Horrible day of fishing!

davidk11811 · 30-06-2010 12:33am #1

So I went fly fishing for the first time ever today... Went to a tiny stream thats full of small trout. It was a wonderful day for it and there was loads of trout rising. I don't know what the FUK I did wrong but I tried every fly I had and the guy in the shop said they were all great for streams. I'll upload a few pics of them later but I can't be arsed now

and you may recognise them and tell me if there any good because for all I know he could be filling me up with sh1t. Any general tips would be appreciated and to be honest I'm dissapointed as there's no good rivers to go fly fishing for trout in the roscommon area :mad:. Maybe you could tell me what flies would suit streams.

decdon · 30-06-2010 1:23am

davidk11811 wrote: »

So I went fly fishing for the first time ever today... Went to a tiny stream thats full of small trout. It was a wonderful day for it and there was loads of trout rising. I don't know what the FUK I did wrong but I tried every fly I had and the guy in the shop said they were all great for streams. I'll upload a few pics of them later but I can't be arsed now and you may recognise them and tell me if there any good because for all I know he could be filling me up with sh1t. Any general tips would be appreciated and to be honest I'm dissapointed as there's no good rivers to go fly fishing for trout in the roscommon area :mad:. Maybe you could tell me what flies would suit streams.

I'm from the roscommon area aswell.Was it the Hind river by any chance.There were trout in that a few years back as i cought a few on the worm from it, but i since got word that they were short lived so i never tried in a couple of years. I'm only starting to have a bit of sucess on rivers now as i cought my first brownie on a river 1/2 an hour away. pm me if ya yant more details and I might be a bit more help even tho I'm no expert.....

davidk11811 · 30-06-2010 1:40am

No it was in strokestown, theres a small stream there that runs through the park house and just past the Scania garage theres a small bridge and just upstream from there it's full of trout, a man I was talking to said he caught 130 in the past year on the worm, no space for fly fishing though.

ironbluedun · 30-06-2010 8:04am

davidk11811 wrote: »

No it was in strokestown, theres a small stream there that runs through the park house and just past the Scania garage theres a small bridge and just upstream from there it's full of trout, a man I was talking to said he caught 130 in the past year on the worm, no space for fly fishing though.

in ireland a lot of trout are killed by bofoons worm and maggot fishing which is very sad really...a lot of the 'free' rivers are devoid of trout because of this 'me myself and I' greed driven mentality.........the thicks who partake in this activity will never learn. I suspect you may need to stick to club waters that have some degree of control.

coolwings · 30-06-2010 9:27am

There is an assumption among new anglers that trout are easier caught on a worm compared to using artificial flies.
And when you are learning to fly fish, and an old worm fisher wipes you eye you feel that "real bait" must be more effective than feathers on a hook.
It is a confidence thing.
However remember this : TROUT ARE INSECTIVORES, FIRSTLY, OPPORTUNISTS NEXT, AND PREDATORS AFTER THAT.
Sure they eat worms, but for every worm a trout eats, it eats thousands of flies, and if you want to catch it, that's the way to place your bets.

Now nobody said it was easy.
Did you notice what I said about a beginner fly fisher encountering an experienced worm fisher?
If you level the ability the fly fisher will bury the worm fisher every time, and the worm guy only has a chance of coming level during a dirty flood that pushed trout in under the bank.

Experience for experience the fly will beat the worm 20:1. However some rivers suit the worm due to local characteristics, these are rocky gorges and holes under overhanging trees, and flat water during day when nothing is feeding much.

I recently stood on a bridge over the Dodder with my family. There was a 1lb trout 12 feet under us under with two other little trouteens all clear adn we could see every scale, and wiggle of the smallest fin. I went to the car and took out a can of redworms and started feeding the river. The trout politely moved aside each time a worm floated downstream, allowed it to pass, and kept rising to the midges that were hatching.
Eventually I got a worm into the concentrator, the thread of river leading downstream into the bigger trout, and carrying flies directly over it's head, the magic inch of water I would have casted flies onto if I were fishing for that fish. It decided to move away before the worm arrived (very close) or could pass under it, and swam calmly away up towards a covering tree.
My wife and kids above looking in were fascinated.
It just did not want worms, even worms with no line attached. But it was feeding hard until I hassled it, and tried to keep feeding on size 20 midges for 5 minutes after real live worms began drifting past.

