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Why 30 km/h speed limits are important in the context of Jake's Legacy vigil

1246

Comments

  • #152
    expectationlost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Shared Space, Shared Surfaces and Home Zones from a Universal Design Approach for the Urban Environment in Ireland
    In the short term, if there is still a genuine absence of a reliable alternative to the traditional kerb as a delineator of comfort zones, any shared space design that proceeds should maintain a kerb to act in this capacity. When evidence exists that demonstrates the successful application of an alternative delineator such as a wide tactile strip or similar, then Shared Surfaces may be considered, in consultation with local stakeholders and end-users
    the NDA commission research http://www.academia.edu/6151629/Shared_Space_Shared_Surfaces_and_Home_Zones_from_a_Universal_Design_Approach_for_the_Urban_Environment_in_Ireland_Key_Findings_and_Recommendations summary and recommendations

    full report http://universaldesign.ie/Built-Environment/Shared-Space/Shared-Space-Full-Report.pdf

    but of course we not just talking about implementing kerbless shares spaces here, it not mandatory to do that, its unlikley to happen widely, we're also talking about the use of the sign for 30kph road areas.

    ps o'connell street has the metal knobs instead of kerb near the spire


  • #153
    expectationlost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    i don't really get the 5 black parallel lines on white / 80km sign either, is to be shown at the end of a 50kph section in order show its 80kph zone (but may also have a slow sign under it, because a combination sign saying 80kph / SLOW would be silly? http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2014/en/si/0488.html
    The purpose of these Regulations is to prescribe an alternative format for the regulatory speed limit sign RUS 041. The RUS 041 sign in this new design may be provided, instead of a RUS 041 sign in the other format, on local roads where the default speed limit of 80km/h applies under section 6 of the Road Traffic Act 2004 and at a location where a special speed limit under section 9 of the Act is applied to a local road in a built-up area under speed limit byelaws by a local authority.
    http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/conventn/Conv_road_signs_2006v_EN.pdf
    8. End of prohibition or restriction
    (a) The point at which all prohibitions notified by prohibitory signs for moving vehicles cease to apply shall be indicated by sign
    C, 17a "END OF ALL LOCAL PROHIBITIONS IMPOSED ON MOVING VEHICLES". This sign shall be circular and have a white or yellow ground; it shall have no border or only a black rim, and shall bear a diagonal band, sloping downward from right to left, which may be black or dark grey or consist of black or grey parallel lines.

    some saying this is like the old sign the old sign was solid black bar http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0181.html


  • #154
    expectationlost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    a little more info on speed limits http://www.speedlimits.ie


  • #155
    patrickbrophy18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18


    I am generally in favor of 30 KM/H speed limits in areas where children are at play. This includes (but is not limited to) cul de sacs, enclosed neighbourhoods and gated communities. In fact, gated communities should have a 15-20 KM/H speed limit. Places such as these often include amenities like green fields and/or playgrounds which are adjacent to the roads which serve them. With that comes the very high likelihood of kids crossing such. This should answer the question raised in the thread title of "Why".

    Having said that, speed limits on main arterial routes served by buses should still remain at 50 or 60 KM/H while dual carriageways remain at between 60 and 80 KM/H. It all depends on the activities on either side of such roads.


  • #156
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    Whilst this article is about cycling it also refers to the huge number of deaths of children in road accidents in the Netherland in the late 60's early 70's as being the catalyst for bringing about the increase in cycling numbers since.

    http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/may/05/amsterdam-bicycle-capital-world-transport-cycling-kindermoord


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  • #157
    MGWR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 611 ✭✭✭MGWR


    schemingbohemia wrote: »
    Whilst this article is about cycling it also refers to the huge number of deaths of children in road accidents in the Netherland(s) in the late 60s early 70s as being the catalyst for bringing about the increase in cycling numbers since.

    Manchester Guardian and its agenda
    False dilemma. The real cause of child deaths on the city streets is irresponsible parenting. A bicycle can kill a child running out in front of it recklessly as much as an automobile can kill a child recklessly running into the street.


