed down 30 years ago. It is just fantasy world to say promote it to tourists - what for two months of the year - you don't build new rail lines (on old routes) to accomodate tourists they have to have a real reason for them now, you don't build new rail lines in the hope things will get better in ten years time. It will come as no surprise if the north of Ahenry section is axed in September as part of the cutbacks - the only chance WOT have of holding onto this dream is the greens force it through - now that would be ironic considering the greens standings in the polls in the west of ireland!.

DWCommuter · 15-06-2010 1:25am

I have to admit, I'm stunned by the continued bull**** on this thread........actually wait! Ive changed my mind about posting. Whats the frigging point.

Transportuser09 · 15-06-2010 4:18am

T Corolla wrote: »

You are right the population density is not there. If we come back to this senario in 5-10yrs time will we say the same thing hopefully it will be a better enconmic time population density could increase in that time and bring it nearer to a justifable project. Could Would Should are variables are do'nt yield results. I agree the line is the most basic infrastructure for its investment size but like every other rail line it has to start somewhere and this is its infancy.

Good point. I fear it may take a good deal longer than 5-10 years but its a start and provides a foundation to build upon. In an ideal world we would have a more direct route built from new but by using the old alignment we can at least get it going at a realistic cost, its better than nothing. You are right in saying to come back in a few years, its far too early to judge the line's success at this stage.

L1011 · 15-06-2010 9:21am

T Corolla wrote: »

I see your points and agree that some of the journey times have not improved but the frequency has improved. Dublin-Sligo used to be a journey of 4hrs before the on track 2000 programme now the journey of 3hrs with a train every two hours from 5:45am to 19:00 that is an improvement in anyone books

Only just keeping up with the similar cut in road journey times since 2000 with the M4, Edgesworthstown BP, Dromod/Roosky BP, N4 DC extension in Sligo, etc.

Rail needs to be *beating* road journey times not just matching.

Judgement Day · 15-06-2010 9:26am

Just noticed that both this thread and the Waterford/Rosslare thread landed on the dreaded 6 6 6 number of posts today - bizarre or what?

T Corolla · 15-06-2010 10:05am

MYOB wrote: »

Only just keeping up with the similar cut in road journey times since 2000 with the M4, Edgesworthstown BP, Dromod/Roosky BP, N4 DC extension in Sligo, etc.

Rail needs to be *beating* road journey times not just matching.

That is true but at the moment its matching the road time. The Dublin-Sligo line has a problem with population outside of Longford as many of the towns have population less than 5,000 and Irish Rail are not getting the passengers numbers to justify investment in the line west of Longford. On the other hand like most other rail lines there seems to be speed restrictions on it due to curved rail path or poor land conditions that need to be addressed to speed up the service by say 20mins which again is an improvement. One final point I'd like to make is that the services on all lines are getting better and for a country with such a desperced population we seems to have a better system than that of most countries where services are privatised

invinciblePRSTV · 15-06-2010 1:11pm

T Corolla wrote: »

You are right the population density is not there. If we come back to this senario in 5-10yrs time will we say the same thing hopefully it will be a better enconmic time population density could increase in that time and bring it nearer to a justifable project. Could Would Should are variables are do'nt yield results. I agree the line is the most basic infrastructure for its investment size but like every other rail line it has to start somewhere and this is its infancy.

We've just had two decades of economic and population growth, the problem is in the West they don 't do planning so even if the economy blossoms again and population starts increasing exponentially you can be sure it'll be far away from the WRC tracks.

T Corolla wrote: »

The line north of Galway according to WRC website is coming up for funding decision in September whether its sucessful is another story but we need to believe that the current line can be sucessful and if that means introduction of freight services onto the line so be it going back in time when the Dublin-Cork line had lesser services it carried commodities to justify its running costs.

It would be an absolute travesty if the WRC got funding to proceed with phase 2 when dozens of far more worthy public transport & road projects have been axed.