They don't always want steak and chips, but often the little snack that they already prefer the flavour of. Insects is what trout eat first.

davidk11811 · 30-06-2010 10:08am

coolwings wrote: »

There is an assumption among new anglers that trout are easier caught on a worm compared to using artificial flies.
And when you are learning to fly fish, and an old worm fisher wipes you eye you feel that "real bait" must be more effective than feathers on a hook.
It is a confidence thing.
However remember this : TROUT ARE INSECTIVORES, FIRSTLY, OPPORTUNISTS NEXT, AND PREDATORS AFTER THAT.
Sure they eat worms, but for every worm a trout eats, it eats thousands of flies, and if you want to catch it, that's the way to place your bets.

Now nobody said it was easy.
Did you notice what I said about a beginner fly fisher encountering an experienced worm fisher?
If you level the ability the fly fisher will bury the worm fisher every time, and the worm guy only has a chance of coming level during a dirty flood that pushed trout in under the bank.

Experience for experience the fly will beat the worm 20:1. However some rivers suit the worm due to local characteristics, these are rocky gorges and holes under overhanging trees, and flat water during day when nothing is feeding much.

I recently stood on a bridge over the Dodder with my family. There was a 1lb trout 12 feet under us under with two other little trouteens all clear adn we could see every scale, and wiggle of the smallest fin. I went to the car and took out a can of redworms and started feeding the river. The trout politely moved aside each time a worm floated downstream, allowed it to pass, and kept rising to the midges that were hatching.
Eventually I got a worm into the concentrator, the thread of river leading downstream into the bigger trout, and carrying flies directly over it's head, the magic inch of water I would have casted flies onto if I were fishing for that fish. It decided to move away before the worm arrived (very close) or could pass under it, and swam calmly away up towards a covering tree.
My wife and kids above looking in were fascinated.
It just did not want worms, even worms with no line attached. But it was feeding hard until I hassled it, and tried to keep feeding on size 20 midges for 5 minutes after real live worms began drifting past.

They don't always want steak and chips, but often the little snack that they already prefer the flavour of. Insects is what trout eat first.

That's very true, but what makes people think that flies are harder to use is the fact that they're using the wrong ones. That's why it's much more appealing to use a worm as it's usually reliable to the inexperienced fisherman. At least it feels like that for me anyway.

gooch2k9 · 30-06-2010 10:16am

I take it mepps wouldn't be the best for catching trout so?

davidk11811 · 30-06-2010 10:20am

Mepps are great at the right times, but it's also hard to use them sometimes because of weed growth

gooch2k9 · 30-06-2010 10:23am

Had no luck so far with them meself. Will persevere to though.

davidk11811 · 30-06-2010 10:32am

Do you fly fish aswell?

gooch2k9 · 30-06-2010 10:33am

Nah looks too confusing to me! Was offered lessons so may take them up if I ever can afford them:D

davidk11811 · 30-06-2010 10:42am

lol Forget lessons, I just started teaching myself last week. It's not as complicated as I thought it would be.

ironbluedun · 30-06-2010 11:48am

coolwings wrote: »

There is an assumption among new anglers that trout are easier caught on a worm compared to using artificial flies.
And when you are learning to fly fish, and an old worm fisher wipes you eye you feel that "real bait" must be more effective than feathers on a hook.
It is a confidence thing.
However remember this : TROUT ARE INSECTIVORES, FIRSTLY, OPPORTUNISTS NEXT, AND PREDATORS AFTER THAT.
Sure they eat worms, but for every worm a trout eats, it eats thousands of flies, and if you want to catch it, that's the way to place your bets.

very true indeed....spend the time with the fly and it will pay off in the long run......

ironbluedun · 30-06-2010 11:51am

davidk11811 wrote: »

lol Forget lessons, I just started teaching myself last week. It's not as complicated as I thought it would be.

