Snooker World Championship 2014

Addle · 05-05-2014 11:06pm

:-)
https://mobile.twitter.com/richardosman

Sir montygom · 05-05-2014 11:09pm

amkin25 wrote: »

Something must be wrong with your ear's,coz he thanked him for the final also said it was amazing to beat ronnie in the final,something along the lines of" it wouldn't be the same to win it without ronnie being in the tournament but to beat him in the final was special".

Ok...must get the cotton buds out!! I think your correct ... He did say it was great to win it with Ronnie in the tournament or something along them lines!!

ArmaniJeanss · 05-05-2014 11:16pm

We have this conversation every year - but as always I don't understand how someone can think a one visit century break makes for a more entertaining frame than a 30pts to 23pts slugfest with the colours on cushions and the remaining few reds scattered around the table.

Century breaks are great but the true raw sporting drama of the messy frame, the reach into your soul to find the right shot and the heart to play it drama, that imo is the best entertainment.

Say Your Number · 05-05-2014 11:23pm

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Century breaks are great but the true raw sporting drama of the messy frame, the reach into your soul to find the right shot and the heart to play it drama, that imo is the best entertainment.

I don't mind messy frames as long as they don't go on for too long, if a frame goes on for more than 30 mins my attention starts to drift.

ciarriaithuaidh · 05-05-2014 11:35pm

Well deserved win for Selby. Rocket will rue some uncharacteristically sloppy misses and poor decisions. Can't argue with winning 13 of last 17 frames though.

irs · 06-05-2014 12:00am

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

We have this conversation every year - but as always I don't understand how someone can think a one visit century break makes for a more entertaining frame than a 30pts to 23pts slugfest with the colours on cushions and the remaining few reds scattered around the table.

Century breaks are great but the true raw sporting drama of the messy frame, the reach into your soul to find the right shot and the heart to play it drama, that imo is the best entertainment.

A bit of both is needed for a great game. Long frames with safety play can be good but having mistakes being punished with one frame winning break adds to the tension during the safety exchanges. When every frame goes scrappy and no-one can get a break over 30 then it can become hard to watch after a while. At least early in the match anyway. If it's 15 or 16 all then the longer the better.

Birdnuts · 06-05-2014 12:15am

Thoroughly enjoyed the final which had everything. Selby's safety play was awesome to behold and really got to Ronnie. Can see other players now taking note when they come up against the Rocket. Selby's coolness under pressure really impressed me. You can have all the talent in the world but the ability to produce it on the big stage under immense pressure separates the greats from the rest of us. Seriously thinking of heading to Sheffield next year to get a taste of the atmosphere.

Irishgoatman · 06-05-2014 12:18am

For my money, one of the best finals for a few years. Could have gone either way, a real nail biter.

Thanks to both of them for 2 days great T.V.

Mousewar · 06-05-2014 12:24am

Irishgoatman wrote: »

For my money, one of the best finals for a few years. Could have gone either way, a real nail biter.

Thanks to both of them for 2 days great T.V.

Lot of people saying this, if only by virtue of the fact that it was long and grueling. Same thing happens in tennis whenever there's a six-hour marathon - commentators fall over each other to call it the best match ever despite the quality of play.

The first session was decent with Ronnie playing freely and smoothly and breakbuilding well. The next two sessions were horrendous. Selby was incapable of winning a frame at one visit and he managed to drag Ronnie down to his level, resulting in a ragged, sloppy match with interminable frames and awful mistakes from both. Only at the very end, Selby finally produced some fine snooker.
Overall, other than the drama, it was a very poor, low quality match and Ronnie should give his head a shake for losing it.

case885 · 06-05-2014 12:31am

Mousewar wrote: »

Lot of people saying this, if only by virtue of the fact that it was long and grueling. Same thing happens in tennis whenever there's a six-hour marathon - commentators fall over each other to call it the best match ever despite the quality of play.

The first session was decent with Ronnie playing freely and smoothly and breakbuilding well. The next two sessions were horrendous. Selby was incapable of winning a frame at one visit and he managed to drag Ronnie down to his level, resulting in a ragged, sloppy match with interminable frames and awful mistakes from both. Only at the very end, Selby finally produced some fine snooker.
Overall, other than the drama, it was a very poor, low quality match and Ronnie should give his head a shake for losing it.

How about you go and try to achieve a tenth of what ronnie has, he has nothing to be ashamed about. Guess your definition of good snooker is one visit 8 minute frames :rolleyes: Thought it was a very entertaining final would have preferred an 18-17 finish but selby deserved to win the way he did.

qwabercd · 06-05-2014 12:44am

BNMC wrote: »

Please elaborate.

May have been covered already, but Ronnie's father owned a number of sex shops back in the day. When his father was convicted for murder, it was deemed to be a racially motivated attack, which lengthened the sentence. The family were of the opinion that the fact that he owned the sex shops and the council's dislike of the family that the racial element was part of the conviction.