  • #158
    mrbike
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭mrbike


    MGWR wrote: »
    A bicycle can kill a child running out in front of it recklessly as much as an automobile can kill a child recklessly running into the street.

    Really? If you think bicycles can kill children as easily automobiles (they don't) then why weren't the Dutch campaigning to ban these killer bicycles in the 70's?

    Irresponsible motorists kill children. Driving at inappropriate speeds through residential areas, where children live and play is irrepressible, dangerous and tragically, does kill children.


  • #159
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    MGWR wrote: »
    False dilemma. The real cause of child deaths on the city streets is irresponsible parenting.

    A bicycle can kill a child running out in front of it recklessly as much as an automobile can kill a child recklessly running into the street.


    Care to provide some authoritative evidence for your apparent claim that bicycles pose a safety risk as great as that posed by cars?

    For example, Irish stats showing the number of children killed by being struck by bikes in, say, the past 20 years?

    Or the number of children killed in collisions with bicycles in countries with a large number of cyclists, eg the Netherlands, or in cities such as Copenhagen. The numbers have got to be readily available, since the level of risk has been so well established, right?


  • #160
    Tragedy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,056 ✭✭✭Tragedy


    He didn't say that bicycles kill as many children as cars. Nice to see you're still posting nonsense as ever IWH, and even nicer that you still request studies given your proven history of refusing to read them when provided.


  • #161
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Tragedy wrote: »
    He didn't say that bicycles kill as many children as cars. Nice to see you're still posting nonsense as ever IWH, and even nicer that you still request studies given your proven history of refusing to read them when provided.


    Two quite specific claims were made:

    MGWR wrote: »
    The real cause of child deaths on the city streets is irresponsible parenting.


    A bicycle can kill a child running out in front of it recklessly as much as an automobile can kill a child recklessly running into the street.


    What measure would you suggest to compare the fatality risk of a child running out in front of a bicycle versus a child running out recklessly in front of an automobile?


    When we have that metric then we can check for the existence of evidence to support it.


    There is no such history. Where there is evidence to support a claim I provide it, and I generally try not to make claims that can't be supported by evidence.


    Oddly, just recently I included sources in a post (which was making the point that increasing motorisation makes for a fatter society), which led to an accusation that I was including external links in my posts!


    Evidence-based posting: damned if you don't, damned if you do.


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  • #162
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Tragedy wrote: »
    He didn't say that bicycles kill as many children as cars. Nice to see you're still posting nonsense as ever IWH, and even nicer that you still request studies given your proven history of refusing to read them when provided.

    Attacking posters rather than their post is not allowed.

    This is Commuting and Transport -- play by the house rules or get out.

    - moderator


  • #163
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    schemingbohemia wrote: »
    Whilst this article is about cycling it also refers to the huge number of deaths of children in road accidents in the Netherland in the late 60's early 70's as being the catalyst for bringing about the increase in cycling numbers since.

    http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/may/05/amsterdam-bicycle-capital-world-transport-cycling-kindermoord

    An interesting thing about that is that at the end of the 1990s Ireland had the highest child pedestrian death rate in Western Europe.

    However, in contrast to the Netherlands, the Irish media and civil society chose to look the other way. There was no Dutch-style collective self-examination or soul searching about the issue.

    Indeed it may be that many Irish remain blissfully ignorant of this aspect of recent Irish social history.

    It would be interesting to examine why the Irish state chose not intervene to protect children when other states clearly offered successful models.


  • #164
    patrickbrophy18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18


    Going by the last few posts, I don't think this is part of the movement aimed at inconveniencing motorists nor do I think it has anything to do with cyclists. The scope of the thread is answering the question as to why 30 KM/H speed limits may be needed in light of the recent passing of a child pedestrian who was knocked down in a public cul de sac. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victim, his family and friends.