T Corolla wrote: »

One final point is that when rail services are poor in this country it was a combination of patronage and managerial vision that improves services. Limerick to Galway may not have the population density so it needs to be promoted to the tourist market to bump up patronage

I'm from a major tourist town. Most tourists, bar students, use rental cars when travelling around Ireland. The M17/18 projects are far more critical to the west when it comes to bringing tourists in.

westtip · 15-06-2010 1:28pm

MYOB wrote: »

Only just keeping up with the similar cut in road journey times since 2000 with the M4, Edgesworthstown BP, Dromod/Roosky BP, N4 DC extension in Sligo, etc.

Rail needs to be *beating* road journey times not just matching.

And the car journey times are now door to door......

nijel · 15-06-2010 1:50pm

if you build it they will come... the business and comuters that is.
however the only thing stopping a good reliable service is the high prices. 40 odd euro for return ballina to dublin compared to 20 for the bus, they need to be more competitive to survive! either way it would be no harm to bring the railway through claremorris to ballina to sligo?

it would make more sence than going through tobacurrry. only 60km of new line would be needed. compared to a 80km upgrade through a lower density area...

foggy_lad · 15-06-2010 1:58pm

T Corolla wrote: »

I see your points and agree that some of the journey times have not improved but the frequency has improved. Dublin-Sligo used to be a journey of 4hrs before the on track 2000 programme now the journey of 3hrs with a train every two hours from 5:45am to 19:00 that is an improvement in anyone books. Dublin-Cork was 2 hrs 30 min pre 2000 now is it 2hrs 50 min but there is a hourly service in place since 2006 thats an improvement. Limerick-Galway needs more work I agree but it will be 106million euros of waste if the passenger numbers fall off. I would like to see a journey time of 1hr 10min to 1hr 20min on this line in a 5yr time frame this can be achieved. There is as much argument for the no hope side as there is for hope. I would call on Irish rail to introduce the 10 euro day return fare on this line as it did on all main lines into Dublin. Prior to this the fares were expensive to say the least but its introduction has transformed into footfall and into revenue. Online booking fares would also be an enormus aid to this line which will come in time as it has to all other lines

dublin to cork was quoted as being 2hours 50 minutes but it is rarely under three hours from my experiences and even then it does not deliver the customer into the center of either dublin or cork!

other rail stations are even further outside towns they serve like Mostrim or Edgeworthstown as it is now referred to by irish rail which is not in edgeworthstown at all, several other stations are far outside the towns and cities they serve so you must add travel time on to the train times and also add taxi or bus/luas fares on to the massively expensive train fares! all this ensures that train times in ireland will NEVER match car and in some cases bus times and will always be too expensive for the majority of the travelling public!

in these recessionary times the train is not going to be a choice for the majority of people and will end up being an expensive train set solely for the use of the rich and employees of the company!

T Corolla wrote: »

That is true but at the moment its matching the road time. The Dublin-Sligo line has a problem with population outside of Longford as many of the towns have population less than 5,000 and Irish Rail are not getting the passengers numbers to justify investment in the line west of Longford. On the other hand like most other rail lines there seems to be speed restrictions on it due to curved rail path or poor land conditions that need to be addressed to speed up the service by say 20mins which again is an improvement. One final point I'd like to make is that the services on all lines are getting better and for a country with such a desperced population we seems to have a better system than that of most countries where services are privatised

T Corolla wrote: »

You are right the population density is not there. If we come back to this senario in 5-10yrs time will we say the same thing hopefully it will be a better enconmic time population density could increase in that time and bring it nearer to a justifable project. Could Would Should are variables are do'nt yield results. I agree the line is the most basic infrastructure for its investment size but like every other rail line it has to start somewhere and this is its infancy.
The line north of Galway according to WRC website is coming up for funding decision in September whether its sucessful is another story but we need to believe that the current line can be sucessful and if that means introduction of freight services onto the line so be it going back in time when the Dublin-Cork line had lesser services it carried commodities to justify its running costs. One final point is that when rail services are poor in this country it was a combination of patronage and managerial vision that improves services. Limerick to Galway may not have the population density so it needs to be promoted to the tourist market to bump up patronage

population density is unlikely to increase in these areas for another 20 years at least as was experienced during and after the early eighties all along the west coast. anyone remember when bus eireann had daily busses from sligo donegal and mayo heading to london manchester liverpool etc and how long it took for these areas to be repopulated after the celtic tiger started to roar once again

so are the taxpayers expected to cover an expensive waste for the next 20-30 years in the hope that this line will someday pay for itself?