Addle · 06-05-2014 12:44am

Mousewar wrote: »

The first session was decent with Ronnie playing freely and smoothly and breakbuilding well. The next two sessions were horrendous. Selby was incapable of winning a frame at one visit and he managed to drag Ronnie down to his level, resulting in a ragged, sloppy match with interminable frames and awful mistakes from both. Only at the very end, Selby finally produced some fine snooker.

By Selby's own admission, it wasn't pretty snooker.

He knew what he had to do to win, and he did it.
Delighted for him.

walshb · 06-05-2014 10:29am

At the start of frame 28 someone in the audience mouthed out something. The referee commented that there "was no need for them comments," or words similar. Anyone know what was said?

KERSPLAT! · 06-05-2014 10:34am

walshb wrote: »

At the start of frame 28 someone in the audience mouthed out something. The referee commented that there "was no need for them comments," or words similar. Anyone know what was said?

Was that not during one of Ronnies breaks? I think the ref was kinda saying, whatever about cheering when they come to the table but not after every shot.

walshb · 06-05-2014 10:35am

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Was that not during one of Ronnies breaks? I think the ref was kinda saying, whatever about cheering when they come to the table but not after every shot.

No. It was just before the start of frame 28. You could hear some mouthing, then Ronnie turns with a sort of shocked/annoyed look, then another mouthing, and then the referee made his comments. The commentators didn't pick up on it or comment on it. Maybe twitter or FB or some social media did?

cack_handed · 06-05-2014 10:43am

Yeah remember that...ronnie 15-12 down, about to break off....impossible to make out what was said, but ronnie looked well jcked off about it so didnt think it came from one of his own fans

cack_handed · 06-05-2014 10:53am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kIijEChSsQ

It's right at the start here, selby was breaking. Sounds like "chop his head off ronnie" is the offending phrase or something close to that

walshb · 06-05-2014 11:20am

The commentators, Thorne and Hendry commented on Marks' very good screw shots. Hendry said how he couldn't do them shots. Thorne agreed, saying that it was the one shot that Hendry didn't have in his arsenal. What was the story with Hendry's screw shots? Was he not that proficient?

cack_handed · 06-05-2014 11:30am

I actually thought Thorne came out with the comment and Hendry, modestly, agreed...I remember thinking that's a bit brash of you Willie...but i could be wrong.

Anyway, thinness of the cloth would be the major factor i'd guess. The ease with which players now play the type of shots selby played on that green is a bit ridiculous....only the ambitious or reckless tried it 20 years ago

walshb · 06-05-2014 11:34am

cack_handed wrote: »

I actually thought Thorne came out with the comment and Hendry, modestly, agreed...I remember thinking that's a bit brash of you Willie...but i could be wrong.

Anyway, thinness of the cloth would be the major factor i'd guess. The ease with which players now play the type of shots selby played on that green is a bit ridiculous....only the ambitious or reckless tried it 20 years ago

Hendry was the one who mentioned it first. Saying something like he could never do that shot, then Thorne agreed.

cack_handed · 06-05-2014 11:43am

walshb wrote: »

Hendry was the one who mentioned it first. Saying something like he could never do that shot, then Thorne agreed.

Ah, i stand corrected thanks. Think i just perked up when i heard thorne saying what he did!

But just shows how difficult it can be to compare eras in snooker, because the conditions have changed so much: thinner cloths, lighter balls, under-table heating etc. Even the lower-ranked players now can take on shots that Hendry wouldn't have touched in his prime

walshb · 06-05-2014 12:00pm

cack_handed wrote: »

Ah, i stand corrected thanks. Think i just perked up when i heard thorne saying what he did!

But just shows how difficult it can be to compare eras in snooker, because the conditions have changed so much: thinner cloths, lighter balls, under-table heating etc. Even the lower-ranked players now can take on shots that Hendry wouldn't have touched in his prime

Thanks,

But it seemed that both he and Thorne were implying that Hendry just wasn't proficient with that shot. I wasn't aware of this. I know some players are just better than others at certain kinds of shots. Jimmy White was one player who was very proficient with the deep screw shot.

cack_handed · 06-05-2014 12:07pm

Well that could be the case too.....maybe hendry found himself out of position so infrequently it just wasnt a shot he needed all that badly? Dunno really but i guarantee you jimmy white would not have played deep screw shots in his day, like selby or other top pros do now

cack_handed · 06-05-2014 12:08pm

*i mean jimmy wouldn't play them with such apparent effortlessness*

Myrddin · 06-05-2014 2:58pm

walshb wrote: »

Thanks,

But it seemed that both he and Thorne were implying that Hendry just wasn't proficient with that shot. I wasn't aware of this. I know some players are just better than others at certain kinds of shots. Jimmy White was one player who was very proficient with the deep screw shot.