    While the media don't mention the speed at which the car was going at the time, it highlights that the current speed limits in housing estates and cul de sacs is inappropriate given the purpose and people they serve and the amenities adjacent to them. So, I decided to cherry pick a sample area from Google Earth to better explain how I think speed limits should be distributed from one road to another:

    17314002319_31d6733759_z.jpg

    Blue: Primary Arterial Routes - where the existing speed limits would stay.
    Cyan: Secondary Arterial Routes - with moderate traffic calming such as speed ramps 50-100 meters apart to enforce the existing speed limit and make it easier for pedestrians to cross.
    Pink: Side Road - Lower the speed limit to 30 KM/H with pinch points (horizontal deflections), speed ramps 20 meters apart and junction tightening for re-enforcement. Static speed cameras could be placed between speed ramps when similar roads are developed in the future.
    Yellow: Cul De Sac - Lower the speed limit to 10/20 KM/H and enforce it with a one-lane two-way arrangement with passing loops every 30-40 meters as well as speed ramps. Again, static speed cameras could be placed between speed ramps when similar roads are developed in the future.


  • #165
    Tragedy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,056 ✭✭✭Tragedy


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Two quite specific claims were made:





    What measure would you suggest to compare the fatality risk of a child running out in front of a bicycle versus a child running out recklessly in front of an automobile?


    When we have that metric then we can check for the existence of evidence to support it.


    There is no such history. Where there is evidence to support a claim I provide it, and I generally try not to make claims that can't be supported by evidence.


    Oddly, just recently I included sources in a post (which was making the point that increasing motorisation makes for a fatter society), which led to an accusation that I was including external links in my posts!


    Evidence-based posting: damned if you don't, damned if you do.
    He still didn't make the claim that you are lying about his making. You've now misread two posts by two different people in your desperate attempt to scare people off by insisting that they post evidence that you can then safely ignore.

    When you post with evidence, we can see about you being damned for doing so. Until then, and continuously for the last 4 years, you're damned for not doing so.


  • #166
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Tragedy wrote: »
    He didn't say that bicycles kill as many children as cars. Nice to see you're still posting nonsense as ever IWH, and even nicer that you still request studies given your proven history of refusing to read them when provided.
    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    What measure would you suggest to compare the fatality risk of a child running out in front of a bicycle versus a child running out recklessly in front of an automobile?

    When we have that metric then we can check for the existence of evidence to support it.
    Tragedy wrote: »
    He still didn't make the claim that you are lying about his making. You've now misread two posts by two different people in your desperate attempt to scare people off by insisting that they post evidence that you can then safely ignore.

    When you post with evidence, we can see about you being damned for doing so. Until then, and continuously for the last 4 years, you're damned for not doing so.

    I guess we'll never know the answer...


  • #167
    expectationlost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Fingal Council backed a motion calling for speed limits in housing estates to be reduced to 20kph http://www.thejournal.ie/jake-brennan-speed-limits-2-2132063-May2015/

    do they really mean it ? How many councils have backed such a motion,(SDCC and its on list for sligo etc) they have the process set up at speedlimits.ie but what year do you reckon, any of the new 20kph limits will be implemented.

    video of meeting http://bit.ly/1Qg8KcB 19 in favour 4 against 2 abstentions

    meanwhile

    Reduced 30kph speed limits on the way
    Fingal County Council confirmed the areas which will have the reduced 30kph speed limit introduced at the recent Balbriggan-Swords Area meeting. (others areas also)
    http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/reduced-speed-limits-on-the-way-31251749.html
    list them for public display for statutory consultation


  • #168
    MGWR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 611 ✭✭✭MGWR


    expectationlost wrote: »
    Fingal Council backed a motion calling for speed limits in housing estates to be reduced to 20 kph. How many councils have backed such a motion (SDCC and its on list for sligo etc)—they have the process set up at speedlimits.ie but what year do you reckon any of the new 20 kph limits will be implemented?
    Government micro-managing madness strikes again. 12.4 miles per hour will make many an engine overheat and wear out many gearboxes.


  • #169
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    MGWR wrote: »
    Government micro-managing madness strikes again. 12.4 miles per hour will make many an engine overheat and wear out many gearboxes.