T Corolla · 15-06-2010 2:36pm

Some very good points given and I will take them on board but how much of a road could you build for the cost of the state aid that will be given to Irish Rail for running this service. The latest figure I heard was 3 million(correct me if I'm wrong) you will not build much roads for that, but if your try and open up the railway line to different markets you are bound to draw in patronage. One other point mentioned was rental car. I agree with the thread that it is much more convenient that a rail service hands down. The point I am trying to make is that with a bit of hardwork on the side of Irish Rail/Bord Failte and local business the Galway-Limerick line can become less of a burden to the state. There is no rail/bus service apart from private companys making a profit and all of these services need state aid. Bus Eireann recieved something in the region of 900 million last year in state aid correct me if I'm wrong

T Corolla · 15-06-2010 2:41pm

nijel wrote: »

if you build it they will come... the business and comuters that is.
however the only thing stopping a good reliable service is the high prices. 40 odd euro for return ballina to dublin compared to 20 for the bus, they need to be more competitive to survive! either way it would be no harm to bring the railway through claremorris to ballina to sligo? it would make more sence than going through tobacurrry. only 60km of new line would be needed. compared to a 80km upgrade through a lower density area...

This is an excellent point and hopefully with the introduction of web based fares this will be reduced. I dream of the line going all the way to Clairemorris but I cant see it happening unless the population of Clairemorris becomes the same as Sligo.

corktina · 15-06-2010 2:43pm

nijel wrote: »

if you build it they will come... the business and comuters that is.
however the only thing stopping a good reliable service is the high prices. 40 odd euro for return ballina to dublin compared to 20 for the bus, they need to be more competitive to survive! either way it would be no harm to bring the railway through claremorris to ballina to sligo? it would make more sence than going through tobacurrry. only 60km of new line would be needed. compared to a 80km upgrade through a lower density area...

anyone going to bother to reply to this one? :rolleyes:

T Corolla · 15-06-2010 2:52pm

The only way it will be justified if Sligo population grows to the same as that of Galway probably in the 22nd centuary.

nijel · 15-06-2010 4:09pm

corktina wrote: »

anyone going to bother to reply to this one? :rolleyes:

ok i know i am biased as i live in ballina:D but which would you rather go on a train through:P claremorris to ...

kiltamagh swinford charlestown (knock airport) tobecurry collooney sligo
... or
manulla foxford ballina enniscrone dramore west ballisodare sligo

nijel · 15-06-2010 4:22pm

"Galway probably in the 22nd centuary"

but how can sligo become a City like galway if it doesnt have the infrustructure... its a bad cycle

invinciblePRSTV · 15-06-2010 4:26pm

corktina wrote: »

anyone going to bother to reply to this one? :rolleyes:

S/he is only a kid Corktina lad leave 'em alone.

T Corolla · 15-06-2010 4:30pm

nijel wrote: »

"Galway probably in the 22nd centuary"

but how can sligo become a City like galway if it doesnt have the infrustructure... its a bad cycle

By getting all the people in the county to live in the town and get jobs in Galway. There is not case for a line from Sligo to Galway and never will be. If there was a better bus service provided that would be more benefical. I would love to see the line from Collooney to Clairemorris turned into a cycle/walkway path as it would be of more benefit to the counties in which it passes through. In fairness the Limerick-Galway line needs an improved service(40mph is a non runner) as it stands and more people living in the towns between them.