If I recall correctly, it was a deep screw shot with a big distance between the bridging hand & the cue ball, & bridging hand being up on the wood/cushion, not on the cloth. Hendry said if he tried that he'd end up miscueing.

KERSPLAT! · 06-05-2014 2:58pm

From the Mirror so take from that what you will but they're reporting Ronnie and his son were in a car crash last night

TimeToShine · 06-05-2014 2:59pm

Yeah was reading that article earlier, apparently crashed at around 1AM on the motorway and "cheated death" according to the mirror. Both were unharmed.

celticfc · 06-05-2014 4:05pm

The BBC have a report on it here.

Although, thankfully nobody seems to be harmed.

cruasder777 · 06-05-2014 5:23pm

cack_handed wrote: »

Ah, i stand corrected thanks. Think i just perked up when i heard thorne saying what he did!

But just shows how difficult it can be to compare eras in snooker, because the conditions have changed so much: thinner cloths, lighter balls, under-table heating etc. Even the lower-ranked players now can take on shots that Hendry wouldn't have touched in his prime

Hendry only retired a few years ago, conditions are the same.

If he was in this era he would still be winning, his match game was A1.

Throne was half joking, in the last couple of years players are lifting the butt of the cue a fraction higher to get more power into screwing back, thats what they meant.

Hendry game was all about finesse rather then power, hence why he holds all the records, until Ronnie beats his record, he is still the best match player of all time.

cruasder777 · 06-05-2014 5:25pm

cack_handed wrote: »

Well that could be the case too.....maybe hendry found himself out of position so infrequently it just wasnt a shot he needed all that badly? Dunno really but i guarantee you jimmy white would not have played deep screw shots in his day, like selby or other top pros do now

Thats rubbish, I have seen Higgins, White, Davis etc screw back the length of the table after potting a ball the length of the table. All pros and good amateurs can do this.

Heres an amateur doing it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLFvi2w7tN4

cruasder777 · 06-05-2014 5:31pm

I think Ronnie will come back next year stronger then ever, a great early bet, now he has something to prove.

irishthump · 06-05-2014 5:57pm

cack_handed wrote: »

Well that could be the case too.....maybe hendry found himself out of position so infrequently it just wasnt a shot he needed all that badly? Dunno really but i guarantee you jimmy white would not have played deep screw shots in his day, like selby or other top pros do now

Are you serious? White had more cue power than probably any other player the game has ever seen, O'Sullivan included.

irishthump · 06-05-2014 6:01pm

walshb wrote: »

The commentators, Thorne and Hendry commented on Marks' very good screw shots. Hendry said how he couldn't do them shots. Thorne agreed, saying that it was the one shot that Hendry didn't have in his arsenal. What was the story with Hendry's screw shots? Was he not that proficient?

Hendry was never as proficient as other top players when it came to shots requiring extreme power, whether it was screw, topspin or forcing shots with stun. He never really hit the ball hard.
He's credited with pioneering the technique of splitting the pack of reds while potting the blue. Truth was he preferred that approach as it required less power than trying to split them from the black.

Irishgoatman · 06-05-2014 6:05pm

Mousewar wrote: »

Lot of people saying this, if only by virtue of the fact that it was long and grueling. Same thing happens in tennis whenever there's a six-hour marathon - commentators fall over each other to call it the best match ever despite the quality of play.

The first session was decent with Ronnie playing freely and smoothly and breakbuilding well. The next two sessions were horrendous. Selby was incapable of winning a frame at one visit and he managed to drag Ronnie down to his level, resulting in a ragged, sloppy match with interminable frames and awful mistakes from both. Only at the very end, Selby finally produced some fine snooker.
Overall, other than the drama, it was a very poor, low quality match and Ronnie should give his head a shake for losing it.

I enjoy both playing and watching snooker and I'm afraid that I find nothing in your comments that I can agree with.
I had no preference as to the winner, just wanted a good match which I believe we got. As for "..Selby..... dragging Ronnie (slight preference shown here perhaps?) down to his level" that to me is laughable.

Thank goodness that we are all entitled to our own opinions.

It's a good job that you weren't around in 1946 when the final was played over 2 weeks and the best of 145 frames. That was a long match!.

cruasder777 · 06-05-2014 7:30pm

Fair play to Willie Thorne, the 2nd greatest player never to be world champion, for supporting talented youngsters at his club in leicester with free table time etc including Selby.

Snake Plisken · 06-05-2014 8:33pm

Jeez the match must have really taken it out of Ronnie mentally if he crashed his car

anthonyos · 06-05-2014 8:45pm

I wonder was he partying or else trying to redeem himself to his son by speeding down the road

KERSPLAT! · 06-05-2014 8:47pm

Or maybe it was just an accident, like what happens all over the country everyday

anthonyos · 06-05-2014 8:50pm

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Or maybe it was just an accident, like what happens all over the country everyday

Maybe so he certainly has made a few of them the last few days

Snake Plisken · 06-05-2014 8:54pm

Still not a good idea to drive after such a long mentally draining match like that, he should have probably slept in Sheffield for the night before driving back today!