true..... a friend who fishes already can also help....its not rocket science to learn a simple back cast.....there's loads of information out there, books mags, forums, U-tube and all that jazz...then practise...then experience...:)

ironbluedun · 30-06-2010 12:07pm

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Nah looks too confusing to me! Was offered lessons so may take them up if I ever can afford them:D

eh nope its not confusing at all.....give it a go....

davidk11811 · 30-06-2010 4:22pm

Does anyone know what lb line I should be using for trout, the line I'm using at the moment is quite heavy and often spooks them when I cast, or maybe I'm casting wrong?

coolwings · 30-06-2010 4:35pm

3 lbs mono, 5lbs fluoro tops in clear water.
Do you know what you have on at the moment?

davidk11811 · 30-06-2010 5:57pm

coolwings wrote: »

3 lbs mono, 5lbs fluoro tops in clear water.
Do you know what you have on at the moment?

Great thanks and no I don't know. What do you mean by 5lbs fluoro?

davidk11811 · 30-06-2010 5:59pm

Oh no I know what you mean, never mind haha

coolwings · 30-06-2010 8:28pm

That would be with dry flies.
The nearer you get to the river bottom, the less they spook by line, so heavier lines are normal sometimes.
Also with a heavy large fly, like a minnow imitation 1.5 inches long 5lb mono or 7lb fluoro might be needed.

SeaFields · 30-06-2010 8:37pm

You said in your original post that you could see loads of trout rising? Was the water particularly calm, flat, slow? This could have been your problem. If you can see those trout rising, they can see you.

Try finding fast deep water. You mightn't be able see the trout rising there but they are still there. In the faster water they have less time to decide whether to hit the fly or not - less time to scrutinise bad presentation, the leader, shadow of the line etc.

Find pools below weirs and bridges, obstacles in the river and fish these areas. Tight lines!

snow ghost · 30-06-2010 11:01pm

Trout spend the majority of their time feeding near the bottom, hence why wormers can be very successful.

Reality is bait, fly or spinning all have their place and can be as equally effective.

There is a lot of snobbery among some anglers who think fly fishing is a superior art form to other methods. It's a bit like a student in one martial art claiming his martial art is more effective than the others, in reality they all have their place.

davidk11811 · 30-06-2010 11:56pm

SeaFields wrote: »

You said in your original post that you could see loads of trout rising? Was the water particularly calm, flat, slow? This could have been your problem. If you can see those trout rising, they can see you.

Try finding fast deep water. You mightn't be able see the trout rising there but they are still there. In the faster water they have less time to decide whether to hit the fly or not - less time to scrutinise bad presentation, the leader, shadow of the line etc.

Find pools below weirs and bridges, obstacles in the river and fish these areas. Tight lines!

Yes very calm and shallow, that was the problem then. I'm going somewhere different next after I'm back from holidays. I'll miss this forum

haha

cj salmon · 01-07-2010 12:37am

SeaFields wrote: »

You said in your original post that you could see loads of trout rising? Was the water particularly calm, flat, slow? This could have been your problem. If you can see those trout rising, they can see you.

Try finding fast deep water. You mightn't be able see the trout rising there but they are still there. In the faster water they have less time to decide whether to hit the fly or not - less time to scrutinise bad presentation, the leader, shadow of the line etc.

Find pools below weirs and bridges, obstacles in the river and fish these areas. Tight lines!

i still consider myself a novice as there is always something to learn in fly fishing,thats what sets it apart from other methods,and makes it so enjoyable.get to know your river,talk to locals,tackle dealers maybe! find out what the trout feed on and get some flys to suit.i remember it took me plenty of outings ,observing and hassling other anglers/mates,borrowing books,watching dvds,practising casting,buying the wrong flies and leaders etc.before i got to some kind of comfortable level,(although i would reccomend one casting lesson if you can afford it,to speed things up,and help presentation of flies),something i regret not doing when i started out.