nijel · 15-06-2010 4:44pm

ok ye are taking this extremely seriously

(and i am 19 year old male not really a kid anymore;)) honestly i do know a railway would not work, but cant we dream? I like the walk way idea:cool:

T Corolla · 15-06-2010 5:14pm

nijel wrote: »

ok ye are taking this extremely seriously (and i am 19 year old male not really a kid anymore;)) honestly i do know a railway would not work, but cant we dream? I like the walk way idea:cool:

This is the type of ambition we need to harness

corktina · 15-06-2010 7:24pm

nijel wrote: »

ok ye are taking this extremely seriously (and i am 19 year old male not really a kid anymore;)) honestly i do know a railway would not work, but cant we dream? I like the walk way idea:cool:

no prob dream away but remember it would be YOUR taxes paying for such a pipe dream and you'll already be paying enough for such follies as the southern bit already re-opened....you wouldnt spend your own money so foolishly if it came out of your pocket in cash so why support the fools who would have us all pay out for this folly of a corridor which buses would service quicker, more frequently and cheaper...and would actually go through the places the railway pretends to....

Godge · 15-06-2010 11:28pm

corktina wrote: »

no prob dream away but remember it would be YOUR taxes paying for such a pipe dream and you'll already be paying enough for such follies as the southern bit already re-opened....you wouldnt spend your own money so foolishly if it came out of your pocket in cash so why support the fools who would have us all pay out for this folly of a corridor which buses would service quicker, more frequently and cheaper...and would actually go through the places the railway pretends to....

+1

DWCommuter · 15-06-2010 11:42pm

corktina wrote: »

no prob dream away but remember it would be YOUR taxes paying for such a pipe dream and you'll already be paying enough for such follies as the southern bit already re-opened....you wouldnt spend your own money so foolishly if it came out of your pocket in cash so why support the fools who would have us all pay out for this folly of a corridor which buses would service quicker, more frequently and cheaper...and would actually go through the places the railway pretends to....

Great point, but in fairness the lad is 19 and obviously not up to speed on the economic side of things. At that age, it's all about how great the world is or can be. I can still just about remember it.:D

corktina · 16-06-2010 7:23am

my own lad is twenty and just started a part time job and moaned to me that all his money was going on petrol and food.... economic reality sets in about that age!

DWCommuter · 16-06-2010 12:36pm

corktina wrote: »

my own lad is twenty and just started a part time job and moaned to me that all his money was going on petrol and food.... economic reality sets in about that age!

Only if they are working. Quite a few are still pampered by Mammy and Daddy.:D

corktina · 16-06-2010 4:51pm

DWCommuter wrote: »

Only if they are working. Quite a few are still pampered by Mammy and Daddy.:D

tell me about it...still got three of them....

westtip · 20-06-2010 11:25am

DWCommuter wrote: »

I have to admit, I'm stunned by the continued bull**** on this thread........actually wait! Ive changed my mind about posting. Whats the frigging point.

+1 Dw just scrolled through the last few pages and really, like you I can't see the point anymore. Just when are the folks arguing for the continuing folly of the line from Athenry to Clarmorriss and the illusionary belief that somehow a line from Claremorris to collooney may even be on the agenda going to wake up and smell the roses:

Never mind all the rationale arguments that have been written in their thousands of words on this thread and its historic predecessor against the folly of a policy to re-open this line.

Those of us who hae argued against it have been pilloried as "anti west of Ireland" actually I see the abondonment of this project as being pro-west of ireland and being pro-rail - because the money shoud have been spent on improving the network we have. However, the stark reality is summed up in the three words below and these three words spell its death knell. The Western Rail Corridor phase 2 and 3 will I have absolutlely no doubt be put well and truly to the back of the queue, in September by this government and the liklihood is by the next one as well.

In other words, Forget it. It is a non starter for any further capital spending north of Athenry and south of Athenry to try and fix the job they have created.