    Only if you don't know how to drive.

    You simply select the correct gear (2nd or 3rd) and let the car do its thing.

    Competent drivers have nothing to fear.

    If someone does not know how to drive correctly on a residential street then they would equally not be able to drive in congested city traffic either, or in a supermarket car park etc.


  • #170
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Driving at 30 km/h or less does seem to be a problem for some drivers, perhaps especially those who refer to the speed limit in mph so as to make the hardship seem even more extreme.

    There are even some who lament that their cruise control won't function at such dangerously low speeds.


  • #171
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Via the Jake's Legacy campaign (emphasis added by me):
    I acknowledge that changing drivers attitudes toward the use of excessive speed, while a worthwhile venture is also an extremely challenging and difficult task, but this will be made even more difficult if impractical speed limitations are forced on drivers.

    I feel that the widespread application of a 30km/h speed limits in housing estates will prove to be impractical unless substantial traffic calming works are carried out in tandem with the proposed implementation.

    Speed Limits should only be applied on roads where the limit appears to the driver to be appropriate to their surroundings and the cost of the works required to “force” drivers to physically drive at 30 km/hrs will be substantial and beyond the capabilities of Wexford County Council to fund.

    My experience with Speed Limits shows that simply reducing a Speed Limit does not imply that drivers will obey the new Speed Limit and if a speed limit is set unrealistically low, it will more than likely prove ineffective.

    On a personal note I have attempted to drive in housing estates at your proposed 20km/hr speed limit and found that the amount of concentration required to maintain my speed at or below this limit seriously detracted from my ability to see potential dangers on the road ahead.

    ~Chief Technician / Road Safety Officer, Wexford County Council


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  • #172
    expectationlost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    oh wexford passed a motion in March on jake's law

    €10m cost of safety http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/10m-cost-of-safety-31077076.html
    15.6 Councillor J. Mythen:
    “That this council recognising the need for safety for children at play in the housing
    estates in which they live, calls on the Minister for Transport to pass the Road Traffic
    Amendment Bill 2015 commonly known as Jake's Law, in memory of Jake Brennan, in
    order to introduce a new mandatory speed limit of 20km specifically for housing estates.
    The council further commits to writing to the Minister on this issue, as well as circulating
    this letter to all other local authorities in the state for their consideration”.

    The above motion was proposed by Cllr. J. Mythen seconded by Cllr. M. Farrell and
    agreed by the Council.

    Director for Road Transportation, E. Hore advised that a list of 76 estates compiled from
    correspondence with members of the public and representations from members of the
    Council had been presented to a previous meeting of the Council as having priority
    status for lower speed limits.
    http://www.wexford.ie/wex/Departments/CorporateServices/Downloads/WCCMinutes/2015/Thefile,25496,en.pdf


  • #173
    expectationlost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    still no inquest does it matter?


  • #174
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,882 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Via the Jake's Legacy campaign (emphasis added by me):
    Yes, when you set a stupid speed limit, drivers have to spend more time watching their speedometers and less time watching the road ... that's not exactly rocket science.


  • #175
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    20km/h is too slow for any kind of default.

    30km/h as an urban default with 40-60km/h on less constrained main routes where there's footpaths, cycle paths and safe crossings.


  • #176
    Aard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    We're talking about a 30kmph limit in housing esates, which are generally no more than 500m from a main road which will remain 50kmph. It's not rocket science -- go slow until you hit the main road :confused:


  • #177
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    patrickbrophy18 wrote: »
    Blue: Primary Arterial Routes - where the existing speed limits would stay.
    Cyan: Secondary Arterial Routes - with moderate traffic calming such as speed ramps 50-100 meters apart to enforce the existing speed limit and make it easier for pedestrians to cross.
    Pink: Side Road - Lower the speed limit to 30 KM/H with pinch points (horizontal deflections), speed ramps 20 meters apart and junction tightening for re-enforcement. Static speed cameras could be placed between speed ramps when similar roads are developed in the future.
    Yellow: Cul De Sac - Lower the speed limit to 10/20 KM/H and enforce it with a one-lane two-way arrangement with passing loops every 30-40 meters as well as speed ramps. Again, static speed cameras could be placed between speed ramps when similar roads are developed in the future.