this is good advice from seafields,,,i found calm pools with rising fish could be frustrating when i just set out.as your casting is probably just puttng fish down (even the most experienced cater can do this in this type of water especially on a clear day),try wet fly down and across in streamy runs at first,this is the best way to learn how to fly fish imo.dont get too frustrated,if the trout are there they can be caught,with a little more thinking about your methods and a hell of alot of practice and help off some of the lads on here you will be catching trout on the fly in no time!!!!

how small is the stream? i fish very small streams ,my favourite way to fish in fact,and can answer some questions on this type of fishing .
the biggest piece of advice for the small streams is STEALTH!!!
wade with slow steady paces,no splashing and such,no shadows (including your rod)!! stay on the bank and hidden if possible.these trout are easily spooked

good luck,,and enjoy it

cj salmon · 01-07-2010 12:52am

snow ghost wrote: »

Trout spend the majority of their time feeding near the bottom, hence why wormers can be very successful.

Reality is bait, fly or spinning all have their place and can be as equally effective.

There is a lot of snobbery among some anglers who think fly fishing is a superior art form to other methods. It's a bit like a student in one martial art claiming his martial art is more effective than the others, in reality they all have their place.

this is untrue,,,as fly fishing is effective in many different situations ie: surface feeders-dry fly,emergers etc , sub surface- wet fly,bottom feeders-nymphs, minnow feeders - lures to name just a few

and as stated by someone else trout eat flys number one!! that is what they search for ,FACT ,,and the trout take flys at each stage of their life from pupa to adult,,each stage can be imatated by a different type of fly and method,,
different methods of fly fishing are effective in many different ,almost all conditions and feeding situations where as worming is only effective for bottom feeders or after floods ,and the spinners to enduce the trouts curiosity/aggresion,,so i would think,for trout any way,that the fly is a superior method.
now thats not snobbery,thats facts,,
i think your theory could be applied to some salmon fly fishers alright,when salmon fly fishing is essentialy lure fishing only,and the worm,shrimp and spin all have their day,as its a level playing field when the fish are not feeding

davidk11811 · 01-07-2010 12:58am

cj salmon wrote: »

i still consider myself a novice as there is always something to learn in fly fishing,thats what sets it apart from other methods,and makes it so enjoyable.get to know your river,talk to locals,tackle dealers maybe! find out what the trout feed on and get some flys to suit.i remember it took me plenty of outings ,observing and hassling other anglers/mates,borrowing books,watching dvds,practising casting,buying the wrong flies and leaders etc.before i got to some kind of comfortable level,(although i would reccomend one casting lesson if you can afford it,to speed things up,and help presentation of flies),something i regret not doing when i started out.

this is good advice from seafields,,,i found calm pools with rising fish could be frustrating when i just set out.as your casting is probably just puttng fish down (even the most experienced cater can do this in this type of water especially on a clear day),try wet fly down and across in streamy runs at first,this is the best way to learn how to fly fish imo.dont get too frustrated,if the trout are there they can be caught,with a little more thinking about your methods and a hell of alot of practice and help off some of the lads on here you will be catching trout on the fly in no time!!!!

how small is the stream? i fish very small streams ,my favourite way to fish in fact,and can answer some questions on this type of fishing .
the biggest piece of advice for the small streams is STEALTH!!!
wade with slow steady paces,no splashing and such,no shadows (including your rod)!! stay on the bank and hidden if possible.these trout are easily spooked

good luck,,and enjoy it

The stream iss TINY and I mean TINY! 1 metre wide, 2 at most. I think I might give up on it and fish rivers. Still, ANY tips would be highly appreciated!

snow ghost · 01-07-2010 1:20am

cj salmon wrote: »

this is untrue,,,as fly fishing is effective in many different situations ie: surface feeders-dry fly,emergers etc , sub surface- wet fly,bottom feeders-nymphs, minnow feeders - lures to name just a few

and as stated by someone else trout eat flys number one!! that is what they search for ,FACT ,,and the trout take flys at each stage of their life from pupa to adult,,each stage can be imatated by a different type of fly and method,,
different methods of fly fishing are effective in many different ,almost all conditions and feeding situations where as worming is only effective for bottom feeders or after floods ,and the spinners to enduce the trouts curiosity/aggresion,,so i would think,for trout any way,that the fly is a superior method.
now thats not snobbery,thats facts,,
i think your theory could be applied to some salmon fly fishers alright,when salmon fly fishing is essentialy lure fishing only,and the worm,shrimp and spin all have their day,as its a level playing field when the fish are not feeding

CJ Salmon,

You stating things to be facts doesn't make them so, lets deal with one very simple fact - what you state is merely your opinion.