In three words folks - the truth as we all know it, and this is the reality so please don't tell me its the high priority the west needs etc . This is WOT we have to face up to:

We are broke.

corktina · 20-06-2010 3:22pm

with you all the way there...lets plough up the trackbed and sell it(give it away) to whoever will take it. Put the money saved (if we actually have any of it) into increasing capaicity nearer the capital where it might benefit a lot of the population.

wild handlin · 20-06-2010 4:09pm

corktina wrote: »

with you all the way there...lets plough up the trackbed and sell it(give it away) to whoever will take it. Put the money saved (if we actually have any of it) into increasing capaicity nearer the capital where it might benefit a lot of the population.

And waste the already €106 million that has already gone into it!? Yeah, great idea!! :rolleyes:

How many of you who are against the WRC travels on it on a regular basis? From what I gather the passenger numbers seem to be well up, with passenger trains ex Galway and ex Limerick all reasonably full - (and not just to Ennis/Atherny).

How many of you have travelled from Tuam - Galway in rush hour? Also, like I have stated here if freight uses the line then there is no doubt that it will claw back some of the money used to open the line in the first place.

Oh and no, before you all start hounding me I'm not involved with WOT - or any other rail based campaign. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

invinciblePRSTV · 20-06-2010 4:36pm

wild handlin wrote: »

How many of you who are against the WRC travels on it on a regular basis?

What point are you trying to make here?

wild handlin wrote: »

From what I gather the passenger numbers seem to be well up, with passenger trains ex Galway and ex Limerick all reasonably full - (and not just to Ennis/Atherny).

Where do you 'gather' this information from? besides IE & WOT press releases?

corktina · 20-06-2010 4:52pm

westip was talking about North of Athenry and so was I, although you could argue that to throw away that €106 million would save much more than that in a few short years by the line NOT losing money.

wild handlin wrote: »

And waste the already €106 million that has already gone into it!? Yeah, great idea!! :rolleyes:

How many of you who are against the WRC travels on it on a regular basis? From what I gather the passenger numbers seem to be well up, with passenger trains ex Galway and ex Limerick all reasonably full - (and not just to Ennis/Atherny).

not my information Im sorry to say

How many of you have travelled from Tuam - Galway in rush hour? Also, like I have stated here if freight uses the line then there is no doubt that it will claw back some of the money used to open the line in the first place.
What freight? ther is no potential for freight...

Oh and no, before you all start hounding me I'm not involved with WOT - or any other rail based campaign. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

westtip · 21-06-2010 9:27am

wild handlin wrote: »

How many of you have travelled from Tuam - Galway in rush hour? :

Improve the N17, improve the bus service and bus lanes (with buses going direct to places where people actually work like Balybrit, hospital, University etc), make the bus service a good and frequent with services beyond commuter hours; bypass ClareGalway - all these would serve a far greater number of people than the precious rail line ever will and deliver a better quality of public transport service.

After all Tuam Athenry then into Galway is not going to dleiver a very good commuter service.

corktina · 21-06-2010 11:15am

westtip wrote: »

Improve the N17, improve the bus service and bus lanes (with buses going direct to places where people actually work like Balybrit, hospital, University etc), make the bus service a good and frequent with services beyond commuter hours; bypass ClareGalway - all these would serve a far greater number of people than the precious rail line ever will and deliver a better quality of public transport service.

After all Tuam Athenry then into Galway is not going to dleiver a very good commuter service.

no...especially over a single line with a further stop at Oranmore. I can just imagine how long that journey is likely to take if there is a failure or delay to a train in the opposite direction! Not likely to be very attractive to many commuters surely. A large Park And Ride at Oranmore would seem to me to be more attractive to road and rail users with rail to the city centre and buses to the other areas perhaps.

invinciblePRSTV · 21-06-2010 11:25am

And let's not forget that Tuam & it's environs isn't exactly a metropolis crying out for a commuter railway, QBCs & road improvements will deliver far better public transport options to tuamites then spending large fortunes re-opening railways to small towns.

foggy_lad · 21-06-2010 11:54am

wild handlin wrote: »

And waste the already €106 million that has already gone into it!? Yeah, great idea!! :rolleyes:

claw some of it back!