    in_content.JPG?1304518976


  • #178
    MGWR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 611 ✭✭✭MGWR


    Aard wrote: »
    We're talking about a 30kmph limit in housing esates, which are generally no more than 500m from a main road which will remain 50kmph. It's not rocket science -- go slow until you hit the main road :confused:
    Absurdly low speed limit. Converting back into imperial units, that's a mere 18.6 miles per hour, no faster than a horse's trot, and not very friendly to cars' engines or gearboxes never mind fuel economy. Is it really so that Ireland's newer generations are not taught to stay on the footpath? because everyone I knew during my youth had no problems following the rules of the road while walking.

    And if main roads remain at 30 mph (50 km/h), there will be yet more visits to the auto repairman.

    Enough Luddism. And enough of demanding the government make things "eejit-proof".


  • #179
    MGWR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 611 ✭✭✭MGWR


    the groutch wrote: »
    in_content.JPG?1304518976
    Not a city I'd like to live in.


  • #180
    Aard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    MGWR wrote: »
    Absurdly low speed limit. Converting back into imperial units, that's a mere 18.6 miles per hour, no faster than a horse's trot, and not very friendly to cars' engines or gearboxes never mind fuel economy.
    Yep -- a low speed limit for about 500m. If that. Then back to 50 kmph.


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  • #181
    MGWR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 611 ✭✭✭MGWR


    Aard wrote: »
    Yep -- a low speed limit for about 500m. If that. Then back to 50 kmph.
    Why should that be acceptable, presuming half a kilometre if not more? Why is it even necessary?

    Consider further the additional auto emissions this will result in.


  • #182
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    MGWR wrote: »
    Consider further the additional auto emissions this will result in.

    Not according to research in this areas:

    Research in Germany has shown that the greater the speed of vehicles in built-up areas, the higher is the incidence of acceleration, deceleration, and braking, all of which increase air pollution. German research indicates that traffic calming reduces idle times by 15%, gear changing by 12%, brake use by 14%, and gasoline use by 12% (Newman and Kenworthy 1992, 39–40). This slower and calmer style of driving reduces emissions, as demonstrated by an evaluation in Buxtehude, Germany. Table E-1 shows the relative change in emissions and fuel use when the speed limit is cut from 50kmh (31mph) to 30kmh (19mph) for two different driving styles. Even aggressive driving under the slower speed limit produces lower emissions (but higher fuel use) than under the higher speed limit, although calm driving produces greater reductions for most emissions and net fuel savings (Newman and Kenworthy 1992, 39 –40).

    http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9676&page=369#p20003296ttt00035

    via http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/apr/19/ask-leo-20mph-speed-limits-pollution


  • #183
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    MGWR wrote: »
    Absurdly low speed limit. Converting back into imperial units, that's a mere 18.6 miles per hour, no faster than a horse's trot, and not very friendly to cars' engines or gearboxes never mind fuel economy. Is it really so that Ireland's newer generations are not taught to stay on the footpath? because everyone I knew during my youth had no problems following the rules of the road while walking.

    And if main roads remain at 30 mph (50 km/h), there will be yet more visits to the auto repairman.

    Enough Luddism. And enough of demanding the government make things "eejit-proof".

    It a bit ironic to expect kids to obey the rules, when adults won't.
    http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Speed/Speed_survey_2011.pdf
    Data from the 2006 Census reveals that, for journeys within the Dublin Canal Ring, cyclists reached an average speed of 12 km/h compared to just 15km/h for cars.
    For trips within the M50, the 2006 Census reveals average speed for cyclists of 14km/h compared to 18km/h for cars.
    In 2009 average bus speed across the city were recorded to be at 16.61km/h.

    That said it seems to be a pointless to set limits if they are not enforced.

    It also seems to be a unrealistic, to ignore human nature, and the lack of options to the car for many people.