As I said each method has it's benefits and can be equally effective.

You are obviously biased towards fly fishing and are displaying the elitism and snobbery that I spoke of.

davidk11811 · 01-07-2010 1:40am

snow ghost wrote: »

CJ Salmon,

You stating things to be facts doesn't make them so, lets deal with one very simple fact - what you state is merely your opinion.

As I said each method has it's benefits and can be equally effective.

You are obviously biased towards fly fishing and are displaying the elitism and snobbery that I spoke of.

True, worms have their place but the fact of the matter is Trout mainly eat flies, and there are lots of flies for different situations unlike the worm. Saying fly fishing is better and more reliable isn't being snobby.

cj salmon · 01-07-2010 1:46am

are you trying to dispute that flys at various stages of life are not a trouts primary diet?

so this would indicate that imatating this food would be the most effective way to catch them,am i wrong?

i am biased in the case of fly fishing,as it is the most effective way to catch wild trout in a serious of different conditions against any other method that i have tried,so i am not merely stating facts its tried an tested!!!!
so its not snobbery around here,,i am however sensing some ignorance to factual information :rolleyes:

cj salmon · 01-07-2010 2:00am

davidk11811 wrote: »

The stream iss TINY and I mean TINY! 1 metre wide, 2 at most. I think I might give up on it and fish rivers. Still, ANY tips would be highly appreciated!

i wouldnt give up on your local stream,just spend some time getting to know it,talk to other local fly anglers if any,see what insects on the surface ,try a couple of flys of the same general size and profile.people sometimes make the mistake that smaller streams are easier,but small shallow streams make for spooky trout,,this is where stealth acurate casting and not making disturbance are essential,,a tough but rewarding place to start

in the mean time maybe fish a larger water to build confidence and catch a few fish,improve your casting etc without the worry of spooking fish.wet fly is great for this as i said,shallow streamy runs are good places to start!

some general patterns to start are
the drys are mainly generals i would have for small streams:
cdc elk hair
adams
f fly
klinkhammers in olive and black

wets
march brown
black and silver spider
partridge and orange
snipe and purple
waterhen bloa
greenwells glory

hares ear nymphs
phesant tail nymphs

hope that helps a bit

snow ghost · 01-07-2010 2:37am

cj salmon wrote: »

are you trying to dispute that flys at various stages of life are not a trouts primary diet?

so this would indicate that imatating this food would be the most effective way to catch them,am i wrong?

i am biased in the case of fly fishing,as it is the most effective way to catch wild trout in a serious of different conditions against any other method that i have tried,so i am not merely stating facts its tried an tested!!!!
so its not snobbery around here,,i am however sensing some ignorance to factual information :rolleyes:

What I am saying is quite clear from my posts. Have a re-read it may help you understand.

Just because you have tried something doesn't mean it is the most effective way, it could be you just aren't very good at other methods.

You may well be sensing ignorance of factual information, it seems to permeate throughout your posts on this matter.

It's a mute argument as to one method being more effective than the other - as I said, and I stand by, they each have their place and can be equally effective.

An understanding of all methods could help improve your overall knowledge of your quarry. If you don't appreciate that, so be it, I ain't here to educate you.

snow ghost · 01-07-2010 2:40am

davidk11811 wrote: »

True, worms have their place but the fact of the matter is Trout mainly eat flies, and there are lots of flies for different situations unlike the worm. Saying fly fishing is better and more reliable isn't being snobby.

Good luck with your fly fishing david.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of fly fishing elitism and snobbery out there. Why I don't know - a knowledge of all angling methods is more beneficial. That said enjoy your angling and good luck with your next session.

bernard0368 · 01-07-2010 9:03am

Is there such thing as a horrible day fishing?

