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Cowboy Car Salesmen

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    #32
    BreadnBuddha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,311 ✭✭✭BreadnBuddha


    quadrifoglio verde wrote: »
    Sales of goods act also covers second hand goods which must be of merchantable quality. An engine in the condition the op described is not merchantable quality.
    Also nct does not equal roadworthy.
    It means it was roadworthy on the day the test was carried out. The brakes could pass the test one day and a month later could fail the same test

    I know. Read it again.

    Regarding the NCT, I couldn't give a toss about the NCT. The OP's complaint is in relation to silicon and superglue or whatever being used on the engine. Unless it's dumping oil onto the road that has zero impact on roadworthiness. An NCT is about as useful as a copy of The Sun. Nice to look at, but **** all substance or value.

    A motor trader selling a car to a member of the public is only required to honestly represent the car, to disclose information relating to the car which he know about and not to sell a vehicle that is unsafe for use by a member of the public in the condition in which it is sold, unless that is specifically agreed OR notified in writing before or as part of the contract of sale.

    Merchantable quality is pretty wide open to interpretation. Is it a car? Yes. Does it drive? Yes. Is it unsafe and therefore unsuitable for supply to a customer for immediate use in the condition in which it is supplied? No. Does it need work? Of couse, it's an old car. Has the OP been told it's sold with no warranty? Yes. Was the price agreed? Yes.

    Sounds okay to me.

    Does the OP have NO comeback? Of course he has. If the seller sold him an intrinsically unsafe vehicle for his immediate use, he has comeback.

    There's nothing in law that stops a seller from selling a roadworthy vehicle in need of work to a customer. He can't say it's perfect, needs nothing, it's immaculate, you won't need a warranty it's that good a car etc. But he didn't. He told him, it's as is, no warranty. There's no misrepresentation there.


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    #33
    moonship
    Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭moonship


    quadrifoglio verde wrote: »
    Sales of goods act also covers second hand goods which must be of merchantable quality. An engine in the condition the op described is not merchantable quality.
    Also nct does not equal roadworthy.
    It means it was roadworthy on the day the test was carried out. The brakes could pass the test one day and a month later could fail the same test

    Kids, geeks and other motor specialists:)

    Nct equals roadworhiness. Passed test means car meets road safety and enviromental standards during its validity period. Obviously a few days after csr could fail the test but thats the law. It doesnt check general mechanical condition.
    So OP bought roadworthy vehicle and this argument against the garage is busted.

    if the car was sold without one wheel- then you could argue that wasnt of merchantable quality and wasnt fit fir the purpose!

    Thats the reality


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    #34
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    BreadnBuddha wrote: »
    I know. Read it again.

    Regarding the NCT, I couldn't give a toss about the NCT. The OP's complaint is in relation to silicon and superglue or whatever being used on the engine. Unless it's dumping oil onto the road that has zero impact on roadworthiness. An NCT is about as useful as a copy of The Sun. Nice to look at, but **** all substance or value.

    A motor trader selling a car to a member of the public is only required to honestly represent the car, to disclose information relating to the car which he know about and not to sell a vehicle that is unsafe for use by a member of the public in the condition in which it is sold, unless that is specifically agreed OR notified in writing before or as part of the contract of sale.

    Merchantable quality is pretty wide open to interpretation. Is it a car? Yes. Does it drive? Yes. Is it unsafe and therefore unsuitable for supply to a customer for immediate use in the condition in which it is supplied? No. Does it need work? Of couse, it's an old car. Has the OP been told it's sold with no warranty? Yes. Was the price agreed? Yes.

    Sounds okay to me.

    Does the OP have NO comeback? Of course he has. If the seller sold him an intrinsically unsafe vehicle for his immediate use, he has comeback.

    There's nothing in law that stops a seller from selling a roadworthy vehicle in need of work to a customer. He can't say it's perfect, needs nothing, it's immaculate, you won't need a warranty it's that good a car etc. But he didn't. He told him, it's as is, no warranty. There's no misrepresentation there.

    TBF, superglue like. Surely that alone would indicate some sort of misinterpretation from the seller.

    Anyway, I'm no expert, but I know I'd never by a car over a grand that only came with a tailgate warranty.


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    #35
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    moonship wrote: »
    Kids, geeks and other motor specialists:)

    Nct equals roadworhiness. Passed test means car meets road safety and enviromental standards during its validity period. Obviously a few days after csr could fail the test but thats the law. It doesnt check general mechanical condition.
    So OP bought roadworthy vehicle and this argument against the garage is busted.

    if the car was sold without one wheel- then you could argue that wasnt of merchantable quality and wasnt fit fir the purpose!

    Thats the reality


    The nct doesn't give a ****e either whether you're engine is about to blow up, all it cares about is that the emissions are ok, that shocks and brakes work within the guidelines, that theres no rust etc. It doesn't care about your engine, your gearbox, your clutch. Manys a time it will miss bushes that are perished or callipers that are seizing. Not to mention the couple of quid in the brown envelope.

    Having an NCT on a car does not mean it is of merchantable quality. He is selling cars as a business. If bought of a dealer as a private individual you've the same rights as if bought new, i.e. the car must be of merchantable quality, a car which has a fecked engine is not of merchantable quality.

    Id be going down to him in the morning op, giving him the option to repair, replace or refund.
    If he refuses to do any, leave contact details and bring him to the scc for costs associated with the repair. All it'll cost you is an extra 25....might get him moving.


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    #36
    BreadnBuddha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,311 ✭✭✭BreadnBuddha


    .... :rolleyes:

    166man, is that you?


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    #37
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    BreadnBuddha wrote: »
    .... :rolleyes:

    166man, is that you?