    Likewise people need to stop driving like morons through suburbs/estates.


  • #184
    patrickbrophy18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18


    the groutch wrote: »
    in_content.JPG?1304518976

    I don't mean those types of speed ramps, I mean the kind of ones which are on Avondale Road and Oliver Plunkett Road. The yellow and black ones in that picture are absolutely horrible even at 5-10 KM/H. The kind found on Avondale Road and Oliver Plunkett Road coupled with horizontal deflections every 50 meters would make for good traffic calming measures in enclosed housing estates and cul de sacs.


  • #185
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    MGWR wrote: »
    Absurdly low speed limit. Converting back into imperial units, that's a mere 18.6 miles per hour

    ...

    Enough Luddism.

    Quite.

    MGWR wrote: »
    And enough of demanding the government make things "eejit-proof".

    The real eejits, and the most dangerous ones, are those drivers who can not or will not slow down. If there weren't so many of them, low speed limits and traffic calming would not be required. Self-explanatory really.


  • #186
    expectationlost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    ok here are the docs for pilot roads for 30kph speed limits for the balbriggan swords area item 78

    http://137.191.240.179/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=122&MID=4255#AI14500


    Proposed 30kph pilot speed limits main document
    Boroimhe Swords
    The Chantries Balrothery
    Ridgewood Swords
    Tayleurs Point Rush
    Dun Emer Lusk
    St Cronan’s Ave Swords

    looked at each of these on google maps they all look fairly self contained.
    Additional documents:
    Speed limit 30kph recommended balswo acm may 2015
    Speed limit 30kph balswo 2015 spc april submissions so where did they ask and not get? I'll have to read through again and see
    30kmhr sign they are going to call them slow zones and use that symbol :/ aarrrrgggghhhh
    DTTAS Guidlines 30km Extract


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  • #187
    Pie Eater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭Pie Eater


    MGWR wrote: »
    Converting back into imperial units, that's a mere 18.6 miles per hour, no faster than a horse's trot
    Incorrect.

    Can't post a link as a new user, but you can google it for yourself.


  • #188
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Pie Eater wrote: »
    Incorrect.

    Can't post a link as a new user, but you can google it for yourself.

    Huh 30 k is 18.6 miles ????

    Average horse trotting speed 17 mph

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_gait

    ??????


  • #189
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    And this affects child safety how?


  • #190
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    And this affects child safety how?

    trotting horses can be dangerous :pac:


  • #191
    expectationlost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    BoatMad wrote: »
    Huh 30 k is 18.6 miles ????

    Average horse trotting speed 17 mph

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_gait

    ??????

    its says Trot
    "averages about 8 miles per hour (13 km/h)" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_gait


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  • #192
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    expectationlost wrote: »
    its says Trot
    "averages about 8 miles per hour (13 km/h)" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_gait

    OK a " cantering " horse


  • #193
    Pie Eater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭Pie Eater


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    And this affects child safety how?
    The point is that a person who is arguing against new speed limits was wrong about a particular speed by approximately 130% and was quoting figures that a simple Google search would show as incorrect.


  • #194
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,883 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    it's a cluster-**** of it's-somebody-elses-fault. there should be a new sign "Lose the view, lose the speed" if the speed limit is 20 then people will do 20 if the speed limit is "travel at the speed you'd be willing to hit a child" people will probably choose they'd rather not hit a child at all. If the limit is 20 and someone kills a child while doing 20, then who's fault is it? just changing the speed limit isn't going to remove the issue at all.

    the amount of accidents would go down if the limit was upped to 120kmh, children would be more likely to stay away from the road and the drivers would be ****ting it paying 100% attention not texting or looking around like they would at 20kmph, or worse, staring at the damn speedo trying to keep the car going 20

    It would be much more effective to fix this through design. Why are the kids and cars relying on the same space? it's a recipe for disaster from the word go. Why are cars parking at the side of the road if that's where children are running out from and being hit because they're obstructed.