Keep at it and you will get there. When you do you will be truely hooked.

davidk11811 · 01-07-2010 9:34am

snow ghost wrote: »

Good luck with your fly fishing david.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of fly fishing elitism and snobbery out there. Why I don't know - a knowledge of all angling methods is more beneficial. That said enjoy your angling and good luck with your next session.

Thanks I hope I catch next time!

ironbluedun · 05-07-2010 9:14am

snow ghost wrote: »

Good luck with your fly fishing david.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of fly fishing elitism and snobbery out there. Why I don't know - a knowledge of all angling methods is more beneficial. That said enjoy your angling and good luck with your next session.

The fly fishing elitists and snobbery theory these days is largely an ill-informed opinion… maybe back in the time of the landed gentry that stuff existed but its largely gone now….the real reason why experienced knowledgeable anglers dislike worm fishing for trout is that it is too indiscriminate and is not sympathetic to conservation….when the trout takes the worm he is a s good as dead….trout will gobble down worms and it is hard to remove a worm hook from a trout without damaging it ….even if the trout is returned bleeding/damaged the fish will die through blood loss or a secondary infection….also kelts and salmon parr are regularly caught on worms both of them will gobble them down quickly eventually resulting in death…and that is not mentioning other species of fish that take worms too....so this is the reason, now you know....so there is nothing snobby or elitist about those facts….I do fish for salmon with worms but not trout because I know what damage they can do there is nothing elitist about that way of thinking…..no doubt worm is more effective during periods of high water or floods, which ever you prefer to call them…but in normal or low water summertime fly-fishing is far more productive, just a little harder to understand at first and this where a lot of people have problems and opt for easier methods i.e. worms maggots etc…..but eventually as you progress and mature as an angler you learn more about your fish and what they eat then you will get sick of worm fishing and progress onto the fly,, it happens all the time....

coolwings · 05-07-2010 9:56am

snow ghost wrote: »

..... As I said each method has it's benefits and can be equally effective.
..You are obviously biased towards fly fishing and are displaying the elitism and snobbery that I spoke of.

snow ghost wrote: »

Trout spend the majority of their time feeding near the bottom, hence why wormers can be very successful.
Reality is bait, fly or spinning all have their place and can be as equally effective.

There is a lot of snobbery among some anglers who think fly fishing is a superior art form to other methods..., in reality they all have their place.

This is not a personal atack but a considered response to the suggestions at quotes above.

Each method has it's benefits, yes. Can be equally effective? No.
They are different benefits and some benefits are small and otehrs are large, so the methods are not equal.

Biased towards fly fishing? Some are, some are not. Most people have a method they are simple good at. Based on these posts you can be accused of being "anti-snob snob" and biased towards bait fishing! Not saying you are, but your post has the dismissive whiff of snobbery too.

Trout spend the majority of their time feeding near the bottom, hence why wormers can be very successful. Yes they do. But when feeding trout look up, and attack items at their own level or above it. They very rarely look down except when feeding on caddis larvae or bloodworm or shrimp in streams. Presentation at or above their level is effective, and as a bait fisher I bet you find a float helps results.

Reality is bait, fly or spinning all have their place and can be as equally effective.
Absolutely agreed.
BUT: bait fishing by beginners does a certain thing to parr. It causes deep hooking. How many carry a disgorger in their pocket and can use it in 3 seconds?
You missed this aspect: fly fishing is effective in that every fish is a lip hooked fish. Consequently fishing is sustainable with more anglers on limited water if they fly fish the water. Making the most of our fish has got to be a good thing.

Methods I have caught trout that I remember right now: legered, long trotted, livebaited (used to be legal), upstream freelined, drop minnowed, spin, sink draw, plugged, dap from tree, dry fly, nymph. Baits I've had trout on are maggots white and dyed, redworms, brandling worms, lobworms, bread, dough, cheese, natural fly, grasshopper, minnow, stickleback, and caddis larva, I even caught them on frogs! No snob here.
Now an interesting thought is that my "fly" wallet contains artificial copies of grubs, maggots, worms, sticklebacks, minnows, crayfish, shrimp and winged flies too. So I just might be using artificial bait with my fly rod outfit, when I go fly fishing! The word "fly" indicates the rod and line and definitely not what I am presenting to a feeding trout!
I also use a ultralight spinning rod for trout, sometimes with a flyreel and a light line, othertimes with the spinning reel and mono. Here is the thing: the lure on the fly rod, is the same as the lure on the bait rod, an artificial version of actual bait.

