Can the Defence Forces improve their already high standards.

Crann na Beatha · 09-03-2012 2:40am

This post has been deleted.

Poccington · 09-03-2012 5:38pm

I have to ask this... Where are people getting the idea from that troops within the DF are trained purely for a defensive role or trained and brought through Recruit training with a "Defensive soldier" mindset being put in place?

Just last week I took part in a live fire Platoon raid... Between Steyr's, GPMG's, 203's, SRAAW's and Snipers, there was **** all defensive about it.

Of all the people saying that Irish soldiers have a defensive mindset or are trained solely for defence, how many of you are actually serving members of the PDF and regularly taking part in exercises?

Poccington · 09-03-2012 5:40pm

On a Mod note, I'm just back from a rather long two weeks with work... I'll clean up some of this train wreck of a thread after I get a bit of honk.

Try actually discuss the original topic rather than turning it into the usual DF/BA nonsense. Not everything has to be a dick measuring contest or a chance to get a dig in. **** sake.

Morpheus · 09-03-2012 6:24pm

ICEBERG DEAD AHEAD!!! HARD TO STARBOARD, STARBOARD ENGINES FULL REVERSE....

Dragging us back on topic

Well of course the DF could improve, every army can improve - with training - but with improved training you need to fund it and to be honest, other than continuously training as we are I dont see a way for this to happen with the current reduced budget.

Only improvements to be made are with current processes being reanalysed and if found wanting, then revised and improved IMO

anyway gents, ladies, have a nice weekend, tty monday.

Achilles1599 · 09-03-2012 9:57pm

i always think that all the defence forces need are more funds, a shame theyll never get those funds

Poccington · 10-03-2012 3:52pm

Lads, I've had to delete over 40 off topic posts concerning the usual DF/BA bull**** that is starting to become a real problem in this forum.

I've tried to refrain from giving infractions because I don't particulalrly like them but after countless warnings on various topics about the DF/BA and Brit Bashing nonsense, the next person to try drag a thread off topic by bringing either up is getting a ban straight off the bat.

I'm sick of it and I'd imagine the vast majority of users are too. You're all adults, so let's try act like it and have some actual civilised discussions.

Poccington · 10-03-2012 4:02pm

xflyer wrote: »

It's difficult to get into the Defence Forces. Every vacancy is oversupplied with applicants to the point that the military can be very choosy about the people who are accepted. You only have to look at the thread about the guy who was rejected by the army on the basis of his childhood asthma who went on to be a Para and a war hero. The British forces are well supplied with highly regarded Irish servicemen whose only reason they are there is because for one reason or another were turned down by the Irish army.

Look at the difficulty in getting a Cadetship? Even enlisting as a private is competitive. You could probably fill all vacancies three times over with quality applicants.

So in theory only the best make it into the Defence Forces.

Which begs the question. Why aren't the Defence Forces one of the best armires in the world? Surely the potential is there?

We all know of course there are budget and equipment issues. But is there any reason the standard of training couldn't be increased to the point where any member of the army is expected to be somewhat equivalent of an Airborne or Marines or Ranger unit? Particularly for the front line units, like Infantry or Cavalry.

It would be easy enough to apply this standard to new recruits.

Any thoughts?

It comes down to doctrine really. The DF has no need to have 9 Para Bn's or a 75th Ranger Regiment with 9 Bn's in it.

1 Bn of the Para's is the SFSG, 75th Ranger Regiment is an SOF unit and the RM's have F Coy in the SFSG.

The Para's, Rangers and RM's have very specific taskings which fall outside of conventional infantry taskings.

Could the DF look to raise some sort of Commando unit within the DF to support the ARW? Perhaps.
Could the likes of Recce Platoon's, FOO's etc. look at improving their capabilities using some of the lessons the above units learned through experience? They should.
Is there a doctrinal need to turn all Line unit into something akin to the Unit's you mentioned above? No.

Personally, what I'd like to see the DF do is look at developing a true ethos and sense of Esprit de Corps both in training and in units.

OS119 · 12-03-2012 9:20am

Poccington wrote: »

...Personally, what I'd like to see the DF do is look at developing a true ethos and sense of Esprit de Corps both in training and in units.

i think, unfortunately, that this can only ever go so far while IA overseas deployments are undertaken by composite units rather than single, formed units.

its a military, doctrinal issue, but its also a political issue - formed Bn groups require everyone in that Bn group to be based together, which means far fewer barracks spread throughout the land, and it also means not leaving parts of the formed unit behind to cover all the miriad MACP tasks that the IA gets lumped with.

it is, you would think, a silly little thing - an internal housekeeping matter - but while TD's think that the Army exists to provide customers for their local town centres its not going to happen.

E2A: there are ways you can get around this - not perfect, but useful - such as large scale, extended training as a formed unit. unfortunately the IA doesn't have a training area big enough to throw a full Battlegroup in and leave it there for a month - the answer of course is simple, send them to BATUS, or Kenya, or the states...

Can the Defence Forces improve their already high standards.

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