How many of you who are against the WRC travels on it on a regular basis? From what I gather the passenger numbers seem to be well up, with passenger trains ex Galway and ex Limerick all reasonably full - (and not just to Ennis/Atherny).

have you got reliable figures to back this up?

How many of you have travelled from Tuam - Galway in rush hour?

truth of it is that most people that get the train still use their cars to drive to/from the station

Also, like I have stated here if freight uses the line then there is no doubt that it will claw back some of the money used to open the line in the first place.

imagine how slow the passenger railcars will be if they are stuck behind an old relic of a locomotive hauling........well that is just it, there is no demand for freight services at the rates that irish rail would be asking! it is simply cheaper and much faster to send it by road(and most freight would require road transport after landing at a station anywway!) just as it is cheaper and much faster for passengers to travel by road!

Oh and no, before you all start hounding me I'm not involved with WOT - or any other rail based campaign. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

i would not hound or berate anyone for trying to improve their lot but not at the expense of the rest of the country! ireland could still join Iceland!

21-06-2010 11:55am

wild handlin wrote: »

And waste the already €106 million that has already gone into it!? Yeah, great idea!! :rolleyes:

Sunk costs (money already spent) should be ignored when you are making decisions about the future.

I wanted to use the train from Limerick to Galway once - the next one wasn't for about three hours so I took citylink.

wild handlin · 21-06-2010 10:47pm

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

What point are you trying to make here?

My point is that some posters constantly "slag off" the WRC, yet no-one seems to be activly looking at what passenger numbers are on the services etc. When it was made public about the WRC being a far greater sucess than imagined in the first month some posters basically said, 'well - looks like the novelty factor is still on'. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it just appears to me that theres a small bunch of posters on the boards who appear to want the WRC to fail at whatever cost - yet don't even consider that there are far greater wastes happening on IE at present - which don't draw in a single cent of revinue!!

westtip wrote: »

Improve the N17...... bypass ClareGalway - all these would serve a far greater number of people than the precious rail line ever will and deliver a better quality of public transport service.

After all Tuam Athenry then into Galway is not going to dleiver a very good commuter service.

Is the N17 actually one of the worst roads in the country? I don't really think so to be honest. I feel that there are worse roads than the N17. It appears to be by and large good quality bar the section from Claremorris - Tuam - Galway - (with bypassing Milltown, Ballindine, Tuam and Clare Galway)

foggy_lad wrote: »

claw some of it back!

How? The money has already been spent! What are you going to do with stations for example? They can't exactly be moved down the road...!!

have you got reliable figures to back this up?

truth of it is that most people that get the train still use their cars to drive to/from the station imagine how slow the passenger railcars will be if they are stuck behind an old relic of a locomotive hauling........well that is just it, there is no demand for freight services at the rates that irish rail would be asking! it is simply cheaper and much faster to send it by road(and most freight would require road transport after landing at a station anywway!)
i would not hound or berate anyone for trying to improve their lot but not at the expense of the rest of the country! ireland could still join Iceland!

I have had friends who have used the service and I've been reliabily told that the trains by and large seem to be well filled. Do you have any reliable figures to suggest that no one is using the service, and that every service is a "ghost service"?

If freight trains are timetabled properly then there shouldnt (in theory) be any conflict with passenger trains? And - as regards railfreight there is a large demand for freight in this country to go by rail - and not all in the West.
If you look at what Ballina can produce container wise for export then surely what can the likes of Cork, Limerick and Galway for example (which all had similar trains serving them up until the 2000's) can produce for railfreight?

foggy_lad · 21-06-2010 11:11pm

balina is nothing really it is only a few companies that use rail because it suits them for export but there are much more factories around the country that could not afford to switch to rail due to extra costs as well as needing road freight from the railway stations and then there is the whole reliability issue with irish rails awful record of accidents breakdowns and very late trains!

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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