Addle · 06-05-2014 9:03pm

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Still not a good idea to drive after such a long mentally draining match like that, he should have probably slept in Sheffield for the night before driving back today!

Might he get into trouble for having his son in a car like that (a two seater)?

purplecow1977 · 06-05-2014 10:45pm

Was probably a mixture of bad weather conditions and replaying the match over and over again-what he could have done differently etc

Had to Google the car-flipping nice!

cruasder777 · 06-05-2014 11:20pm

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Was probably a mixture of bad weather conditions and replaying the match over and over again-what he could have done differently etc

Had to Google the car-flipping nice!

A very costly pink, nearly got him killed by the sounds of it.

loyatemu · 06-05-2014 11:50pm

Addle wrote: »

Might he get into trouble for having his son in a car like that (a two seater)?

doesn't sound like a good choice for transporting kids around in, but I don't think there's any law against it (small kids are supposed to be in the back, but only if there is a back seat)

StephenHendry · 07-05-2014 9:45am

irishthump wrote: »

Hendry was never as proficient as other top players when it came to shots requiring extreme power, whether it was screw, topspin or forcing shots with stun. He never really hit the ball hard.
He's credited with pioneering the technique of splitting the pack of reds while potting the blue. Truth was he preferred that approach as it required less power than trying to split them from the black.

actually steve davis first started attempting that shot in the 80s (splitting the pack via potting the blue) stephen actually perfected it imo

Mousewar · 07-05-2014 10:55am

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I enjoy both playing and watching snooker and I'm afraid that I find nothing in your comments that I can agree with.
I had no preference as to the winner, just wanted a good match which I believe we got. As for "..Selby..... dragging Ronnie (slight preference shown here perhaps?) down to his level" that to me is laughable.

Thank goodness that we are all entitled to our own opinions.

It's a good job that you weren't around in 1946 when the final was played over 2 weeks and the best of 145 frames. That was a long match!.

My point is merely that the quality of snooker was not particularly high except for Ronnie's opening flourish and Selby's final few frames. Everything in between was largely poor with lots of misses and inconsistent safety. As such, people calling it the greatest final in years are doing so purely because of the drama.
And why was the quality low? IMHO, it was because Selby frustrated Ronnie which resulted in the latter losing his rhythm. I'm not blaming Selby for doing that - he's entitled to do what he needs to do to win but it doesn't make for the kind of snooker I particularly like.

Irishgoatman · 07-05-2014 11:30am

Mousewar wrote: »

My point is merely that the quality of snooker was not particularly high except for Ronnie's opening flourish and Selby's final few frames. Everything in between was largely poor with lots of misses and inconsistent safety. As such, people calling it the greatest final in years are doing so purely because of the drama.
And why was the quality low? IMHO, it was because Selby frustrated Ronnie which resulted in the latter losing his rhythm. I'm not blaming Selby for doing that - he's entitled to do what he needs to do to win but it doesn't make for the kind of snooker I particularly like.

As an ex club player, (many MANY years ago), it's good to see that the players aren't super human. That, to me, makes the game more enjoyable.

Grand Prix motor racing became predictable and boring when Shumacher and then Vettel were winning race after race, now it's worth watching again.
Variety is the spice of life.

We will have to agree to disagree but keep watching the game.:)

cack_handed · 07-05-2014 12:52pm

irishthump wrote: »

Are you serious? White had more cue power than probably any other player the game has ever seen, O'Sullivan included.

cruasder777 wrote: »

Thats rubbish, I have seen Higgins, White, Davis etc screw back the length of the table after potting a ball the length of the table. All pros and good amateurs can do this.

Heres an amateur doing it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLFvi2w7tN4

No big deal, but i was never calling White's cue power into question, or Higgins' or Davis for that matter. All I was trying to say is that I regularly see players nowadays playing shots like that with almost effortless ease that i don't remember 20 years ago. That table conditions are faster now is simply a fact which, i would guess, helps players not so blessed with cue power execute shots not possible for them back in the day. Also, I guess they are less likely to miss pots by being able to hit more controlled deep-screw shots, without having to lash the cue through as hard as they can.

Remember Alex Higgins' famous blue in the '82 semi-final against White, the one he hammered into baulk pocket and screwed white back up to the top? People spoke about that shot as if it had come from another planet and claimed it was virtually impossible to execute. Well, I bet that a good handful of the top pros would manage it without much fuss now, only none of them would dare to try it with their World Championship lives on the line!!

Snooker World Championship 2014

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