    Lol....and nope:P


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    #38
    padma
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭padma


    Ok..had a problem before with a dealer selling me a hidden fault in the car...

    Went down to him first thing of a monday morning...told him my ould man looked at the car and f'd me out of it for buying it as it had x,y and z wrong with it..told him the father was gonna come down and stick a hatchet in him for messing me about. Told the salesman that I had to restrain him and calm him down and that i'll deal with the garage.

    Salesman starting to squirm..who needs that sh.. of a monday morning right. Agreed to have his mechanic look at it..mech said it had x y and z wrong with it.. took it off me and gave me a courtesy car and told me to come back next week.

    Came back the following week..they didnt do anything to it..bossman told them it was sold as seen and tough ti t.

    I handed them the keys walked away..told them that they sold the car as mint and it obviously wasnt. I want my money back..ring me when they have my money... 15 minutes later got a call to come back and theyll fix the car. Gave me a courtesy car...they fixed x y and z..but on z they used a second hand part that waz banjaxed..

    I reared up on them..handed them back the keys and told them this time I want my money back..had a few days off work and a friend and I hung around in the garage across the road all day. Everytime a customer went in..we walked over to the salesman asking him when will I get my money.

    This we did for two days and on the second day I told them that they have my car keys and they have my money and I will ring the guards and if the guards are no help it will be a long time before i will leave.

    Bossman arrived 5 mins later with my money.

    The idea is..they have the keys to your car..they alao have your money..they know your not going to let it rest and now they know youre serious..theyve two choices drag it on until court and solicitors or give you your money back..best choice for them is money back.

    Bring a big friend..speak slowly..clearly..and let them know it can be very difficult to sell a car with you around..


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    #39
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    moonship wrote: »
    Kids, geeks and other motor specialists:)

    Nct equals roadworhiness. Passed test means car meets road safety and enviromental standards during its validity period. Obviously a few days after csr could fail the test but thats the law. It doesnt check general mechanical condition.
    So OP bought roadworthy vehicle and this argument against the garage is busted.

    if the car was sold without one wheel- then you could argue that wasnt of merchantable quality and wasnt fit fir the purpose!

    Thats the reality

    The NCT does not equal roadworthy. A valid NCT means that the car was roadworthy for a period of about a half an hour on a given day in the past 1-2 years; nothing more.

    A car could have a valid NCT and also have a dangerous defect; are you seriously trying to suggest that a dealer would get away with selling such a car on the basis that the piece of paper in the window was up to date?

    Its beliefs/advice like this is the reason why people get stung when buying second hand cars in Ireland; its a very dangerous thing to believe that a valid NCT means that you are buying a safe and roadworthy car but unfortunately too many people make that mistake.


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    #40
    mullingar
    Registered Users Posts: 5,341 ✭✭✭mullingar


    This old chestnut.

    First of all, under the SOGA all that it refers to for protection on second hand goods is that it must be of reasonable quality and you have the right for a refund/exchange/repair. It's up to the courts to decide exactly how long the protection lasts for as it will vary from case to case.

    For all second hand goods, including cars, it's up to the shop/dealer to describe all faults/condition of the second hand goods.

    While there may be a small legal chance of the OP claiming against the dealer under the SOGA that they weren't given a list of all faults, it could be argued that it was verbally given, but common sense should prevail that any car sold with "sold as seen" should always set alarm bells and it will be cheap for a reason.. If any dealer won't stand over a sale with no warranty you have to expect a turd.

    If your not in the know of cars, always get an independent mechanic to give it the once over or walk.....


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    #41
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    I've been chuckling all afternoon at the thought of using superglue. It's like yer man from that kids movie Matilda. Sawdust in the transmission and use a drill to wind back the clock.


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    #42
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,620 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Once again there is no legal minimum legal warranty on a used car.

    It's actually surprising to read that folk still believe this to be the case, because it isn't.


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    #43
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    Once again there is no legal minimum legal warranty on a used car.

    It's actually surprising to read that folk still believe this to be the case, because it isn't.

    There's no minimum warranty but id argue that a car needing that much work done to it isn't of merchantable quality.

    The fact that there's no defined warranty on a second hand car It does not absolve the dealer of selling a car which isn't of merchantable quality, which is required by soga.


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    #44
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,114 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    This very same topic pops up all too frequently.

    Why oh why do some people buy cars in this fashion and then to add insult to injury, don't get them checked out by a mechanic until it's too late. People can be so obsessed with seeking a bargain that all common sense and cop on goes out the window. A car being sold by a dealer as sold as seen means that it needs work done on it. Jumping in and buying it without knowing what needs doing is just madness. I really think some people need protection from themselves.


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    #45
    padma
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭padma


    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_ireland.html

    You do have rights..exercise them...that car you bought is not roadworthy... its up to the dealer to set it right.


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    #46
    BMJD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,694 ✭✭✭BMJD


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    Once again there is no legal minimum legal warranty on a used car.

    It's actually surprising to read that folk still believe this to be the case, because it isn't.

    a warranty is in addition to consumer rights, it isn't the be all and end all of buying a car


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    #47
    Cleveland Hot Pocket
    Registered Users Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭Cleveland Hot Pocket


    BreadnBuddha wrote: »
    .... :rolleyes:

    166man, is that you?

    You of all people should know you can't reference banned posters ;)


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    #48
    BreadnBuddha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,311 ✭✭✭BreadnBuddha


    Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »
    You of all people should know you can't reference banned posters ;)

    Didn't even realise he was, or that you can't. :o


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    #49
    Cleveland Hot Pocket
    Registered Users Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭Cleveland Hot Pocket


    BreadnBuddha wrote: »
    Didn't even realise he was, or that you can't. :o

    Yeah, suppose we can't all live in the motoring forum like I seem to these days :P


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