They all have their place. Some of us have tried all too, and are not snobs, but willing to give advise on a very pleasant way to fish.

I take it you bait fish, which is fine - just wondering have you tried many different other ways yourself?

snow ghost · 05-07-2010 5:51pm

Coolwings,

I use all methods, I never said expressed a preference to one or the other.

Nothing against you or any other posters here who mostly fly fish, but there is an element of elitism in fly fishing, that's not to say you are exhibiting it.

I actually disagree about the deep hooking of trout when worming, of course it can happen, but more often it doesn't. I can honestly say that anytime I have been bait casting with a worm - and I've never, ever used a float - 95% of catches have been hokked in the lip/mouth.

As I said, a knowledge of all methods is most beneficial.

ButcherOfNog · 05-07-2010 7:02pm

snow ghost wrote: »

95% of catches have been hokked in the lip/mouth.

This comes down to proper bite detection, rather than method. That comes with experience. Personally I'd rather fly fish for Trout, for learners, go out with someone how knows what they are doing and learn from them, don't head out yourselves and expect to catch.

coolwings · 05-07-2010 7:25pm

Look: fly fishing is tough on beginners. Not all adults fish and can advise on fishing, especially parents.
And kids are beginners, and kids can use little rods with bait easier with no fishing expert parent to give fishing lessons and suchlike.
So lots of anglers will always learn other ways first, and come around to add the fly on after. That's fine, and there should be no criticism levelled, its not deserved.

Snow Ghost: Free lining a single worm upstream on a pennell rig for sighted trout is a highly skilled art for trouting which more "fly only" anglers should attempt, and fail at, and appreciate the difficulty of doing right!
Also, the humble worm is not the "bad boy" at all - it is that some beginner bait anglers often use maggots and strike late and that gets bait fishing a bad name. But that is a bad behaviour, and not a problem with bait, as such.

And float fishing ... well that's surely a bait fishing technique enough to get all who use them sent below when they die? But in that case - what are those funny floating indicator bung thingies some fly fishers never seem to be without on their lines? Aaah, it's ok - they are indicators, and not floats at all!

Sometimes lines of division get blurred!

Leaving the snob thing aside, because I have no time for idiots like that, and when I come across one I put extra effort to my fishing, and do my utmost to show their selective limitation of skills up. If they are dry fly I put on a nymph, and if they are exact imitation I reach for hairy monstrosities and tie one on! And I love seeing them cringe when I describe how I cut a double taper line in half to make two long belly shooting heads!

But if all clubs on trout holding waters banned maggots. We would not be having this "bait is good - bait is bad debate" at all. As I said, a lot of fly fishing is artificial bait fishing with a fly rod.
It is use of particle live baits, fished by beginners with bad fish handling skills, or overkill planned, that cause the majority of problems imo. Greedy killer anglers with maggots and swimfeeders will damage trout stocks where they are not rooted out and made to fish in an acceptable way instead.
The rooting out can be done either by snobs or by well adjusted people, I'm ok with the process both ways!

snow ghost · 05-07-2010 11:37pm

Coolwings,

I couldn't agree more that we need sustainable and responsible fishing.

I might be naive but I still think that the vast majority of anglers do care and can be encouraged to fish sustainably and responsibly. I see greater threats coming from outside those involved in angling, such as irresponsible farmers or businesses who are happy to polute our waterways.

Anyway, all the best

davidk11811 · 10-07-2010 10:40pm

My first ever trout caught, on the worm. I caught him in castlecoote and was primarily fishing for perch but caught him which was a nice surprise. he was returned back safely and luckily he was lip hooked. Second link is a decent sized perch i caught in castlecoote.

Horrible day of fishing!

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