    Why just a speed limit and not a stopping distance limit or level of concentration limit? Speed limit means **** all for safety if you don't notice you've hit the child until you see them in the rear view mirror.

    Teach kids to never run out onto the road, teach drivers to pay 100% attention and do a speed that you can come to a complete stop from in the distance to the nearest obstruction where a child could run out from. teach everyone around the area not to park cars in a way that kids could run out from behind them straight onto the road. teach parents not to let their kids run across the road in front of a car. if the child is too young to understand this concept then what are you doing leaving them next to a road.


  • #195
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    frozenfrozen wrote: »
    it's a cluster-**** of it's-somebody-elses-fault. there should be a new sign "Lose the view, lose the speed" if the speed limit is 20 then people will do 20 if the speed limit is "travel at the speed you'd be willing to hit a child" people will probably choose they'd rather not hit a child at all. If the limit is 20 and someone kills a child while doing 20, then who's fault is it? just changing the speed limit isn't going to remove the issue at all.

    the amount of accidents would go down if the limit was upped to 120kmh, children would be more likely to stay away from the road and the drivers would be ****ting it paying 100% attention not texting or looking around like they would at 20kmph, or worse, staring at the damn speedo trying to keep the car going 20

    It would be much more effective to fix this through design. Why are the kids and cars relying on the same space? it's a recipe for disaster from the word go. Why are cars parking at the side of the road if that's where children are running out from and being hit because they're obstructed.

    Why just a speed limit and not a stopping distance limit or level of concentration limit? Speed limit means **** all for safety if you don't notice you've hit the child until you see them in the rear view mirror.

    Teach kids to never run out onto the road, teach drivers to pay 100% attention and do a speed that you can come to a complete stop from in the distance to the nearest obstruction where a child could run out from. teach everyone around the area not to park cars in a way that kids could run out from behind them straight onto the road. teach parents not to let their kids run across the road in front of a car. if the child is too young to understand this concept then what are you doing leaving them next to a road.

    So basically lock all kids up and build huge multi-story car parks?


  • #196
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,883 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    schemingbohemia wrote: »
    So basically lock all kids up and build huge multi-story car parks?

    no that's a terrible idea


  • #197
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    expectationlost wrote: »
    ok here are the docs for pilot roads for 30kph speed limits for the balbriggan swords area item 78

    ...

    Dun Emer Lusk

    looked at each of these on google maps they all look fairly self contained.
    Additional documents:
    There's 4 ways into this estate. 1 of them is in an 80 kmh zone, and another is in a 60 kmh zone, with no 50 speed limit signs. It might be better to fix this first...


  • #198
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    frozenfrozen wrote: »
    no that's a terrible idea

    well then please explain your idea a bit better because that's what I read from it.


  • #199
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,883 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    schemingbohemia wrote: »
    well then please explain your idea a bit better because that's what I read from it.

    give a proper reply highlighting & quoting the bits you don't understand, you tried to give a cheeky answer to be funny and it fell flat, I don't have much patience for that kind of stuff outside of after hours so if you'd like to change my opinion by having a debate then I'm all for it, but you'll need to put in a bit of effort.


  • #200
    expectationlost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    There's 4 ways into this estate. 1 of them is in an 80 kmh zone, and another is in a 60 kmh zone, with no 50 speed limit signs. It might be better to fix this first...

    i see 3, the entrance near glebe house has a creche right at the entrance and I saw what looked like non-official 10 mph sign and caution children signs there https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Dun+Emer+Ave,+Lusk,+Co.+Dublin,+Ireland/@53.5266153,-6.178663,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x486719cf1a99957b:0xa8dc0202a3200b0

    didn't see speed signs on any of the other entrances


  • #201
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Kilhedge lane. The speed limit sign is 60 at Newtowncorduff.

    There were consultations last year and I hilighted these anomolies, but nothing was done. There's also bit on the Skerries road where the limit increases to 80 in front of the lusk village estate and then there's a speedramp...
    https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.529259,-6.166169,3a,75y,6.87h,84.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skIC1M38sqTOSH8HEww9U0A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en


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